Anti-USA propaganda ? Or just plain sick...

[BC]

There is no evidence the Dr. Phil producers created the abuse.  Unless they edited the piece to add a child, or Beagley's words, it is the typical Western affliction of it's someone else's fault.

Boethius,

My personal experience is that this affliction is not unique to the West..

If anything happens in our house, it's always my fault - but we do get a good chuckle out of it.

Maybe lets just say that in the East, they may not blame something on someone else, but it is certainly not going to admit fault.

I think if someone asked this woman today if she was at some fault, she would admit that she is.  I have a gut feeling that is what will happen in court.  She will maintain she is not guilty of abuse but will admit having acted in a faulty manner and is seeking assistance.  That alone would work wonders for this family.

[Boethius]

I think if someone asked this woman today if she was at some fault, she would admit that she is.  I have a gut feeling that is what will happen in court.  She will maintain she is not guilty of abuse but will admit having acted in a faulty manner and is seeking assistance.  That alone would work wonders for this family.

I went and looked at the video again.  Not only is Beagley abusive, but she is ineffective as a disciplinarian.  The purported punishment is for lying, but in fact, the child is being punished because he can't remember why he pulled a "blue card".  Yeah, if you had that viper yelling in your face, you'd probably forget too.  Other punishments she inflicted included making the child do jumping jacks until he was exhausted.  The title of Dr. Phil's show was "Mothers Out of Control", and that certainly was an apt description here.

I disagree.  The child abuse charge is a misdemeanor, and yet, Beagley is challenging it.  That doesn't sound like someone who is contrite.  She will need to change her whole attitude to parenting, and possibly her personality, to deal with this child effectively.

[Rubicon]

Too lazy to inquire? The US ain't Kremlin yah know...if the info was fabricated, the Russians themselves will crying about it, LOL.  

edited to add:
Just as I thought, by now they have the name. It only took a second...

"...A representative from the Russian Consulate in Seattle traveled to Anchorage to visit the Beagleys and monitor the case. Andrey Bondarev said he didn't see any reason to remove the boys from the Beagleys' home...."

http://www.adn.com/2011/01/28/1673257/hot-sauce-wielding-mom-went-on.html

...and you're very welcome! LOL.

that information will cost you a bribe of $1000.00 Mrs. Shadow.

[ECOCKS]

No, but if after loading up the sauce she verbally threatened or physically forced the child to eat it it would be abusive.

I meant as part of his lunch or dinner BC, get with the program!

Let's think about this a minute.

So, if she puts hot sauce in his mouth then some idiots scream child abuse, yet if this was a video of the family eating an On The Border takeout meal and she put the same hot sauce on his burrito it would be eating dinner. Unless of course any parent who allows their children access to the family bottle of hot sauce is also stepping over the line into the realm of abusing the child. Then of course if it was the three week period in the FSU when the hot water was shut off he'd be taking a cold shower. Yes, yes, abusive parents are no different than abusive ethnic groups and governments! All should be consigned to the dust bin of history where their names can be use to describe such vile and heinous acts as mankind must universally deplore.

That is what's so funny about the sickos here who have so little grasp of reality in this situation.

[Rubicon]

There is no evidence the Dr. Phil producers created the abuse.  Unless they edited the piece to add a child, or Beagley's words, it is the typical Western affliction of it's someone else's fault.

there are 2,000 children murdered by their parents each year in Russia.  it is a typical Eastern affliction that there are no Dr. Phil's in Russia reporting on these atrocities.  the journalists who do would be beaten until in a coma or murdered.

[Boethius]

Yet despite the lack of reporting, you somehow know about it, Rubicon.

Oh, and how many American children are murdered by American parents?  Have those stats handy?

Then of course if it was the three week period in the FSU when the hot water was shut off he'd be taking a cold shower.

Everyone I knew warmed huge pots of water on the stove to bathe, not only themselves, but naturally, their children.  Plus, people showered at work (almost all workplaces had showers) or at school when their hot water was turned off.

[ECOCKS]

Boethius,

My personal experience is that this affliction is not unique to the West..

If anything happens in our house, it's always my fault - but we do get a good chuckle out of it.

Maybe lets just say that in the East, they may not blame something on someone else, but it is certainly not going to admit fault.

I think if someone asked this woman today if she was at some fault, she would admit that she is.  I have a gut feeling that is what will happen in court.  She will maintain she is not guilty of abuse but will admit having acted in a faulty manner and is seeking assistance.  That alone would work wonders for this family.

No BC, more and more I have been persuaded to believe the right and proper thing here is to place those children back in the keeping of the state (BTW, I'd like to see the videos of the children's faces when they are told they will be returning to the FSU orphanages.) where there is no brutality, unconditional love from their caretakers, no unreasonable punishment and the children all grow up to be happy, well-adjusted citizens who themselves understand the responsibilities and processes necessary to be perfect parents.

[Boethius]

Is it so much better to be in an unloving home than in an uncaring institute?

[Rubicon]

Yet despite the lack of reporting, you somehow know about it, Rubicon.

