Review/Critique/Roast of HRB/RLM

[BC]

Hey y'all...

We fight over the best way, then turn around and fight over the worst..

Isn't there a middle ground somewhere that will make both camps happy?

It's getting to the point that my theory of not looking for a wife working just as well as any 'method', is being proven quite valid, maybe even better.

Seriously, keep bringing up a problem and you'll get turned away (or turned off as I am), but bring a possible solution and folks will be happy to talk about it.

Is there anything constructive in this topic?

[Jooky]

You haven't managed to marry one in the last half decade though; so it can't be that easy.

I expected that.  

If I was on a bride hunt you might have a point. But, you well know that I'm not.

It's easy to find decent, sincere, good women that will make good wives for someone. Whether or not I marry them is irrelevant.

[TomT]

Unless the pimp agency gets a cut.  

Crazy acrzybear,

It isn't absolutely clear whether the agency is the pimp, I am the pimp or both. No matter how you slice it, though, no one is going to get rich on condom sales to men in this endeavor. Pharmaceuticals might be a different story...

[Jooky]

Constructive:

1) Stick with local women. There's not that much of a difference.

2) The best way to improve your options is to improve yourself.

3) If you insist you want to meet FSU women, use methods and sites that you put you in direct contact with the ladies you're looking to meet and where you're on an equal level as the ladies.

Good enough?

[Misha]

Technically, how could they be? They are facilitators of communication.

If you spoke to a pro dater or a scammer on Skype, would you blame Skype because they enabled you?

If I understood correctly, a man can be "chatting" and seeing a woman on his video camera. However, HRB states that they cannot guarantee that he is chatting with the woman on screen. How exactly is that "facilitating" communication? With Skype, what you see is what you get. The one you are seeing on the screen is the voice you are seeing and is the same account as the one who may be typing. Clearly, if my understanding is correct, the business model in place is facilitating fantasy not communication: all you need is one very pretty woman in the camera typing away, an potentially countless men will think or hope she is chatting with them 

[TomT]

If I understood correctly, a man can be "chatting" and seeing a woman on his video camera. However, HRB states that they cannot guarantee that he is chatting with the woman on screen.

This doesn't sound right at all because it defeats the purpose of the video streaming: showing the client that he is chatting with a real girl. Where did this alleged disclaimer appear?

[Misha]

This doesn't sound right at all because it defeats the purpose of the video streaming: showing the client that he is chatting with a real girl. Where did this alleged disclaimer appear?

This was covered by Jooky 

That's what it is. If you like, you can just pay to watch as the lady chats with the other men on the line. 

They're covered though. It never says 'chat with her live'. It says 'see her live'.
They don't provide video chat. They provide a text chat / live video streaming combination.

[Shadow]

I will reply your questions with counter questions.

So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:

When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?

You have declared such a girl is free to contact any man she sees fit, what do you personally have against her doing so ?

Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?

Is it normal for a below average man to look for a marriage partner 30 years younger, do you think he is doing so fully expecting psiritual love  ?

If this is not normal behaviour, what is the motivation?

Is it not normal behaviour for a young girl to look for local men instead of foreigners ? If she does, what is the motivation ?

If this is not sincere behaviour, how is it not a scam? What would you call it?

Do you think chatting up a girl without the intention of a serious relationship is a scam ? What would you call it ?

[wicheese]

Constructive:

1) Stick with local women. There's not that much of a difference.

2) The best way to improve your options is to improve yourself.

3) If you insist you want to meet FSU women, use methods and sites that you put you in direct contact with the ladies you're looking to meet and where you're on an equal level as the ladies.

Good enough?

+1

Staying at home is a good option and improving yourself will dramatically improve what you can attract (and we're not just talking about appearance).

[tim 360]

That's what it is. If you like, you can just pay to watch as the lady chats with the other men on the line.  

Cost is 2 credits / minute. That's .80 to $1.20 depending on how much you buy up front.

They're covered though. It never says 'chat with her live'. It says 'see her live'.
They don't provide video chat. They provide a text chat / live video streaming combination.

I pay around 40 bucks / month for my unlimited bandwidth in Novosibirsk. I have the highest speed package. Cheaper unlimited packages are available all over Russia.

Gotta love it. :evil: Ka....ching.

[TomT]

This was covered by Jooky 

That explains everything...

[Jooky]

You have declared such a girl is free to contact any man she sees fit, what do you personally have against her doing so ?

