What I Learned #2

[spectris]

OK, I tagged along with a group of guys doing a tour over the Holidays.  I took my friend (who just turned 40) and we spent the time between Christmas and New Years in Kyiv (see, doing better) using agencies and night clubs as the forums for meeting women and I learned some more about UW than my initial WOVO experience.  When I have time I will post a trip report because it was damn interesting.  However, this is what I think I’ve learned now after my second trip.
And I was in Kyiv remember (and over the Holidays) – a large, metropolitan city so it probably has no relevance to other smaller cities – just for perspective.

1.    Age.  Everyone is so interested in age on this board.  What I found out is if you meet in person (agency or nightclub) you can span a wide age gap if you have at least some minimal social skills and can actually speak to women.  You can see from my profile that I’m old and I don’t think I even met a woman over 40 the whole week I was there.  UW “seem” to much more open-minded about age than AW.
2.   Nightclubs.  Hate them or love them, but they are fun and apparently even old people can have a good time there.  With that said, if you are uncomfortable being in one in the US, it will be no different in Ukraine.  But the clubs are full of women wanting to have fun, the drinks are inexpensive and they stay open till 6:00 AM.  Maybe not the best place to find a wife, but…
3.   Agencies.  They are still viable and not necessarily bad despite what you might read here (imo).  In fact 2 of them in Kyiv (you can PM if you want my rec) were quite good and dead on each time.  And a couple that weren’t so good.  I met several women who were just what they represented themselves to be and the agency management was very honest and knowledgeable.  BUT, don’t spend a lot of time online beforehand since things are always in flux and most of the data is really old – just go in person to the agency and spend an hour – it’s much less time consuming and far more accurate.
4.   UW. are still not that much different than the AW (I paid more attention this time).  Sorry, it’s just true.
5.   Tequila House.  A Mexican food restaurant in Kyiv that has excellent (by TX standards even) fajitas and margaritas – just an fyi...
6.   KBP.  The new terminal at KBP is 150% better than the “old” terminal I went through last time.  (TRAVEL TIP HERE – be one of the last people on the transfer bus from the plane to the terminal so that you are the first person to be at Immigration).  From the time I landed till I was through Immigration, picked up my bags and was in my car was less than 30 minutes!  Amazing for any country.
7.   Boots.  Buy some good comfy boots if you go in the winter because there is snow and slush and rain and you walk a LOT.
8.   SKYPE.  True that all women in Kyiv have internet access (same as here or better btw), but most women don’t seem to like to email (based on a sample size of 25+), they like to SKYPE (voice or video), but emails require dictionaries, confidence, etc.  Talking is better for them.
9.   IPhones.  Unlocked (jail-broken, whatever) iPhones are common – surprising how many people had them.  I will have one next time I go there believe me since texting is the communication of choice.
10.   TGI Fridays.  If you use agencies you will soon know where it is!  Thankfully the same franchisee has an Italian food restaurant attached that is actually very good and there are 50 other places to eat within 15 minutes walk.
11.   English.  If a woman admits to ANY English skills you can communicate with her without a translator (which I would never consider btw).  Many women learn English in school but never have the opportunity to speak it, but if you are patient and communicative – you will have no problems.
12.   UW (again).  Huge generalization here, but most of the women/girls I met “say” they do not even date Ukrainian or Russian men.  Young or old (old is defined as 35+ btw), it was pretty unanimous that they were content to not have a SO or only dated (infrequently) men from Europe, US, Australia, etc.   Australia seemed to be the most common btw – kind of surprised me.
13.    Relocation.  I only met 2 women (girls) that openly admitted they were leaving the Ukraine no matter what it takes.  Most women have comfortable or at least satisfying lives and it would take something (someone) special for them to leave all their family and friends.  You (we) are just an option for them.

OK, I could go on and on and I really need to post a trip report because it was an amazing adventure (agency insight, restaurants, women’s perspectives of foreigners, police bribes, whatever).  I will as soon as I have time.  At the end of the day though, I do believe this is still a viable option, but it’s NOT a slam dunk for you (us).  The women are amenable and open minded to westerners, but they don’t want to trade one set of problems for another. 

