Vincenzo's thread and Mamba debate

[Vincenzo]

How will joining a language group on vk help?
I go there, post my spam about the wife search. The spam is moderated and deleted.
Then I mail my spam every nice looking lady in the group. I have no idea if anyone in the group is looking for a foreign husband. Nobody replies.
I write witty texts spending 30 minutes each day, and eventually a 20-year-old girl wants to befriend me.
Too much work for too little success.

A high-quality girl is snatched immediately by competitors everywhere, including mamba. If you don't write to her during the very first days of her registration, she'll be gone.
A high-quality girl doesn't mean a model, but an attractive girl who is over 25 and eager to marry. Most girls on mamba are younger than 25 and they want men under 30. I don't qualify.
I have a big problem in my selection: I prefer girls who don't smoke and drink. They are extremely rare in Russia, and these are high-quality girls for me. If she prefers to go to the nature and play tennis instead of partying, that's a brilliant I can't miss.

You can say that your wife had been on mamba for ages. She was really selective.

[Kuna]

If somebody has a lot of time and patience, it may work for him.

If you don't have a lot of time and patience you should give up looking for a FSUW.

[Misha]

How will joining a language group on vk help?

If you have hundreds or thousands of women interested in learning or perfecting the language you speak as a native speaker, you should be able to strike up a few conversations 

I go there, post my spam about the wife search.

Why would you do that? You do know that it is possible to have conversations with people that do not begin with stating that you are looking for a wife. You can chat with people, have a conversation and let things develop naturally...

Then I mail my spam every nice looking lady in the group. I have no idea if anyone in the group is looking for a foreign husband. Nobody replies.

Yes, if you mail spam.... However, I see why you are having so many difficulties....

A high-quality girl is snatched immediately by competitors everywhere, including mamba. If you don't write to her during the very first days of her registration, she'll be gone.

Not true. My wife, for example, was on mamba for a year before meeting me. The thing is, she did not just want any man. She had certain criteria, and was not willing to settle. She is not alone. Many quality women in Russia do not find a man in the first months, let alone days, of their search.

[ML]

I am very sure, that  the most popular dating site in Russian speaking community- is another

So Lana, tell us what this other dating site is!!

Thanks

[ML]

Yes, Mamba is a waste of time, Anastasia is a waste of money.
I prefer something different.

Yes, if your name is Russian and you can go to a date every other day to see a new girl around the block, Mamba will work for you.

Last year in setting up a WMVM trip, I sent first message to perhaps 500 gals on Mamba in a particular city.  I wrote only in English and told that I would only meet with those who could converse in English.

I got maybe 150 replies with about 50 being in English.

I continued correspondence with about 10 of them and met with 4.

So it is not true that English only will not cut it on Mamba.

[Misha]

Last year in setting up a WMVM trip, I sent first message to perhaps 500 gals on Mamba in a particular city.  I wrote only in English and told that I would only meet with those who could converse in English.

I got maybe 150 replies with about 50 being in English.

I continued correspondence with about 10 of them and met with 4.

So it is not true that English only will not cut it on Mamba.

This is an excellent example as to how mamba is a numbers game. Some men seemingly can't be bothered to write to more than a few women and expect to immediately find the one. 

[TwoBitBandit]

Mamba is definitely a numbers game.

On my last trip to Novosibirsk I wrote to hundreds of women.  Perhaps 500 or 600.  Tons.

It's really not that much work in a good web browser.  I had a technique using the Opera and Firefox browsers to open up lots of additional tabs to help make things go quicker.  If you're methodical you can make sure you don't repeat the same ground.

I got about a 25% response rate, or around 150.  Some of those quickly got filtered down by one side or the other.  I probably ended up speaking to about fifty on the phone, then I went and met about 20 in person.

If you write just five girls you're wasting your time.

[ML]

Mamba is definitely a numbers game.

If you write just five girls you're wasting your time.

Just to clarify, this idea of a  numbers game does not apply just to Mamba.
It applies to any Internet dating site, agency, newspaper advertisement or whatever.

And I agree totally that if you write just five girls or so, most likely you are wasting your time.  Always exceptions of course, just as someone always wins the daily lottery.

