Evaluating Ukrainian University Transcript

[TedB]

A Ukrainian woman that I know wants to get teaching certificate in USA.

I looked at her transcripts, and the way they look is nothing like those in USA.

For instance, her major was chemistry, and her transcript shows Chemistry Theory 1390 hours.  As she explained, this is total cumulative hours.

If divided by 15 semester weeks, this would give something like 93 semester hours.

At first, this looks great, as I checked with certification board and only 42 hours of chemistry needed.

But, and a very big but, there are 14 specific courses listed that make up these 42 hours.

However, her transcript only shows 1390 hours of chemistry, with no breakdown of the topics.

I checked with WES and ECE, and they basically are no help.  They just say, send in your money and we will evaluate.  But they will never be able to evaluate if she has anything like these 14 specific courses only by looking at her transcripts.

Anyone had any experience in getting Ukrainian university transcripts evaluated; in the specific case where the transcript shows these very large blocks of hours under such general headings?

Thanks in advance

[GoodOlBoy]

I checked with WES and ECE, and they basically are no help.  They just say, send in your money and we will evaluate.  But they will never be able to evaluate if she has anything like these 14 specific courses only by looking at her transcripts.

Oh ECE will help you alright.
And do a fine D@mn job, IMHO.
You just need to pay them, because there are NO free meals here in the GoodOl'USA.
I had my wife's red diploma(s) evaluated by them and they did a wonderful job.
My wife is now a Senior Accountant/Comptroller, largely due to her academic credentials.
Two neighbors of mine here in SIB, also used ECE (after consulting with me) and as far as I know they are both VERY happy with the results that they received from them.
 
GOB
 
BTW...   to RWD TedB.

[wicheese]

Oh ECE will help you alright.
And do a fine D@mn job, IMHO.
You just need to pay them, because there are NO free meals here in the GoodOl'USA.
I had my wife's red diploma(s) evaluated by them and they did a wonderful job.

GOB,
 
Just a curious question, do you know if the evaluation is based strictly on course work or do they take into account the quality of school which can vary widely in the FSU (true here in the USA as well)?  Also, I'm guessing one needs to submit translated transcipts with the originals?
 
BTW, tell your wife congrats on those red diplomas as someone needs to show off  .

[TedB]

Thanks GOB.  But the situation I wrote about is probably different than yours.
Ukraine vs Russia; and more importantly, the way the hours were accumulated under a big category on my friend's transcript.  I read very carefully the ECE website, and basically there is nothing there in their examples that cover this situation.

Sure we could pay them money, but they won't first tell us if they can do the specific work that is needed.

Example:  Take your car in because of a noise in left rear tire.  You ask if they can find problem specifically in rear tires.  They say they don't comment on the details before you pay them money and they do their evaluation.  The outfit says just pay us $500 and we check everything out.  So you pay them the $500.  Get a report that everything is fine.    When the noise in rear tire is still there; then they finally tell you that they cannot fix rear tires.

This is the position we are encountering with the evaluation services.

No one, so far, has told us how or if they can convert the total hours into specific courses.  They just say:  Pay us money before we can start.

Need to hear from someone who has had experience with this SPECIFIC situation for Ukrainian transcripts.

[GQBlues]

TedB-
 
If I'm not following your question here, you'll need to forgive me, but what we found out with my wife's experience dealing with this was the money we paid the evaluation centers were just a waste of time and money in her (our) case.
 
My wife was continuing her studies toward her degree at the time so I don't know what your friend's situation is.
 
In any case, the point is, we paid to get her transcript evaluated by those services since we thought that was the protocol when all we really needed to do was get it translated and the Universities do their own evaluation.
 
My suggestion then will be is determine which University she'll need to attend to get her credentials (for her profession/degree), then either pay them a visit or give them a call and ask if what I'm saying here will also apply to your friend. Try this first as the most this will cost you is a phonecall or a couple of gallons of gas.
 
These Universities are more than aware of any country's academic grading systems.

