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Author Topic: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?  (Read 7444 times)

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Offline Henry

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Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« on: January 05, 2011, 02:43:52 PM »
If a man moves to the FSU  to be with his woman and he could live anywhere, would you  advise him to live in a big city, a small town or the country and why? I understand that no man is an island and one should at least have a cafe nearby... and a bank.  ;D Some of you will demand a boutique as well.  ;D

In the final analysis, I think it is the woman who decides where they live, but it will be interesting to see the various points of view.


Offline Nat

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 03:01:24 PM »
If a man moves to the FSU  to be with his woman and he could live anywhere, would you  advise him to live in a big city, a small town or the country and why? I understand that no man is an island and one should at least have a cafe nearby... and a bank.  ;D Some of you will demand a boutique as well.  ;D

In the final analysis, I think it is the woman who decides where they live, but it will be interesting to see the various points of view.

Obviously, the man will get to live where the women he's gonna marry lives ;) So he won't have a choice really. But speaking of the places where it's better to live - it depends on a person. If you like modern cities and want them to be more like European ones, you should choose capitals. If you like usual FSU way of living with all its advantages and disadvantages, and you're gonna learn the language, then you can live in towns. Most villages are run down, so you must really love nature to live there.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 03:03:15 PM by Nat »

Offline pitbull

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 03:37:19 PM »
If a man moves to the FSU  to be with his woman and he could live anywhere, would you  advise him to live in a big city, a small town or the country and why? I understand that no man is an island and one should at least have a cafe nearby... and a bank.  ;D Some of you will demand a boutique as well.  ;D

In the final analysis, I think it is the woman who decides where they live, but it will be interesting to see the various points of view.



It depends on how much money the guy has.

For the same money you'd pay for an apartment in Moscow, you will buy three houses in a small town or like 10 collective farms in the country
Be the person that your dog thinks you are

Offline Shadow

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 03:39:40 PM »
Get me the farm and a helicopter.  8)
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline dbneeley

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 03:04:19 AM »
While obviously not a lady--FSUW or otherwise--if it were practical, I'd most probably opt to live in Evpatoria or even perhaps somewhere along the Black Sea cost in Bulgaria.

David

Offline Aloe

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 03:30:31 AM »
In a gated community right outside Moscow should be ok. But then i need a car too :P

Offline Kuna

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 06:05:01 AM »
In a gated community right outside Moscow should be ok. But then i need a car too :P

A car and a driver I assume?   8)

Offline mrs.Shadow

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2011, 02:50:47 AM »
Hello :)

I am from Moscow, but I do not suggest the families to live in Moscow. If there are enough money - better smaller cities and towns. It is IMHO. Small cities - smaller problems. Better air, less criminals, lower prices.
My family lives in Samara - what a great city!
And I myself wanted to move to Sochi when it was cheap and not popular. I tried to get a credit to buy a land there 15 years ago.  :D But nobody supported me.  :D
When I read experiences I think I came from another planet or from future  :D

Offline Blues Fairy

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2011, 07:51:22 AM »
I very much dislike what Russia has become, so the answer is - nowhere.

Offline Chicagoguy

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 08:07:56 AM »
My wife doesn't/won't read RWD so I will answer for her. She would move back to Cheboksary, Russia in a heartbeat if I would go also. I won't. Her father even offered to help pay for a flat for us which is really sweet of him [ he is 86 ].

Offline JR

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 09:47:15 AM »
My exwife related to me that when it came time to retire her grandmother made the decision to retire to Krasnodar. Granny's hubby was a general in the army and though they could have chosen Moscow she was afraid of the ladies chasing him.
Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else :)

Offline acctBill

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 01:16:31 PM »
My wife has lived in several countries in the west over the last 20 years.  Most of the places she has liked and a few she has loved, she'd never permanently move back to Russia.  She loves visiting her family but live in Moscow permanently, never.  I should also add that 4 members of her extended family now live in the UK and will probably never return to Russia to live.

Offline ECOCKS

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 02:09:46 PM »
I asked my wife.

She wants as many of our family out as we can manage and is talking with family members regarding this.

In terms of opportunity, education, comfort and security she cannot imagine anyone preferring to remain.