[Eduard]

you got lots of it right, and in regard to your points 12 and 13 - this is one of the reasons I prefer to search (and have a much better rate of success) in Russia. I still go to Ukraine 2 or 3 times a year because some of my guys insist on searching there, but I do my best to convince them to also think "outside the box" and search and visit women in Russia as well. The vast majority of the time it works out that they wind up with a woman from Russia, not Ukraine. There are several factors that make finding a woman to marry in Ukraine much harder than in Russia in my experience.
Just so you know, my dad was born and raised in Ukraine and my mom's mom also comes from Ukraine. Although I was born in Russia I've been exposed to both countries/cultures from my early childhood. Still have family in both countries, so I'm just making an objective statement based on my personal experience (which is pretty significant).

[Lily]

 Re point 12, it seems to me that because of no visa regime for foreigners in Ukraine, too many people come to Ukraine for bride seeking, therefore the local women become more picky in terms of their future country. For those who are attached to their families, Europe may look better because of its relative proximity to home.

Australia as their point of interest would be also a surprise for me! This country is one of the few desirable destinations with an immigration system which makes an independent skilled migration relatively open. A number of people therefore consider Australia for eventual immigration.

Thanks for your interesting observations, spectris! Most of your observations are, in my opinion, true!

[Gator]

Spectris,

Thanks for sharing. 

You did a WNVM trip!  (N for None).

Actually, it is a good alternative.  You might spend more because an agency will charge for each date, yet you will meet more women than with a letter campaign.   For sure your time invested will be less than a letter campaign (and "time is money").

If an agency knows its women, and if your requirements are reasonable, the agency can hook you up with many dates that are not mismatches.  I met a couple of men at Cindy's Agency in Dnepropetrovsk doing exactly what you did. 

[mendeleyev]

Nice report! In agreement with Ed and Lily on their points and with an observation regarding #1. In-country, unless it's a "sponsorship" or a marriage to a very wealthy man, you don't locally see many long term relationship/marriages with large age gaps.

A nightclub is a popular setting where Ukrainian and Russian ladies meet potential sponsors. The single girls would know whether the single local guys had the means for a sponsorship, perhaps why girls might appear unimpressed with the local boys. Were I single, the alarm lights and back of the head sirens would be at full blast if I was getting the kind of attention from young gorgeous girls if the reality was that out on the street such a response wasn't a part routine part of life.


#7 (Boots). Excellent advice.

I'd add that especially in the northern areas, and Russia, there are some tips on a winter coat too. I buy my winter coats in Moscow as they are designed for the elements. Keys: button all the way to the top. Many western sold coats have a v-neck design which although admittedly stylish offers very little protection of the throat areas in harsh climates. Length should be long because the biting winds and blowing snows can send chills thru the lower body if the coat is too short. Finally, a coat should "breathe" in such a climate. Some coats (leather, etc) risky performing poorly as body moisture is trapped under clothing because the coat doesn't breathe, threatening colds and pneumonia with the constant changes in body temperature as one goes in stores, back outside, in the metro, back outside, etc. A heavy wool coat breathes among the best of them.

[Eduard]

...with the constant changes in body temperature as one goes in stores, back outside, in the metro, back outside, etc.

I truly hate that part!

[ML]

1.    Age.  Everyone is so interested in age on this board.  What I found out is if you meet in person (agency or nightclub) you can span a wide age gap if you have at least some minimal social skills and can actually speak to women. 

I agree

4.   UW. are still not that much different than the AW (I paid more attention this time).  Sorry, it’s just true.

I agree if you are talking about general behavior, thought process, desires, etc.  But big difference in their body shapes . . . for the vast majority of them.

8.   SKYPE.  True that all women in Kyiv have internet access

Come on now!  Such statements with 'all' in them cannot be true, and I know for a fact this statement is not true.

9.   IPhones.  Unlocked (jail-broken, whatever) iPhones are common – surprising how many people had them.  I will have one next time I go there believe me since texting is the communication of choice.

You do not need an IPhone for texting.  Almost all mobile phones will text.  However, of course, it makes it much easier to have a phone with full keyboard.  There are a hundred or more models now that have full keyboards that are a much more cost effective than an IPhone.

11.   English.  If a woman admits to ANY English skills you can communicate with her without a translator (which I would never consider btw).  Many women learn English in school but never have the opportunity to speak it, but if you are patient and communicative – you will have no problems.

Again too general of a statement.  The phenomena still exists that for some reason those with the least English skills claim the most, while those that are nearly perfect will tell you that they don't know  English very well.  The more you  know, the more you realize you don't know.  Not only will you not 'have no problems'  ; you can have a ton of problems with any given woman.  It's always a crap shoot.