I stated a girl should be free to give out contact info to whomever she chooses.

On a site that proclaims that she's been interviewed to ensure her sincerity, and men are paying to talk to her based on this assumption, she should make only sincere contact.

Is it normal for a below average man to look for a marriage partner 30 years younger, do you think he is doing so fully expecting spiritual love  ?

It's definitely more normal than the opposite!

However, men making this type of first contact is not the issue here. The issue is the ladies intitating contact.

Is it not normal behaviour for a young girl to look for local men instead of foreigners ? If she does, what is the motivation?

Her motivation can range from not being able to find the right man and willing to seek anywhere to the desire to use a mule as an escape. I can think of many motivations good and bad.

I can't think of any plausible motivation for what's happening on HRB other than profit. Can you? (key word 'plausible' - a 20 year old beauty being so bored at 3AM on a Tuesday that she has nothing to do but seek out 60 year old losers to chat with is not plausible).

Do you think chatting up a girl without the intention of a serious relationship is a scam ? What would you call it ?

If I'm on a site where someone has paid to have me interviewed and validated to ensure that my intentions are to seek a serious relationship I call it deception. If I profit from it, I call it a scam.

Are you now trying to convince me that HRB is a scam? If so, you're doing a good job.

Now can you answer my questions?

[GQBlues]

So my questions to Manny, Tom and others are:

When a hot young girl is contacting a below average man, 30 years older than her, do you think she is doing so with sincere intentions of considering that man as a potential marriage partner?

The website assures us that the women have serious intentions.

Is it normal for a beautiful young Russian or Ukrainian girl to seek a serious relationship with below average men, 30 years her senior?

The other <----

Jooky-

Let me offer some perspectives here...

I attached HRB's website so we can use it for the exercise.

1. What do you honestly think that an average 60 year old man will be deliberating upon once he stumbles to the same page? Let's get real here. Do you believe the vast majority of them are seeing a 60 year old woman through all the ladies shown on the site before deciding to sign up? What do you think they are expecting to 'see' once they sign up?

2. How do you know with great certainty that an average 60 year old men signing up on HRB actually need to be 'saved' and 'helped'? From what? Maybe they're there for that very reason (chat with a pretty young woman who loves jiggling her huge breasts)?

3. Do you honestly believe the vast majority of 60+ year old man in the MOB go to FSU to court and marry women in their late 50s and 60s?

4. Even Jack, and Ed's video, aren't exactly showcasing babushkas in their attempt to market their services. I've never seen it, have you? Also, I never once saw a disclaimer in their offering that any of these ladies are off limit to men over 50, yet most of what they show are women in their 20s...when men in their late 50s and 60s sees Jack's photos, and looked at Ed's video that they are thinking to themselves..'Man, I'll sign on on his service so maybe he can introduce me to a 60 year old Russian woman'. I doubt that was the intent of the offering, and seriously doubt that would be what a 60 year old man would be hoping for...

Heck, if I'm not mistaken, Ed married someone in her early 20s and Jack married someone who also was pretty young. How young, or how much younger than he, I don't know.

5. Lastly, who the heck is this 60 year old you're so concerned about?

60 year old men have as much right to get down and dirty just like the rest of us...who are you (we) to tell them to restrict their saggy fantasies to bingo games and shuffleboards.

[BillyB]

Manny, I agree. HRB is not even the agency. When people complain about HRB, they are actually talking about HRB affiliates. These are the real agencies in question.

Exactly. And CEO has explained how many of those he has fired over the years. When dealing with a poor and corrupt country, one where corruption and cheating is endemic, finding a few dishonest local agencies is not altogether surprising is it? Call it the dirty barrel if you like. Delve in the crap to seek a diamond. It is the nature of the endeavour.

 

If wrong had been done to an HRB/RLM customer, then HRB/RLM is solely to blame. Most of their customers don't know they are dealing with feeder agencies.

If you have a general contractor remodel your home, that company may hire sub contractors to do the electrical, plumbing, painting, etc... You will have a contract with the general contractor, not his subs. You will pay the general contractor and he will in turn pay the subs. If the new electric wiring catches fire and causes $10,000, you go after the general contractor to fix it. If the owner told you it isn't his responsibility and to go after the electrical contractor, he is wrong and you really begin to understand the type of business man he is.

