Infidelity in Russia - Ukraine

[ML]

понедельник, 3 января 2011 г.

The Cheating Cheaters of Moscow
How infidelity has become accepted and even expected in Russia.
By Julia Ioffe  Wednesday, Dec. 1, 2010, at 12:05 PM ET

"What Men Talk AboutWhat Men Talk About" A movie...

One evening in Moscow, Tanya (not her real name) found herself at a dinner table with a group of friends, most of them married couples. One of the men started to tell a story about the coda to a recent guys' night out. He'd stumbled home the next morning to his wife and two children�a 2-year-old and an infant�to find that he'd forgotten his underwear. Everyone at the dinner table, including the man's wife, laughed at the story: the hijinks!

Wandering spouses have become a common trope for the women of Moscow. "Men's environment here pushes them towards cheating," Tanya told me, adding that, these days, a boys' night out in Russia often involves prostitutes. Tanya and her friends are young, educated, upper-middle-class Muscovites, but talk to any woman in Moscow, and, regardless of age, education, or income level, she'll have a story of anything from petty infidelity to a parallel family that has existed for decades. Infidelity in Moscow has become "a way of life," as another friend of mine put it�accepted and even expected.

This is quite a shift, given that 20 years ago an affair was considered a career-wrecking scandal. But by 1998, a study showed that Russian men and women led their peers in 24 other countries in their willingness to engage in and approve of extramarital affairs. Since then, these attitudes have taken hold more deeply after a prolonged consumer boom that encourages Russians to indulge their whims and desires. What does this culture of infidelity look like, and what are the costs?

Any explanation begins with a basic cultural difference. When Christianity arrived here, in the 10th century, it landed in a peasant, agrarian culture that treated sex as a natural barnyard phenomenon. Russia's expanse was notoriously hard for the already disorganized church to govern, and so, when it came to sex, a sort of dichotomy of word and deed persisted well into the 19th century, more than in the West. Then came the Bolshevik Revolution, which rooted out the church and replaced it with a prudish, asexual model for behavior. Sex, once viewed as natural if vaguely sinful, ceased to exist altogether: "There is no sex in the Soviet Union," the saying went. Parents stopped having the birds-and-bees talk with their children, and men could be dragged in front of their local Party Committee or labor union and made to suffer professionally for infidelity.
Advertisement

But this was not a deeply entrenched new morality; it was a code of behavior that did not convincingly explain itself. Communist ideology�a political and economic view of the world�was not a good stand-in either. Why was sex a taboo topic for socialist citizens? Why was cheating on your wife amoral if Communism rejected traditional bourgeois norms? The Soviets answered only with prohibitions and contradictory rhetoric. Outwardly, the prudishness held into the late Soviet era: Sex remained a shameful, tasteless topic, and it was impossible for girls to buy condoms in stores. (This was when abortion was the most common form of birth control.) At the same time, studies showed that Soviets were having sex earlier, getting married later, and doing all the other things their Western, sexually liberated counterparts were doing, but without the debate to make sense of it. It was, once again, a new set of behaviors devoid of moral explanation.

This was the perfectly explosive mix that greeted the overnight arrival of market capitalism and the oil boom of the last decade. Suddenly, there was no one to forbid anything or to admonish anyone. Everything that could be had, was; one needed only the will to acquire it. All of this has thrown Moscow into a consumer-driven hedonism that would make an American mall rat blush. Everything is available and everything is for sale. Sex is just another pleasure product, like a bottle of Moet. A recent Russian movie, What Men Talk About, featured four middle-age men on a road trip discussing the burdens of married life and the pleasures�the necessity, even�of infidelity. "Why can't she understand that sex with my beloved, and sex with some other woman are two completely different activities," one of the men says, comparing the latter to sneaking baloney from the fridge in the middle of the night. The film was, of course, a hit.

As the movie showed, the liberation is more for men than for women. For all its modernity, Moscow has been the seat of resurgent Russian paternalism since the arrival of Putin and his conservative nationalist agenda. Since men are the ones carving up the pie and doling out the slices, the way to show you have lots of pie is to be able to afford (wine and dine, regale with gifts) more than one woman. A 30-year-old Muscovite named Lena told me that certain social circles don't accept her male banker friends if they don't have mistresses. "It's like having a Mercedes E Class," Lena explained. "If you can't measure up, if you can't afford it, you aren't welcomed. It's easier, I guess, when you have common interests." One middle-aged Muscovite who runs a successful business recently told me, "I don't know, maybe I'm a complete fool for not having a mistress like everyone else."