12.   UW (again).  Huge generalization here, but most of the women/girls I met “say” they do not even date Ukrainian or Russian men. 

I know nothing about this because I never discuss my past/current dates, and never ask the women this info either.  I haven't had any that wanted to volunteer much other than to say things like they hadn't had a date in X months or years.  But no indication that they didn't want; more likely they just aren't asked (talking about the over 40 group).

13.    Relocation.  I only met 2 women (girls) that openly admitted they were leaving the Ukraine no matter what it takes.  Most women have comfortable or at least satisfying lives and it would take something (someone) special for them to leave all their family and friends.  You (we) are just an option for them.

I tend to agree.  Never really dated any FSU woman who seemed desperate to leave.

[Daveman]

OK, I tagged along with a group of guys doing a tour over the Holidays.  I took my friend (who just turned 40) and we spent the time between Christmas and New Years in Kyiv (see, doing better) using agencies and night clubs as the forums for meeting women and I learned some more about UW than my initial WOVO experience.  When I have time I will post a trip report because it was damn interesting.  However, this is what I think I’ve learned now after my second trip.
And I was in Kyiv remember (and over the Holidays) – a large, metropolitan city so it probably has no relevance to other smaller cities – just for perspective.
...

4.   UW. are still not that much different than the AW (I paid more attention this time).  Sorry, it’s just true.
....
12.   UW (again).  Huge generalization here, but most of the women/girls I met “say” they do not even date Ukrainian or Russian men.  Young or old (old is defined as 35+ btw), it was pretty unanimous that they were content to not have a SO or only dated (infrequently) men from Europe, US, Australia, etc.   Australia seemed to be the most common btw – kind of surprised me.

Not bad Spectris, you'll find that your interpretations will grow and expand the more/longer you are associated with FSUW.  I will comment only on 4 and 12.

4> At the outset, this is true. Not a whole helluva lot of difference when meeting and initially dating -- however, the more time you spend together in a relationship and especially if you dwell in a cohabitational environment for any length of time, you will come to the conclusion that your initial impression could be slightly erroneous!    There are indeed differences - some subtle, some in your face, some off the wall, etc.. but there really are.

I break it down in this simplistic way (so my feeble male mind can extend my survival one day at a time).
a) reactionary behaviors - those "responses" based on a man's behavior or, in other words, "womanly triggers"... not really so different in the "women are women everywhere" thought.  What attracts, turns them on, makes them happy, etc. Nah, not really all that different, unless of course you include "what they do when pissed off" as a reactionary behavior to men's actions.. well then in that case... all bets are off... but I choose to group that with category B, which brings us to

b) assertive or initiatory behaviors - now it gets weird.  They are more prone to (sometimes quite bizarre) drama, pulling out all stops, having whatever pops into the mind fly out the oral orifice at, somehow, faster than the speed of the sound which carries it. There is no such thing as "disrespect" in a relationship... arguments can go absolutely no holds barred and then at the drop of a hat change to a mating sequence that will blow your mind and the argument forgotten (at least for that moment). 

IF you are right, and she is wrong, well, just remember that's impossible as it is against the Laws of FSU Adversarial Physics.. but if it does *appear* to be realistic, the argument just kinda goes away, evaporates, didn't happen... it is highly unlikely that you will ever hear something like "I'm sorry, I was completely wrong".. again.. against the LoFAP.

Certain male/female roles are more well defined and isolated, at least at the outset.. I think this is where that "Traditional" agency nonsense originates.

There are other differences that I just can't seem to find the words to describe, but, keep at this and you'll undoubtedly encounter them.

12>  I guess that could be true (that they SAY it anyway), but I don't really buy it.  Just by watching the behaviors of women in the proximity of ladies I have dated, there's quite a bit of recreational, um, pleasure going on and no shortage of willing participants. So, perhaps the key word there in their declaration is "date".  My guess is a lot of wives (and probably my own someday) have a few skeletons in the closet that just aren't discussed.  FSUW can blow one's mind sexually for sure... and there's usually a reason for that.. er.. practice makes perfect, eh?  There are reasons condoms, lubricant, etc are right there at the checkout registers along with the candy and breath spray (don't really think there are enough foreigners on the continent to warrant such a display, and I would bet the sales figures are mind bogglingly enormous).

Now, that being said, I'm certainly not insinuating that they are whores, or any other such provocative nonsense.. just that to think these women are not getting any action and waiting for a Knight to melt away the Chastity Belt is over the top naive.