When dealing with our older family members it is clear the attachment is emotional rather than qualitative.
Pick and choose carefully among the advice offered and consider the source carefully. PM, Skype or email if you care to chat or discuss

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 01:41:39 PM »
Since I've already talked to my wife about this, I would move to a big city and live on the outskirts close to the metro. Living in the city has a lot of inconveniences and also higher chances to make a foreignier to the country hate his experience.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline ML

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 09:55:19 PM »
Since I've already talked to my wife about this, I would move to a big city and live on the outskirts close to the metro. Living in the city has a lot of inconveniences and also higher chances to make a foreignier to the country hate his experience.

But the farther you get from the big city, the more you will stick out like a sore thumb.
It may actually make it more uncomfortable for you.

Foreign students studying in USA generally feel more comfortable in big city vs small college towns because the natives in big cities are more used to seeing foreigners and pay no attention to them one way or the other.

Same will happen going the other way.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2011, 11:54:55 AM »
But the farther you get from the big city, the more you will stick out like a sore thumb.
It may actually make it more uncomfortable for you.

Foreign students studying in USA generally feel more comfortable in big city vs small college towns because the natives in big cities are more used to seeing foreigners and pay no attention to them one way or the other.

Same will happen going the other way.

Actually, my experience has been the opposite. They know I'm not from the village but I've been asked if I'm from Georgia. No, not that Georgia. The other Georgia. And I don't feel I stick out like a sore thumb. People go by their ways and don't bother me at all. I go to the local kiosks and buy incidentals that my family may need at the time with no hassle. As a matter of fact, my wife says the only time she sees some of the ladies behind the counter smile is when I go there to buy something.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline dbneeley

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2011, 12:14:11 PM »
I agree with Muzh, actually.

We live in a suburban area of Donetsk--nearly to the Southeast edge of the city, in fact. I have never been bothered here, and I frequent both the local rinok and the various stores in our area as well as taking the buses to the city center.

Our neighbors, I'm sure, all know I am an American--word travels fast about any sort of unusual happening, after all. However, I have never been bothered in the least and on several occasions various neighbors have been quite helpful to me.

We don't live in a particularly wealthy area, either--our flat is in a five story building so common over here.

There is little chance that a Westerner living here would go unnoticed, although blending in while moving around and not speaking is possible for many of us.

David

Offline ECOCKS

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 03:38:27 PM »
On reflection, I'd have to say that if we HAD to live in Ukraine, it would be the home we prepared in Kremenchuk, Poltavska Oblast, population 230,000. It would be fine with me and livable with our present income and assets except for the potential medical issues.

It's a 6th floor apartment with elevator a downstairs garage and we are the first owners so it's setup the way we want it. The people are reasonable, no better or worse than other Ukrainians and there's a McDonald's down the street along with a few cafes to keep me occupied. Internet is stable and that pretty much does it for me.

Pick and choose carefully among the advice offered and consider the source carefully. PM, Skype or email if you care to chat or discuss

Offline mies

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2011, 10:13:31 PM »
If a man moves to the FSU  to be with his woman and he could live anywhere, would you  advise him to live in a big city, a small town or the country and why? I understand that no man is an island and one should at least have a cafe nearby... and a bank.  ;D Some of you will demand a boutique as well.  ;D

In the final analysis, I think it is the woman who decides where they live, but it will be interesting to see the various points of view.

a big city (population 1'000'000 and above): expensive, heavy traffic, better to live in downtown to save time on transportation, relative anonymity in the huge crowd of other city-people. But more opportunities for employment and cultural life - may be crucial for younger and professionally active women. More opportunities for good education for children - will be critical if a woman is not past her reproductive age. Better access to healthcare.
Full access to normal city infrastructure.

a small town (population 25'000?): everyone knows everyone else, neighborly atmosphere, slower pace of life, traffic is not a problem but the roads usually are (poor quality), few opportunities for primary and secondary education, little to none opportunities for post-secondary education (meaning the children would have to leave home once they graduate from high-school). Poor/limited access to healthcare (have to travel elsewhere if a serious medical help is needed, poor diagnostical opportunities). Few employment opportunities for woman, and at a low pay. On a good side - cost of life is lower than in a big city. Very limited access to cultural life.
Access to at least some infrastructure, normally centralized water supply and sewage are available, waste removal services usually are available. Heating may be centralized or not.