For the most part, Russian women shrug off the fooling around. It's seen as unavoidable and natural. Men are slaves to hormones. Why get worked up over that, or the weather? "My sister's husband cheats on her," says Tanya, of the underwear story. "She knows this for a fact, but she doesn't cheat on him. When I ask her why she stays with him she says, 'I'm going to split up with him over some nonsense? He'll get it out of his system and settle down.'" "Faithfulness in marriage is seen as something that is nice but unrealistic," says Moscow sociologist Irina Tartakovskaya. She points out that if women don't really expect it of their husbands, they can pre-empt feelings of shock and betrayal.

Women also put up with infidelity because there are simply more of them. Since World War II, when the Soviets lost 27 million people, there have been real or perceived shortages of men in Russia, who have one of the lowest life expectancies in the developed and developing worlds�age 62, compared with 78 in the United States. There are nearly 10 percent fewer men than women here between the ages of 15 and 64. In the aftermath of World War II, a single man could father children with multiple women because it was the only way for many women to start families. Sixty-five years later, even perfectly sculpted Russian women talk about the fierce competition for a mate. (This is also how they explain why they are always dressed to the nines.) "Men are not afraid to lose their women here," a 23-year-old Muscovite named Olga told me. "But for a woman, who the hell knows if you'll ever find another one?" This recalls a Billie Holiday-esque traditional Russian women's saying, "He may be bad, but he's mine."

Accepting infidelity doesn't neutralize the harm it can do, however. Three of my Russian girlfriends, all attractive women under 30, are caught up in the attendant misery. One friend has a boyfriend who has lived with her but vacationed with his wife and kids for years. When she first found out he was married, he proposed divorcing his wife and marrying her. He didn't do it. When she brought up the subject, he said he'd been joking. Years later, she has given up on kicking him out or fighting with him. "I don't even know what I want anymore," she told me. Another friend dated a man for months who said he was single. When she discovered he was married, he too said he'd get a divorce. This time, the guy meant it, but my friend soon found out that he was getting remarried in two days' time to a different woman. She went on seeing him for months, including on his wedding night. I have my own tale: I was once propositioned by a newlywed man with a 6-month-old child. When I protested that I was not a home wrecker, he reassured me that his home wouldn't be wrecked, whatever we did together. (I refused.)

Tanya, for her part, couldn't take the knowledge that her husband was cheating on her. She divorced him even though she is 30 and has a child, which makes a woman essentially unmarriageable in Russia. Lena has taken a more subtle and typical approach. She'd asked her boyfriend at the start of their relationship if he had other women. He'd said no and ardently pursued her. Then she found out he was married and had two children. Instead of breaking up with him, though, Lena decided to "turn the tables," as she puts it, by holding him at arm's length but not cutting him off entirely. "There is a reason I'm having this experience, and I will obviously be able to learn from it," Lena says. "So I have decided that I am not his lover. He is my lover." He still talks about marrying her. When he does, she just shows him where she has changed his name in her phone to "Traitor."

http://www.slate.com/id/2276071/pagenum/all/#p2

[vwrw]

Male’s infidelity was the major reason why I did not get married in Russia.  The men I dated in Russia were good in all respects except cheating.  None of them drunk or fight. All of them were educated, successful, smart, and polite. They cleaned their flats, cooked, and even ironed their clothes.  But they all were cheaters. This fact probably could ruin my self-confidence if I did not work among wealthy and powerful men and had no opportunity to observe them on regular basis. Observing that 92% of them cheated regardless of what kind of wife they had helped me understand that problem was not in wives themselves or what they did but in men’s attitude toward infidelity. By age of 21, I came to the following conclusions: if I marry someone complying most of my preferences, the probability that he will cheat on me is almost 100%. If I accepted infidelity as a norm, it would eat me inside and make me miserable; if I objected it, I would be divorced and be lonely by age 45, the latest. If I marry unsuccessful men, the probability that he will cheat on me is low (at least all the time while he continue to be financially unsuccessful), but being unaffected by the instinct to reproduction, I could not find reason why would I marry a loser.