Natural . . . are you reading !!   

[Vincenzo]

And I agree totally that if you write just five girls or so, most likely you are wasting your time. 

I disagree. I would rather write to 5 girls whom I see as wives after looking at their photos, evaluating their characters, hobbies, professions, etc.

Your numbers may look impressive. But I couldn't find the result. Why didn't you meet The Girl instead of 4 or 20 just girls? Why did you limit your search to one city?

How is it possible to court 20 girls at once? I spent a lot of time preparing letters, SMS messages, skyping just one The Girl. But it's a lot of joy to receive letters from her too. I definitely see her as my wife.

[Misha]

I disagree. I would rather write to 5 girls whom I see as wives after looking at their photos, evaluating their characters, hobbies, professions, etc.

Which is why mamba was not good for you. You have to write to many women, because these are invariably mostly real women, and most of them for whatever reason will immediately disqualify you (too old, too young, too tall, short, too whatever) and they won't bother replying.... In other words, it is like real life  :evil:

Your numbers may look impressive. But I couldn't find the result. Why didn't you meet The Girl instead of 4 or 20 just girls? Why did you limit your search to one city?

You can use mamba, write hundreds (or more) women and narrow it down to one likely candidate. However, until you meet, you have nothing but a pen-pal. There is no guarantee that there will be chemistry or that you will even like each other....

How is it possible to court 20 girls at once? I spent a lot of time preparing letters, SMS messages, skyping just one The Girl. But it's a lot of joy to receive letters from her too. I definitely see her as my wife.

You don't "court" all the women, but you spend time trying to find a woman where there are shared interests and hopefully some compatibility and attraction. The courting begins after you have met her and when you both decide that you want a second date  

[Alex from Ukraine]

My compliments to Misha! He really knows what he's talking about and everything he says makes perfect sense!

[Vincenzo]

In real life, nobody, except a gigolo or a sugar daddy, dates multiple women at once.
You see a nice girl, you feel attracted, and you start courting her without knowing anything about her, even if she's married or not.

Why are you so obsessed with the first real meeting? It was true for the pre-skype ages.
My first date, the second, ...the 15th were on skype. Each time I hung up with the feeling "It's The Girl".
I've stopped worrying that there is a better girl on the other search page. If you date 20 girls at once, it means that they are not good enough; otherwise, you would select one.

For my first virtual date, I brought beautiful flowers, I played my guitar, and I stared in admiration when she smiled.
There are so many ways to court a girl being thousands miles from her. But sending a bouquet is my favorite. When it arrives at her office, everybody smiles and tells her, "Your man is special."

I've been to real dates with girls from the Internet. They were very awkward because the places were unfamiliar. But they were almost the same as on skype - we were sitting at the table and talking to each other.

I know that high-quality girls prefer personalized letters. You can send a template to 1,500 girls and get replies, but a high-quality girl won't reply.

[TwoBitBandit]

In real life, nobody, except a gigolo or a sugar daddy, dates multiple women at once. You see a nice girl, you feel attracted, and you start courting her without knowing anything about her, even if she's married or not.

Then you and I simply have different dating strategies.  If I'm not in a relationship then I date multiple girls, even here in the United States.  I don't pedestalize any girl and I don't make commitments until I consider the girl worthy of commitment.

Why are you so obsessed with the first real meeting? It was true for the pre-skype ages.
My first date, the second, ...the 15th were on skype. Each time I hung up with the feeling "It's The Girl".

Skype is useful (I used it quite a bit), but I contend that you don't know anything until you meet a girl in person.

For my first virtual date, I brought beautiful flowers, I played my guitar, and I stared in admiration when she smiled.  There are so many ways to court a girl being thousands miles from her. But sending a bouquet is my favorite. When it arrives at her office, everybody smiles and tells her, "Your man is special."

There are some differences in dating behaviors between the FSU and the Anglosphere.  AFC dating strategies like you're describing will get you further with FSU girls than with American girls.  Russian guys tend to be quite a bit more 'alpha' with women, so as a beta you can stand out from the pack just by being beta.

Skype is a great tool, but if you do too many Skype 'dates' you're risking falling into LBJF.

