Re: Why FSUW Look Abroad

[Doll]

As I have written, women post their profile in the hope of finding a good match.   

They do. You just need to add one more word," They post their profile of finding a good match ABROAD". At this point this "good match" does not have name.

It works the other way too when WM look in the FSU.

[Doll]

Well said, Kuna.  And of course the same thing applies to the woman before she accepts the offer of marriage.

Exactly!

[Lily]

As for me, I wanted both to relocate, and to find a man. The latter may not depend entirely on me, while the former would likely be technically easier for me to do by myself. Si I did relocate first

[wicheese]

Skipping over a few of the rants on the first 4 pages, I'll respond with what I have learned over 13 trips to the FSU (not including 7 trips with them here and elsewhere) and several relationships. 


First, we can't use "all" and instead it's a generalization.  But, this is what I learned:


1. Many women definitely have a plan to move and that's the most important thing to them as witnessed by a former FSU girlfriend who I drop in part because it seemed like it was more about the move than me and who was married and moved to Europe only six months after I broke up with her.


2. Some are escaping situations and want to get as far away from things as possible and it's not always economics.  Probably the wealthiest FSUW I dated (pretty sure her father would qualify as a mini Oligarch) was looking to put as much distance between herself and her former boyfriend as possible which meant moving overseas (note, she ended up marrying a Russian movie producer after I ended the relationship and is happy in Moscow).


3. Some are looking to improve there economic situation without regards to who the man is.  I have been told about several cases of FSU women who did it not because of love but for money (I'm sure the husband was told it's all about love). 


4. Some have intentions of getting out of their little Russian/Ukrainian town and the MOB route is the fastest possible.  I dated one lady on EM who after I ended the relationship got a tourist visa to the USA and was still looking for her mule while she was here). 


5. Some do it because they are curious, but these might be ladies who never leave in the end (I was dropped by one RW for this very reason). 


6. Some are doing it to upgrade the type of man they can attract as they might be past their prime in the local market due to age or existing children (it's not only WM who believe the hype of MOB agencies and often this is helped by their knowing of the success of one or two of their friends).


7. They all do it for a chance at love, but the question is where is love in their priorities when they decide to post the profile as I have learned RW do not always fall in love quickly, but it's amazing how many do after just a week or two with a person most people around them would still consider a stranger. 


In short, if you want to be sure you are meeting someone who does not have a motive other than you for moving, then best not look for them on a MOB site.  You might have better luck on sites like mamba, but then you have a greater risk at their bulking at moving once they realize they'll be leaving a potential good job, family, and friends behind (but some will still make the move, but in those cases the face-to-face courtship will probably last longer than a few trips and couple of weeks), IMHO.


Also, in the end it's still a lot easier finding a nice lady in your own country...

[ML]

Thanks WiCheese for a very reasoned, non-hysterical post. 

[GoodOlBoy]

  Rather, they met and fell in love with their guy and that is why they married them. 

....can or wants to find someone to fall in love with.

GOB is surprised that some of the older more mature RW like Doll  , haven't chimed in on this particular part of the topic already.
 
I have never been able to understand the mindset of a grown man who can "meet and fall in love" with a stranger?
 
Lets face reality.
 
The average Joe involved in this caper only has a few weeks a year to devote for "face time" in the FSU.
 
Yes, yes, I know...there is Skype, e-mails, etc., but face time is the only real time you get to know a person.
 
And yes some of the older member's here are retired, so they can stay for extended periods of time in the FSU.
 
But the fact of the matter is, in order to truly "love" somebody, you have to know that person and spend a lot of time with that person.
 
Sorry, but Skype and e-mails just don't cut it.
 
Then we move on to my "favorite" subject....AGE.
 
If you are chasing a TEENAGER or a girl in their young 20's it is impossible to say with a straight face "we met and fell in love"...Oh please! 
 
I hate to burst anybody's bubble here, but FSU teenagers and young 20 yo's "fall in love" almost every other week with somebody new (Heck they are no different than teenagers or young 20 yo's living here in the GoodOl' USA  ).
 
And I am not talking out of my a$$ here Dan, I have a grown daughter.
 
That is why I completely agree with this statement made by Gator:
 

I do believe that with many fast track marriages, a high percentage of RW came here not in love, but in good faith hoping for love. 

GOB

[Gator]

FYI - met my girl on EM.

