How did you meet?

[I/O]

I said I was skeptical about on-line acquaintanceship and marriages based on them.

What you also said was...............

I do feel bad for battered mail order brides which are many.

And when called out for an impulsive line you have gotten your knickers in a twist. BTW, whether you like it or not, simply by virtue of international marriage you'll be seen by most as an MOB. Are you at risk of being one of the many battered or abused women you speak of, higher risk than your domestic counterparts or will your grasp of English mitigate that risk?

I've no problem with you or anyone stating an opinion but by the very nature of forums and in the event an "opinion" casts dispersions over a wide group of people, the validity thereof will often be challenged as yours has. It's the presumption of innocence thing in this case seeing as you're shifting it "legal", you made the allegation, it's up to you to prove it or the case fails, it's not up to me to prove the opposite.  

[Misha]

However, local nationals have always been more protected and have friends and family to turn to in case domestic abuse happens. Russian women due to a number of limiting factors do not. That's why I'm very skeptical to on-line acquaintanceship. 

More protected? Sorry, the police will show up in North America, usually within minutes, if 911 is called, no matter the nationality of origin of the caller. There are shelters and a variety of services available to all women no matter their country of origin.

Also, based on the accounts of my wife and her friends who are in abusive relationships in Russia, they are not very "protected" by the police the institutions or even their family....

[Misha]

BTW, whether you like it or not, simply by virtue of international marriage you'll be seen by most as an MOB.

I agree. Everyone will pretty much assume that you are not telling the truth even if you say that you just "met" in real life...

[Misha]

There was a case with a beautiful 18-years old girl from Russia a few years ago marrying this [sorry!] fat ugly guy from Frisco or LA ...

The problem with such anecdotes is that I could come up with many more cases of RW being killed by young, hot Russian studs that they first met in person. Should I thus conclude that RW should only marry foreigners  :evil: The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it does not tell you whether the likelihood of something bad happening is any worse or any better than the general population.

[hon_bun]

BTW, whether you like it or not, simply by virtue of international marriage you'll be seen by most as an MOB.

I don't really care what people think about it.

[hon_bun]

The problem with such anecdotes is that I could come up with many more cases of RW being killed by young, hot Russian studs that they first met in person. Should I thus conclude that RW should only marry foreigners  :evil: The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it does not tell you whether the likelihood of something bad happening is any worse or any better than the general population.

I wouldn't call it an anecdote, it was a real case and all over US TV a few years ago. It was a real story and real people. You can Google it.

[Misha]

I wouldn't call it an anecdote, it was a real case and all over US TV a few years ago. It was a real story and real people. You can Google it.

I believe you that it is a real case, but I am telling you that there will be many, many, many real cases of women being killed by young, slim and attractive men in Russia, men they did not meet online.

I will even make it easy for you, here is one case of two women being killed: http://tagilcity.ru/news/tagil-news/paren-iz-g.-nizhniy-tagil-ubivshiy-dvuh-devushek-poluchil-17-let-turmy.html

[Blues Fairy]

I wouldn't call it an anecdote, it was a real case and all over US TV a few years ago. It was a real story and real people. You can Google it.

Anecdotal evidence, as opposed to hard statistics, is a single event, or several events, which may be true and verifiable, but are used to deduce a conclusion by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence.

Example: "my Grandpa smoked all his life and died at 99 in a car accident, therefore, smoking is good and healthy."  In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.  In your example, one, or several, cases of battery of "mail-order" women are used to generalize to all online daters based on nothing but anecdotal evidence, which may be true and verifiable but certainly insufficient to warrant a conclusion.  

[Blues Fairy]

I know but you can still get a feel of the person you see right in front of you. And it's always better that you do. I'm not trying to offend those who met through a web-site and ended up well. But I do feel bad for battered mail order brides which are many.
And oh, I do write well. =) If I were one of those translation girls translating letters from women, half of the US bachelors would be lining up at Russian Embassies counting down the days.

It's actually even easier to "get a feel of the person" just by reading his/her written text (that is, if you're not only a good writer but a good reader as well).  Too many people don't bother to read, and language proficiency has nothing to do with it.  

[hon_bun]

I believe you that it is a real case, but I am telling you that there will be many, many, many real cases of women being killed by young, slim and attractive men in Russia, men they did not meet online.

I will even make it easy for you, here is one case of two women being killed: http://tagilcity.ru/news/tagil-news/paren-iz-g.-nizhniy-tagil-ubivshiy-dvuh-devushek-poluchil-17-let-turmy.html

How does this justify or balance shortcomings and consequences of on-line acquaintanceship?

[Misha]

How does this justify shortcomings and consequences of on-line acquaintanceship?