Overall though, your first impressions mirror those I had after my first visit or so... but the more you experience, the more your perceptions expand and evolve.

[Gator]

Daveman,

My opinion as well.  To elaborate,

Just by watching the behaviors of women in the proximity of ladies I have dated, there's quite a bit of recreational, um, pleasure going on and no shortage of willing participants. 

Especially considering that their gynecologists recommend frequent sex ("use it or you will have health problems").

So, perhaps the key word there in their declaration is "date". 

An hour or so with your boinking buddy is not a "date" because possible marriage is not part of the equation.  Before accusing RW of slutty behavior, my understanding is that this sexual partnering  1) can endure for years and 2) is usually exclusive with just one person over those years.  My information comes from multiple, independent RW sources.  For example, one RW I know had such a relationship with a MD who was rather ordinary looking and not flattering.

[ML]

FSUW can blow one's mind sexually for sure... and there's usually a reason for that.. er.. practice makes perfect, eh? 

I have found that these women are not all that good at sex . . . initially.  This may be due to fact that their men are mostly the slam bang type and aren't that interested in development.  However, 'most' of the women are very willing to learn and then do seem to have more interest in sex than AW.

. . . just that to think these women are not getting any action and waiting for a Knight to melt away the Chastity Belt is over the top naive.

I think there is quite a bit of difference in 'action' depending on the age of the woman.  It is well known that the men there can and do have mistresses, and most are quite young relatively.  That means that the older the woman is, the less likely she is getting any 'action' either as a mistress, girlfriend or fiance.

[Boethius]

I have found that these women are not all that good at sex . . . initially.  This may be due to fact that their men are mostly the slam bang type and aren't that interested in development.  However, 'most' of the women are very willing to learn and then do seem to have more interest in sex than AW.

How many FSUM have you slept with to know they're all "slam bang" types, ML?

[JR]

Nice post Spectris )

[ML]

How many FSUM have you slept with to know they're all "slam bang" types, ML?

I didn't use the word 'all.'

And, as you already know, I got my info from the FSU women I have spent time with.

[Muzh]

4>
b)
IF you are right, and she is wrong, well, just remember that's impossible as it is against the Laws of FSU Adversarial Physics.. but if it does *appear* to be realistic, the argument just kinda goes away, evaporates, didn't happen... it is highly unlikely that you will ever hear something like "I'm sorry, I was completely wrong".. again.. against the LoFAP.

There is something you missed and may come in handy when you get married to a RW. If you are RIGHT and she is WRONG, YOU have to apologize, PERIOD  The last thing a husband will do is make her woman cry.

12>   My guess is a lot of wives (and probably my own someday) have a few skeletons in the closet that just aren't discussed. 

So will you.

When I married my wife I was NOT a virgin. There.

FSUW can blow one's mind sexually for sure... and there's usually a reason for that.. er.. practice makes perfect, eh? 

Right on the first and who cares on the second.

Now, that being said, I'm certainly not insinuating that they are whores, or any other such provocative nonsense.. just that to think these women are not getting any action and waiting for a Knight to melt away the Chastity Belt is over the top naive.

From where I sit, most of the FSU women have a rather different view of sex than the Americans. Sex is a normal flow of life, that's it. Here, well, by what other name were the Pilgrims known? The Puritans? It is still part of how this country is ruled.

You (in general) go to the FSU, Latin America, Europe and women will strut their womanhood shamelessly. Make up, tight fitting clothes, high heels, etc. I've heard may Americans refer to this as being sluts, whores, women of low moral, etc. The men will look, definitely and then turn around and say "What a slut." Case in point, not so long ago employees (male!!!) at a company in NYC filed a complaint with management because certain (Puertorican) woman was dressing provocatively. They showed pictures of the woman and not only God gave her this magnificent body, but there was nothing that she wore that looked bad on her. It didn't help that her BUSINESS suit (jacket and skirt) were form-fitting and she was wearing high heels. Or her designer sweater (no cleavage) was also thight-fitting.

So Daveman, this is by no means a stab at you. I'm talking about my experiences in general. (Just in case)  

Now, please keep this in mind when you go to the FSU.

[Boethius]

I didn't use the word 'all.'

And, as you already know, I got my info from the FSU women I have spent time with.

OK, a majority.  But do you really believe a woman who is bedding you is going to tell you she has had better lovers?

