My divorce

[The Natural]

Well, the money wasn`t really a deal-breaker here. It was just one factor and I really have to say us two not feeling enough romantically towards each other, is what was wrong. But that`s alright, good thing we found out while still reasonably young.

As for the money issue. She wanted her own account as soon as she got her job. Very reasonable and normal. But I had a little trouble convincing her that she also had to use most of her money for the whole family expenses. I had a much bigger salary than her, but it was not like I was rich or anything. She wanted most of the money for herself and to save for a drivers licence.

What some couple do here is they usually have each a bank account where the salaries come in. Then they agree on how many % of the salary should go to the family unit and then open a third joint account for living expenses.

Well, today she signed the papers so that I will take care of the morgage and the deed will be on me only. If i ever get another wife I will keep the house in my name, just in case. If she leaves me, I won`t have to be on the street, so to speak. And if she is faithful, I will happily have her inherit me as I have no children on my own.

Good plan?

[Misha]

I suppose the physical attraction wasn't as strong as we first thought it would be.

I don't quite understand this statement. When you meet someone, either you are attracted to them or you aren't. It seems that you thought that the physical attraction would get stronger over time.

[Faux Pas]

I agree that the mentality regarding money is different in the FSU as opposed to the west. However, I don't think this was the cause of their break up, merely the final straw.
To me this was the main problem.

You have to remember the mentality of a RW/FSUW with a child. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, the mentality is that it's just about impossible for a RW with a child to find a reliable husband/suitor in Russia who will love her and her child (someone else's child so the thought goes in Russia).

Her main goal was/is of course to further the raising and development of the child. Given her situation at that time compared to a perceived opportunity in another country and the possibility of love, the risk was worth taking hoping that love would follow. It just didn't happen.

Wow chivo thats quite a stretch you gleaned there from such little information about the woman. Is it not possible she as will as he were in love with each other in the beginning or maybe one was and the other wasn't? All I'm saying is even relationships with the very best of intentions sometimes just simply do not work out. This can and is possible. There doesn't always have to be a "bad guy" does there?

[Muzh]

Wow chivo thats quite a stretch you gleaned there from such little information about the woman. Is it not possible she as will as he were in love with each other in the beginning or maybe one was and the other wasn't? All I'm saying is even relationships with the very best of intentions sometimes just simply do not work out. This can and is possible. There doesn't always have to be a "bad guy" does there?

FP;

I didn't read Chivo's reply as placing blame on a "bad guy" at all. And based on what I've read from Mr. Hobbs I tend to agree with Chivo's assessment.

[Faux Pas]

FP;

I didn't read Chivo's reply as placing blame on a "bad guy" at all. And based on what I've read from Mr. Hobbs I tend to agree with Chivo's assessment.

I suppose we read it different. It seems to me that chivo is stating that the woman married Roy with the hope of falling in love later. IMO, he couldn't possibly know that. From what is stated about her, she had an affair and she is a tad bit on the greedy side opting to keep her salary and not contribute to the family finances. There may very well be ample reason why she made those choices. None of that was explored by the OP.

This is no dig at you or chivo Muzh, and we do nothing but speculate on the forum but chivo's reply seemed to me akin of turning left off the road and into the cornfield 

[Nat]

Daveman and GoodOlBoy, well, I don't wanna hijack The Natural's topic, and besides Aloe explained it correctly in general:

I think Nat is referring to the mentality that i notice around here too, you have your money, i have my money, there is no "everything is ours" mentality, at least not so much. In FSU everyone i know in family it was only "ours" mentality, never seperate accounts, only shared everything. Here it isn't so common to share everything, and i find it a bit strange.

And it's only one side of the story. Another one is obvious from the next post of The Natural:

As for the money issue. She wanted her own account as soon as she got her job. Very reasonable and normal. But I had a little trouble convincing her that she also had to use most of her money for the whole family expenses. I had a much bigger salary than her, but it was not like I was rich or anything. She wanted most of the money for herself and to save for a drivers licence.

In FSU all the money which spouses earn are "common", usually a woman manages them but spouses decide together how to spend them. It works when spouses earn equal salaries. But if a husband earns much more than a wife, it's very common for a wife to keep her salary to herself and spend it on different things (usually clothes and presents for the family - her husband, child, etc.) and husband's salary is used to pay for everything. If a Russian husband, who earns, let's say, 2000$ a month, will demand his wife, who earns 200$ a month to give 60% of it to pay for the household, and use only less than 100$ for herself (whereas he keeps around 1000$ for himself), in Russia it will be an extremely (and here goes the word you guys love) greedy husband. In Northern countries it's considered to be fair, logical and absolutely normal.
Btw, it works both ways. If a wife happens to earn much more than a husband, she will spend her money on him as well as he would spend his money on her if he earned more.

The Natural, yep, I understood that money wasn't the issue why you guys broke up, it was just a friendly advice for the future. I used to communicate with people form Finland and Sweden a lot, and I know about this difference, so I shared the information.

