Women's Day -should I?

[Muzh]

Yeah, the he-men of the world are free to express the logic of neuroassociations, the stupidity of following goofy traditions, etc, but the bottom line is that all the logic in the world does not negate the emotional responses of women.  IMO, regardless of what she says, when a woman is neglected on any special day, she will *never* forget that disappointment.  It just weighs more emotionally than elation. 

+ 10E6

And that is the bottom line that should be learned for a successful relationship.

[SFandEE]

Having followed this thread lightly--I would add my comment that I think this is a reflection of the importance of getting to the country and determining the seriousness of the relationship in person.

These businesses want to sell flowers, food items, stuffed animals and as has been mentioned women expect these things on special days.  It is safe to say that some women receive several gifts and flowers from different men for the same holiday and if you are absent you will be viewed as neglectful, but neglectful of someone who may not be very interested either since she is receiving several men.

Perhaps it has been mentioned--does the same woman who would see herself as slighted on IWD, recognize her man on International Men's Day, celebrate February 23 in Ukraine (and by lovely Ukrainian women in US)?  Did she send an email, initiate a phone call, arrange for flowers.  How about Christmas?  Birthday?  Independence Day?  New Year's?  I think expecting things can be bad form and result in unmet expectations, but when they are expected they are expected.

SO, I agree if she expects a gift--best get her a gift.  Hopefully it will be received by someone who knows and cares who you are!!!

[GQBlues]

GQ, Sometimes I think I'm following you and at other times I am not sure. Are you differentiating the attitudes of various men between say, truly appreciating your woman for who she is (and vice versa) and giving whatever in that context as opposed to doing something to kiss her ass for a favorable reaction or attention not freely given? That's what I *usually* get from your posts, but sometimes I'm not so sure.

That's exactly what I am saying Daveman. Not once on this thread have I ever disowned the act or gesture of showing your appreciation to your SO just because.... Whether it's Tuesday, IWD, Valentine's Day, her Name Day or simply because the sky is blue. I've already said such a gesture is not to be dismissed of its significance, let alone be disregarded.

To me, however, *giving* , is just that *giving*. It isn't giving to gain a favor or get a reaction. I realize there are men out there, likely far more than men like me, who fit that suit.

To 'use' this gesture to get, or worst, expect, a favorable reaction is both silly and stupid, IMHO. Agencies know this, so they peddle this silly *idea* to any clueless men out there who'll bite, and bite they will...

Look at the last 2 recent posts on this thread. When men don't get the reaction, or the flowers didn't result in the type of 'reaction' they expected to begin with, then they damned all biatches to hell. LOL.

When men get their booty kicked to the curb, what's the first cause of action?

Yup, hit the florists...then wait for a reaction. If no reaction, they wig-out and start searching for closure for months, years, even a lifetime. LOL. That's cereal box-top dating tips 101, man.

Listen, you would no more date a woman who tells you to make sure you get her flowers because it's whatever - or else you can take a hike, would you? If not, then the question now is, why on earth will any man put himself in that position (flowers for favor) to begin with? You sell your soul to that devil, then be prepared to live your life in hell...cause sooner or later the devil will come back to collect.

Of course I agree that kissing the ass of a woman in the hope of gaining some favor/attention/whatever not freely given to you by nature of who you are is an exercise of sheer wind pissing which will inevitably blow right back into your face.

Good. I'm glad to hear that. That's all I've been saying...

Another aspect of that, however, is concerning days... my HONEST opinion is that flowers are an absolutely stupid, absurd, ridiculous gift due to, well, many factors and reasons, and recognizing a day merely because it's a "rule" is the epitome of following the herds of the masses.... BUT, even if I don't necessarily FEEL like buying flowers on that day, why in the world would any guy who actually cares for a woman neglect her on a day where programming has determined that the man she cares about should show it on that day? Logical or not, neglect does equate to hurt feelings and disappointment.

Now you're starting to slide the debate back to smother what we've agreed to so far. The caveat here is the OP HAS NOT met the woman. Now if you tell me the *OP actually cares for the woman* as somehow equal to a man's feelings already in an established relationship, well, we can just agree to disagree.

I thought what Mendeleyev posted in the 2nd page would be something I find appropriate for the cause considering the OP's situation. But I do understand, considering this is the MOB, there will be a lot men who won't support that idea and one need NOT wonder why. I suppose...
 