[Muzh]

OK, a majority.  But do you really believe a woman who is bedding you is going to tell you she has had better lovers?

Only if she wants to put the hurt on him.

[ML]

OK, a majority.  But do you really believe a woman who is bedding you is going to tell you she has had better lovers?

You are getting to far afield here.  I never mentioned anything about women saying I was a good lover, or better or worse than others they had.

My comment was: "I have found that these women are not all that good at sex . . . initially.  This may be due to fact that their men are mostly the slam bang type and aren't that interested in development.  However, 'most' of the women are very willing to learn and then do seem to have more interest in sex than AW."

Not that they didn't necessarily get some enjoyment from the slam bang, but it is a one and out process.  For the woman to enjoy the multiples that most are capable of, there needs to be some experiment and development work, which didn't much exist. 

And, in turn, since the women were used to the one and out process, they knew little about the various things that can be pleasing to the man.

I saw a survey once that listed average time of sex sessions in various countries.  Not all countries were listed.  But I remember that USA was in top 5 or so and Russia was in bottom 5 or so.  Can't find that survey, but the more Google knowledgeable people here can probably give us a reference.

I think Canada was number one or two, so maybe that's why you are happy with your situation.

[Boethius]

I'd hazard a guess I've heard more stories from UW than have you, and men, too, though hearsay through my husband.  Most of those women were young then, but are in about the age range of the women you are interacting with now.  I highly doubt ethnicity or culture has much to do with sexual practices or satisfaction, and believing otherwise is, IMHO, somewhat naive.

[Handycam72]

Great post Spectris.

 

The more I read this forum, I get the impression that AW are somewhat of a different species to European Women.  As people have described the differences between AW and FSUW, what is described as FSUW appears no different to any women I have met here in UK or Europe.

I sometimes wonder if this board should just drop the "Russian" from its title.

[Muzh]

Great post Spectris.

 

The more I read this forum, I get the impression that AW are somewhat of a different species to European Women.  As people have described the differences between AW and FSUW, what is described as FSUW appears no different to any women I have met here in UK or Europe.

I sometimes wonder if this board should just drop the "Russian" from its title.

A rose by any other name....?

[chivo]

4> At the outset, this is true. Not a whole helluva lot of difference when meeting and initially dating -- however, the more time you spend together in a relationship and especially if you dwell in a cohabitational environment for any length of time, you will come to the conclusion that your initial impression could be slightly erroneous!    There are indeed differences - some subtle, some in your face, some off the wall, etc.. but there really are.

Sounds like you’ve dated quite a few.  Anyone who has will agree wholeheartedly with you, as I do.

I break it down in this simplistic way (so my feeble male mind can extend my survival one day at a time).
a) reactionary behaviors - those "responses" based on a man's behavior or, in other words, "womanly triggers"... not really so different in the "women are women everywhere" thought.  What attracts, turns them on, makes them happy, etc. Nah, not really all that different, unless of course you include "what they do when pissed off" as a reactionary behavior to men's actions.. well then in that case... all bets are off... but I choose to group that with category B, which brings us to

b) assertive or initiatory behaviors - now it gets weird.  They are more prone to (sometimes quite bizarre) drama, pulling out all stops, having whatever pops into the mind fly out the oral orifice at, somehow, faster than the speed of the sound which carries it. There is no such thing as "disrespect" in a relationship... arguments can go absolutely no holds barred and then at the drop of a hat change to a mating sequence that will blow your mind and the argument forgotten (at least for that moment). 

IF you are right, and she is wrong, well, just remember that's impossible as it is against the Laws of FSU Adversarial Physics.. but if it does *appear* to be realistic, the argument just kinda goes away, evaporates, didn't happen... it is highly unlikely that you will ever hear something like "I'm sorry, I was completely wrong".. again.. against the LoFAP.

I’m glad you said this because it’s something that has been long overdue when you get to the subtle differences and why many foreign men will fail; they just don’t get the fact that you can’t treat these women exactly the same as AW when you want to start/build a relationship.

Matter of fact I would do certain things exactly the opposite of how I would in America. The mentality to me at times is just 180 degrees in the other direction. My theory goes back to language, how they (Russians) look at and describe life, and the man/woman relationship dynamics here, i.e. women, yes even beautiful women, are discarded like yesterday’s newspaper because another one just as pretty is waiting in the wings. It does strange things to the psyche of these women, believe me.

