Review/Critique/Roast of HRB/RLM

[Jooky]

BUT... there is a nice counter argument that you may think of. for the counter argument assume you have a 20-25 year old daughter that has model looks. Would you recommend her to give out her phone number and mail to every stranger that asks for it ? Or would you rather have her give it after she has had the chance to at least find out a little bit about the people who ask?

If at some point I have an adult daughter, I would recommend that the give her phone number to whoever she damn pleases, irrespective of her looks.

You know this isn't an issue here, for several reasons.

1)These men and ladies are not allowed to exchange direct email address or messenger info. That's not the same as a phone number or mailing address.

2) An adult doesn't need someone else to decide at what point they feel comfortable they know someone well enough to exchange contact info.

3)A woman on HRB isn't allowed to give out her phone number even after she's gotten the chance to get the men on the other side a bit. The criteria for allowing contact exchange is based on amount of cash spent by the man, not level of comfort of the woman.

[Misha]

BUT... there is a nice counter argument that you may think of. for the counter argument assume you have a 20-25 year old daughter that has model looks. Would you reccomend her to give out her phone number and mail to every stranger that asks for it ?

I presume you mean email. To answer your question, I would expect my 20-25 year-old-daughter, regardless of her looks, to be mature enough to know to whom she should give her contact information. Email: I can't see any problem. Deleting messages takes less than a second. Phone? Home phone numbers are becoming increasingly obsolete. I would expect that she would give out a cell phone number if she met a man and was interested in talking to him in the future. Such is life

[TomT]

Damn you're good   So the safeguards are in place to protect the clients.   

Nope, that's what condoms are for, not that anyone will be using them.

[wicheese]

One thing looking at HRB, it had made me realize just how darn lucky I am to have found my significant other on singles.ru, it was real communication from the start and she glows in comparison to the touched up photos on the site as she is real (even when talking to her in after she just wakes up).  She also laughed when we were talking about the HRB as she said, "what do you expect from a site where women pose in such a way".  Anyways, I'm about to close down my review/experiment as I just wanted to see how long it takes to get to 1,000 unsolicited e-mails (all SPAM intro letters) and it's looking like it'll be less than a week.

So, related to the site, I will admit that I had used aweb, when I first got started in the FSUW search, and spent a few coins because I was a "greedy" man (not much different from most in the FSUW search) who thought he could get the smokinhotkova many years younger and it could be a normal marriage (after seeing a few geezers with their young FSUW locally and reading the propaganda on the sites, I will admit I drank the cool aide at that time).  It's too people like myself where HRB get's their suckers, but luckily most of us learn quickly. 

Anyways, as I wrote before, I would not recommend someone to get into the FSUW search as we all can find a nice lady locally who is appearance, life history, and age similar to us and if you still feel you need to go to the FSU then avoid the big sites like HRB and aweb.  But, if you had to choose between aweb and HRB, I would go with HRB as they don't charge for opening the ladies email which is a BIG plus in their favor.  You can also send out 10 free e-mails when you first sign-up which is again a big plus over aweb.  Some of the profiles did seem like normal ladies with normal fully clothed pictures.  Lastly, it does have a little entertainment value as I could not help but laugh when I read this line:

Do you want to do math? Let's add a bed, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply!

You need to give them props, at least they are creative...

 

[Admin]

To insure there is no misunderstanding - new member 'Percolator' has posted an identical post in three separate topics, two of which are older topics. This is a technique used by spammers or trolls whose purpose at RWD is inconsistent with the stated Terms of Service, but since this a 'hot button' issue at the moment, his ONE post here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11898.msg250532#msg250532, will remain. The identical post that was in THIS topic I am writing this in, was removed - as was the third identical post in another topic.

- Dan

[tfcrew]

Great... because I was CAS about the WFT anyway.

[Admin]

Since Jeff posted a link to his BBB case here and said complaint is a matter of public record, I think that the text should be posted here so that members can judge for themselves whether or not he made a good case.

Tom,

You may be correct with your assumption that 'percolator' is "Jeff" - but I see nothing that definitively connects the two here at RWD.

