What % of these women do you think will marry ANYONE to move to america

[TomT]

Saving money in the FSU is the epitome of durakness..

Based on what I've observed, so is dental care. (Unless bonding veneers to rotting teeth, which reside in diseased gums/bone, counts as dental care.)

[Misha]

I'm a young guy only 21 and I don't have a problem getting women here but I've always liked russian women and I think they would be a lot less materialistic and just have a whole different attitude.

As others have noted, the "less materialistic" does not apply to must RW. However, given your age, why don't you simply take a year and go live in Russia studying Russian? Go, have fun, expand your horizons, learn another language.... If you find love, great, if not you will be that much better a person for the experience IMHO"

[JR]

Yep, it never ceases to amaze me how people who don't own a car, a flat, have savings or any prospects for the future can rationize spending a month's (or more) salary for a piece of portable status that depreciates to worthlessness as soon as the next model is released. Not that the affliction is FSU-specific, mind you; there are millions of these duraks in the West.  

The duraks are in the west. They are the ones who believe that a piece of paper has more intrinsic value than the paper it is printed upon.

[Chicagoguy]

When I first went to Russia in 1992 and the next few years there might have been a few more wanting to "escape". Things were really in a flux back then and there was much uncertainty and anxiety. Maybe this is where the idea started that they were desperate.

They had been watching many American movies and were thinking that it was all milk and honey here in the U.S.

But in Russia itself that has almost completely changed and most of them are satisfied now. Heck, maybe we should move there 

[TomT]

The duraks are in the west. They are the ones who believe that a piece of paper has more intrinsic value than the paper it is printed upon.

Anyone who believes that legal tender does not have more value than the paper that it is printed upon shouldn't have a problem with sending five or ten 'C' notes to a scammer every now and again.

[dbneeley]

This thread has been interesting, partly because of some statements that are not entirely accurate made by people who really should know better.

One small remark, for example, that put down dental care in the FSU caught my eye. Like every profession there are some dentists here who are terrible, some who are quite good--and everything in the middle. My family has used two dentists during the past ten or twelve years--one in the small town of Lisichansk and one here in Donetsk. Interestingly enough, they are sisters. The one here is also a professor of dentistry at the local medical school, and is quite good--but my wife thinks her sister in the small town is actually a better dentist.

In many cases, though, poor dental work is the result of people with very little money trying to take the absolute cheapest route for treatment--or neglecting dental treatment far too long to begin with.

As for materialism, I think it is true that the young people here are incredibly materialistic as a general rule.

When it comes to apartments, it is common for families to save to buy a flat for kids. In our case, we closed on a second flat a bit over a week ago. My mother-in-law is moving down with us now that she has lost her husband. She will live here with my stepson, and my wife and I will move into the "new" flat about two blocks away. Later on, as the young man is through with his university studies he will ultimately wind up with this flat. That is a fairly common pattern, one way or another.

Of course, my wife is incredibly frugal in many ways and we have been planning on this move for several years now--since the babushka's husband had terminal cancer that took that long to finish him off after diagnosis.

David

[Gator]

The voice of experience.  Please talk more, db.

[TomT]

The voice of experience.  Please talk more, db.

 

[dbneeley]

 

Apparently, TomT takes exception to my statements about dentistry here. Let me amplify a bit more, then.

I have known various Western men who have actually come to the FSU to have dental work done in the best clinics here--work that is often world class in quality but for far less money than in the West--where many health insurance policies don't cover dental work.

In any society in which there is a great lack of money, dental work is often neglected and the resulting situation can be seriously bad. Too often, people scrape together enough cash to have only some of the cosmetics done in a kind of half-a** fashion--usually realizing that not too long afterwards the teeth will be completely lost and dentures the result. In too many cases, it's simply the least costly route.

Also, the best dental work here uses Western-made dental materials--often either German or American. So far as I know, nothing produced here in the way of dental specialty items is particularly well regarded.

At the same time, the very best dentists here often take some training in the West--or their teachers might. (I had Christmas dinner with a colleague of my wife's. Although he is also an anesthesiologist and not a dentist, he just returned from his annual month-long vacation--which he spent most of studying in a Swiss medical library in Lausanne where he had access to the latest Western medical journals which he simply cannot afford in Ukraine. Dedicated medical professionals here often go to some rather extreme lengths to further their education. Similarly, the orthopedic surgeon who removed two of my toes last year saw a great need and started a diabetic foot clinic here a few years back. He is also a medical school professor, and is as good a doctor as I have met anywhere. In fact, I had to wait a week for surgery while he attended a medical conference in Los Angeles. The top dentists do the same sorts of things to stay at the forefront of their practice.)