With that said, and having grilled her a bit on this topic...her first preference was meeting someone in Russis, she was active there in terms of local Russian dating... and surprisingly enough she said RM's became aware of the MOB sites and she met some RM's through EM...As for geography, the US is 4th on her list of where she would like to live.  For her, meeting the right person is first, where she lives is secondary.  I don't have any reason not to believe her.  She has certainly dated better looking and wealthier guys than me who were very decent guys she just didn't love them so she nixed it.

Who are you?  Oh, you are the man to whom GQ addressed his less than brilliant explanation on why you should not fret about your RW's moving to America.   
 
There is more that Salty could say yet does not out of respect for the privacy of his woman.  The unsaid would reinforce the fact that above all else her primary reason for moving (possibly) to America is to be with Salty. 
 
BTW, GQ was correct in advising you not to fret about any adjustment pains your woman may feel.  I don't suggest that you be like the airborne training sergeants at Ft. Bragg who seemed to take pleasure in my pain of becoming a soldier.  Be her mentor, and of course encourage her and tell her how much you want to build a new life together.
 
Perhaps I need to repeat that - GQ was correct.  Too bad he could not later write, "Oh, my explanation is possibly confusing...what I really meant to write is ....."

[Gator]

The short answer would be yes. Who else would she do it for? Did she do it for me? I'd say no. .... her coming to live with and marry me, she did for her...... In fact I would hope that she did it for her and nothing or nobody else.

I suppose this thread is making me too semantical.  Charlie Sheen certainly goes through life placing self above others.   I very much doubt that your wife is like Charlie Sheen.  Maybe she came to America to be with you because of how you made her feel.   She met nobody else who made her feel the same.  I like to think it is about feelings rather than (fill in the blank with something tangible). 

[Faux Pas]

I suppose this thread is making me too semantical.  Charlie Sheen certainly goes through life placing self above others.   I very much doubt that your wife is like Charlie Sheen.  Maybe she came to America to be with you because of how you made her feel.   She met nobody else who made her feel the same.  I like to think it is about feelings rather than (fill in the blank with something tangible).

Certainly it is. One thing that hasn't been mentioned or I haven't seen it mentioned is the progression. Few if any women had to make "ALL" of her decisions that would land her married in another country on the day that she signed on to an agency or website to check out the foreign men scene.


My wife loves me but, did she sign up on EMs for "me"? No way, she didn't know me. At the time she signed up she didn't know any man she might meet. So who did she do it for? I have to agree with GQ, she did it for her and only her, to find me. I'm not really getting why they have to be mutually exclusive in some of these guys minds and why they are threatened by the prospect.


BTW, I'd much rather that it was for herself as opposed to for someone else or for a reason other than finding a man for marriage. Wouldn't that be worse?

[CanadaMan]

I did (read the other thread) and found nothing new

Even without reading, I always say that the main reason of these international marriage IS relocation.
After "she" meets "him" it becomes more specific. but it just adds another factor to her intention to relocate.
 
 ...
  So, after all this, I (again  ) agree to the statement that FSUW have relocation on their mind first, then it is the relocation to some certain man.

 Did I do the same? Of course.

Doll if you would have read the other thread carefully you would have found something new!

You would have found that we are NOT debating whether or not a FSUW has relocation on her mind first or not, when she begins this adventure!

Many do, probably most. I AGREE. I am not questioning this. Do you understand?

What I am questioning is GQ's OTHER statements.

He stated that AFTER the woman had found her man, AFTER they were both in love, and she was on the plane to immigrate to her new country, she was doing this solely for herself!

Just to explain what "for herself" means to a typical native English speaker;
it means something very selfish, something self-serving, something that doesn't take into account other people.

Goodness knows that when two people are truly in love and they are being re-united they are doing it "for each other", to be with each other etc. etc.
not for oneself! If one thinks only of oneself in a relationship the relationship will be doomed.

[CanadaMan]

Ah, please, do not "portray" GB as chauvinistic! He is just realistic.

Doll are you by any chance married to GQ?

I wonder why you have jumped in to defend him so quickly a few times now.
He's usually quite good at defending himself.

[Maxx2]

But, from what I've seen, most women that end up on a bride site put no initial thought into leaving their country. They'll cross that bridge when they find it, which they know is most likely never (especially when it's just a job!).

Or if they come it's just for a vacation and to see if there are other opportunities.

[CanadaMan]

...The unsaid would reinforce the fact that above all else her primary reason for moving (possibly) to America is to be with Salty. 
 
BTW, GQ was correct in advising you not to fret about any adjustment pains your woman may feel....
 
Perhaps I need to repeat that - GQ was correct.  Too bad he could not later write, "Oh, my explanation is possibly confusing...what I really meant to write is ....."

