Let me see if I understand this right

[Vincenzo]

Firstly about footing the bill.
 
1. (Generally) it's a Russian culture the man pays for everything during courtship. In return he can decide where the to go and what to do. When the couple are together for a reasonable time and they have similar means the girl will foot the bill ocasionally.
 
2. (Generally) primary motivation for FSWs lookng for men abroad is economical. (Generally) a FSW has little means of assessing financial status of a man therefore she would judge his means by how he spends when with her. (Generally) the idea is if he can not afford to pay for everything then he can not afford a Russian wife.
 
Hence yes (generally) a man is expected to pay for everything.

You assume that a man must spend a fortune courting a girl.
Not really.

For example, while my visit to my lady, we're planning a couple trips near her city. It's not a problem for me to pay $500 or less for each of them. She may bring food or we may visit a cheap cafeteria on our way.

It's her vacation time too, I want to make it remarkable for both of us.
 

While most of women I think would like to work very few would be happy with your ideas of sharing the houshold bills and being equal partners. Again, they can have this at home, majority want to marry foreigners to never worry about things like this!

I've met a few married Russian women. Some of them  couldn't work due to visa permissions. All of them said that they wanted to work or study.

[Ranetka]

You assume that a man must spend a fortune courting a girl.
Not really.

For example, while my visit to my lady, we're planning a couple trips near her city. It's not a problem for me to pay $500 or less for each of them. She may bring food or we may visit a cheap cafeteria on our way.

It's her vacation time too, I want to make it remarkable for both of us.
 I've met a few married Russian women. Some of them  couldn't work due to visa permissions. All of them said that they wanted to work or study.

I do not see how my statements are contradicting yours?
 
Men are paying, as much as they can and want, this is the idea of russian courtship. A student will buy a bottle of beer to drink in the park, a businessman will pay for vacation or whatever.
 
You spend what you see fit, if your lady is happy, when you are both fine.
 
I say most women would like to work, you say all you have met. Where is the contradiction? They may want to work but are you sure they want to pay half of household bills? I do not think so.
 
Still THE MAN PAYS. The lady may occasionally contribute in established relationship.

[Ranetka]

I do not see how my statements are contradicting yours?
 
Men are paying, as much as they can and want, this is the idea of russian courtship. A student will buy a bottle of beer to drink in the park, a businessman will pay for vacation or whatever.
 
You spend what you see fit, if your lady is happy, when you are both fine.
 
I say most women would like to work, you say all you have met. Where is the contradiction? They may want to work but are you sure they want to pay half of household bills? I do not think so.
 
Still THE MAN PAYS. The lady may occasionally contribute in established relationship.

[BC]

thanks again manlooking. That is the info I am looking for. Are they ABLE to overcome some of their traditional values and adapt to an american ideology.
I am not looking for 100% across the board answer...but statistically speaking and you clearly answered it for me. Fact is when I go another country I accept there traditions and way of life. I haven't been to FSU yet, so I'm sort of in the dark on their way of life and all I read is what the "advertising" thinks I want to hear.
The more I read from the experienced ones is that at this point in my life...this is looking less and less as an option. but how do you know without asking questions and researching?
Nope I refuse to be another horror story. Already had that. I was just very curious after seeing how they "portray" the women.

SCdude,

Instead of opening a door leading to the unknown I think may be prudent to work with what you have and is familiar.  As you stated your son is #1 as it should be.  Bringing a woman and likely child into the mix can either work or end up in disaster.  It can be tough to juggle two or even three #1's.

Dating the 30's crowd with an 8 yr old son.. May I respectfully ask how long since your wife's demise?

Although not widowed, I do know the lay of the land as it regards bringing up a child with little or no contact with his mother.  Doesn't make me an expert of course, but do know well the challenges involved.

 



 

[Ranetka]

How old are you exactly? You said 40plus crowd is OK, have you ever considered 40ish childless women?
 
When I was actively dating at some point I accepted being 40 I am probably not going to have children of my own . I met a couple of single dads and thought I would had been really happy to get a ready made family.
 
I know some women in my situation who share my outlook
 
 

[Kuna]

Lots of negativity in the responses to the OP thus far:

It's important to note,  we're all on this path for some reason aren't we.  Like us,  SCdude is looking for "something else".  He may very well find it in FSU if he get's the right advice and encouragements.

SCdude - what often happens in here (especially recently) is that men are warned off this journey because it's the safest thing to do.  If you want to play it safe all your life you can,  but it's hardly the way (or the easy way) to fulfillment.

