Ukraine/Russian women or Latin women....

[vwrw]

Skeptical does not equal  deceptive.

Gator did not say that skeptical equals deceptive. He said if a person were characterized by both the disposition to be skeptical AND the disposition to be deceptive, then the person would use a fake smile as a tool to achieve something. In other words, he said the combination of skeptical and smiling equals deceptive.

I can see why a cynical or/and pessimistic person would have fewer reasons to smile sincerely. For them, the world is a gloomy place, people are governed by bad intentions and apocalypse is on the horizon. However, I do NOT see why a skeptical person would have fewer reasons to smile sincerely. For example, if a skeptical person doubts that the cynic's or/and the pessimist's convictions are trustworthy, then she (the skeptical person) would be more prone to smile sincerely.

[Jumper]

Misha, you just continue to dig your hole deeper and deeper.

"your post that Russian women are somehow colder . . . "

Show me my 'post' in this thread where I said this!

" . . .   why do you believe that RW are "colder"?  "

I never said anything about RW in this regard.

Why do you persist in this Misha?  Attributing to me things you know are false.

Are you taking lessons from someone??

ML-
How about making your point clear  then?

You did post some cultures are obviously warmer (colder)
and understandably defend that position.

If you do not feel that applies to western culture vs RW..
then it seems pointless in this context.

 If you do feel that there can be a significant difference or *massive difference* (your words about various cultures) between the west and FSU cultures, then Mishas question to you of *why* and *what* makes you feel that way  seems to be normal?
and the answer would help the OP..

 You can chose to answer it or not of course,
but playing word games, or semantics  seems weird to me.


 I agree with you that initial contact with people in various cultures gives far ranging impressions, of colder /warmer. I simply do not share your view that ultimately , past those initial public
scenarios,  that  those varied cultural traits worldwide, equate to any massive diffrences between
a man and woman in a committed relationship.Those differences to me seem to be individualistic.
 I've lived long term in quite  a few cultures ,the relationship dynamic in marriages certainly varies culturally there is no doubt. I'm simply not convinced the women were significantly warmer ,or colder ,(or lacked senses of humor )with their husbands,  from one culture to another.

[Misha]

Misha, you just continue to dig your hole deeper and deeper.
I call you on one misstatement of fact; and you replace it with another misstatement.

"your post that Russian women are somehow colder . . . "

Show me my 'post' in this thread where I said this!

" . . .   why do you believe that RW are "colder"?  "

I never said anything about RW in this regard.

Why do you persist in this Misha?  Attributing to me things you know are false.

Are you taking lessons from someone?

Let's see, when I stated that RW were not inherently colder than American women and that smiling in public was not a good indicator or warmth:

Misha, you know much, much better than this.

There are certainly cultures where the people are much, much warmer (colder) in general than in other cutures.

Why deny such basic truths just because one's loved one is from a certain area.

Logically, the only thing one could conclude based on your reply was that you agreed with Rubicon and others that RW were colder.

Now, you write "I never said anything about RW in this regard." Are you capable of understanding yourself what you wrote?

[ML]

Misha, you are impossible.

OK, then let's do it your way.

I don't understand why you hate Chinese people as you have stated in your posts.

Could you please explain to us where this hatred came from and why you hold these views about the Chinese people.

[Misha]

Misha, you are impossible.

Sorry, but if you can't come out and say what you think, and prefer to imply and deny, that is your problem not mine.

[Doll]

In other words, he said skeptical and smiling equals deceptive.

Since when?

[ML]

Let's see, when I stated that RW were not inherently colder than American women and that smiling in public was not a good indicator or warmth:

Quote from: ManLooking on Yesterday at 03:37:16 PM
Misha, you know much, much better than this.

There are certainly cultures where the people are much, much warmer (colder) in general than in other cutures.

Why deny such basic truths just because one's loved one is from a certain area.

- - - - -

Misha you have now three times attributed to me things I did not say, or quote my response to the wrong comments of yours.

In what you quoted me above, I WAS NOT responding to your words "

"Let's see, when I stated that RW were not inherently colder than American women and that smiling in public was not a good indicator or warmth:"

But you know this full well. 

You are a very intelligent man, and you know exactly when you are doing this.

You have no need to lie and decieve to get your points across, yet you continue to do it.

[ML]

ML-
How about making your point clear  then?

You did post some cultures are obviously warmer (colder)
and understandably defend that position.

AJ, sorry that this has become a mountain out of molehill.

My original comments were just of a general nature and in response to those who were stating something like ' no difference between cutures.'

I just wanted to state that this idea of 'no difference' flys in the face of common sense and experience.

Sorry that I got into this back and forth, but I only did so because Misha started by attributing to me words I simply did not say.

Then, each time I pointed this out to him, he replied with more words that I did not say.

I can see us each telling our different viewpoints; but what is the purpose of typing words about another person's words that we absolutely know to be false, even as we are typing them.

[Misha]

Then, each time I pointed this out to him, he replied with more words that I did not say.