[GoodOlBoy]

Just a curious question, do you know if the evaluation is based strictly on course work or do they take into account the quality of school which can vary widely in the FSU (true here in the USA as well)? 

Sorry for the   OP.
I asked my wife last night about this Wicheese and she said no, it has nothing to do with what/where University that you attend in Russia.
However, she did say that her GPA seemed to have a great deal of weight as far as course credits went.
She derived this from the fact that she received a Masters degree equivalency in one discipline from ECE and a Bachelors degree in another completely different discipline from ECE.
She spent roughly the same hours in both disciplines, but her GPA was lower in the one she was given a bachelors degree equivalency in.

BTW, tell your wife congrats on those red diplomas as someone needs to show off  .

Marina said "spasiba" for the congrats.
 
GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry again for the  OP.
But I really want to address some very good points that GQ brought up.
 

... but what we found out with my wife's experience dealing with this was the money we paid the evaluation centers were just a waste of time and money in her (our) case.

 
My information is over 7 years old and was derived from the old RWG forum.
 
Things change drastically over time so GQ is absolutely right here.
 
Also, you need to evaluate what you are trying to use this "equivalency" for.
 
If your wife is trying to enter your local University and continue her studies, you definitely need to check and see if they do evaluations of foreign diplomas.
 
6 years ago UM (U. Miami...go Canes!) did not. They sent their foreign diploma applicants out for evaluation to guess who?....WES. I found this out by talking to a counselor, when I drove Marina down to UM to take her TOEFL exam (which she passed first shot, no problems. )
 
 
Now if you are using this evaluation to try and leverage your wife into a better job, then by all means use ECE or WES to do that.

I really believe that any employer will accept these companies evaluations. ECE's evaluation credentials are impeccable.
 
For example, my 2 neighbors that I mentioned upthread were both working menial jobs. One was cleaning toilets (maid) and the other was making sandwiches here at the local Subway in SIB.
 
Since listening to my wife (and I) they have now been able to "leverage" their Russian degrees, with the help of ECE, into "decent" jobs.
One is now working for the city of Miami (administration) and the other works at our local Bank of America branch.
 

These Universities are more than aware of any country's academic grading systems.

As I said 6 years ago UM sent their foreign diplomas out for evaluation.
My wife is presently enrolled in the Masters degree program at FIU (just around the corner from us). When she enrolled (3 years ago), they also sent their foreign diplomas out for evaluation to....ECE.
 
My wife's enrollment into the Master's degree program was very smooth since she already had her evaluation(s) in hand from ECE.
 
All of this may have changed by now. I don't know. As GQ said, you need to call or go down and check with your local Uni counselor or administrator.
 
I would have to believe that ECOCKS would know something about all of this also??
 
GOB

[Steamer]

However, her transcript only shows 1390 hours of chemistry, with no breakdown of the topics.

I checked with WES and ECE, and they basically are no help.  They just say, send in your money and we will evaluate.  But they will never be able to evaluate if she has anything like these 14 specific courses only by looking at her transcripts.

This is why she must produce the course list with class descriptions.  Tell your friend to go to the university archive dept. and try to get it there.

[Muzh]

TedB-
 
These Universities are more than aware of any country's academic grading systems.

I'm not so sure about that. My wife went through the transcript translation when she was applying to Med School. She went from Mrs. to Dr. after the interpretation from WES (I believe it was them, I'd have to ask her) arrived at the school.

[TedB]

TedB-
 
If I'm not following your question here, you'll need to forgive me,  . . . . . .
 
My suggestion then will be is determine which University she'll need to attend to get her credentials  . . . . .

- - - - - -

I forgive you 

I know that most are not getting the point, because it is somewhat different.

She will not be applying for university here.

She only needs to get certified as Chemistry teacher.
She has been teaching this subject matter for over 20 years in Ukraine.

She has 93 semester hours (based on USA system) of Chemistry courses when only 42 (covering 14 specific courses) are needed for the USA teaching credential. 