Why are people saying HRB/RLM is not responsible to their customers? If we know unethical things happen in the FSU and in feeder agencies, it is not supposed to be brought onto HRB/RLM customers. HRB/RLM customers pay for a service. They are not paying for unethical practices no matter how much spin is put on the fact that HRB/RLM customers are losers and perverts. Now if HRB/RLM advertised men can talk to young ladies and play out their fantasies, then we wouldn't be here arguing.

[Jumper]

GQ-
I completeluy agree with you.
I don't believe sincere men are the target demographic of HRB or any other website with this business model.
I believe they make very decent profits off this very fact.I feel it's intentional and the most profitable.
And please dont think its all young hotties, those places market far better than that, and broader range,. you certainly can chat with a nice 35 Yo at 3am for as long as you pay as well..even though she is a hairstylist that workls a day shift.

I really did NOT think we were here to come up with the legal definition scam.

I did think  we were here to share real experience, to better inform sincere men,
of the pitfalls, as well as best methods to increase the already poor odds.
 
yes they should see it easily themselves, just like they should see MOST of the common sense advice given here.


but since when did some business get a free pass on a technicality here?
i don't buy it.

In addition i challenge some of the  naysayers to sign up at such sites,get some real experience,  or admit that they actually don't have any REAL experience with the topic, and a clue to it's  scope or depth.

I do, and I know the reality.I do feel guys coming here ,of all places, should be informed
that NOT all places are the same,
that YES you certainly can be killed in a plane crash walking to work
(it IS possible! but what a silly argument some are making)
and you DO have a far better chance of being in a plane crash if you travel in a light plane frequently in bad weather!

The "why" or "who" of the situation really doesn't matter.

The playing it off that the US corp who takes in the $$ , is so naive that they dont know and so its "ok"
is rather amusing  though.

[Jooky]

GQ,

The example of the 60 year old man is to show how these 'ladies' will contact anyone. If I used a 40 year old with more going for him as an example, the 'defenders' would make claims that sure 'it's possible' that all all these ladies contact him.

The real guys that get suckered are guys like Sculpto, Gothman and others I know who weren't chasing something that far out of their league.

Actually Billy's right. HRB should be held responsible, but we're not here to put them on trial.

I think we're here to do as AJ says.

I do feel guys coming here of all places, should be informed that NOT all places are the same.

Let the 60 year olds get down and dirty. If these guys are looking for porn chat, this isn't the venue to be making recommendations, and there are plenty of dedicated porn cam sites out there that they can use instead of HRB.

If HRB is primarily a fantasy site for creepy old men, that's ok with me, but then it shouldn't be listed as a recommended bridal site for guys with serious intentions. (and that's what sparked this debate).

[Shadow]

I stated a girl should be free to give out contact info to whomever she chooses.

On a site that proclaims that she's been interviewed to ensure her sincerity, and men are paying to talk to her based on this assumption, she should make only sincere contact.

And until you have established proof of the contrary, you only have a suspicion the contact might not be sincere. Yes, the suspicion does seem valid, but still it is nothing more as a suspicion.

It's definitely more normal than the opposite!

However, men making this type of first contact is not the issue here. The issue is the ladies intitating contact.

You did not seem to understand my question. I was not asking about the man initiating contact, but the likelyhood of the man actually wishing to respond to the initiated contact given his age.

Her motivation can range from not being able to find the right man and willing to seek anywhere to the desire to use a mule as an escape. I can think of many motivations good and bad.

I can't think of any plausible motivation for what's happening on HRB other than profit. Can you? (key word 'plausible' - a 20 year old beauty being so bored at 3AM on a Tuesday that she has nothing to do but seek out 60 year old losers to chat with is not plausible).

I can think of many motivations... the girl is waiting for someone she knows to come online and having fun while doing so... the fact that an old mule is more likely to kick the bucket soon... translators playing a role in the contact rather than the girl...

If I'm on a site where someone has paid to have me interviewed and validated to ensure that my intentions are to seek a serious relationship I call it deception. If I profit from it, I call it a scam.

Where do you have proof that the women profit from it ?
Secondly, if the man is intending to seek a serious relationship, and considers his true potential and options, why would he even react to someone that he could decide to be obviously not serious. Would that not be a similar deception from the side of the man ?

[Jooky]

And until you have established proof of the contrary, you only have a suspicion the contact might not be sincere.

Where do you have proof that the women profit from it ?

This isn't a court case. My 'suspicions' are well founded. Well enough to advise men to stay clear of this bullshit. If you want to steer men to use these type of sites, be my guest.