Oh, and how many American children are murdered by American parents?  Have those stats handy?
Everyone I knew warmed huge pots of water on the stove to bathe, not only themselves, but naturally, their children.  Plus, people showered at work (almost all workplaces had showers) or at school when their hot water was turned off.

how many orphans die in the street in Russia after being forced out at the age of 15 to 18?
have those stats handy Boethius??  there are approximately 700,000 orphans currently.  10% of those will commit suicide.  the rest will be forced into crime, prostitution, and become addicted to drugs and alcohol.  most will be dead by the age of 30 or in prison.  nice future they have to look forward to, Boethius.  they would be begging for some hot sauce and a cold shower if they could have an education and job prospects in the west.

[BC]

I went and looked at the video again.  Not only is Beagley abusive, but she is ineffective as a disciplinarian.  The purported punishment is for lying, but in fact, the child is being punished because he can't remember why he pulled a "blue card".  Yeah, if you had that viper yelling in your face, you'd probably forget too.  Other punishments she inflicted included making the child do jumping jacks until he was exhausted.  The title of Dr. Phil's show was "Mothers Out of Control", and that certainly was an apt description here.

I disagree.  The child abuse charge is a misdemeanor, and yet, Beagley is challenging it.  That doesn't sound like someone who is contrite.  She will need to change her whole attitude to parenting, and possibly her personality, to deal with this child effectively.

Boethius,

She is not challenging, but acting on the advice of her lawyer to plead not guilty.  I'll give her benefit of doubt as we all really should until the court has decided.

I spoke to a psychologist who helps kids and parents overcome bad behavior and he mentioned a case of abuse where a child was hung upside down from a tree, naked with the father shooting a bb gun.  Certainly, from what little is now known, I doubt the mother is this 'type' of abuser and belongs in the same 'box'.

Here, best case is that the woman is misguided and picked up that book another woman wrote about saucing and truly thought it was in the interest of the child to punish with these methods, worse if she just wanted to put on a show and sick if she gained any pleasure or reward dishing out such treatment.

We'll just have to be patient and see what happens in court..

[GQBlues]

there are 2,000 children murdered by their parents each year in Russia.  it is a typical Eastern affliction that there are no Dr. Phil's in Russia reporting on these atrocities.  the journalists who do would be beaten until in a coma or murdered.

There's a part of me that fully understand why the Russian authorities are really wallowing on this incident and making sure it injects extreme nationalism in their society's mainstream. Old habits die hard. They need their society to take charge and take a lot of these children home with them and out of the state's keep. Just like when that boy was sent back to Moscow. There was a huge uproar and nationalism spurred by that incident. The emotionality of it all was amazing and as a result, many of them adopted many of these kids....

The fact thousands of the children were sent back to the state shortly therafter is not even worth the discussion  

I really do wish this goes beyond viral. So much so that mainstream America will not only be aware about this and other incidents involving Russian orphans, but also the overwhelming notion that they are looked upon as murdering and abusive parents not only by Russians, it's government, but also of Canadians.

The more folks become fully aware of this crap, the more likely many will voice their opinion and stop this adoption nonsense from Russia altogether.

Russia can then send at least a dozen of them to Boethius.

[Boethius]

how many orphans die in the street in Russia after being forced out at the age of 15 to 18?
have those stats handy Boethius??  there are approximately 700,000 orphans currently.  10% of those will commit suicide.  the rest will be forced into crime, prostitution, and become addicted to drugs and alcohol.  most will be dead by the age of 30 or in prison.  nice future they have to look forward to, Boethius.  they would be begging for some hot sauce and a cold shower if they could have an education and job prospects in the west.

You didn't answer the question.

[Boethius]

Boethius,

She is not challenging, but acting on the advice of her lawyer to plead not guilty.  I'll give her benefit of doubt as we all really should until the court has decided.

Fair enough.  But she is also mulling legal action against the Dr. Phil show.  That doesn't sound like someone who is contrite. 

The best case scenario would be if she plead guilty and had supervised visitation and expert intervention. 

[Rubicon]

You didn't answer the question.

why should I answer any question by you, when your answer will always be superior??  and why do you continually harp on minor problems with the American adoption system, while ignoring the overwhelming evidence of abuse and neglect hundreds of thousands of orphans in Russia?

and how many street children are there in Russia, Boethius??  only about FOUR MILLION that's all.  no big deal.  no reason for concern.  no reason to talk about it here or in Russia.

[Rubicon]

why should I answer any question by you, when your answer will always be superior??  and why do you continually harp on minor problems with the American adoption system, while ignoring the overwhelming evidence of abuse and neglect hundreds of thousands of orphans in Russia?

and how many street children are there in Russia, Boethius??  only about four million.  that's all.  no big deal.  no reason for concern.  no reason to talk about it here or in Russia.

[Boethius]

You were the one who raised the issue, Rubicon, not me.  If you wish to argue from a half baked position, why should you be taken seriously?

[Rubicon]

You were the one who raised the issue, Rubicon, not me.  If you wish to argue from a half baked position, why should you be taken seriously?

that's calling the kettle black, isn't it!!