But . . . . . . . .  her Ukrainian transcript shows only  . . . . I kid you not:

Chemistry Theory 1390 hours  (accumulated over 5 years)



Steamer is one who seemed to understand the situation.
However, 2 major problems with his suggestion.
1) There exists NO COURSE DESCRIPTIONS in the archives for 20 years ago.
2) Even if they did exist, ECE and the other evaluation organizations do not deal with such.  They only deal with transcripts.  Read their websites and you can see this.

This situation is why I hoped to hear from Ukrainian persons here who had faced this before; and how it was solved.

[GQBlues]

- - - - - -
....She will not be applying for university here.

She only needs to get certified as Chemistry teacher.
She has been teaching this subject matter for over 20 years in Ukraine....

Ahhh! That explains it...my wife was a continuing student thus the University she sought to attend did their own evaluation of her transcripts (didn't even looked at the one we got from the center) to 'fit' into her ensuing required credit towards her chosen degree.
 
Thanks for not giving me a 6-month gulag cushy accomodations. 

[wicheese]

- - - - - -
She will not be applying for university here.

She only needs to get certified as Chemistry teacher.
She has been teaching this subject matter for over 20 years in Ukraine.

You might want to look into what your local school districts require to gain entry.  I have known a couple of UW who have moved to my part of the world with teaching degrees and experience from the Ukraine and they were pretty much shut out of any teaching jobs and could best hope for work as a teachers aid (they both ended up working outside of teaching and going back to school for an USA based degree).   An alternative is looking at some private schools where they are more than likely willing to hire the more non-traditional teacher.   Just something to think about before she gets here!

[dbneeley]

Public school teachers are certified by the appropriate State agency rather than by the local district. Usually, they will refer someone to a particular transcript evaluation service to determine for them what necessary requirements for a teaching certificate must be fulfilled to become certified in that State.


Usually, at the very least some coursework in educational methodology will be required that is unlikely to be similar to what is available anywhere in the FSU. Occasionally, a sufficient number of requirements are lacking that the only way to overcome it is to go back to school in a degree program. Otherwise, there are various programs for the teaching credentials for those who are qualified in the subject the person desires to teach.


Fortunately, unless things have changed greatly with all the teacher layoffs, chemistry is one of those areas which is in high demand for qualified individuals.


The place to start the inquiry is probably with your local district and/or the State certification agency that can direct you to the steps for getting an evaluation they will accept. Usually, they only will work with a limited number of these evaluation agencies.


Good luck.


David

[Steamer]

1) There exists NO COURSE DESCRIPTIONS in the archives for 20 years ago.

However a list of the courses she took with grades will exsist, get this.

[Muzh]

Also, depending in which state you are, there might be thousands of unemployed teachers. Here in NY, King Andrew plans to lay off 14,000 teachers. Guess what those teachers are going to do after they pack their bags?

[TedB]

However a list of the courses she took with grades will exist, get this.

Oooopps, I gave Steamer credit for understanding earlier.   

This is the from the list of courses.  It is what is shown on her transcript.

Chemistry Theory 1390 hours   Grade:  Very good


There is only one line on transcript for Chemistry.  It covers all the classes taken over 5 years in the program.  Very good is the top wording, so like an A in our system.

` ` ` ` ` ` ` `

In attempt to avoid going around in a circle here, I will repeat my earlier post.

She will not be applying for university here.

She only needs to get certified as Chemistry teacher.
She has been teaching this subject matter for over 20 years in Ukraine.

She has 93 semester hours (based on USA system) of Chemistry courses when only 42 (covering 14 specific courses) are needed for the USA teaching credential.

But . . . . . . . .  her Ukrainian transcript shows only  . . . . I kid you not:

Chemistry Theory 1390 hours  (accumulated over 5 years)

(Note: 1390 divided by 15 weeks equals approximately 93 semester hours.)

Steamer is one who seemed to understand the situation.
However, 2 major problems with his suggestion.
1) There exists NO COURSE DESCRIPTIONS in the archives for 20 years ago.
2) Even if they did exist, ECE and the other evaluation organizations do not deal with such.  They only deal with transcripts.  Read their websites and you can see this.

