Greetings from Donetsk!

[dbneeley]

I have been asked to write an introduction. Just as so many ladies say in their online profiles, it is difficult to describe myself with any sort of comfort or felicity--but I'll give it a shot.

Many of you here already know me--or at least my online version!--from other Internet forums and lists. I'm David Neeley (and from my user name you will see I use my own name rather than the more colorful kinds of pseudonyms...more out of habit these days, but also probably because my creativity doesn't seem to extend to self-naming in that fashion). I live as an expatriate in Donetsk, Ukraine, with my wife and stepson. If it matters, somehow I find myself 61 years old and I have both a son and a grand-daughter back in Texas.

I am essentially retired on a small disability pension; my wife Irina still actively practices as an anesthesiologist and critical care physician in the primary OB/GYN hospital in Donetsk. Her title translates to "Physician of the Highest Rank"--which is no small accomplishment in the system here, by the way. My stepson Feodor is now in his second year at the Donetsk National Technical University where he is an engineering student.

Before moving to Donetsk, I lived in Texas--most immediately from Dallas.

I spent about ten years practicing law--about two thirds or so of my practice was family law, about a fifteen or twenty percent was dealing with immigration...but many years ago now. The last two years of my practice was actually about half immigration stuff, but very little before that. When I got my own divorce, my interest in practicing law essentially evaporated. After that, I worked mostly as a writer and editor for various companies in the States--working in technical and marketing communications. I also did some IT consulting, training, and a few other roles from time to time along the way.

I participate in these lists mostly for a very simple reason: I believe strongly in the "pay it forward" philosophy, and I well remember all the help I received when I was embarking on this fascinating journey.

In my posts, I try to introduce a level of common sense coupled with some understanding of the "conditions on the ground" over here. At the same time, I always try to remember that these threads have a life of their own, and are often read by newcomers long after the discussion may have moved on. Thus, some of my posts may have more detail than would strictly be necessary to respond to the original poster's query--but which I think may prove useful to someone encountering the discussion later on.

Still, I am learning every day and have no claim to having the absolute last word on any given topic. I can only share the knowledge and experience I may have, which may in fact run counter to your own at times. It can often be extremely enlightening to discover divergent experiences--which are far more common when dealing with the bureaucracy than we might like...and that is true here in the FSU just as it is in every other country of which I am aware!

Finally, I have been active politically for many years now--and maintain a strong interest even now. Thus, for those who like to rant about political issues, you may be sure I am not a shrinking violet who will wilt and blow away at the slightest controversy.

[Daveman]

Welcome to the Asylum, David.  Normally I would invite new guys and gals to jump into discussions wherever they feel comfortable, but you've already taken that route  so... How long have you been married?  What made you decide to "expat" in Donetsk and how long have you lived there?

Dave

[ECOCKS]

 

Your presence and participation is appreciated already.

[dbneeley]

Thanks, guys.

To answer Daveman's questions:

We will soon celebrate our ninth anniversary. My decision to live in Donetsk was a simple one--we never cared whether they moved to the States or I moved here. After some serious medical issues and beginning to receive my very small disability pension, it quickly became clear that the only practical approach was for me to move here simply on a financial basis. We could not afford to send my stepson to any sort of decent university in the States, for example. Here, he attends one of the two top engineering schools in Ukraine (which is better largely depends upon which specialty you may be speaking of.) Between the relative pittance my wife makes and my pension, we can afford to live here. We could not afford to live on my pension alone in the U.S.--and as you may be aware, for a foreign physician to become licensed in the States takes more years than we care to think about--and, since Ira turned 50 in November, that ship has long since sailed.

Oh, yes--I have been here full time for about 27 months now. Before that, I went back and forth as often as possible.

David

[Nat]

Hi David! Welcome to RWD!
What a small world it is - I also live in Donetsk, but not as an expatriate - as a native inhabitant

[dbneeley]

Hi David! Welcome to RWD!
What a small world it is - I also live in Donetsk, but not as an expatriate - as a native inhabitant

Yes, what a coincidence!

Perhaps when my wife returns in early January, we can find a time to meet in person.

We live in the Southeast part of the city, very near the Virus night club if you know where that is.

David

[Nat]

Yes, what a coincidence!

Perhaps when my wife returns in early January, we can find a time to meet in person.

Nice idea May be we'll even be able to organise something like an RWD community meeting, because as far as I know at least 2 more people from here are gonna be in Donetsk in January

We live in the Southeast part of the city, very near the Virus night club if you know where that is.

I've heard of it but I've never been there. Anyway, I looked it up on Google maps

[Gator]

David,

Welcome!

I recognized in your post in another thread that you have much to share with RWD. 

Many men have contemplated what you have done, yet few have done it.  Do you miss English-speaking friends?

[dbneeley]

David,

Welcome!

I recognized in your post in another thread that you have much to share with RWD. 