If you are a medical practitioner here, funding from the government for their "free" medical care system is completely inadequate. Thus, the clinics may not have the funds to provide needed medicines and supplies--so they must be purchased by the patients, often even down to bandages and the like.

In the West, often it is dental care that is neglected most among the poor. The same seems true here in the FSU. If you need extractions of teeth too much damaged to be saved, that is simple and cheap. However, if you need a replacement--perhaps a crown or a bridge, there are obviously various kinds of materials that can be used. The cheapest ones are pretty poor, generally, and may not be more than cosmetic. However, if you simply cannot afford better, that may be your option if, indeed, you have an extracted tooth replaced with a prosthesis rather than just left as a gap.

Still, first quality dental care is certainly available here and by Western standards it is incredibly inexpensive. If your salary is a couple hundred bucks a month, though, fitting in even an inexpensive dental bill may be impossible or nearly so. A hospital nurse, for example, may only be paid about a hundred dollars a month in many cases and only rarely more than two hundred or so. In fact, the most senior physicians are generally paid under four hundred dollars per month as their salary. Given the constraints in supplies and equipment under which they work, I think many do an amazing job.

For those only now seeking a bride in the FSU, by the way, it is fairly common to find a woman who may need thousands of dollars in dental work after arriving in the West. Fortunately, that seems to be improving as the finances have improved for many people over the last decade or so.

David

[TomT]

Apparently, TomT takes exception to my statements about dentistry here. Let me amplify a bit more, then.

No, David; I was amused by the obliqueness of Gator's comment. I am not debating the qualifications of FSU dentists.

[Gator]

No, David; I was amused by the obliqueness of Gator's comment. I am not debating the qualifications of FSU dentists.

Amused?  You have a twisted SOH.

I found db's comment as representing an informed man, something I welcome in a new poster.

[TomT]

Amused?  You have a twisted SOH.

I found db's comment as representing an informed man, something I welcome in a new poster.

I don't disagree that David is well informed. He made an erroneous assumption about my post #50 and you praised him for it. That struck me as being very funny. You can attribute that to my having a twisted SOH, if it pleases you, but a difference in our brain wiring is probably closer to the truth.

Anyway... I think that we pretty much agree that the vast majority of FSU women don't marry ANYONE.

[Gator]

... but a difference in our brain wiring is probably closer to the truth.

Isn't it terrible when one must explain something that should be obvious. 

I am not wired like most people, and I imagine you also fall in that category as do many men who pursue RW.  While we differ from the norm, I agree that it is highly unlikely that you and I are the same.  Anomalies are not similar other than outlying the range of "normal."

[Misha]

Anyway... I think that we pretty much agree that the vast majority of FSU women don't marry ANYONE.

Most will marry someone, and that someone will invariably be an FSU man in most cases.

[TomT]

Isn't it terrible when one must explain something that should be obvious.

Yes, it's bloody appalling!

The legendary Smooth Operator wrote it best:

Joined: 10/09/02
Posts: 912  TRM candidate
Posted Friday, July 28, 2006 at 5:03 PM


"As the acting dean of the School of Smooth, I must state that there is no such acronym in the present canon. The reason because such an acronym would beg the question of what the difference between a second- and third-rate mutha would be, when such a distinction would not be necessary. Would you prefer horse*snip* or dog*snip*? Who cares! S-R-M's (second-rate muthas) are S-R-M's, regardless of how hideous one is compared to another. Jethro in the video may not be so smart, but he is not fat and has all his hair. He would certainly be more appealing if he kept his mouth shut. Nevertheless, the School of Smooth does not acknowledge the proposed identification. Fourth-, tenth-, twentieth-rate muthas are not necessary, because why bicker over a fellow being fourth-rate instead of third? S-R-M's are S-R-M's, so keep it simple."


Unfortunately, the underlying meaning went right over everyone's head. Why don't you take a stab at it? (It relates to the current topic.)

[Gator]

The legendary Smooth Operator wrote it best....Unfortunately, the underlying meaning went right over everyone's head. Why don't you take a stab at it?

Here's a quick attempt.

Anyway... I think that we pretty much agree that the vast majority of FSU women don't marry ANYONE S-R-M's or anyone as tactless and insensitive as Smooth .

[TomT]

Smooth's between-the-lines message was that we are all S-R-M's because of our inability to compete on a level playing field. Of course, everyone is maneuvering for position on the S-R-M pecking order by virtue of having a bit more hair, less abdominal fat, more financial strength, a stronger libido (or more viagra), less-hideous facial features, more professional accomplishments, looking younger than their age, a bigger whatever, having already "succeeded," making more posts on a forum, how well that they do locally (what a hoot!), yada, yada, yada...   It's all really very silly because, as Smooth wrote, it doesn't matter whether we are fourth, tenth or twentieth-rate S-R-M's; the distinction is unnecessary.