In any case, please post your comments over in the topic where percolator's post was made, and addressed by at least one other member already. In fact, that was the reason I left that one post intact at THAT topic, is that it had received a reply, and his two other identical posts in other topics had not received any replies.

In fact - in a few minutes (after some folks have had time to see THIS post) - I am going to split your post off and merge it over there.

If it is not yet obvious, I will state it explicitly. Since I saw upthread there were accusations of deletions and editing and such when the HRB topic appeared elsewhere - and since I am now finding it necessary to delete SPAM and perform some other administrative tasks that could appear, to those not paying attention, as if I am deleting or editing things inappropriately - I am announcing my intent in advance, and you all can see exactly what I am doing and confirm that I am doing exactly, and only, what I say that I am going to do.

OK - so giving this post a bit of time for settling-in (it will be minutes, not hours), and then I will split and merge. If subsequent posts are made, I will determine for which topic they are most relevant, and place them accordingly.

- Dan

[Manny]

Manny--
$9.00 for postage??  where are you shipping your book from, Estonia??  I think you might sell more copies of your book if you made it available as an instant internet electronic download.  you could probably sell it for $19.95, $14.95 or even $9.95; sell more copies than you are by shipping it, and make a higher profit for yourself.  a win win situation for those who want to purchase it.

Copies from our own sites are shipped from Estonia or the UK (depending where we are). Copies from US Amazon and other on-line retailers that serve the US, Canada and Australia are usually printed in the US in batches for Amazon. I am looking at the Kindle model, I just haven't got around to it.  

As for me I will wait until it reaches a 99 cent store--you can call me greedy, cheap or whatever, that is just all that I think it is worth since it is more or less a compilation of quotes from your website over at RUA.  in the meantime I can read these forums at any time I wish to and obtain as much information as I want to for free.

"greedy" 1.  excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing something, especially in quantity.
(agency girls who will take you on never ending expensive shopping sprees, in order to maintain a "relationship")

2.  wanting to eat or drink more than one can reasonably consume; gluttonous.
(agency girls who will take you to the most expensive restaurant in town, and eat and drink like there is no tomorrow, in order to get a kick-back for their agency and themselves)

Manny, is that what your wife is referring to when she calls potential clients "greedy"??

Hey, if you had read that book you are waiting to become available at a local dime store, you would know exactly what "greedy" meant when spoken by a Russian.  

>>>"since it is more or less a compilation of quotes from your website over at RUA"<<<

Don't believe every rumour you hear from certain disreputable corners of the industry. The content is not really geared for those on a $1 budget, so it would be of limited use to you I expect.

[Jooky]

And there's the attempted diversions as predicted.

This thread was initiated because of this:

Perhaps it means that HRB/RLM are not a "scam agency" as some quarters of the industry find it convenient to paint them? Perhaps the lack of evidence, and the anti-scam systems in place as discovered by those who visited, were not newsworthy enough to keep repeating. After all, who wants to go around shouting "ABC agency is not so bad after all"? Far easier to repeat a few rumours from some blokes who thought they were "scammed" video chatting with a woman thirty years their junior, which is what happens with many so called "scam" agencies.

The fact is if HRB has such a good anti-scam system in place, why would a member received 1000 'spam' emails in the course of week. Even the HRB defenders have admitted that these are insincere spam.

My question to the original post was never answered.

Manny claims that these are not 'scam' agencies.

Then he describes the typical situation that leads a man to think he's being scammed - that is a bloke (we can call him a 'knuckle shuffler') who is chatting with a lady thirty years younger (and by the evidence presented, is scantily clad and initiates the chat with light sexual conversation).

So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:

When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?

The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.

Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?

If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?

If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?

[TomT]

So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:

No comment. I have better things to do than to answer loaded questions.

[Admin]

And there's the attempted diversions as predicted.

This thread was initiated because of this:

The fact is if HRB has such a good anti-scam system in place, why would a member received 1000 'spam' emails in the course of week. Even the HRB defenders have admitted that these are insincere spam.

My question to the original post was never answered.

Manny claims that these are not 'scam' agencies.

Then he describes the typical situation that leads a man to think he's being scammed - that is a bloke (we can call him a 'knuckle shuffler') who is chatting with a lady thirty years younger (and by the evidence presented, is scantily clad and initiates the chat with light sexual conversation).