[Boethius]

[Rubicon]

Boethius, why don't we send Dr. Phil to Russia, and he can do a special on treatment of orphans in Russia, and what becomes of them after being forced to the street.  I am sure the Russian government would approve of such an investigation, would they not??

[ECOCKS]

Boethius, why don't we send Dr. Phil to Russia, and he can do a special on treatment of orphans in Russia, and what becomes of them after being forced to the street.  I am sure the Russian government would approve of such an investigation, would they not??

Geraldo can do this with Dr. Phil as his psycho consultant and the gals from the View providing the moderating and justifications.

I am SOOOOO loooking forward to THIS!

[Boethius]

It's a false argument.  What does the number of children in Russian orphanages have to do with adoptees being abused?  Is it somehow better to be abused in an American home than in a Russian orphanage?  That's the strawman.

With the exception of Mrs. Shadow, I believe all posters have recognized that the vast majority of adoptees in the US go to loving homes.  But that doesn't excuse the cases where abuse does occur.

[GQBlues]

Boethius, why don't we send Dr. Phil to Russia, and he can do a special on treatment of orphans in Russia, and what becomes of them after being forced to the street.  I am sure the Russian government would approve of such an investigation, would they not??

Well, that's a good idea if Dr Phil's date with the State Department doesn't coincide with the trip.

"...Bill Ingaldson, Beagley's attorney, declined to make his client available for an interview. He said she was on the show to seek help about the boy, who was adopted with his brother when they were 5 years old. She saw a "Dr. Phil" episode inviting frustrated parents to the show, according to her lawyer, so she wrote to producers but didn't hear back until 18 months later.

She originally sent a video showing her talking to her children about cold showers as a consequence of misbehavior, but producers wanted to see the actual discipline, Ingaldson said.

The subsequent video was made after legitimate misbehavior, and Beagley's sole motivation was to find solutions, he said....."

Besides, what would be the point in doing that? Russians are fully aware what goes on in those baby houses, LOL. That isn't news there. Not specially when there's no Americans involved..

As far as Boethius is concerned, she just wants America to give Alaska back to the Russians so Canada can annex the territory unto their own. There's been numerous sightings of large population there lately, LOL.

[Shadow]

I see that certain people still prefer to point at other mistakes to be able to oversee their own.

Like I said before, when children are adopted to give them a loving home is something that they are entitled to, anything less means they should not be adopted in the first place.

The selfish attitude of people is the main cause of why adoptions might go wrong, and like with finding a wife they are pretty good at hiding it until it is too late.

Pointing at Russia is just a diversion from admitting faults, as if America would disintegrate unless it is perfect. America is not perfect, and Russia is neither...

Every mistake is one too many, and should be evaluated.

As for Mrs Beagley, probably the other children were terrorized in to good behaviour, and only this one is still resisting.

Read the stopry and notice that she tried:
 time-outs, spankings,soap in the mouth
So there has been a pattern of abuse building up.

Seeking help is what she should have done a lot earlier, and if anyone has suggested these methods to her, they might need to seek help as well.

[Boethius]

Seeking help is what she should have done a lot earlier, and if anyone has suggested these methods to her, they might need to seek help as well.

The help she sought was not because she perceived that what she was doing was wrong, but because it wasn't working.  She was looking for help in finding discipline methods that would ensure the child bent to her will.  She never assumed she'd be told she is an abuser.

[GQBlues]

I see that certain people still prefer to point at other mistakes to be able to oversee their own.

Huh?!? This is what the entire thread is about. Except not exactly in the direction you imply.

Pointing at Russia is just a diversion from admitting faults, as if America would disintegrate unless it is perfect. America is not perfect, and Russia is neither...

LOL!! Well, that's the bear blaming the bee for eating all the honey.

As if America would disintegrate unless it's perfect? Heck, there's a silly Canadian that delights in pointing out at every chance she gets how silly we must be because of the .000452 intances of grave failure in the process. She huffs and puffs herself to self-righteousness despite not having a clue what it takes to care of these children. If that isn't enough, she compares our process for child adoption to be inferior to the process of animal adoption. For what? because 2 previous applicant proved to have a past abuse record that she feverishly surfed in the internet so she can boldly point it out to us? LOL. 2!?! Out of how many, 50,75, maybe 100 hundred thousand, maybe more? WTF!

THAT is how SILLY this entire discussion was. 99.995% success in these adoptions and we still get hot sauced. Talk about abuse, eh? No different than the ire Russians raised for that one boy sent back when the very same state and society sent back over 30,000 without so much as a murmur.

Shadow, Mrs Shadow herself turns a blind eye to what is happening in baby houses past and present, including you, for the opportunity to demonize the US along with that silly Canadian.

Those aren't baby houses in Russia Shadow, whether Mrs Shadow wants to admit it or not. Those are Frankenstein pens. The reality is, for each child in these pens is a child abandoned/forsaken by a Russian. That isn't a diversion, that's a bold fact.