RW 40+ will be much more forgiving of any cultural/mentality differences because they have no to very low chance(s) of finding a man in Russia if they don't already have one.

Certain male/female roles are more well defined and isolated, at least at the outset.. I think this is where that "Traditional" agency nonsense originates.

There are other differences that I just can't seem to find the words to describe, but, keep at this and you'll undoubtedly encounter them.

12>  I guess that could be true (that they SAY it anyway), but I don't really buy it.  Just by watching the behaviors of women in the proximity of ladies I have dated, there's quite a bit of recreational, um, pleasure going on and no shortage of willing participants. So, perhaps the key word there in their declaration is "date".  My guess is a lot of wives (and probably my own someday) have a few skeletons in the closet that just aren't discussed.  FSUW can blow one's mind sexually for sure... and there's usually a reason for that.. er.. practice makes perfect, eh?  There are reasons condoms, lubricant, etc are right there at the checkout registers along with the candy and breath spray (don't really think there are enough foreigners on the continent to warrant such a display, and I would bet the sales figures are mind bogglingly enormous).

Now, that being said, I'm certainly not insinuating that they are whores, or any other such provocative nonsense.. just that to think these women are not getting any action and waiting for a Knight to melt away the Chastity Belt is over the top naive.

Overall though, your first impressions mirror those I had after my first visit or so... but the more you experience, the more your perceptions expand and evolve.

Agree, good stuff Dave.

[GQBlues]

Sex is simply just basic instincts. It has nothing to do with 'love', and there's certainly NO cultural distinction. Anyone saying there's a difference, you haven't gotten laid enough in life.

Oh the happy tangled web we weave....The Slam Bang moments, yum. Yeah, women hate that, LOL!

I can tell you women, regardless of nationality, social status, age, upbringing, would love nothing more than to be feasted by her man as though she's something he truly wants right here and now. It has no bearing with longetivity or even finesse. Hard, fast and spontaneous is a huge turn-on to every woman I have ever encountered in my life. ala a scene in the movie Basic Instinct with Michael Douglas and Jeanne Tripplehorn. Remember that? We're all adults here so if you don't remember, here it is...

I've yet to meet a woman who didn't get turned on with these kinds of experiences whether it's in a department store fitting room, public elevator, airplane, restrooms, your living room, in a park, etc....

This have very little to do with pleasing one another because you're in love, nor the measure of your love-making prowess or the Gomer Pyle perspective. LOL. This is just plain basic instinct at play.

[Gator]

RW 40+ will be much more forgiving of any cultural/mentality differences because they have no to very low chance(s) of finding a man in Russia if they don't already have one.
Agree, good stuff Dave.

I read that a lot at RWD, yet I don't always hear such from the 40-something RW.  I have been told (or observed) a variety of stories.  There are many RW as you described, yet many others don't lack for attention. 

   

[Eduard]

Matter of fact I would do certain things exactly the opposite of how I would in America. The mentality to me at times is just 180 degrees in the other direction. My theory goes back to language, how they (Russians) look at and describe life, and the man/woman relationship dynamics here, i.e. women, yes even beautiful women, are discarded like yesterday’s newspaper because another one just as pretty is waiting in the wings. It does strange things to the psyche of these women, believe me.

RW 40+ will be much more forgiving of any cultural/mentality differences because they have no to very low chance(s) of finding a man in Russia if they don't already have one.
Agree, good stuff Dave.

LOL, I can only imagine if I wrote that!    Oops...OK, I'm going back to the "Global warming" and my tomatoes thread now  :angel:

[chivo]

I read that a lot at RWD, yet I don't always hear such from the 40-something RW.  I have been told (or observed) a variety of stories.  There are many RW as you described, yet many others don't lack for attention. 

Of course there are some fine ladies 40+, but I would definitely put the percentage that don't get much attention at a much higher number. Gator I mean no disrespect to any woman but it is what it is. Matter of fact I find it rather sad because many of these women would be inundated with attention if they lived in the states. Lily is a prefect example of an attractive, intelligent quality women in her 30's even, who got little if any attention worth her time here in Moscow (in her own words BTW), yet is spoilt for choice in Toronto.

Thing is for someone like you who's age range is in that group, I consider it a big advantage for you to find a real gem that would/could be easily overlooked by the local men.

LOL, I can only imagine if I wrote that!    Oops...OK, I'm going back to the "Global warming" and my tomatoes thread now  :angel:

 
Do you disagree with what I wrote?