I think male’s infidelity is mostly problem of upper and upper-middle-class of RM. If I was asked to guess what % of low- middle-class male cheat, I would say no more than 35%.

First time I visited America when I was 24y.o.. Once seeing how AM treated their women in airport, shopping centers, parks, museums and other places where I could observe them and how my ex –fiancée’s male family members treated their female family members, I was lost for RM. Ever since I avoided being in relationship with RM. 

[vwrw]

"Men are not afraid to lose their women here," a 23-year-old Muscovite named Olga told me. "But for a woman, who the hell knows if you'll ever find another one?" This recalls a Billie Holiday-esque traditional Russian women's saying, "He may be bad, but he's mine."

I agree with Olga... RM seem less afraid to lose their women especially when women have become older then 4O. AM seem to value their women more than RM do.

[GoodOlBoy]

I think male’s infidelity is mostly problem of upper and upper-middle-class of RM.

I respectfully disagree VWRW.
From what little I have observed in Russia and DAY to DAY here in Sunny Isles Beach, FL (a Russian/Ukrainian community) in the last 3 years, there is no doubt in my mind that the Russian men are absolutely spoiled by their Mothers and Babushkas.
The RM's behavior is "generally" condoned by the Russian women and he is bred to believe he has a sense of "entitlement" in this world when it comes to the female gender.
RM are definitely NOT taught to respect women and marriage as we are here in the GoodOl' USA (probably the whole "Christianity thingy".....you know like going to church, respecting God and the 10 commandments, etc.).
So I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of Russian women.
JMO.

GOB

[possum]

So, was it the infidelity of RM or the way they treat their women in public that made you fall in love with America, vwrw?

Based on what I've heard from female visitors to the FSU, Russian men tend to be very gentleman-like in demeanor at least at the stage where they're still courting their female companion.. We all know how that changes after marriage on both sides of the Atlantic.

[Shadow]

As usual the main difference is that in Russia things are acceptable to be told more openly.

Maried Western Men will of course never cheat which is why the adult clubs and prostitution survives on the unmarried men who are not in a serious relationship alone.  

What deserves more respect, a relationship where a couple can overcome such a issue and are able to laugh about it, or one where things have to remain hidden while both sides know what happens ?

[possum]

I agree with Olga... RM seem less afraid to lose their women especially when women have become older then 4O. AM seem to value their women more than RM do.

Then how come there are so many older and out-of-shape AM looking for slender Russian hotties?. What's wrong with American women over 40? 

[vwrw]

Then how come there are so many older and out-of-shape AM looking for slender Russian hotties?. What's wrong with American women over 40? 

 Nothing is wrong with American women over 40. They are just busy amusing themselves with younger and in shape AM. 

[possum]

Nothing is wrong with American women over 40. They are just busy amusing themselves with younger and in shape AM. 

Is that the excuse du jour? There are so many, I can't keep track..

[Boethius]

Infidelity is common in the West as well, though.  It's just that it is hidden.

This is quite a shift, given that 20 years ago an affair was considered a career-wrecking scandal.

That's not exactly true, nor is the "historical explanation".  

It is true, the Bolsheviks were prudish, and it is also true that if one was a party member, an affair was a career wrecking scandal.  Yet, Brezhnev had mistresses, and it was not unknown, if you happened to be in downtown Kyiv at night, to see middle aged party officials with voluptuous party girls who were not their wives.

Although people would shun those who they knew were having affairs, from what I saw, affairs were as common as in the West.  They were more apt to be discovered, though, because lovers couldn't meet in hotels.  

Sex remained a shameful, tasteless topic

Untrue.  Way more open than in the West.

It was impossible for girls to buy condoms in stores.

It was, for the most part, impossible for anyone to buy condoms in stores, though there were sporadic supplies, but those that did exist had the quality of a GLAD bag.  When I travelled back and forth, I used to bring condoms, which my husband distributed to his workmates.  Of course, most of them were drunkards, and within a day, we'd see those condoms being sold at Bessarabia for 3 rubles a pop.

[Boethius]

Then how come there are so many older and out-of-shape AM looking for slender Russian hotties?. What's wrong with American women over 40? 

They're old.