Gator you 'get' pretty much everything that has been said in this discussion. I am happy about that.

It's too bad that you did not spell out what GQ didn't though.

You've got the two biggies though:

1. Don't worry too much about any adjustment pains your woman may feel about moving to the U.S. (GQ language, don't 'be a wuss').

2. The fact that above all else her primary reason for moving (possibly) to America is to be with Salty.


GQ failed to spell out that  if Salty's woman married and moved to the U.S. (2 above) she would be doing it for 'both her' and 'her husband'.

And GQ hasn't acknowledged that he never should have brought up 'marriage agency' in the first place.
He presumed (mistakenly) that Salty's woman had signed up at a marriage agency.

[Maxx2]

Sorry Jooky, but that is not true.

I have seen to many FSUW advertise for a specific region (Europe only) and sometimes a specific country (Greece, Spain, Italy, The GoodOl' USA only, etc.)
 
Hell, GOB has even seen specific states mentioned (NY, CA, FL, and my all time favorite "NO villages").
 
It is only rank speculation on my part, but I believe these particular women have a personal agenda (and it ain't "pure love").
 

I seen one say Italy and someone in the medical profession. She was in her late forties and had been on that site for years.

[CanadaMan]

My wife loves me but, did she sign up on EMs for "me"? No way, she didn't know me. At the time she signed up she didn't know any man she might meet.

FP, Gator gets it, but you still don't.

We never were disputing the intentions of women who sign up on EM or at a marriage agency.
YES THEY SIGN UP FOR THEMSELVES!
Is that clear?

Of course she didn't know you!
What woman would sign up at a site or agency if she already knew the man?

"I have this great guy that I love and everything is going fantastic, but I want to sign up at a marriage agency because I'd rather meet someone I don't know yet". Right!

So who did she do it for? I have to agree with GQ, she did it for her and only her, to find me. I'm not really getting why they have to be mutually exclusive in some of these guys minds and why they are threatened by the prospect.

FP, GQ was caught between a rock and a hard place and was simply trying to save face because he had said if Salty's woman married him and moved to the U.S. she would be doing it just for herself.

He didn't clear things up and say, "Sorry. I meant to say she simply signed up at a marriage agency for herself, that's all. Of course if she married and moved to the U.S. she wouldn't be doing that just for herself".
If he had said that, this discussion would now be moot.


F.P. if your wife arrived in the U.S. and turned out to be a self-centered b i a t c h, who only thought of herself and not about you, would you be happy?
That is what this discussion is about.

[LAman]

Doll if you would have read the other thread carefully you would have found something new!

You would have found that we are NOT debating whether or not a FSUW has relocation on her mind first or not, when she begins this adventure!

Many do, probably most. I AGREE. I am not questioning this. Do you understand?

What I am questioning is GQ's OTHER statements.

He stated that AFTER the woman had found her man, AFTER they were both in love, and she was on the plane to immigrate to her new country, she was doing this solely for herself!

Just to explain what "for herself" means to a typical native English speaker;
it means something very selfish, something self-serving, something that doesn't take into account other people.

Goodness knows that when two people are truly in love and they are being re-united they are doing it "for each other", to be with each other etc. etc.
not for oneself! If one thinks only of oneself in a relationship the relationship will be doomed.

Well Canadaman.....I have a few guys I know that would not agree with you.
How do you know a girl's real intent? Was she really in love then it just dropped off..who knows.
The guys were in love....the girls were in love...as it seemed.
After a couple restraining orders(abuse supposedly), it left the guys really wondering what was real and what was not....did she really love him? Certainly the girl knew......
 
As a for me, GQ's statement was just his opinion....it did not sway me one way or the other...I did agree with relocation part and I was sorry a couple guys took it really personally that their wives/fiancee/gf are with them 'just for themselves'. It IS possible something will/can happen ...like for a green card, for money, for another man or even for their freedom. There is a reason people divorce...nobody gets married knowing they are going to eventually divorce. I certainly hope this doesn't happen to anyone one here. IMHO.....
 

[Doll]

 
GOB is surprised that some of the older more mature RW like Doll  , haven't chimed in on this particular part of the topic already.
 
I have never been able to understand the mindset of a man who wants to "meet and fall in love" with a stranger?
 
 

The connection to this forum was bad 

As for "love". "true love". "fall in love", Russian  "brides" use all these notions all the time BEFORE they come over and marry AM. Most of them face the ugly reality like "he is not what I expected"

[Doll]

Doll are you by any chance married to GQ?