I was quoting your full posts; how exactly are these words you did not say? 

[vwrw]

When it comes to personality traits, physiologists believe that there are more differences within a population than between populations. Hence, the % of warm and cold people in Russia is about the same as in other countries. However, the situations in which it is acceptable to show your warmth may defer from country to country.   Fortunately, as the globalization progresses, the differences in traditional behavior blur. New generations of FSU people, which have been growing with American movies, may exhibit the behavior which they see in the movies.

My point is to evaluate people of a country on a dimension, like warmness, one needs to use the country's criteria for measuring warmness. In Russia, I believe, people will analyze how you treat your special ones to determine your level of warmness. I also believe that a woman who passes the warmness's test positively in Russia using the Russian criteria will be characterized as a warm person in any other country AFTER she learns the traditional ways of showing warmness in the country and the appropriate situations for showing it .

[Jumper]

Ok-
I think you guys have just hung around RW too much ..
 



I'm still laughing over I/Os description of a typical WM/RW *debate*,
the truth is quite often not only stranger than fiction, but more amusing too.
I can't imagine how many times I have had that exact experience. too funny....

[vwrw]

Since when?

According to my philosophy, skeptical and smiling do NOT tend to equal deceptive. You need to address your question to Gator, if you want an answer.

[Jumper]

When it comes to personality traits, physiologists believe that there are more differences within a population than between populations. Hence, the % of warm and cold people in Russia is about the same as in other countries. However, the situations in which it is acceptable to show your warmth may defer from country to country.   Fortunately, as the globalization progresses, the differences in traditional behavior blur. New generations of FSU people, which have been growing with American movies, may exhibit the behavior which they see in the movies.

My point is to evaluate people of a country on a dimension, like warmness, one needs to use the country's criteria for measuring warmness. In Russia, I believe, people will analyze how you treat your special ones to determine your level of warmness. I also believe that a woman who passes the warmness's test positively in Russia using the Russian criteria will be characterized as a warm person in any other country AFTER she learns the traditional ways of showing warmness in the country and the appropriate situations for showing it .

 

[Blues Fairy]

I still don't quite get what you guys mean by "warmness" and whether it's more of an internal or external trait.  How does it relate to kindness, generosity?  My husband, for example, is a reserved, cerebral type whom most of you would probably characterize as "cold" in terms of showing emotions, yet there is no kinder or more generous person.  That's what ultimately matters, to me at least.  I would always rather befriend a dry wit who rarely smiles yet behaves like a gentleman/lady in all situations, than an empty-headed jerk with a bubbly, outgoing personality.  

[SomeGuy]

Yes, this is a good observation.  I've heard Russians criticize the friendliness of the US as being akin to a mask, that the real face of those in the US is just one of indifference.  The idea is that Russians are more genuinely indifferent and even rude to the man on the street but have deep relationships with friends and family whereas in the US, people are, in their outward aspect, more considerate, but are more generally indifferent and alienated even to 'friends' and family, incapable of deep relationships or voicing strong opinion. 

I would not use the word 'incapable' here, but this is similar to where my wife and I have come to in a similar conversation.  
She, like BF, does like people smiling in public, although acknowledges that quite a few FSU consider them 'fake,' and she's well aware that not everyone that smiles is a 'friend.'  She also believes that many Americans are not as close to their 'friends' as FSU folk, in that they are instead more acquaintances than real friends, citing some of the examples given like by dbneeley, always aware of, and planning things for friends birthdays or special events.  Overall, I can't fault her conclusions there, and might liken it to those that prefer a small group of very close friends, over a larger group of acquaintances, and those close friendships are important.  

I wonder how many would consider the 'unsmiling FSU' then compare them to bigger cities, such as New York - there as well, you're as unlikely to be smiled at by random strangers, and you do see some of the same 'conclusions' being drawn there as well.

Meanwhile, we smile, laugh and touch every day, go figure.

[Daveman]

Given their history Russians are naturally skeptical.  Skeptical, forthright people don't smile.  Skeptical, deceptive people will use a smile as a tool.  Used car salesmen in America have fabulous smiles.

As do most serial killers..   :evil:

[Gator]

Skeptical does not equal  deceptive.

Doll,

I write in minimal words and you want more explanation.  Okay.

In contrast with Russians, Latin people smile freely.  The Latin smile is not fake.  It comes from a desire to connect with other people.   Do Russians want to connect?   For sure Russians tend to be skeptical with strangers.


I never implied that all skeptical people are deceptive.  VWRW has used deductive reasoning to extend my comment to other associations.  I will not get into those.  Suffice it to say that Russians are one of the most skeptical and pessimistic people I have encountered.  For example, they do not celebrate something until it happens even though everyone knows it will happen. 

There are optimistic, warm and smiling RW.  I have met them.  Not many, yet they exist.  When a man finds one, he has indeed found a gem.