[GoodOlBoy]

....in Russia it will be an extremely (and here goes the word you guys love) greedy husband.

 

Btw, it works both ways. If a wife happens to earn much more than a husband, she will spend her money on him as well as he would spend his money on her if he earned more.

So Nat, there could be such a thing as a "greedy wife" in the FSU? :evil:


GOB

[JR]

Hey Mr. Natural,
Sorry things didn't work out the way you planned but it could have been A LOT worse. It sounds like you're better for the experience it's good that your relationship is cordial.
Best of everyting to you.

[Muzh]

This is no dig at you or chivo Muzh, and we do nothing but speculate on the forum but chivo's reply seemed to me akin of turning left off the road and into the cornfield 

Relax FP. I think we can discuss things in a gentlemanly way. 

[GQBlues]

As for the money issue. She wanted her own account as soon as she got her job. Very reasonable and normal. But I had a little trouble convincing her that she also had to use most of her money for the whole family expenses. I had a much bigger salary than her, but it was not like I was rich or anything. She wanted most of the money for herself and to save for a drivers licence.

What some couple do here is they usually have each a bank account where the salaries come in. Then they agree on how many % of the salary should go to the family unit and then open a third joint account for living expenses.

In FSU all the money which spouses earn are "common", usually a woman manages them but spouses decide together how to spend them. It works when spouses earn equal salaries. But if a husband earns much more than a wife, it's very common for a wife to keep her salary to herself and spend it on different things (usually clothes and presents for the family - her husband, child, etc.) and husband's salary is used to pay for everything.

My opinion on this is that this is more subjective than a cultural/societal normality. In the US, each couple have their own way of doing things that mirrors, or varies from, those above.

Folks really need to ease up on these 'cultural' stuff. It's over-rated. More times than not, it only creates division between two people who are trying to come together and live as 'one'.

Since the very first job my wife got, a part time work, she always had her pay directly deposited into our checking account. Today, even with her sizeable earning power, she still does as she always had. She told me once how impressed she was in the way I managed my life and living that she have full trust in my decisions regarding our finances.

Same account for us all throughout with the exception of 2 things: a) I opened her a holding/savings account for her own 'future' indulgences or emergent impulse "when-she-really-really-must-have-those-shoes" type of moments.

Monies I put in this are 100% dispensible 'extra monies' we generate after all the necessary obligations/expense/savings/funds are checked; and,

b) I had her 'open' a separate IRA account in addition to her 401K plan. I've been trying to get her to dabble a bit and open an eTrade account, or TD Waterhouse, just to get her acquainted with stock investments. Her progressions in her life here, personally and professionally, for herself and for us, had been both admirable and amazing.

Thus, I still need for her to be money-smart in case I snatch the pebble from George's hand and he decides it's time for me to go...

The Natural. I'm different with everyone else. Considering your state of mind and your relations with your ex, I won't be sending sympathies your way, rather an encouragement for a new beginning to both of you. May you both find balance in your lives.

Good luck.

[SMS60]

Well, the money wasn`t really a deal-breaker here. It was just one factor and I really have to say us two not feeling enough romantically towards each other, is what was wrong. But that`s alright, good thing we found out while still reasonably young.

Could you elaborate more if possible.

[Ade]

In Northern countries ...

I'm sorry but it's just silly to attribute one method or view of household economics to an entire country or region. I know for a fact that many people here have various different methods of sharing their salaries including putting both partners full salaries into a common pot and the same goes for Russia. Everyone needs to discuss with their wives or husbands what suits their situation best and come to an agreement that both parties are comfortable with.

[Misha]

I'm sorry but it's just silly to attribute one method or view of household economics to an entire country or region.

I agree. Technically speaking, Russia is a northern country as well, some would even say the northern country par excellence 

[Nat]

I'm sorry but it's just silly to attribute one method or view of household economics to an entire country or region. I know for a fact that many people here have various different methods of sharing their salaries including putting both partners full salaries into a common pot and the same goes for Russia.

Nevertheless The Natural confirmed that the thing I'm talking about was one of the issues, no?

I agree. Technically speaking, Russia is a northern country as well, some would even say the northern country par excellence 

It's not northern, it's Asian

[Ade]

Nevertheless The Natural confirmed that the thing I'm talking about was one of the issues, no?

But your problem is that you've taken a small sample, extrapolated and come an erroneous conclusion that all or most people think that way. Generalisations can be useful but only when you have a large and varied sample on which to base your generalisations. And from my quite large experience in "Northern countries" your generalisations are wrong.

[Ade]

It's not northern, it's Asian

It's also European. And a good chunk of it is as "Northern" as any Scandinavian country.

Going by what my wife tells me there're as many variations in household income management in Russia as there are anywhere else and just as many "unfair" ways too.