The application of this principle to the thread topic is a masterpiece of simplicity: it's true that an FSU woman won't marry just ANYONE to move to America (or wherever)... because she has fourth, tenth, twentiest-rate muthas and everything in between to choose from. If she's lucky, she might get hooked up with someone whose pathologies she can stomach until she trades up, gives up or gets used to them. If we're lucky, her biggest problems will be her bad teeth or her lack of assets. (This is the sort of stuff that romance novels are made of, no?)  

 
p.s.

I will not deny the existence of the rare couple who will love each other as they are, after the pretending stops.

[Jumper]

Smooth's between-the-lines message was that we are all S-R-M's because of our inability to compete on a level playing field. Of course, everyone is maneuvering for position on the S-R-M pecking order by virtue of having a bit more hair, less abdominal fat, more financial strength, a stronger libido (or more viagra), less-hideous facial features, more professional accomplishments, looking younger than their age, a bigger whatever, having already "succeeded," making more posts on a forum, how well that they do locally (what a hoot!), yada, yada, yada...   It's all really very silly because, as Smooth wrote, it doesn't matter whether we are fourth, tenth or twentieth-rate S-R-M's; the distinction is unnecessary.

The application of this principle to the thread topic is a masterpiece of simplicity: it's true that an FSU woman won't marry just ANYONE to move to America (or wherever)... because she has fourth, tenth, twentiest-rate muthas and everything in between to choose from. If she's lucky, she might get hooked up with someone whose pathologies she can stomach until she trades up, gives up or gets used to them. If we're lucky, her biggest problems will be her bad teeth or her lack of assets. (This is the sort of stuff that romance novels are made of, no?)  

 
p.s.

I will not deny the existence of the rare couple who will love each other as they are, after the pretending stops.

Actually despite that being such a heart warming thought,
I don't think most RW have thier pick of My Mother Dropped Me on My Head!'s , regardless if they are first string My Mother Dropped Me on My Head!'s, or bench warmers..
 I'd say  the average RW signed up at a marriage agency , or similar type of website, unless extreemly pro active in her own pursuit, will likely never meet a foriegn man, much less marry one.
 
and if she met one, certainly would not mean she would marry him to simply get *out*

Its a typical  distasteful MOB stereotype, and while the situation occurs , i doubt any couple here sees themselves in it..
 
Of course Smooth never felt the My Mother Dropped Me on My Head! acronym belonged to himself either right?  

Interesting how this is  almost always the case,people make generalities that somehow so very seldom ever relates
  to them or thier spouses,  or anyone else they actually know.
it somehow always only relates to the huddled grey masses.
 


 
While i've seen my share of misfits in several countries,
I find it rather silly to assume every man ,or woman, looking abroad has something *amiss*.

If it only took being as FRM (first rate mutha) for relationships to be successful and easy  "domestically" --
well then  -- countless novels, movies, songs , poetry,etc etc wouldn't have unrequeted love, or love lost,  as thier main themes

and wouldnt be so popular world wide..?

or perhaps all those silly love ballads over the centuries were only written for the beloved .or love striken ? My Mother Dropped Me on My Head!'s..
 
 

[Jumper]

LOL I  like the auto-correction of S-R-M

[Gator]

TomT,

Have you succumbed to negative thinking?   Where is your pride?  

Each of us, man or woman, has an ample and mixed share of wonderful qualities.  The quest is to find someone who values our given and acquired qualities over those we might be lacking.  If they dislike us, there are plenty more fish in the sea.

I will not deny the existence of the rare couple who will love each other as they are....

IMO this is not rare, and perhaps is commonplace among enduring marriages.  It is what remains when lustful crazy love dissipates and bonding occurs.  Her skin moles and small nipples become adorable merely because they are part of her.  What is the alternative?  A constant craving for someone different as if perfection exists.  No thank you!

[TomT]

AJ,

Smooth would probably reply that a 'first-rate mutha' is an oxymoron. In any event, he had a greater challenge than most: his ethnicity. His persona might have been writing down to the masses but he knew the score.

[Rubicon]

This thread has been interesting, partly because of some statements that are not entirely accurate made by people who really should know better.