a village: in most cases - no sewage treatment, toilet is a pit in a wooden box in the backyard, no water supply - people bring (carry in hands) water in buckets from the well, as such - no shower/no bathing during wintertime at all, during summertime - people bathe in ponds/rivers or in hand-made rain-water collecting showers. May be no natural gas supplied, only electricity and radio infrastructure. that's it. 1 school, 1 cinema (if lucky), 1-2 stores with very basic inventory of "food and drug", any need beyond that would require a trip to the nearest small town. Roads are not paved - become mostly unusable during snow-melting springtime or rainy autumn. In many parts of the FSU - also unusable during wintertime due to heavy snow.
People live with/feed on what they raise in their garden or the feedstock they keep (chickens, goats, cows, etc). Maybe some basic hospital with 1 doctor and/or 1 general practitioner doctor, and few nurses. Heating - with wood or coal, individually arranged for each house. Atmosphere is very neighborly, up to being incestuous, heavy gossips and some witchcraft are normal part of life. :evil:
If you are not limited in funds - you can address some of the critical moments, such as install a water pump on a well, arrange a water-supply system for your house, put a boiler in house, make normal bathroom, etc. (and by the way: water from our wells is usually very basic, much more so than the tap water. Washing machines don't work well with it - even if you get a water pump, you will still need to get a very sophisticated water filter if you want to use washing machines. And even then - no guarantee that the machine would not stop functioning after few months of use.) Buy a large pickup truck to use during rainy season or wintertime. Get a large (or several) refrigerators to reduce the number of shopping trips to the nearest town. You will be always a "white crow" or a "black sheep" in this village, but your life would be at least bearable. Not a bad idea would be to befriend local police, and keep a rifle at home "just in case".

I hope this gives you some perspective on what would be preferred by women if they HAVE TO choose between your three options.  :popcorn:

I am describing Ukraine, have heard very similar facts about Russia, Belarus, and Moldova. Can't speak for more exotic countries like "-stans" but I imagine life in villages/countryside there can be even worse, given the specifics of the ancient shepherd's traditions.  
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 10:52:13 PM by mies »

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2011, 10:52:12 PM »
HAHA on your "zadrepane selo" description, mies.  But in Central Ukraine, village roads are mostly paved. ;D
Quote
Atmosphere is very neighborly, up to being incestuous, heavy gossips

Yes, someone here posted about how a divorced woman's mother didn't want her daughter staying with her - only her son in law.  I assumed it was to hide the divorce from the "chorna rota" babas in the village.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline mies

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2011, 10:54:34 PM »
HAHA on your "zadrepane selo" description, mies.  But in Central Ukraine, village roads are mostly paved. ;D
Yes, someone here posted about how a divorced woman's mother didn't want her daughter staying with her - only her son in law.  I assumed it was to hide the divorce from the "chorna rotas" in the village.

well, I picked extreme examples of the range. Apparently there are many more milder options in the middle of the range ))))
and yes- this is exactly what I was describing "zadrypane selo" :D
specific two villages that I had on my mind when writing this description are actually located in central Ukraine. There are 1-2 paved roads - usually the ones which are used for bus. But even they are mostly unusable during spring-winter-autumn due to poor quality of pavement and other factors mentioned earlier.

I have not heard previously about "chorna rota", but maybe because there were no divorcees in the villages that I have personal knowledge of.
In the village my father grew up at, people basically would go to the "good witch"/healer or the "bad witch" as often as they go to church. In one appalling example, parents took their son who fell from the tree (about 5 meter high) to the healer instead of taking him to doctor. The healer performed some "magic rituals" on poor child, and sent the family home. The parents waited another 3 days at home before taking their child to the hospital. The child died few hours later in the hospital. At that point it was impossible to save him. It turned out the child had heavy internal bleeding, crashed liver and other organs. There were no sanctions against the healer nor the parents.
When I was a child and was visiting my grandma - she was regularly finding and getting rid of some weird objects (knives, forks, needles, etc) that apparently were brought by some crazy neighbor women to my grandma's house or garden.
The level of gossiping was unimaginable.
When my grandma died, after the burial ceremony her friends, neighbors and relatives were invited for the dinner to her house. Most of the items that were used in the post-mortem manipulations with the body have disappeared within 2 hours from the house. Not clear who took them. Yet in the village people believe these objects have magic properties and can be used in rituals. I have cognitive dissonance when I see this is still happening in 21s century, in country with high level of education, industrialization, and overall civilization, and is done by people who claim themselves to be devoted Christians.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 11:13:25 PM by mies »

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2011, 12:33:36 AM »
I have not heard previously about "chorna rota", but maybe because there were no divorcees in the villages that I have personal knowledge of.