[Misha]

It's not northern, it's Asian

In terms of land mass to the north of the Arctic Circle, Russia as far as I know is in the lead and if it isn't it certainly doesn't come far behind in second place  True, most of that is to the East of the Urals (aka Asia) but still northern 

[chivo]

I suppose we read it different.

Ya think.

This is no dig at you or chivo Muzh, and we do nothing but speculate on the forum but chivo's reply seemed to me akin of turning left off the road and into the cornfield  

And yours seems to be from the cheap seats, so let's agree to disagree.

I'll stick with my asessment and I won't even attempt to explain why. Have neither the time nor inclination.

[The Natural]

Hey Mr. Natural,
Sorry things didn't work out the way you planned but it could have been A LOT worse. It sounds like you're better for the experience it's good that your relationship is cordial.
Best of everyting to you.

Thank you. Yes, as it turned out, it was really for the best, for both of us.
And it is a good thing we are on friendly terms. Just today she asked me if she is kind to me as she wrote the deed over to me. She meant she could have demanded the added value on the house as her settlement. And she could, and the fact that she didn`t, shows that she is basically a very decent person. She got some stuff and can use the gallery we made for her in the house. She have a key to the house which she can keep.

[The Natural]

Could you elaborate more if possible.

Sure. What I mean is that if it`s not working, the marriage, it is better to call it off and move on. She moved on a little too fast, I suppose, but I will also try and find a new wife if possible. And I want to do it before Im too old ( yes, I know the saying that it`s never to late and all that).

[The Natural]

I don't quite understand this statement. When you meet someone, either you are attracted to them or you aren't. It seems that you thought that the physical attraction would get stronger over time.

We didn`t meet before we exchanged tons of e-mails and phone conversations. We were intellectual in love but with physical attraction I believe you never know before you meet. We were attracted to each other when we met, but in hindsight, it wasn`t enough.

[The Natural]

The Natural. I'm different with everyone else. Considering your state of mind and your relations with your ex, I won't be sending sympathies your way, rather an encouragement for a new beginning to both of you. May you both find balance in your lives.

Good luck.

No sympathies necessary  Im doing fine and I wrote my little story in part to show that a divorce does not always have to be messy.

[mies]

The Natural, I admire your wisdom.
As for comments - I think both you and Nat are right. Probably if the physical attraction were strong, the money issues would not become a deal breaker. But since it wasn't, other concerns surfaced.

I fully agree with Nat, that if one of spouses, especially a wife, earns significantly less than a husband, contributing equal shares of their respective incomes to joint budget does not seem fair. In fact, it is a clear disincentive for your (ex)wife to work at all. If she doesn't work, all family expenses are covered by you, and you give her some "pocket money". If she does work - still most of family expenses are covered from your income, her contribution isn't that big, and she has tiny amounts for herself. She still doesn't feel that she earns any money, because she doesn't see these money, and has little say in deciding how to spend the total family budget. As a result, to her it looks like she works for free, because from her individual standpoint, her personal "purchasing power" have changed negligibly vs. the case when she didn't work at all.

It's a clear cultural clash. For you it seems critical that your wife contributes exactly 50% (or more) of her income to family budget. She, on the other hand, might have thought: "If I didn't work at all - my husband would have spent money on my needs/clothes etc, now I do work, he has to spend less on me. But not only he isn't appreciative of my efforts, but he also wants to take my money and decide how to spend them." In all honesty, the fact that you paid the mortgage from your income is perfectly fair. It's your house anyway.

It appears that both you and your wife have benefited from this marriage neither financially, nor emotionally (because you are used to your own way of life, and for her you probably gave impression of being withdrawn at times), nor physically (since you say that on both parts attraction wasn't that strong). So indeed this is good that it did not take too much time to figure out that both of you are better off living separately. Probably your wife is a decent person if you say her demands during divorce weren't unreasonable.

If you do not mind me asking - how big were monthly expenses for your wife and her child? I am asking this because on another russian forum I read a discussion on how expensive is it for a european man to marry a woman with a child (or few children). So i'm trying to imagine how expensive this endeavor is in Norway.

thank you.

[The Natural]

mies,

You asked how big the monthly expenses were for my wife and child. Actually, I have no idea. I never sat down and make calculations. The first year were economically harder than later, but that was basically because the second year we refinanced and bought the house. She wasn't demanding but she really wanted to work, so we were happy that she got a job after only a year.

I didn't mind spending my money on them but I can give you an example of how my ex wanted to provide for her son. I wanted to buy the boy a bicycle and my ex insisted she should pay half of it. I can understand how she felt and her desire to do her best for her child. But later on, I felt as they two became one unit and me another. I will for the future not get involved with a woman who have children from before. Better if we have one together instead.

[GoodOlBoy]

I will for the future not get involved with a woman who have children from before. Better if we have one together instead.

A very good idea The Natural.
From what I have seen of FSUW and "their" children here in the GoodOl' USA, they don't share well with their new husbands.

GOB