Enough women have stated that they profit from this or have seen other ladies get paid. Read Raven's posts. Read Sculpto's experiences. Even the guy on RUA who had a good experience with HRB said that ladies at the local agency he visited were suckering guys to send them gifts.

Enough already.

[Shadow]

This isn't a court case. My 'suspicions' are well founded. Well enough to advise men to stay clear of this bull*snip*. If you want to steer men to use these type of sites, be my guest.

Enough women have stated that they profit from this or have seen other ladies get paid. Read Raven's posts. Read Sculpto's experiences. Even the guy on RUA who had a good experience with HRB said that ladies at the local agency he visited were suckering guys to send them gifts.

Enough already.

This is not a court case, but that does not mean you should not be able to back up statements. The time your profile was published at Antidate you did care about what is real and what is jumping to conclusions based on half truths. I suggest you create similar standards for yourself and for others.

 I would suggest that most of those who have reached here and read the main things to do and not to do will be able to make their own educated decision.
As for those who can not read it, no need to warn them. Standing is the desert with a sign that you need to bring water with you has about the same effect.

[Jooky]

I've backed up plenty.

First of all I said 'if' these girls profit, it's a scam. If not, it's deception. Even the main proponents of HRB have agreed that the intros are fake spam. If you don't think so, then you're the last person anyone should take serious advice from here.

10 minutes on the site and it's clear what it's all about. Read Raven's and other experiences if you want to hear about women getting paid. If you find the statements of CEO and others who have never even used the site or met ladies that use these agencies to be more credible, your choice.

Have you met ladies that used HRB affiliates? I have. Enough said.

There is at least one flat out lie on the HRB site, and that's about the cost of internet in Russia. Now CEO can go cover his ass by removing that. You're welcome.

Why bring up Antidate? Kvinna blacklisted me and made up stories because I shared a photo of her ugly mug with some people. You bring that up only to goad me. Being blacklisted there didn't bug me. What bugged me is Kvinna, who will outright slander people as she pleases was on an 'ethics' committee. What a joke.

Yes, people can make their own decision based on advice given here. When their decision is based on recommendations of sites where they will likely be deceived and ripped off, they can thank you for it.

[GQBlues]

GQ,

The example of the 60 year old man is to show how these 'ladies' will contact anyone. If I used a 40 year old with more going for him as an example, the 'defenders' would make claims that sure 'it's possible' that all all these ladies contact him.

The real guys that get suckered are guys like Sculpto, Gothman and others I know who weren't chasing something that far out of their league.

Scultpo & Gothman? Hhmmm I don't think that's a good Alamo to stand on...

Is this the same Sculpto that had that experience with the Armenian girl in Thailand that everyone tried to 'warn' him against by repeatedly telling him he's in for some serious hurt? That Sculpto? What happened to that story again?

And Gothman, yeah cool dude. I actually liked him. But for good reason or otherwise if there was someone who wasn't interested in/looking for help, it was this guy, man. I mean, when it was apparent he was going to do what he wanted to do for himself, the peanut gallery started to attack his state. Then when he started firing back, it eventually led to him getting banned. We definietly helped that guy, didn't we?

You believe either, or both, listens to any advice?

As for the '60' year old man, it's age irrelevant...

But let's get back to HRB...

Do you deny marriages were consumated by use of HRB? I can't, can you? Do you know with certainty ALL men who signs into HRB really didn't have the specific intention of watching beautiful 20 year old women jiggling their breasts? If you say you do, I would beg to differ because from my vantage point it appears to me that the majority of men seem to be getting what they came and paid for. Why? I always believe the numbers of supply have a very direct correlation to the number of demand.

Here's another angle to this...

What appears to me that the underlying beef you have with HRB is that the heavy number of working girls trying to separate men from their money in exchange for a bit of fantasy makes them a scam agency because they carry the word 'bride'? You seem to be saying that is a complete misrepresentation of their business. Fair enough...

Should HRB then simply clearly distinguish what their site really is? Hot Russian Jiggling Breasts instead of Hot Russian Brides? What impact will that now have for both the women and men who are in it for marriage?

Here's an often used ratio...95% of the men are keyboard Romeos and 5% are sincere searchers/travellers...if these are acceptable to the debate and the same numbers can apply to HRB's clientele (unless you don't believe so, please state), can we do a simple exercise and deduce how sane this debate really is? I doubt anyone here will be surprised to know that the ratio between the number of Jiggler watchers outnumber the number of dedicated Dannys on any given Odessa Tuesday. No?