So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:

When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?

The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.

Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?

If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?

If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?

>>And there's the attempted diversions as predicted.<<

Jooky - that is simply an unfair allegation. My recent actions have been directed to keeping this topic clear of "diversions" - and for Manny to respond to questions posed is hardly the nefarious act of "diversion" you are suggesting.

For that matter, your hatchet job on the RWD 10 Commandments was equally 'below the belt' as your obvious implication was that RWD was abandoning its position in support of those principles - which is just flatly NOT TRUE.

If you continue to feel the need to perpetuate this topic and your campaign (and it is clear you *do* feel that need) please take care to NOT impugn or malign others not directly associated with your campaign.

- Dan

[Manny]

Manny claims that these are not 'scam' agencies.

Did he? You are familiar with the word "perhaps" in your quote yes? A quote you removed from context.

Keep twisting the words Jooky.

So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:

When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?

Probably not. Unless there is a chance he is very rich.

The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.

Does the website guarantee the motivations of all its female members? I don't expect it does.

Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?

Well there are a few on this board that are or were in such a marriage. For some women, if the guy is rich enough, yes.

If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?

As above.

If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?

I would call the examples you cite, a handful of women using the services of a website, that merely facilitates communication, talking to some men who are old enough to know better.

That doesn't address the serious men, seeking age appropriate women, who mostly remain clothed. Just more tabloid sensationalism you are pedalling Jooky.

[Jooky]

Manny, would you define 1000 out of 14000 women listed a 'handful'? That's the number of women that initiated contact with 1 guy in a week.

If an agency lists 14000 women, how many do you think are active in a week? Half? Less? More? A quick search on Elena's shows about 60%. Would you think that's a fair estimate? Would you consider 1000 out of 8400 'a handful'?

What percent of those would you reasonable think are sincere? What percent insincere?

Would you call 15 out of 30 online with web cams or 40 out of 180 online a 'handful'? Those were the numbers contacting one man at one given moment.

In your experience, what percent of the overall women and what percent of the online women should be reasonably, sincerely targetting a single man?

Ok Manny, tell us directly, without the perhaps: Do you claim that HRB is not a scam agency?

Does the website guarantee the motivations of all its female members? I don't expect it does.

All? They assure their members that the behaviour exposed on this thread is normal for sincere ladies. You've agreed that it's 'probably not', which is as weak as it gets from someone that people look to for advice.

[TomT]

Manny,

At some point, you should do the same cost/benefit analysis that I did.

[Jooky]

that is simply an unfair allegation.

It wasn't an allegation towards you. You did clear the diversion. Tom attempted to bring it back.

For that matter, your hatchet job on the RWD 10 Commandments was equally 'below the belt' as your obvious implication was that RWD was abandoning its position in support of those principles

Incorrect. My implication was that those that now recommend HRB and the 'devils advocates' are giving advice that abandon those principles.

[Jooky]

At some point, you should do the same cost/benefit analysis that I did.

Yup you probably both should.

What are you trying to gain by recommending a method that you know presents more obstacles at a higher cost than many other methods of finding sincere women in Russia and Ukraine?

[Manny]

Ok Manny, tell us directly, without the perhaps: Do you claim that HRB is not a scam agency?

Technically, how could they be? They are facilitators of communication. The agencies in Ukraine are those whom recruit the women. They are independent from what I gather.

If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you? Would Skype be a "scam" site too? Would you blame the airline that took you to Ukraine to meet a pro dater? Would you blame AT&T because they facilitated the call or AOL because they allowed you to surf the site? If not, why blame the site that allowed you to see a video stream of the woman?

The site is a tool. One of many tools people use to facilitate communication. People draw their own conclusions, and proceed according to their own, adult, decisions. If people make bad decisions, it is because they are not educated in the subject matter.

If 60 year old Joe Schmo from Idaho decides to throw some cash at a communication site to see a scantily clad Sexy Olga on video steam, why not? Would you seek to deprive him of that pleasure? I wouldn't. Let him make his own decisions. Similarly, a sensible wife-seeker, may decide the instant scantily clad web cam girls are not what he seeks in a wife, and look to one of the other 13000 women there. Where is the scam there?