One small remark, for example, that put down dental care in the FSU caught my eye. Like every profession there are some dentists here who are terrible, some who are quite good--and everything in the middle. My family has used two dentists during the past ten or twelve years--one in the small town of Lisichansk and one here in Donetsk. Interestingly enough, they are sisters. The one here is also a professor of dentistry at the local medical school, and is quite good--but my wife thinks her sister in the small town is actually a better dentist.

In many cases, though, poor dental work is the result of people with very little money trying to take the absolute cheapest route for treatment--or neglecting dental treatment far too long to begin with.

As for materialism, I think it is true that the young people here are incredibly materialistic as a general rule.

When it comes to apartments, it is common for families to save to buy a flat for kids. In our case, we closed on a second flat a bit over a week ago. My mother-in-law is moving down with us now that she has lost her husband. She will live here with my stepson, and my wife and I will move into the "new" flat about two blocks away. Later on, as the young man is through with his university studies he will ultimately wind up with this flat. That is a fairly common pattern, one way or another.

Of course, my wife is incredibly frugal in many ways and we have been planning on this move for several years now--since the babushka's husband had terminal cancer that took that long to finish him off after diagnosis.

David

I have read that Odessa Ukraine has very good dentists.  and apparently they advertise that they use materials from Germany.

[TomT]

Gator,

You can believe that people who are involved in international dating are the best of the best of the best, if it suits you. You can make up any rubbish that you wish about loving the accent, the blending of cultures, the adventurousness, communicating without words, the intrigue and discovering wonderful qualities in someone from the other side of the world. Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that this is a desperation move (on both sides) brought about by a pattern of miserable failures with local relationships. The lot of us are so isolated from reality that it scarcely raises an eyebrow when people marry within the week of their first meeting. (Isn't it terrible when one must explain something that should be obvious?) Guys who haven't had a woman since the Bush administration probably think that their reversal of fortune is smashing, nevermind that the root cause of their failures is alive, well and needs to be addressed if their current folly is to succeed.

This business about what percentage of FSU women will marry ANYONE is analogous to worrying about housekeeping while the place is burning down.  

[Daveman]

Gator,

You can believe that people who are involved in international dating are the best of the best of the best, if it suits you. You can make up any rubbish that you wish about loving the accent, the blending of cultures, the adventurousness, communicating without words, the intrigue and discovering wonderful qualities in someone from the other side of the world. Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that this is a desperation move (on both sides) brought about by a pattern of miserable failures with local relationships. The lot of us are so isolated from reality that it scarcely raises an eyebrow when people marry within the week of their first meeting. (Isn't it terrible when one must explain something that should be obvious?) Guys who haven't had a woman since the Bush administration probably think that their reversal of fortune is smashing, nevermind that the root cause of their failures is alive, well and needs to be addressed if their current folly is to succeed.

This business about what percentage of FSU women will marry ANYONE is analogous to worrying about housekeeping while the place is burning down.  

Certainly there are good, bad, and ugly on both sides of the process.  The OP, however, is a rather young gentleman just beginning to consider the option of possibly looking abroad.  He posed a valid question for one with no experience with either the women or the "process" (for lack of a better word). 

My suggestion for avoiding the ANYONE question to 'anyone' doing this, including the OP (from one who is not married to an RW), is STOP looking for a damn wife. Find a great woman, date, woo, court, have a blast, fight, kiss, bitch, love, bite, experience life.... a kick-ass girlfriend with whom the relationship flat lights your soul on fire.  When you find yourself in that kind of relationship then marry the woman who built it with you. 

[Gator]

You can believe that people who are involved in international dating are the best of the best of the best, if it suits you.

Never said or implied that.  

The lot of us are so isolated from reality that it scarcely raises an eyebrow when people marry within the week of their first meeting.

Now, now.  Please keep your examples within reason.

Guys who haven't had a woman since the Bush administration probably think that their reversal of fortune is smashing...

What percentage of men haven't had a woman in two years.  It has to be low, although perhaps higher than the percentage of RW who would marry ANYONE. Unlike me, you had the opportunity to examine the profiles of men who write HRB women, so quite possibly there is some truth to what you say.  I met a few AM at an agency in Ukraine.  Most men seemed normal albeit inexperienced.

...nevermind that the root cause of their failures is alive, well and needs to be addressed if their current folly is to succeed.

I agree with you that a man needs to look into the mirror before undertaking this venture.  If there is something about him that local women don't like, the answer is not to date RW but to fix what's wrong or lower his goal..  

This business about what percentage of FSU women will marry ANYONE is analogous to worrying about housekeeping while the place is burning down.  

Bottom line:  I believe you are taking this too seriously.  This question was raised by a 21-yo.  I suggest that you tackle questions such as:  How did a fool and money ever get together?