Yeah, the he-men of the world are free to express the logic of neuroassociations, the stupidity of following goofy traditions, etc, but the bottom line is that all the logic in the world does not negate the emotional responses of women. IMO, regardless of what she says, when a woman is neglected on any special day, she will *never* forget that disappointment. It just weighs more emotionally than elation.

I disagree. IMO, it simply means that *woman* still needs a lot of growing up to do, Daveman.

[XMan]

I have to say that people shouldn't confuse a guy with a strong, confident personality and presence with a "bad boy" either. Women will almost always choose a confident guy over someone that, uh, isn't.

I agree.

[XMan]

Xman:

Me thinks you are correct about this...

...but not about this.

If you would apply your own teachings as in:

then you would NOT be a nice guy finishing last.

Actually, it is applied across the board. 
Unfortunately the respective behavior of several women came to light after significant effort had already been expended. 
In my darker moments I wonder if the "success" of the "sex tourists" makes them smarter than I. 
After all, they are reaching their "goal." 
My far more respectful and sincere approach has produced...uh, yeah, well, interesting site seeing thus far I guess.  And a few friends.  And some nice photos.  So I guess it produced something.

Sic vita est.

[tfcrew]

Somehow I am reminded of the Doors' lyric:  "Show me the way to the next little girl," which was a copy of a 1927 song written by a German Marxist.

  [Alabama Song] Whiskey Bar.
David Bowie also recorded that one.
 

[mendeleyev]

Sorry Mendeleyev, I will have to respectfully disagree with you. It has nothing to do with the quality of the flowers, rather the entitlement attitude of the women receiving those flowers. I am sure that the flowers were no worse than any "local" flowers that any woman received.

Misha, sorry if I made it seem that only the quality of flowers was the factor and therefore somehow an excuse for her. I do feel that dollar for dollar we who send flowers from afar can't always match local access or pricing. However more to the point I fully agree with you that this girl is a problem and lacks what Mrs M commonly terms as "good upbringing" by her selfish and unrealistic response.

[Misha]

I fully agree with you that this girl is a problem and lacks what Mrs M commonly terms as "good upbringing" by her selfish and unrealistic response.

Pretty much. I don't know whether such women naturally gravitate towards agencies or they become that way with too much contact with foreigners, but I have to say that I was fortunate to have never encountered such a woman when I was dating.

[Daveman]

Heya GQ, thanks for the clarity.

I believe we are discussing apples and oranges... I'm on a tangent writing about men and women who are beyond the correspondence phase and who have developed more serious relationships... thus my comments about dog houses, disappointment, et al... It completely slipped my mind that the OP had not met the woman in question yet.  Ah well, I'll blame it on the vodka... 

Dave

[Saltheart]

Update:  unless something changes this week - she is coming out in the middle of April for 2 weeks...due to some work/legal matters it may get pushed to middle of May.  She prefers just normal trip, doing normal things..."no need to entertain" and see where it goes from there.  Bought her a calling card...she thought it was totally unnecessary ...probably was lol.  Oh well.  No biggy.

Btw - she has a Russian drivers license, is she allowed to drive here?  How does that work?

-SH

[Muzh]

Btw - she has a Russian drivers license, is she allowed to drive here?  How does that work?

-SH

I guess you'll find out when she rents a car. Good luck with your "highschool" date. And keep your rants to a minimum, please?  LMAO

Enabler

[Gator]

Update:  unless something changes this week - she is coming out in the middle of April for 2 weeks...due to some work/legal matters it may get pushed to middle of May.  She prefers just normal trip, doing normal things..."no need to entertain" and see where it goes from there.  Bought her a calling card...she thought it was totally unnecessary ...probably was lol.  Oh well.  No biggy.

Btw - she has a Russian drivers license, is she allowed to drive here?
-SH

An official Internatuional Driver's Permit is a booklet.  What she probably has is a something the size of a business card with her photo, similar to our license.  The Russian entries are also translated in English.  America allows foreign visitors to rent a car, so I imagine that her license (if it has an English translation) is acceptable to a highway trooper who has pulled her over for speeding (or if she was involved in an accident).  Important - instruct her not to offer a bribe.  I am not kidding you.

How does that work?

Not well according to the husbands of RW wives.  They are accident prone. 

[SFandEE]

Ah well, I'll blame it on the vodka... 

Dave

A very site appropriate comment.

[Saltheart]

I guess you'll find out when she rents a car. Good luck with your "highschool" date. And keep your rants to a minimum, please?  LMAO

Enabler

Alrighty then!  Hope you are feeling better!