It might be Kyiv slang, not limited to divorces.  You know the attitudes of some babas sitting on the benches. ;)

Quote
In the village my father grew up at, people basically would go to the "good witch"/healer or the "bad witch" as often as they go to church. In one appalling example, parents took their son who fell from the tree (about 5 meter high) to the healer instead of taking him to doctor. The healer performed some "magic rituals" on poor child, and sent the family home. The parents waited another 3 days at home before taking their child to the hospital. The child died few hours later in the hospital. At that point it was impossible to save him. It turned out the child had heavy internal bleeding, crashed liver and other organs. There were no sanctions against the healer nor the parents.
When I was a child and was visiting my grandma - she was regularly finding and getting rid of some weird objects (knives, forks, needles, etc) that apparently were brought by some crazy neighbor women to my grandma's house or garden.
The level of gossiping was unimaginable.
When my grandma died, after the burial ceremony her friends, neighbors and relatives were invited for the dinner to her house. Most of the items that were used in the post-mortem manipulations with the body have disappeared within 2 hours from the house. Not clear who took them. Yet in the village people believe these objects have magic properties and can be used in rituals. I have cognitive dissonance when I see this is still happening in 21s century, in country with high level of education, industrialization, and overall civilization, and is done by people who claim themselves to be devoted Christians.

I just knew of one witch story, from around Kyiv.  One woman would always help girls who couldn't get pregnant.  After her "help", the longest they would wait for pregnancy was three months.

My Baba was from Western Ukraine, and for her, a witch was something bad, she wouldn't go to one, but she was pretty superstitious.  We couldn't take our baby out of the house for a month after birth (wouldn't have anyway, it was mostly -30C), in case she was exposed to the "evil eye".  She used to walk around the house half the night, lighting candles and praying to the Virgin Mary.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2011, 07:47:51 AM »
HAHA on your "zadrepane selo" description, mies.  But in Central Ukraine, village roads are mostly paved. ;D
Yes, someone here posted about how a divorced woman's mother didn't want her daughter staying with her - only her son in law.  I assumed it was to hide the divorce from the "chorna rota" babas in the village.

Could very well be. I'll ask him when he returns.

Regarding the villages, my outlaws live south of the city of Kharkiv, about a 15 min drive to Freedom Square. Plenty of public transportation to get to the Metro. The "new" airport is about 10 minutes from their house.

The roads, if there are any, are in very bad conditions. Actually, more like a lunar landscape. However, the neighborhood they live in almost everyone has a car. They have sceptic and, of course, an outhouse. They get water from a well and have a tankless water heater. My next visit I'll try to get them a house water filtration system, that is, if they let me.

Edit: My spelling was attrocious.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 12:25:54 PM by Muzh »
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2011, 08:34:38 AM »
mies

Very enlightening. There is still pockets of places much like that in the U.S. or there was 20 years ago. At one time I lived and worked in Kentucky in the Appalachia Mountains and I knew of a number of "hollars" or actually Hollows that were very much as you described as villages in Ukraine. The living conditions and the mindsets there were quite the eye openers even for this "country boy" from the swamps of Georgia. Previously, I had only thought I came from some backwoods and there were plenty there. However, it did not compare to what I found in Kentucky.

Offline mies

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Re: Ladies, where in the FSU would you prefer to live?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2011, 10:44:53 AM »
Faux Pas - thank you for your story. I would imagine that similar ritualism could be found in the USA as well, but more so in ethnic communities. Will read more about Kentucky.

Boethius - all true. Superstitions are also strong.
I might have misunderstood the "chorna rota" term. If it means "black-mouth" - then it's "chornorota". "rota" - is a military unit, "rot" - is a mouth. But when you conjugate the nouns, you can get "rota" as one of the forms of the word "rot".

I am not denying the possibility that some people may unusual skills or talents, or that some traditions may have sense, or could have had sense in the past centuries, for farmers and village people. But sometimes it's way too much.

 

 

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