Ukraine/Russian women or Latin women....

[Doll]

Also, the OP is talking of the lack of sense of humor (about RW). So, he thinks, if RW don't smile as much as lets say AW, then there is a lack of sense of humor.
Very funny!

There is certainly some delay when the ELL listen to a "born" English language speaker because to hear, to understand and to react takes a little longer.
But as for the sense of humor, RW are the best I think.
So basicly, it is all about "same old"- smiles.

[Doll]

The Russian will start out arguing somewhat logically then become emotionally charged, then probably scream or shout a little (for an hour or so), go toe to toe with you, not give an inch and tomorrow go along with everything you were pushing for, often with smile (but you must never mention it) and a few weeks later when you're least expecting it, she'll throw up how she was correct even though she is now doing exactly the opposite to her claimed position during the argument.

Close!

[I/O]

Close!

I rest my case...!!!

[Doll]

A b!tch is never far enough away

[Doll]

never taking a backward step (I mean NEVER),

Very true.

[Jumper]

Misha and Doll, why must you persist in this when you are both very intelligent and know for a certainty that there are massive differences, in general, in the warmth of people from different cultures.  This difference exists whether in private or in public.

Picture yourself going to dinner in the home of a random Italian family whether in Italy or in USA.

Now, picture yourself going to dinner in the home of a random Finnish Lutheran family whether in Finland or USA.

All this BS about getting to know the people more, private vs public, etc., is hogwash. 

There are massive differences.

Note, I am not saying one is bad and one is good, and I haven't even stated my preference.  I am just saying there obvious differences to any objective observer who is not merely trying to protect a culture they feel is being attacked.

ML- point taken.

As recent example i find Mexico more friendly to strangers, than the locals in Dominican Republic.
this however may not apply at all to home life, this is my perception merely of their general cultural
traits  in regards to tourists or strangers.

 *Generally* I find people in the southern part of the USA to be warmer and friendlier than in
the Northern part! Maybe it's the weather.
I also tend to generally find rural people ,  to be friendlier than most big city dwellers.

Now just how much would that matter marrying an individual from any of those areas?
or even really effect some mans search if going thru a USA based dating website looking for a good match?

Are the Latino women  KaptL would likely meet and date..
once involved,  going to be significantly warmer , or  have  a better sense of humor,
  than the average RW he would get involved with?

I just don't buy that. *shrugs*

How the generalities are perceived seems a foolish reason to think that RW are not warm ,
loving , or that they lack  a sense of humor , in general.
 Those  sentiments,  couldn't be further from the truth in my experience,
 and that is what the OP perceived.

In my general experience few women from any culture are any warmer or have a better sense of humor than FSUW , once committed.

Of course some posters will share his current perception.


I've been long term involved in both situations he is contemplating.
and if he got involved with RW that was 'cold"and humorless in their relationship,
.. i'd find it far more an anomaly than a generality,
and wouldn't that be a natural part of his vetting out process anyway?

Maybe i'm confusing posters ,but I thought he was contemplating an AFA tour to Odessa?
So a silly assumption might be made that he likely would consider an AFA tour in Latin America?

If that was the case, i'd wish him the best of luck with avoiding materialistic women in either scenario.
 
In that context, this whole current debate , viewed from where and how the OP *seems* to be *looking* (big socials), is just rather pointless to me.
As the very method itself is flawed IMHO,and the women he would meet quite likely a high percentage of a certain type.
So any general cultural traits, would just  seem to be a very minor sidebar in those scenarios..

The vast majority of RW i know, and any i have been involved with ,
were warm friendly ,smiled often ,and had great senses of humor.
Some  cultural differences existed, and they perhaps would be more reserved in public
 (as Doll described)

Hey I happen to love both Central and South America, and if i felt it was a better path for him,I'd certainly state that. As it is i'd have more concern in the method to meet ,
than the continent they reside.

[Doll]

The smile or lack there of. Understand why (The resident RW here will probably challenge / correct this but it was the most logical explanation given me by several Russians). A smile is related to humour right? Generally humour is related to something funny right (no brainer)? You greet someone new and smile at them (we see it as smiling to or with them, they don't), you are suggesting they are funny, perhaps ridiculous as they have made no comment to you yet, therefore you are making fun of them so to say. Get it?  

There's one more- we smile when we meet somebody we know and happy to see.
My first months here were confusing- when people smile at me in the store I always asked myself,"Do I know her/him?" To smile at all the people in the store just to "show the teeth" still seems very odd for me. Am I happy to see them? Actually I don't care at all

  

[I/O]

Actually I don't care at all

Neither do we, now beloved Dolly, can you shut up and stop being a typical RW for a change? Note to K/L, they're yapping 20 minutes before they're eyes are open and still yapping 20 minutes after they are closed (excluding sex which seemingly provides a whole 'nother opportunity for audible articulation). 