What are the reasons explaining why Russians do not smile freely.  One reason is because everyone around them is frowning (we have heard that smiles are contagious, well so are frowns).   I do not accept the excuse that Russians are sullen because Russian life is  difficult.   Go to Jamaica and you will see plenty of smiles even though scratching out a living is far more difficult.   Are there famous Russian songs similar to the follwing?
 
 
Nat King Cole, Smile, 1954

Does Russian media teach that smiling improves your health, your stress level, and your attractiveness?   That it is fun and it increases longevity?  As an example, here  are popular American references enumerating 10, 5, 7 and 7 benefits of smiling (thus, 29 reasons to smile):

 http://longevity.about.com/od/lifelongbeauty/tp/smiling.htm

 http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2006/10/05/5-reasons-why-you-should-smile-more/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anne-naylor/reasons-to-smile_b_823401.html

http://www.sparkpeople.com/resource/wellness_articles.asp?id=1529

Your grandson is smiling.  Will he keep that delightful smile?  I hope he does. 

[Gator]

Double Post

[OlgaH]

Go to Jamaica and you will see plenty of smiles even though scratching out a living is far more difficult.

because in Jamaica "life is 'irie, mon, and there are no problems, only situations." (especially after a few puffs... non-stop)    

[dbneeley]

What are the reasons explaining why Russians do not smile freely.  One reason is because everyone around them is frowning (we have heard that smiles are contagious, well so are frowns). 

Gator,

Sorry, but you certainly must go to far different places than I do. In my experience, not that many people frown in public either. Most of those you see on the streets or in the markets are mostly expressionless--neither frowning or smiling most of the time. I suppose you may refer to their typical public expressions as a "poker face" for the most part.

People here have also claimed very bad or indifferent service from store clerks. Nearly everywhere I go, when I make it clear I don't speak the language beyond a few words, people generally seek to be helpful in any way they can. This is in grocery stores as well as in other shops of all sizes as well as in the local rinok.

Where you might see more frowns would be at some of the more bureaucratic places with long lines of people waiting to do their business and leave. A couple days ago, it took my wife nearly two hours simply to pay the utility bill for our flat as the office was extremely crowded and it simply took that long for her turn to come up. That kind of situation will have some very genuine frowns--I would think for very good reason.

Of course, the "poker faces" quickly melt into smiles when people greet friends or acquaintances they encounter.

David

[Chelseaboy]

I'm not sure about all this smiling at strangers in the street lark.
I'm English,and people here don't generally smile at strangers in the street either.In fact people in the London and south-east area are very reserved,although people tend to become friendlier the further north in England one goes.
Many Russian women happily live in London,so maybe all this non-smiling at strangers suits them ?
I remember my mother telling me that when she moved down to London from the lake district area,as a beautiful young woman of 21,fifty years ago,that when she tried to talk with people at a bus stop,they looked at her in disbelief,that this stranger wanted to say hello to them.

[SFandEE]

Both of these cultures have lovely women with great qualities--good luck attracting one, hope these posts help you target your market

[Gator]

because in Jamaica "life is 'irie, mon, and there are no problems, only situations." (especially after a few puffs... non-stop)    

If you are frowning when taking a person's photo, they probably will not smile.   Looks as if you went to Kingston or some other developed area of Jamaica.  I try to avoid those and head to the remote areas.  Somewhere I have a photo or two of women with a water jar on their head with a big smile.  Of course I was smiling at them.  "No problem mon."

[Gator]

Gator,

Sorry, but you certainly must go to far different places than I do. In my experience, not that many people frown in public either. Most of those you see on the streets or in the markets are mostly expressionless--neither frowning or smiling most of the time. I suppose you may refer to their typical public expressions as a "poker face" for the most part.

My use of "frown" is a literal exaggeration, as it was not an upside down smile.  Yet, my personality considers a poker face the same as a frown.  Many riding the metro had a true frown; even the drunkards could not manage a silly expression.

[OlgaH]

If you are frowning when taking a person's photo, they probably will not smile. 

I agree. A frowning face has never been my style.  I noticed that they smile a lot if they work for tourists or try to sell you something, but when you politely refuse... what ever 

 Looks as if you went to Kingston or some other developed area of Jamaica.  I try to avoid those and head to the remote areas. 

The photos I posted were taken along the road from Negril to Mayfield Falls. It was some kind of celebration in a small town on our way in a remote area. Our driver, a native Jamaican man, told us that it would not be a good idea to stop there, and looking at the police with machine guns among celebrating people, we agreed.   

Somewhere I have a photo or two of women with a water jar on their head with a big smile.  Of course I was smiling at them.  "No problem mon."

Never saw a woman with a water jar on her head when we were passing by villages    But rastamen selling weed were a very frequent picture. Yes some people were smiling and waving their hands in response, but some were extremely rude. But honestly, their popas and middle fingers they showed us did not bother me at all, as I saw those people for the first and last time in my life 

We have been to Jamaica twice: First time we went to Ochos Rios and second time to Negril. We had a wonderful time and we definitely will be going back. "No problem mon. Everything is 'irie!"