I know that high-quality girls prefer personalized letters. You can send a template to 1,500 girls and get replies, but a high-quality girl won't reply.

Well, the first letter is always a template.  Most women on mamba don't write very much on their profiles.  They're very different than western sites like Match.com where all the women write multiple paragraphs of pointless self-absorbed drivel that you're expected to comment on.  On mamba, there's really not much text to comment on... so a canned opener works pretty well.  If a women did write something meaningful I'll often comment on it in my first letter.

The second and third letters are often similar and I often re-used portions of letters that I'd written in previous letters to other girls.

It isn't typically until around the fourth letter that true "custom letters" are required, and those are a tiny fraction of the 700 I started to write to.

And I agree totally that if you write just five girls or so, most likely you are wasting your time.

I disagree. I would rather write to 5 girls whom I see as wives after looking at their photos, evaluating their characters, hobbies, professions, etc.  Your numbers may look impressive. But I couldn't find the result. Why didn't you meet The Girl instead of 4 or 20 just girls? Why did you limit your search to one city?

How is it possible to court 20 girls at once? I spent a lot of time preparing letters, SMS messages, skyping just one The Girl. But it's a lot of joy to receive letters from her too. I definitely see her as my wife.

You can tell some things from a photo, but I can't tell you how many times a girl's behavior was totally contrary to the tone of her photo.   I didn't try to meet just "The Girl" because I don't believe you really know much about a girl until you spend time with her in person.

Meeting 20 girls is doable.  On my first weekend in Novosibirsk last summer, I met four girls on a Saturday and four on a Sunday.  I only pursued a couple of them further.  You just have to whittle down the number quick.  (In retrospect, 20 was probably too many... but 4 would have been too few.)

I limited my search to one city just because it's more convenient.  On one of my first trips I met girls in Tver, Irkutsk and Krivoy Rog on one trip just because those were the girls I had the best correspondence with.  It was a dumb strategy and a lot of flying from one end of the FSU to the other.  If all my prospects are in one city, then I don't have to travel after I get there and I have a lot of options about who to spend time with.

I don't want to restart a VO vs VM debate.  I respect the VO crowd even though I no longer do it myself.  However, I would tell every guy to WM (write MANY) regardless of VO or VM.  WMVO and WMVM are both viable strategies.  WOVO is a bad strategy.

[Vincenzo]

I still didn't get it. What do you do special during your personal meetings?
Do you invite her to dance and as an alpha male hug her all and check that she is not a transvestite?
Do you show her a stack of dollar bills and give her diamond earrings?

You've spent an hour maximum with each girl. I wouldn't consider it to be long enough for deep understanding of another person.
I would rather travel with The Girl to a beautiful place close to her city to enjoy special time together. I found that people open their souls and act friendlier on the nature.

Again, why can't you weed out inappropriate girls using Skype instead of hastily running from one girl to another?

[Misha]

In real life, nobody, except a gigolo or a sugar daddy, dates multiple women at once.

Until you meet, you are not dating.

Why are you so obsessed with the first real meeting? It was true for the pre-skype ages.
My first date, the second, ...the 15th were on skype.

Sorry, these were not dates. The thing is, no matter how much you chat on Skype, there is no guarantee that you will hit it off in real life.

[Vincenzo]

I can call it differently, for example, a prelude.

This prelude gives us both a lot of information about each other: her and my voices, facial expressions, smiles, etc. I can immediately see that she's interested in me, in everything I say or do.

Any woman expects signs of appreciation. It's very easy to send thousands of love letter templates. Their effect is negligible.
It's many times more difficult to write good letters, communicate via Skype, send flowers. It's more difficult for her too. If she invests her time in communication with me, it's a sign for me to buy a ticket and fly to her.

[Misha]

Why would anybody send love letter templates?!? It is also best not to fall in love with women you have not met...

[Patagonie]

"In real life, nobody, except a gigolo or a sugar daddy, dates multiple women at once.
You see a nice girl, you feel attracted, and you start courting her without knowing anything about her, even if she's married or not."

In real life, nobody, except a dreamer and immature guy (AFC) dates only one women at once.
You see a nice girl, you feel attracted, and you start to date her wich is the best way to know her. If she want to not  tell you she is married it's her problem.