[Doll]

can you shut up

No. Because

never taking a backward step (I mean NEVER),

[Misha]

Misha and Doll, why must you persist in this when you are both very intelligent and know for a certainty that there are massive differences, in general, in the warmth of people from different cultures.  This difference exists whether in private or in public.

The error that you are making is as follows: smiles in public = a warm person with a great sense of humor. This is a very simplistic and erroneous conclusion.

Yes, when I was walking around Mazatlan random strangers would walk up to me beaming and I always knew they had a time-share that they wanted to sell me  Following your logic, Mexicans selling time-shares to foreign tourists are the warmest people on the planet with the best sense of humor 

What Doll is rightfully trying to get across is that a smile is not always an authentic display of true emotion. It can be a false smile. Yes, Russians in public are much less likely to display a false smile. I agree with you there. However, I see beyond this and look at real people that I have met in their real lives in their homes over 15+ years and I can affirm that under these circumstances Russians are just as likely to smile and laugh and joke around as are Canadians or any other people that I have met....

[Gator]

When I first started writing RW in 2002, few smiled in their photos.  Their official photos (e. g., passport) looked like mug shots made at the jail.  I was told by a couple of RW that this is Russian culture, left over from Soviet days and bad times in the 1990s.

During my last trip, I saw more smiling Russians than in 2002.  Maybe they are changing.  A smiling RW with those glorious eyes is indeed a delightful sight.

Years ago, my Moscow woman and I had talked over a year about how Russian people rarely smile, especially in public.  One day we took the kids to a McDonald's in Moscow.  The manager, who probably had attended Hamburger University, came out from behind the counter and made a stern announcement to those working the registers.  I asked, "What did he say?"  She laughed and replied, "He complained that no one is smiling.  He said, 'If you want to keep your job, you must smile!' "

BTW, Mexicans think Americans don't smile enough.  The Latin smile is not faked.  It is very sincere.

I have met some RW who smile freely.  It reflects their inherently happy nature.  However, I would not classify any of them as intellectual. 

[Blues Fairy]

To smile at all the people in the store just to "show the teeth" still seems very odd for me. Am I happy to see them? Actually I don't care at all

I find smiling to strangers at the store/in the street, and them smiling at me, extraordinarily pleasing even though it may be fake.  It demonstrates a consistent, automatic effort to be friendly, which is sorely missing from everyday communication in Russia.  In Russian stores, on the roads, in the streets, people seem to make a consistent effort to be mean to each other, sometimes preventively, "just in case".  This gloominess and rudeness, just like the smiling, has a chain effect and ultimately creates a certain atmosphere.  I prefer to live in a friendly atmosphere, not depressing like in Russia, though it may be closer to people's true feelings.    

[ML]

The error that you are making is as follows: smiles in public = a warm person with a great sense of humor. This is a very simplistic and erroneous conclusion.

Wow, you charge me with equating smile to warmth, when I never mentioned anything about a smile.

See how far you are going to try to defend your position?  Sir, do you know no shame?

[Faux Pas]

I find smiling to strangers at the store/in the street, and them smiling at me, extraordinarily pleasing even though it may be fake.  It demonstrates a consistent, automatic effort to be friendly, which is sorely missing from everyday communication in Russia.  In Russian stores, on the roads, in the streets, people seem to make a consistent effort to be mean to each other, sometimes preventively, "just in case".  This gloominess and rudeness, just like the smiling, has a chain effect and ultimately creates a certain atmosphere.  I prefer to live in a friendly atmosphere, not depressing like in Russia, though it may be closer to people's true feelings.    

This has been an ongoing discussion with the wife and I since she arrived. She started out very suspicious from stranger's greeting smiles. Last week we attended a function with 3-400 people and when leaving she started the conversation up again as most of the people were smiling when meeting her. She has concluded that Russians are mean first, then after meeting get warmer whereas Americans are friendly first and then decide whether to get mean or not. (her words)

[Kapitanleutnant]

Very astute observation by your wife, Faux Pas!!    Exactly as I see it.    I totally agree Americans always seem to give the benefit of any doubt towards someone initially and then make the determination after talking/getting to know them.

Wow....   One could almost write a Paper for a Doctoral Thesis on East/West relations with where this thread has gone, eh!!!   :-)

K

[Shostakovich]

This has been an ongoing discussion with the wife and I since she arrived. She started out very suspicious from stranger's greeting smiles. Last week we attended a function with 3-400 people and when leaving she started the conversation up again as most of the people were smiling when meeting her. She has concluded that Russians are mean first, then after meeting get warmer whereas Americans are friendly first and then decide whether to get mean or not. (her words)

Yes, this is a good observation.  I've heard Russians criticize the friendliness of the US as being akin to a mask, that the real face of those in the US is just one of indifference.  The idea is that Russians are more genuinely indifferent and even rude to the man on the street but have deep relationships with friends and family whereas in the US, people are, in their outward aspect, more considerate, but are more generally indifferent and alienated even to 'friends' and family, incapable of deep relationships or voicing strong opinion. 