One stand you seem to be taking here is this...'we' need to unite and take a stand and help and steer these 'men' from these despicable agencies and steer them to say...Mamba. Your principle reason to that is...it's a place/venue where 'sincere men' can meet and marry 'sincere women' for 'free'.

1. You are making the assumption all the women on Mamba are 'sincere'.
2. You are making the assumption that ALL the men doesn't really want to froth over jiggling breasts.

Fair enough...

It's already been mentioned here so I hope I am not imposing too much in making this point. You've been at this for over 10 years now, Jooky. Some of that was spent perusing EM amongst other ones, and now Mamba. You conveniently dismiss that the reason why you're not married is simply because a) 'you're not in a hurry to be', b) you haven't met one you'd like to mother your child, c) 'xxxxxxxxxx', etc..whatever other 'acceptable and understandable' reason/s you may have.

OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process? 10? 12? 100? 1000? How many now?

Simple deduction now then is....EM is cheaper and Mamba is free...sites that supposedly house 'sincere girls'.

1. You enjoy the same experience in the cheap and/or 'free' while HRB charges men for theirs thus we have a responsibility to let these men know HRB is a scam agency.

2. You, by technicality, is promoting to 'men' you do not know to use sites like Mamba because they have 'sincere girls' at their leisure to do whatever it is they plan on doing in sites like HRB.

3. In the end, it is somehow better to do 'this' on women who are sincerely searching for a partner than it is to women who specfically are doing it as a form of livelihood - because they can do it for 'free'.

This was the focal point I was making intially when I said, (AW and) HRB actually is/are a good filtering system. It gives the 95% a proper place to do their thang. Wouldn't you agree?

Sinister is as sinister does. Given there's 100 men out there we don't know asking what sites they can use, based on the ratio used above, is there any sensibility in believing that if you told these men to use 'HRB' that you would likely be 95% right?

[Jooky]

What appears to me that the underlying beef you have with HRB is that the heavy number of working girls trying to separate men from their money in exchange for a bit of fantasy makes them a scam agency because they carry the word 'bride'? You seem to be saying that is a complete misrepresentation of their business.

Yup. It makes them a site we should not be recommending to the guys who are looking for something serious.

1. You are making the assumption all the women on Mamba are 'sincere'.

Nope. With Mamba you haven't paid Mamba for their assurance that the women are sincere. With HRB you have.

2. You are making the assumption that ALL the men doesn't really want to froth over jiggling breasts.

Nope. But if this isn't a forum for recommending or discussing porn sites.

For the record, I haven't been 'at' anything for 10 years. I met a Russian girl on AOL 10 years ago. The first time I even looked at a 'bride' site was about 5 years ago. My marital status is irrelevant here.

1. You enjoy the same experience in the cheap and/or 'free' while HRB charges men for theirs thus we have a responsibility to let these men know HRB is a scam agency.

Nope. Wasting time chatting with girls who have no real interest whatsoever in me is not one of my experiences on other sites. I've done that at a strip club, but not on a personals site.

2. You, by technicality, is promoting to 'men' you do not know to use sites like Mamba because they have 'sincere girls' at their leisure to do whatever it is they plan on doing in sites like HRB.

I promote any site that allows people to exchange direct contact. What they do then is up to them.

3. In the end, it is somehow better to do 'this' on women who are sincerely searching for a partner than it is to women who specfically are doing it as a form of livelihood - because they can do it for 'free'.

Women on normal sites don't provide fake fantasy chat for dorks. They ignore them.

OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process?

You can take your unfounded accusations and go to hell. You're a real ass, GQ. Fuck off.

[TomT]

OK...so will it be fair for me to say that in the course of your search for elusive Masha all these years that you had enjoyed watching sincere Olgas, Marinas, Ludas, Svetas, Natashas, Irinas, etc...jiggle their hot, young beautiful breasts for you during the process? 10? 12? 100? 1000? How many now?

[You can take your unfounded accusations and go to hell. You're a real ass, GQ. *snip* off.

Someone seems to have struck a nerve.

[Jooky]

Damned right, I don't take it lightly when someone who has met me in person is misrepresting my character for the sake of his own entertainment.

[TomT]

I feel exactly the same way, whether we have met in person or not.