I wonder why you have jumped in to defend him so quickly a few times now.
He's usually quite good at defending himself.

I am not married to GQ and I didn't "jump". I've been saying all this for years on this board. Actually he seconds  me
I used to tell the truth why RW are on the dating sites but RWD members what to hear what they want to hear. They want to hear that all RM are drunkards so that's why RW are looking for "much better husbands" in the USA (or Europe). Part of is true, but the biggest part has nothing to do with WM versus RM.
I wrote it 9 years ago, 7 and 5 - then got bored.

[Doll]

Doll if you would have read the other thread carefully you would have found something new!

You would have found that we are NOT debating whether or not a FSUW has relocation on her mind first or not, when she begins this adventure!

Many do, probably most. I AGREE. I am not questioning this. Do you understand?
 

I do, yet agree with GQ.
No, I didn't fund anything "new" in that other thread. Same old s/// stuff

[Doll]

   Do you understand?

 

 

Just to explain what "for herself" means to a typical native English speaker;
it means something very selfish, something self-serving, something that doesn't take into account other people.
 

Thank you for defining "for herself" for Doll. 
I'll tell you, young man, what thousands of RW do after they divorce AM (that happens a lot!)- they don't  go back to Russia. They should according to you, but they don't- they get through hard times here but stay by all means (with few exceptions).

 They come here for better life "for themselves", "for their kids" and HOPEFULLY for a happy marriage.
 

[Anotherkiwi]

...I used to tell the truth why RW are on the dating sites but RWD members what to hear what they want to hear...I wrote it 9 years ago, 7 and 5 - then got bored.

Dear Doll, for those of us who weren't here 9 years ago, or 7, or 5 - please enlighten us!
 
It's interesting to me that there only appears to be a handful of "still lookings" in those who post (reasonably) regularly - myself, LAMan, ManLooking, The Natural, Vincenzo and Patagonie amongst them - and that the remainder are already married, engaged or otherwise seriously committed.  Although of course there are pearls of wisdom scattered amongst the threads, it still amazes me just how easily threads can get side-tracked as those who've already completed this journey bicker amongst themselves.  Please, guys, concentrate - I've already learnt a lot in the few months I've been here, and I'm sure that others have too, but too often you're seeming to lose sight of the ball (so to speak).
 
I would have thought that a topic such as this should have the biggest flag available, and be locked onto everyone's radar.  If we are looking to the FSU for a partner, we need to know what the women there are looking for in return - surely that's common sense?

[Doll]

Dear Doll, for those of us who weren't here 9 years ago, or 7, or 5 - please enlighten us!
 

I agree to GQ, so you can just read his posts.

[Doll]

Ok, a little bit (I have to go to work).
Like it was said, FSUW who are "available" for international marriages are the ones who decided to leave their countries long before they meet "you".
Who is this "you" was totally unknown at that point.
Same at this side- WM don't look for a certain person-they "shop" in certain countries.
It is same deal.
BTW, do you know that the first "advise" to a girl who searches "abroad" is "be careful with men who want to marry FSUW and only". Did you know about that?
It is same deal, dear.

[Ade]

Ok, a little bit (I have to go to work).
Like it was said, FSUW who are "available" for international marriages are the ones who decided to leave their countries long before they meet "you".
Who is this "you" was totally unknown at that point.
Same at this side- WM don't look for a certain person-they "shop" in certain countries.
It is same deal.
BTW, do you know that the first "advise" to a girl who searches "abroad" is "be careful with men who want to marry FSUW and only". Did you know about that?
It is same deal, dear.

Doll, not all.

I guess that this has been said before but I'll repeat it anyway.

Some will have decided to relocate and will look for a suitable man to facilitate that goal. Not necessarily a bad thing, as most of these women will still want to marry a guy that they love and respect even if the original motivating factor was to relocate. A few of these on the other hand, will probably marry the one guy that can facilitate their goal the quickest no matter if they love him or not (and probably divorce him as soon as it's convenient to do so).

For others, and I think these will be in the majority (at least it's the majority of women my wife knows in RL and on forums when this subject has arisen), the primary motivating factor will be to find a compatible partner that they can love and they will look for him regardless of location.

Of course, there will be many, many more reasons, some of which have been suggested by others, but in my wife's and her friends experiences, the above make up the majority.

[BC]

I suppose this thread is making me too semantical. 

Yeah, it's obviously easy to get all twisted in semantics.  I'm surprised so many felt 'touched' by it.