This situation is why I hoped to hear from Ukrainian persons here who had faced this before; and how it was solved.

[TedB]

You might want to look into what your local school districts require to gain entry. 

Yes, we did (at the state level as David told).  That's where the info on 14 chemistry courses for 42 semester hours came from.

[TedB]

The place to start the inquiry is probably with your local district and/or the State certification agency that can direct you to the steps for getting an evaluation they will accept. Usually, they only will work with a limited number of these evaluation agencies.

We did that.  That's where we got WES and ECE and the info of 14 specific chem courses and 42 semester hours.

But I still see no way that any agency is going to be able to take one line from a Transcript and convert it into 14 courses; even though the total hours of chem she took is double the required.

WES and ECE just say "We first require you to submit your transcript and pay the money."

But I am fairly certain no one can do this, so it will just be money wasted.

I think this woman and all other Ukrainian teachers who went through the system at that time are SOL in trying to prove the specific classes they took that are aggregated on their transcripts.

However;  I keep hoping someone here knows the way around this.

Where are the UW who have become high school teachers in USA.
Tell me your stories - - - - please !!!!!

[OlgaH]

Chemistry Theory 1390 hours   Grade:  Very good


There is only one line on transcript for Chemistry.  It covers all the classes taken over 5 years in the program.  Very good is the top wording, so like an A in our system.

Academic grading in Ukraine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Ukraine

11 (excellent) is the grade that would be called A in the United States.

Academic grading in Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Russia

[Steamer]

Where are the UW who have become high school teachers in USA.
Tell me your stories - - - - please !!!!!

My wife went through this very same thing. She taught math for 10+ yrs in Moscow and wanted to teach here (Michigan). In Mich. you cannot just walk up with your degree evaluation and take the certification test; there is an entire program you must pass first. It took my wife about 1.5 yrs to complete so there were a lot of classes to take. Before they let her take any classes however she had to pass a TOEFL test.
 
As db said each univ. has a preference for a particular eval. agency so you need to know which one it is. My wife had to get a course by course transcript. It CAN be gotten if she goes to her univ. archive dept. and pays some money. When we recieved the docs. they, and her degree had to be translated by a state of Mich certified translater and notarized. Then we took this whole mess and sent it to the evaluation service.
 
 

[SANDRO43]

Academic grading in Ukraine
11 (excellent) is the grade that would be called A in the United States.

Interesting how national grading systems differ.

In my time (they changed the system a few times since then), marks from elementary to high school were 0-10, 6 the minimum to pass and 10 e lode (cum laude) exceptional.

In our Universities they still have the old system, same as was in lower schools but multiplied by 3: 0-30, 18 the minimum to pass an exam and 30 e lode exceptional. It seems that this originated from the fact that once exam grading was done by 3 professors, each using the 0-10 range, and the end result was the sum of their individual marks.

Graduation has yet a different number scale in 110ths, minimum 66 and 110 e lode exceptional. Over the top is 110 e lode con dignità di stampa, i.e. the graduation essay is judged to be worth publishing.

[OlgaH]

Sandro, is there a law that every student should pass Math first before all other exams to enter a University regardless of faculty? 

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, is there a law that every student should pass Math first before all other exams to enter a University regardless of faculty? 

Not in my time (1960s), although I had to pass a written Italian essay because I was from a Technical Institute rather than a Lyceum, and we 'technicals' were then suspected of possible illiteracy since Italian was in our curriculum only in the first 3 years of our 5.

Since then,  the number of aspiring Uni enrollees has risen dramatically, so many of our higher-level Unis have yearly admission quotas and hold admission tests, with subjects varying depending on the specific faculty. 

So it's not decreed by law, but at the discretion of the individual Unis.

[OlgaH]

So it's not decreed by law, but at the discretion of the individual Unis.

With the number scale in 110ths the Math must be a compulsory admission exam for all Unis 

[SANDRO43]

With the number scale in 110ths the Math must be a compulsory admission exam for all Unis 

That is only on the final day, so one may breeze through until then regardless .