Many men have contemplated what you have done, yet few have done it.  Do you miss English-speaking friends?

I have a few English-speaking friends here--and I am far too slowly learning a little Russian. I originally learned Spanish to the point of being considered passably fluent in three months--but I was 18 at that point. Now, more than 40 years later, my ears and brain don't seem to think quite as efficiently in learning a new language!

David

[Rubicon]

   thanks for joining the forum, David.

if you don't mind, can you please tell me the procedure for becoming a legal resident of Ukraine??

[Maxx2]

I spent about ten years practicing law--about two thirds or so of my practice was family law, about a fifteen or twenty percent was dealing with immigration...but many years ago now. The last two years of my practice was actually about half immigration stuff,

I participate in these lists mostly for a very simple reason: I believe strongly in the "pay it forward" philosophy, and I well remember all the help I received when I was embarking on this fascinating journey.

As one David to another welcome to the board. On another forum a month or so ago we and two other guys bumped heads. I hope we can put that behind us. It seems from reading what you wrote above is that you might not be an "establishment hack" as I said. I am willing to bet we have quite a lot of similar views on life even the one that it is a good idea to pay your taxes 

Someday in the near future I am going to post in the Experienced Section some interviews with some RW immigration attorneys I filmed. I would very much appreciate your opinions and thoughts on this when I do and help us sort fact from fiction. You and I have a similar view on paying it forward. I guess that is why we are here.

Maxx

[dbneeley]

 thanks for joining the forum, David.

if you don't mind, can you please tell me the procedure for becoming a legal resident of Ukraine??

The only basis for legal residence in Ukraine with which I am familiar is based upon being married to a Ukrainian citizen. If you are, it is fairly straight-forward but, as usual with Ukrainian bureaucracy, it can be extremely aggravating and time-consuming.

When I was first preparing to move to Ukraine, my wife checked with OVIR. Technically, since I was not entering as a tourist, I should have had to have a visa since the "visa-free regime" is not for people intending to immigrate. OVIR advised us differently and said to simply come without visa. I had the usual stack of documents already--the folks at OVIR made a list for Ira. We already had them all since we had intended at one time for Ira to emigrate to the U.S. before health issues precluded it, so that was a non-issue.

Once I was here and within the first month or so, we both went to OVIR's closest office and made the application. We paid the fee involved at the bank branch next door and returned the receipt showing payment to the OVIR people, who then stamped my passport to show I was in process with a resident visa application so I did not need to leave the country while it was pending.

Since we chose not to pay any bribes, we had *many* trips back and forth to OVIR for one reason or another. I made about four, if memory serves, but my wife had to go back more often than that for one reason or another. Several times, it was pointed out that for a suitable "fee" the process could be expedited.

Early in the process, too, I had to be officially registered as a resident of our flat. The amount of payment for some utilities is based upon the number of residents--water and waste water, for instance. Theoretically, every resident is registered somewhere--for example, one of the things we must do in coming months is change the official residence address for my wife and myself to the new flat we bought this month, as soon as the renovation is far enough along that we can move in.

(Amusingly, at one point my wife was so angry with an overt bribe solicitation that she told me she was tempted to "introduce them to my brother." Irina's brother is a senior colonel in the SBU's Presidential Police--which among other things has an anti-corruption brief. She has never used that relationship for personal gain in all the years I have known her, but she was seriously tempted this time. Had she done so, the OVIR people would *not* have been happy with the results...)

Anyway, after all the going back and forth--the times I went were mostly to sign various documents)--we finally went to an appointment at the OVIR regional office at which we received my actual visa document, which contains one of the photos we had provided earlier as well as the required identification and related information. I keep it with my passport, so when I go and come I simply show that and don't need any other visa nor do I fall into the visa-free requirements.

The entire process consumed the better part of an entire year, by the way. I have no idea if it could have been completed faster than it was, as we had no need of having it done faster. In fact, I had a hospital stay and a period of recovery afterward during this time--at least one of the trips I had to make was on crutches, in fact.

With the legal resident visa, I could work legally and "on the books" if I wished.

As with many bureaucratic issues, the rules may be interpreted somewhat differently in various departments and even offices within those departments. Thus, if you wish to do this it is best to check with the prevailing requirements at the local OVIR office. When we did, the clerk there wrote a list of the necessary steps and documents for my wife. Presumably, another office could well have some differences compared to that one.

Sorry I haven't been more specific--but as I indicated, that would be somewhat subject to change from time to time and office to office. However, if you are applying for residence based on marriage to a Ukrainian citizen, at the very least you will need official copies of your marriage documents (translated into Ukrainian if you married elsewhere) and of course your passport. I don't recall if they also needed my birth certificate--which we already had together with suitable translation because of earlier use). Since we married in Ukraine, that was all the evidence they needed that ours is a valid marriage in all respects.

I hope this has adequately addressed your question, at least to the extent possible within my experience.