"Why are you so obsessed with the first real meeting? It was true for the pre-skype ages.
My first date, the second, ...the 15th were on skype. Each time I hung up with the feeling "It's The Girl"."

The first meeting is the true life, some are interested by the virtual one and by porno movies. And others by real life, everybody does what he wants.

I've stopped worrying that there is a better girl on the other search page. If you date 20 girls at once, it means that they are not good enough; otherwise, you would select one.

As you don't know them at all, you cannot know that they are good material for sex, for a LTR, or for marriage.


"For my first virtual date, I brought beautiful flowers, I played my guitar, and I stared in admiration when she smiled."

Typical crash attitude

There are so many ways to court a girl being thousands miles from her. But sending a bouquet is my favorite. When it arrives at her office, everybody smiles and tells her, "Your man is special."

No she feels special, but you you are nothing, for the moment

I've been to real dates with girls from the Internet. They were very awkward because the places were unfamiliar. But they were almost the same as on skype - we were sitting at the table and talking to each other.

Internet = virtual. They were ankwark because you are probably ankward.

I know that high-quality girls prefer personalized letters. You can send a template to 1,500 girls and get replies, but a high-quality girl won't reply.

High quality girls send you many templates and you don't see it. And you continue to reply

[Patagonie]

I can call it differently, for example, a prelude.

This prelude gives us both a lot of information about each other: her and my voices, facial expressions, smiles, etc. I can immediately see that she's interested in me, in everything I say or do.

May you explain us how you recognize and understand how she is interested in you ?
Any woman expects signs of appreciation. It's very easy to send thousands of love letter templates. Their effect is negligible.
It's what you are doing in your life

It's many times more difficult to write good letters, communicate via Skype, send flowers. It's more difficult for her too. If she invests her time in communication with me, it's a sign for me to buy a ticket and fly to her.
A lot of people try to fill their emptyness, wich is a bit different

[Vincenzo]

Why would anybody send love letter templates?!? It is also best not to fall in love with women you have not met...

How is it possible to mail to 1,500 women without using templates?

If you're in love, she feels it. A man acts differently.
Why not? What's good about sitting lonely in your room? They you call her and her smile lightens the room.

[Alex from Ukraine]

Vincenzo! In Ukraine or Russia you have N O T H I N G unlill you meet the girl in real life face to face, I don't understand how can't you SEE THAT! 

[Vincenzo]

This prelude gives us both a lot of information about each other: her and my voices, facial expressions, smiles, etc. I can immediately see that she's interested in me, in everything I say or do.

May you explain us how you recognize and understand how she is interested in you ?

When she writes poetry about me and says the phrase exactly as I wrote it in a postcard sent to her a month ago, it's time to deliver her anew bouquet.
Actually, I have a home work assignment tonight. I must learn the poem she wrote about me.

[Vincenzo]

Vincenzo! In Ukraine or Russia you have N O T H I N G unlill you meet the girl in real life face to face, I don't understand how can't you SEE THAT! 

Yeah, I see it.

I would slightly paraphrase your statement:
"You have nothing until and AFTER you meet a girl face face on Mamba."
That's especially true when you hop from one girl to another without any real feelings.

[Patagonie]

When she writes poetry about me and says the phrase exactly as I wrote it in a postcard sent to her a month ago, it's time to deliver her anew bouquet.
Actually, I have a home work assignment tonight. I must learn the poem she wrote about me.

I agree this a sign of interest.
But it doesn't mean that she is interested, because nothing has started, as you never meet her.
You need to restart from the scratch (even if the "internet" realtion can improve drastically your comfort with her), when you will MEET her, and comfirm her interest.

[Patagonie]

Yeah, I see it.

I would slightly paraphrase your statement:
"You have nothing until and AFTER you meet a girl face face on Mamba."
That's especially true when you hop from one girl to another without any real feelings.

You are right you have nothing when you go from one girl to another without any real feelings. And your life will be a misery if you spend your whole life like this.
BUT you have nothing in live too until you meet her. Hit many woman the whole life without feeling is the same as having many virtuals relations without DATING hers. The same.