[Daveman]

... The Russian will start out arguing somewhat logically then become emotionally charged, then probably scream or shout a little (for an hour or so), go toe to toe with you, not give an inch and tomorrow go along with everything you were pushing for, often with smile (but you must never metion it) and a few weeks later when you're least expecting it, she'll throw up how she was correct even though she is now doing exactly the opposite to her claimed position during the argument.

Absolutely perfectly describes my experience as well.

[dbneeley]

I think the attempt to define a culture by whether people smile in public is an incredibly incomplete slice of the entire question.

For example, I find people here in Ukraine tend to be extremely conscious of things often neglected in the West. For example, people here pay great attention to birthdays of relatives, friends, and colleagues. We seem to constantly be buying gifts of one sort or another for someone--an average of three or four times per month, I believe. In the West, it is common for people not to be aware of when someone's birthday might be, let alone to be sure to give them gifts unless they are someone very close.

To give another example of the warmth and thoughtfulness--one of my stepson's instructors at the technical university just became a father for the first time. My wife bought a small selection of baby care items for them, explaining that university instructors at his level were paid very little and that they would appreciate them. She has done similar things for nurses and orderlies at her clinic on many occasions, and not so long ago she loaned money to a colleague whose daughter was trying to buy her first apartment with her new husband--but they were a little short of the amount needed to close on the place.

In short, I believe that people in the FSU tend to give friendships far more weight than many Westerners do--which I believe is an extension of several factors, among them that for so many years during Communist times knowing who your friends truly were was a survival skill.

As for smiling on the street and to strangers, I often do that--and often enough I get smiles in return, although quite often also I get an instantaneous look that seems to say "I wonder if I know him from somewhere?"

As others have said, though, most people at home or with friends have no lack of warmth and often a huge appreciation for humor.

David

[Gylden]

All this bit about smiling is really quite simple!!

Americans...are smiling all of the time (except when driving their cars).
Russians...are smiling only when the neighbors cow dies.
Scandinavians...are smiling when the sun is shining.
Italians....are smiling when they sit down for dinner (lunch).
Japanese....are smiling when the business deal is closed (or when girl watching).

On a serious note, I like what BF wrote.

 .....because I am an American and the sun is shining!

[Doll]

I think the attempt to define a culture by whether people smile in public is an incredibly incomplete slice of the entire question.

For example, I find people here in Ukraine tend to be extremely conscious of things often neglected in the West. For example, people here pay great attention to birthdays of relatives, friends, and colleagues. We seem to constantly be buying gifts of one sort or another for someone--an average of three or four times per month, I believe. In the West, it is common for people not to be aware of when someone's birthday might be, let alone to be sure to give them gifts unless they are someone very close.

To give another example of the warmth and thoughtfulness--one of my stepson's instructors at the technical university just became a father for the first time. My wife bought a small selection of baby care items for them, explaining that university instructors at his level were paid very little and that they would appreciate them. She has done similar things for nurses and orderlies at her clinic on many occasions, and not so long ago she loaned money to a colleague whose daughter was trying to buy her first apartment with her new husband--but they were a little short of the amount needed to close on the place.

In short, I believe that people in the FSU tend to give friendships far more weight than many Westerners do--which I believe is an extension of several factors, among them that for so many years during Communist times knowing who your friends truly were was a survival skill.

As for smiling on the street and to strangers, I often do that--and often enough I get smiles in return, although quite often also I get an instantaneous look that seems to say "I wonder if I know him from somewhere?"

As others have said, though, most people at home or with friends have no lack of warmth and often a huge appreciation for humor.

David

Agree 100%

[Doll]

On a serious note, I like what BF wrote.
 

I am sure you did.

[Gator]

Given their history Russians are naturally skeptical.  Skeptical, forthright people don't smile.  Skeptical, deceptive people will use a smile as a tool.  Used car salesmen in America have fabulous smiles.

[Doll]

Given their history Russians are naturally skeptical.  Skeptical, forthright people don't smile.  Skeptical, deceptive people will use a smile as a tool.  Used car salesmen in America have fabulous smiles.

Skeptical does not equal  deceptive.

[Misha]

Wow, you charge me with equating smile to warmth, when I never mentioned anything about a smile.

See how far you are going to try to defend your position?  Sir, do you know no shame?

You were seemingly affirming based on your post that Russian women are somehow colder and thus coming to the support of Rubicon et al. Enlighten me then, what is your criteria and why do you believe that RW are "colder"? 

[ML]

You were seemingly affirming based on your post that Russian women are somehow colder and thus coming to the support of Rubicon et al. Enlighten me then, what is your criteria and why do you believe that RW are "colder"?  

Misha, you just continue to dig your hole deeper and deeper.
I call you on one misstatement of fact; and you replace it with another misstatement.

"your post that Russian women are somehow colder . . . "

Show me my 'post' in this thread where I said this!

" . . .   why do you believe that RW are "colder"?  "

I never said anything about RW in this regard.

Why do you persist in this Misha?  Attributing to me things you know are false.

Are you taking lessons from someone??