Quite simple. One murder doesn't prove that all on-line acquaintances are bad and two murders of women in Russia does not mean that all women who meet local men in real life are bad either. Read BF's post. She provides a good definition of what is anecdotal evidence and summarizes well the dangers of relying on anecdotal evidence as proof. You are using one sad case to somehow imply that on-line international acquaintances are somehow worse than others, and I am trying to show you that it is easy enough to find equally sad cases that show the opposite of what you are trying to prove with an isolated case...

[hon_bun]

Quite simple. One murder doesn't prove that all on-line acquaintances are bad and two murders of women in Russia does not mean that all women who meet local men in real life are bad either. Read BF's post. She provides a good definition of what is anecdotal evidence and summarizes well the dangers of relying on anecdotal evidence as proof. You are using one sad case to somehow imply that on-line international acquaintances are somehow worse than others, and I am trying to show you that it is easy enough to find equally sad cases that show the opposite of what you are trying to prove with an isolated case...

I'm just surprised that being in this community you would ignore others who constantly reach out for help because they're in shelters (babies involved sometimes) trying to divorce somebody they thought was someone else and had all those ideas about the United States that had nothing to do with how it turned out to be...
Have you never heard of those women?
Anyways, I'm still going to say women risk it more trying meeting men the unconventional way than the conventional one. But I know that each party has their very specific motives so there is no point to argue anymore.

I'm going to take off now. Toodles! 

[Misha]

Have you never heard of those women?

Have you heard of those women who met their husbands online, moved to another country and are happy?

But I know that each party has their very specific motives so there is no point to argue anymore.

Yes, some want to be happily married 

[hon_bun]

Have you heard of those women who met their husbands online, moved to another country and are happy?

Yes, some want to be happily married 

I have and I'm happy for every one of you. In fact, I'm happy myself although I wasn't looking to get married and I wasn't on websites looking for an American husband... stuff happens. That doesn't make it easier but then I don't get why people would want to go to extreme lengths relaying on an HTML code for a happy marriage instead of trying to stick to their own kind through personal face-to-face connection?
Isn't it easier to stick to your own kind? And I'm sorry, generalization like "my own kind sucks, they're mean and greedy" doesn't count. You can't generalize anymore, remember?

[Misha]

Isn't it easier to stick to your own kind?

My own kind are humans, so I did stick to my own "kind" 

[I/O]

How does this justify or balance shortcomings and consequences of on-line acquaintanceship?

Funny, that's the point, what "shortcomings and consequences of on-line acquaintanceship"? Your one contention here is likelihood of abuse and battery. Comes back to showing credible evidence this is more likely, even as likely as a domestic relationship. So far all we have is huffing and puffing.

Isn't it easier to stick to your own kind?

There is more than one like you.................?

I'm going to take off now.

Promise?

[hon_bun]

There is more than one like you.................?

Yes, if you look around, there're at least flora and fauna around.
I wonder if your human wife has any say if this is the way you take opinions of human women. =)
Good night now. Don't forget to turn the all so universal clock 1 hour ahead. It's weird not everyone around is the world is going to do that tonight but the U.S.... those other humans must be just weird because we're supposed to be one kind.

[Blues Fairy]

I wonder if your human wife has any say if this is the way you take opinions of human women. =)

To be taken well, the opinion of a human woman has to be substantiated, just like the opinion of a human man. No excuses here.

[I/O]

I wonder if your human wife has any say if this is the way you take opinions of human women.

LOL, she has plenty of and to say, she's Russian (to the very bootstraps) but................she does so in a logical way and supports "opinions" with evidence. I stuck to my own kind.

[Ade]

I'm just surprised that being in this community you would ignore others who constantly reach out for help because they're in shelters (babies involved sometimes) trying to divorce somebody they thought was someone else and had all those ideas about the United States that had nothing to do with how it turned out to be...
Have you never heard of those women?
Anyways, I'm still going to say women risk it more trying meeting men the unconventional way than the conventional one. But I know that each party has their very specific motives so there is no point to argue anymore.
I am myself married to a U.S. citizen and whatever you say it's a huge adjustment mentally, physically, financially and socially. So, apart from loving each other you have to be motivated in a certain way to go to these extreme lengths to work on a relationship with a foreigner (for both parties) on a foreign territory (you're going to say Love here now but Love is also work because it doesn't just maintain itself on Awes and Ahs and Oh, you're so cute, I love you).
Even the great West Side Story everyone loves says "Stick to your own kind" because it's how it's supposed to be. It's how it is generally. We're just the exception.
So, it's quite surprising that you, being an exception, don't recognize the downsides and the risks of international on-line dating.
I'm going to take off now. Cheers!  