[wicheese]

Manny, would you define 1000 out of 14000 women listed a 'handful'? That's the number of women that initiated contact with 1 guy in a week.

I should clarify that those would be 1,000 email messages as I have seen some women post multiple times (usually seperated by a few seconds).  Still, the total of unique women contacting me is very impressive and having had profiles on EM, singles.ru, or match.com in the past, I have never received so much attention in such a short period of time.  

Mostly, I would judge HRB to be entertainment with the potential to find someone who might be married minded, but there are still a lot easier ways of doing that IMO.

[acrzybear]

Nope, that's what condoms are for, not that anyone will be using them.

Unless the pimp agency gets a cut.  

[Jooky]

Manny, I agree. HRB is not even the agency. When people complain about HRB, they are actually talking about HRB affiliates. These are the real agencies in question.

That's why it doesn't matter what's going on in HRB's Florida offices. The goal here is to steer guys in the right direction.

Skype, AT&T and airlines aren't making any assurances either way about who you come into contact using their services. HRB does.

Yes, let men make their own decisions, but let's inform them with honest information when they come here looking for it.

[Manny]

Yes, let men make their own decisions, but let's inform them with honest information when they come here looking for it.

Point them at Russia then. There is much less "scam" type activity coming out of there in recent years. In parts of Ukraine, it appears to be an industry.

When people complain about HRB, they are actually talking about HRB affiliates. These are the real agencies in question.

Exactly. And CEO has explained how many of those he has fired over the years. When dealing with a poor and corrupt country, one where corruption and cheating is endemic, finding a few dishonest local agencies is not altogether surprising is it? Call it the dirty barrel if you like. Delve in the crap to seek a diamond. It is the nature of the endeavour.

[wicheese]

If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you? Would Skype be a "scam" site too? Would you blame the airline that took you to Ukraine to meet a pro dater? Would you blame AT&T because they facilitated the call or AOL because they allowed you to surf the site? If not, why blame the site that allowed you to see a video stream of the woman?

Apples and oranges comparisons as Skype & ATT are just selling the mode of communication and the airline is selling a seat, with no implied context about meeting a marriage minded lady.  In this regards, HRB can't be looked at as just a facilitator of communication, even if that's what their part of the business is as it's this total package that they must be judged on (communication & meeting a serious FSUW) and the outcome of this judgement is what should be used to recommend them or in my case NOT to do so.  

[Kuna]

Technically, how could they be? They are facilitators of communication. The agencies in Ukraine are those whom recruit the women. They are independent from what I gather.

If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you? Would Skype be a "scam" site too? Would you blame the airline that took you to Ukraine to meet a pro dater? Would you blame AT&T because they facilitated the call or AOL because they allowed you to surf the site? If not, why blame the site that allowed you to see a video stream of the woman?

What a load of crock.  Come on... do you really believe this BS or are you just stiring up a thread because you have nothing  better to do?

If Skype were called Skype Brides, facilitated a vast amount of activity which was pure scam and continued this way for whatever reason... itwould be a scam site.

You're free to go jerk your own chain but your posts and attitude in here puts men at risk, and I didn't think that was the purpose of RWD.

[Jooky]

Point them at Russia then.

Most guys I'd point home. If they insist on an FSU bride seeking adventure I do point them to Russia. If they insist on meeting women online I point them away from sites that will mislead them and toward sites where it's easier to meet real women. It's not that hard!

Delve in the crap to seek a diamond. It is the nature of the endeavour.

That's where I disagree. I never found myself delving through the crap to find the diamonds in Russia. There are plenty of decent, sincere women and they are easy to find.

Times have changed. There are easier ways to meet Russian women these days than agencies. We don't need to direct men to the dirty barrel. They can avoid the crap altogether.

Quit misleading people.

[Manny]

That's where I disagree. I never found myself delving through the crap to find the diamonds in Russia. There are plenty of decent, sincere women and they are easy to find.

You haven't managed to marry one in the last half decade though; so it can't be that easy.

Kuna, what's with the big letters dude?