David

[JR]

 

Welcome David and it's nice to read the usual story in reverse ))

Best to you and your wife.

[dbneeley]

Welcome David and it's nice to read the usual story in reverse ))

Best to you and your wife.

Thank you most sincerely!

David

[PARADOJAS]

Hi Dave,

I remember your posts from the "the old wild days" back around 10 years ago. You've always given creditable advise and been a voice of reason when things got out of hand on some of those flaming threads of yesteryear. I spent a month in Donetsk in December of 2000-January 2001. I was living with a former girlfriend in the eastern part of the city and was going through all the paperwork for her and her son's visas. Unfortunately, things didn't work out for us. But I did enjoy my stay there. I was even able to read "War and Peace" in its entirity at Svetlana's kitchen table drinking tea and eating black bread.

Cheers,
RJ

[dbneeley]

Hi Dave,

I remember your posts from the "the old wild days" back around 10 years ago. You've always given creditable advise and been a voice of reason when things got out of hand on some of those flaming threads of yesteryear. I spent a month in Donetsk in December of 2000-January 2001. I was living with a former girlfriend in the eastern part of the city and was going through all the paperwork for her and her son's visas. Unfortunately, things didn't work out for us. But I did enjoy my stay there. I was even able to read "War and Peace" in its entirity at Svetlana's kitchen table drinking tea and eating black bread.

Cheers,
RJ

Thanks for the kind words!

Things have changed so much since those years in Donetsk that in many areas it is hardly recognizable if you haven't seen it since then.

We live on the Southeast side of town ourselves--in the Buddenovsky area. In the last five years or so, in this area there have appeared increasingly large stores fairly close to us--first was a supermarket of about 30,000 square feet; almost immediately it was followed by a "hypermarket" across the street of perhaps a hundred thousand. Next, another one about a kilometer or a bit less from that point larger still; and most recently, to gargantuan ones (one less than a kilometer, another perhaps two) that are each over a quarter million square feet. Thus, we seldom must go elsewhere in the city for practically anything we need. (There is also a rinok at the end of our block going the opposite direction from the supermarket).

Did you subsequently marry--and if so, where is your wife from?

David

[PARADOJAS]

No, I'm still single. I live in Vermont and am looking for a country woman. I used to shop at the large open air market with the butcher shops, et. al. Living there and in St. Petersburg inspired me to write a novel, as yet unpublished, entitled, THE LYING DOWN ROOM.

RJ

[Taz]

Welcome Daivid.  Where you on RWL (the St. John's List) for a long time as well?

[dbneeley]

Welcome Daivid.  Where you on RWL (the St. John's List) for a long time as well?

Greetings!

I've been on that list since about two or three months after it began initially--and still am, for that matter, although it's not very active these days. They are no longer hosted by St. John's--these days, they're at icors.org, I believe.

I am also on several others. As far as I know, the most active of the Yahoo groups still around is the Russian Bride List.

David

[t_g_k]

Hello David,

I have finally used your advice to join the site to socialize a bit. This is my first attempt to talk...
You are quite a popular member here :-) I am glad for you.

Feeling very uncomfortable not knowing which buttons to press... Hope this will reach you,
tatiana, kiev

[SANDRO43]

Welcome to RWD, Tatiana.

Feeling very uncomfortable not knowing which buttons to press...

If you are experiencing those difficulties, have a look at:

http://www.webalice.it/sanfloriani/RWDHelp.html

It's an incomplete Help page that I had prepared but has not been put online here at RWD because of an impending platform change that will require an extensive update. In the meantime, however, it can show you how to accomplish a few basic tasks.

[Muzh]

Hello David,

I have finally used your advice to join the site to socialize a bit. This is my first attempt to talk...
You are quite a popular member here :-) I am glad for you.

Feeling very uncomfortable not knowing which buttons to press... Hope this will reach you,
tatiana, kiev

Tatiana, Privet   

I believe there is an introduction section. Would you mind saying a little bit about yourself? 

[dbneeley]

Greetings, Tatiana!

For those who don't know her, Tatiana was the translator who originally put my wife Irina's profile on the Internet, and she interpreted for us during several days on my first trip to Ukraine.

She is also a teacher of English now based in Kyiv, and last I heard she was working to acquire similar fluency in German.

Among the various interpreters I've met in Ukraine, Tatiana is as good as any and far better than most.

David

[Rubicon]

Hello David,

I have finally used your advice to join the site to socialize a bit. This is my first attempt to talk...
You are quite a popular member here :-) I am glad for you.

Feeling very uncomfortable not knowing which buttons to press... Hope this will reach you,
tatiana, kiev

   to the forum, Tatiana

[Kineo]

Hello David,

I have finally used your advice to join the site to socialize a bit. This is my first attempt to talk...
You are quite a popular member here :-) I am glad for you.

Feeling very uncomfortable not knowing which buttons to press... Hope this will reach you,
tatiana, kiev

  You will be a welcome addition to the community!