[GQBlues]

I've said in the past, and will say this again...there's no such thing as a partly poisoned well. RMs are cheating WITH women and like the article suggests, it appears being Ms. Comfort vs. being alone and without a man, is the lesser evil of the two for FSUWs.

This flies in the face of the other thread about sexual harassment. If RWs feel they need to make a stand against this male bravado, it most definitely have to start with the women themselves.

But there's a part of me that agrees with Shadow's statement. Infidelity is prevalent anywhere. Don't ever believe all or most happily married AWs are happily married AWs. Women are far weaker in this department than men are generally.

[vwrw]

So, was it the infidelity of RM or the way they treat their women in public that made you fall in love with America, vwrw?

The infidelity of RM was the reason why I did not get married one of my ex RM. My observations of how AM treated their women was third important cause of why I fell in love with America. I do not want to say, of course, that all AM are good gentlemen and all RM are bad; however the % of men deserving my admiration much higher here in America than back home in Russia.

[possum]

Funny how you all put all the blame on the men who cheat and not the women they cheat WITH.. There are plenty of RW who are willing to have an affair with a married man, whether they are married themselves or not.

[GoodOlBoy]

Infidelity is prevalent anywhere.

I completely agree!
Just ask Hillary (Clinton). :evil:

GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

I do not want to say, of course, that all AM are good gentlemen and all RM are bad; however the % of men deserving my admiration much higher here in America than back home in Russia.

My RW has a good job (Comptroller) and comes in contact with all kinds of AM, she says the same thing as you.

GOB

[possum]

The infidelity of RM was the reason why I did not get married one of my ex RM. My observations of how AM treated their women was third important cause of why I fell in love with America. I do not want to say, of course, that all AM are good gentlemen and all RM are bad; however the % of men deserving my admiration much higher here in America than back home in Russia.

Haha.. I got you to admit you are in love with America.. So, how do AM get around the 'no helping a lady out in public' rule that's been imposed by the feminist movement?. I know a lot of men will think twice before holding a door for a woman for fear of 'humiliating' her..

[GQBlues]

I do not want to say, of course, that all AM are good gentlemen and all RM are bad; however the % of men deserving my admiration much higher here in America than back home in Russia.

My only caveat to that VWRW is, by percentages and only IMO, RMs largely function in an environment where the women are struck with social dynamics not existent with AWs to a huge degree. If given the same type of liberties, or availabilities, afforded RMs in Russia...American men will easily trip over each other with as much fervor and frequency.

Heck, most of them can hardly get a decent date for dinner as it is, let alone amass lores of mistresses.

[Misha]

I know a lot of men will think twice before holding a door for a woman for fear of 'humiliating' her..

Who are these men? Maybe things are different in the USA (but I doubt it) but I have never had any problems with opening doors for women (and men). Just basic politeness and kindness 

[Boethius]

Haha.. I got you to admit you are in love with America.. So, how do AM get around the 'no helping a lady out in public' rule that's been imposed by the feminist movement?. I know a lot of men will think twice before holding a door for a woman for fear of 'humiliating' her..

I think this depends very much on where you live.  When I've travelled to big cities in the US, you won't have the door opened for you, but in smaller centres, it's not a big deal.  Women hold doors open for men, too.  I often hold the door for fathers with babies.

My husband always holds the door open, it's just ingrained in him.  No one has ever bitten his head off.  

[possum]

Who are these men? Maybe things are different in the USA (but I doubt it) but I have never had any problems with opening doors for women (and men). Just basic politeness and kindness 

That was something a very good (female) friend of mine told me who lives in the US.. I believe her because I've read stuff like that on relationship forums.

[possum]

My husband always holds the door open, it's just ingrained in him.  No one has ever bitten his head off.  

That's because women want to be women regardless of where they live.. It's the men, well some men, who are afraid of the militant feminists that are the problem.. At least that seems to be the general opinion on some of the forums I've read lately..

[I/O]

I open doors for women and couldn't care less what anyone thinks but back to the subject proper, if RW didn't open legs (other than to their own), RM couldn't cheat. It ain't all onesided people and to believe otherwise is naive at best.

[Boethius]

No, from what I observed, it definitely wasn't one sided. 

[OlgaH]

I know a lot of men will think twice before holding a door for a woman for fear of 'humiliating' her..

or maybe some of them just don't want to be involved in a "love triangle"