To answer the original question; my wife found me on a western dating site. After 2 months we met in Saint Petersburg, 18 months later and 6 months of living together we were married. My wife never joined a "MOB" site and has stated that she never would have. I wasn't looking specifically for anyone outside of the country although I've technically been dating internationally for the past 20 years; that's how long I've lived outside my home country and my ex-wife is a Norwegian I met while living in Switzerland.

As for your assertion, or one of them, that online dating is more risky; just from the nature of the medium, it's of course far easier to initially pull the wool over people's eyes but once the first face-to-face meeting has taken place, the playing field is levelled and you can no longer hide behind the digital dreams. I can sympathize with those women that get used by the time wasters/keyboard Romeos that never intend to visit and those that get scammed by the dating agencies but they have to take some personal responsibility there; I know of some women that spent years waiting for "their guy" to come visiting only to be perpetually disappointed or to find out later that he was already married. One guy I heard of "died" only to appear again on another dating site. Women (and men) need to be more pragmatic and cut communication when it become obvious that "their guy" has absolutely no interest in visiting them or have been less than fully open with them.

But once they've met, there's no difference than meeting anyone for the first time in a bar, store or library; sure, those that used old photos or blatantly and obliviously lied through their teeth during their electronic communications are going to be a shocker but those obvious lies are going to be plain for anyone with their eyes open.

Many women have domestic relationships with men from their own towns only to be beaten in incredibly abusive relationships or even find out years later that he's married to another woman and was when they met. There are so many incidents like this that if you were that way inclined you could generalize that most domestic relationships are abusive.

People make bad choices. Period. And most people are inherently not very good at being objective when viewing a relationship and their prospective partners. This is no different in the real world or online one.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "better off with their own kind". I'll assume you mean people from their own cultural and language backgrounds. Well, yes, that's the ideal of course; it would certainly, or at least usually, be easier and less prone to culture shock and language difficulties. But that's not always possible; a lot of people have trouble finding a compatible partner in their own country and I guess the reasons are many and varied. FWIW, the relationship I have with my wife is not at all difficult and requires no "work" at all; my theory is that the more compatible you are the less "work" you need to maintain a relationship. Some people would disagree I guess. Also, she hasn't suffered at all from culture shock or homesickness either but I think she is one of the more suitable personality types for an international marriage. Quite a few, I think, should never enter into it as they are just not able to cope with some of the more difficult aspects (such as the possible language barrier issues, and the pressures of moving to another country to name but two).

One statistic performed by this site stands out in my mind; the rate of divorce in international marriages seems to be less than that of domestic ones. How accurate is that? Well, even assuming a large 10% error rate it's still much better than the overwhelmingly negative picture that some people imply when they generalize about international marriages.

I should also say that I do think very dysfunctional/abusive people will tend to gravitate to MOB dating as there is much propaganda that panders to that mindset - the "submissive, traditional wife" in need of saving and will therefore be forever in their debt imagery will, I'm sure, attract many of them. But they are no different than the predators that hang out in bars, clubs and grocery stores looking for an easy target; women have to keep their eyes open and be ready to cut communication. Some don't; I know of one woman that recently married a Norwegian that entered into the relationship knowing full well how weird her boyfriend was. She admitted it to my wife! This is a 40 year old woman that should have known better. Now she is in what has deteriorated into an abusive, uncaring relationship after giving up her (very good) job and life in Moscow. Some people seem to go out of their way to screw up their lives. On the other hand, we also personally know 3 other international couples, one side of which is a Russian or Ukrainian woman, in relativity recent marriages that are perfectly happy.

[Anotherkiwi]

...Good night now. Don't forget to turn the all so universal clock 1 hour ahead. It's weird not everyone around is the world is going to do that tonight but the U.S.... those other humans must be just weird because we're supposed to be one kind.

There isn't much point for those of us heading towards winter.  We've been on Summer Time/Daylight Saving Time for months!

[Rina_G]

We met here - on RWD forum
very fun story lol

[vwrw]

According to statistics, in 2007, 1 out of 8 couples married in the US the year met online. I do not have statistics for the following years, but taking into consideration the proliferation of Internet users, I am inclined to believe the number is increasing.

From Anthropology course, I have learned that the rate of domestic abuse against women declines in USA (I do not remember for how long already); while the rate of domestic abuse against men increases.

Considering both of the statistics together, I cannot see how meeting men on Internet could put you in higher risk for abusive relationship.   

We met here - on RWD forum
very fun story lol

Please, tell us your story!

[Gator]

The interaction with HonBun is good reading for newbies to get a glimpse of what they could encounter.

[Gator]

HonBun,

You ignored Blues Fairy’s comments.  She’s one of your kind.  Actually, that is not true.  Blues Fairy is persuaded more by facts and analysis rather than perceptions and hearsay.