-SH

[viking]

Important - instruct her not to offer a bribe.  I am not kidding you.

Not well according to the husbands of RW wives.  They are accident prone. 

1. Take Gators advice about bribes.

2. If she wants to drive, take her to the Great Salt Flats where there are no obstructions for 100 miles.  Let her drive and then you will understand why god created vodka.

I am not kidding you either.

[Wayne]

Each state has there own laws concerning driving, but for a short term, she should be able to drive with the Russian license. When you are together, it might be better if you drive whether it is a rental or your own car.

Giving her flowers when you meet would be nice but not required.

[Muzh]

Each state has there own laws concerning driving, but for a short term, she should be able to drive with the Russian license. When you are together, it might be better if you drive whether it is a rental or your own car.

Giving her flowers when you meet would be nice but not required.

If you are renting a car, the rental agency will ask who is driving the car. If she is NOT on the contract then it would be very wise not letting her drive. I'm not sure if the rental agency will ask for her credit card if they are renting together.

[Saltheart]

I'm not sure if she will be driving or not...was just thinking it may suck for her to stay home somedays while I'm out and about.  It's a country club though so there are things to do but it's not my exact idea of how to spend part of a day.  She claims she's "so so" at driving which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.  She hasn't brought it up, as usual I'm probably putting energy/effort into unknowns.

[JR]

Boredom will kill everything....rent a car, make sure she's on the insurance, get her a GPS and her to have some freedom.

[Saltheart]

Bought tickets today..she's scheduled to land in 12 days...staying for 17 days.  Appears to be going well...we continue to grow closer and share more and more...both are feeling confident things will work out but realize it might not...we"ll see.

-Salty

[Muzh]

Bought tickets today..she's scheduled to land in 12 days...staying for 17 days.  Appears to be going well...we continue to grow closer and share more and more...both are feeling confident things will work out but realize it might not...we"ll see.

-Salty

Hey Salty, keep us posted and good luck.

Most of all, have fun.

[Saltheart]

Quick update:

She's landed, she's stunning, appropriate, and we were both very similar to what we had built up in our heads.  So far so good - it's really nice to have her here... Special lady.  Two weeks to go... With a possibility of extending trip - will post a real one when I can.

Salty

[chivo]

Quick update:

She's landed, she's stunning, appropriate, and we were both very similar to what we had built up in our heads.  So far so good - it's really nice to have her here... Special lady.  Two weeks to go... With a possibility of extending trip - will post a real one when I can.

Salty

I would think twice about a rental unless you live in an easy to navigate area with minimum traffic. At least right away. Show her the area, take her out some place to get comfortable driving if possible (you and her ). Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with just renting a car and letting her go off on her own. Too soon IMO even with GPS. I'm thinking safety mostly.

These girls like to walk around the areas so maybe a stroll to get her acquainted with places she can go close to the house while you're doing your thing would be interesting.

Glad to hear you're doing fine BTW. Enjoy because the time will fly by.

[Gator]

Salty,

Splendid!  Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed.   Now is a good time to buy some flowers, an inexpensive arrangement when shopping.

[Saltheart]

Chivo....yes, low traffic, easy navigation area...if she stays, will probably do some drivers Ed to get the skills up to speed we'll see.  It's a bit premature right now, but all indications are very positive thus far.  It's been refreshing to be with someone so direct.

As somewhat noted, I am surprised that I'm not surprised by her...I was worried she would be very different potentially in the flesh.  Not so much other than being better.

What I am surprised by is how efficient, frugal and non-wasteful she is.  Like, to a level that I'm just not used too... Man does she know how to make things last.  E.g., if there's a bit of ranch dressing left from a container, an amount I would normally throwout, she simply won't until it's used.  Same with everything else in the fridge...must be (or rather, we should consider...haha) used before we go out and buy more...and then she diligently goes about eating it.  It's really refreshing and frankly is forcing me to look at some of my own wasteful habits. 

Without going into personal details she's been appropriately affectionate and classy.  Very encouraging and I'm glad to see those values displayed without guile. 

Thumbs up... Hope it continues but time will tell.

Gator, had a single rose with me and flowers back at the house for her.  BTW, she is one that does recognize the "odd" number of flowers as having some relevance.  Interesting.

Also, just learned from her that the flowers I sent on Mar 8th died on day 1....she was very upset with the floral company, she knows how expensive that was but didn't want to ruin it for me.

More later perhaps.


SH