A few things...  All agencies are not bad, but some are.  Someone suggested elenas models up above.  That is good advice.  It's as close as you'll get to a normal dating site (like freepersonals.ru) with a lower scammer rate than freepersonals.

Re: your perception of women at home. 

It sh!ts me when men who are searching contradict your perceptions because if the women were so great at home why aren't they chasing them?

 Fact is this...  when I decided to search in FSU I'd had enough of local dating.  I KNEW there were good girls at home but I wasn't finding the ones I wanted to marry and raise children with.  After my wife and I met and I returned to Australia some of these girls/women said to me, "I can't believe you're settling down, I thought you were just going to live your party life forever." One or two flat out threw themselves at me and virtually threw up a challenge that if I wanted "it" (a real relationship) I could start it right there and now.  I declined of course.

After marriage and a few years down the track I've realised I wasn't finding the right women because I was not in the right social or emotional place myself.  I could have done a lot to change that at the time - but I'm glad I didn't!!!

On RW beauty: 

RW ARE more beautiful than many/most of our local options.  Anyone who says differently is either lying, blind or a bit dim.  Generically there are things about many FSUW that I like.  I especially do like they way they care for themselves better through healthy eating,  regular exercise - and the way they dress.  DON'T GET ME WRONG, THEY ARE NOT ALL BEAUTIFUL,  but even if you take an average FSUW and compare her to an average local woman you are very likely to find the FSUW is caring for herself much better than the average local will.

There are hotties at home - but they know it.  If you're on a very high income at home you can attract the hotties and a wide age gap, but you're likely to end up with the type of woman you don't want to settle down with.  I spent far too much time in my life doing that and then blaming the girls.

If you go chasing the HOTTEST of FSUW you're definitely going to find the type that expect you to be used and abused - AND ENJOY IT...  but if you're realistic and level headed about this search you'll realise finding a beautiful partner with good values will win out over a huge age gap or super-hot babe every day.

Be realistic and sensible...  focus on values and be happy with the fact she looks great...  but those looks will get you into trouble if you let them dominate your decisions.

Something said earlier is true... Traveling to FSU will get rid of all the BS and crazy theories you'll read.  Once you're there you'll realise they are different, but the same.  Once you get there you'll realise some of the advice here is spot on,  some is just nuts.  I would encourage you most of all to plan a holiday and take the opportunity to meet some women (via em's or a reputable small agency) while there.  It'll be a great holiday and a HUGE education.

Finally,  my advice on whether to do this or not has less to do with the women and agencies and more to do with you and your actions.  Some men get themselves into a world of pain on this journey but the ask for it.  I can think of one or two idiots who've been here who absolutely invited being turned into a fool, but you don't have to end up that way.

The other type of failed man is the one who goes in unprepared.  You don't sound like you'll be one of them.

Good luck

[BC]

Something said earlier is true... Traveling to FSU will get rid of all the BS and crazy theories you'll read.  Once you're there you'll realise they are different, but the same.  Once you get there you'll realise some of the advice here is spot on,  some is just nuts.  I would encourage you most of all to plan a holiday and take the opportunity to meet some women (via em's or a reputable small agency) while there.  It'll be a great holiday and a HUGE education.

More the reason to include his son, something I failed to do.  Now don't think this resulted in dissater as it did not, but if I were to go for a second round, I would heed the commandment about 'being yourself'.. after all we're not talking some single guy but a VIP as well..

[Misha]

It sh!ts me when men who are searching contradict your perceptions because if the women were so great at home why aren't they chasing them?

Good summary. When you reach a certain age you often find that the wonderful women are already married. Sometimes, there are wonderful women in other cities, but they have established careers and don't want to move, and if you have a career usually you can't either.

There are hotties at home - but they know it.  If you're on a very high income at home you can attract the hotties and a wide age gap, but you're likely to end up with the type of woman you don't want to settle down with.

It sums it up nicely. The simple fact is that it is easier to date attractive women in Russia. Go online, and you can easily find a date a night. Most men will be lucky to meet one woman they find attractive per month on their country's dating sites, while those women are easily dating a man a night if they wish. If you are a decent guy, it is simply easier dating in Russia, whereas in Canada the inverse is true IMO.

[neo]

I've not read through most of the thread as unfortunately the OP probably simply revived a number of    topics and myths about RW vs AW.


Firstly. some of the other key points in the posts are true - RW/UA women are no different than AW - women are just women, the ONLY reason you should consider fishing these waters is because there is a much bigger shoal of available fish NOT because they are somehow superior - they are not.


Across a standard demographic of women you will find everything from party girls, prostitutes, man-haters, nutters, drug users and up to decent family girls, career women and so on. you simply cannot expect to find anything different. Russian society has its own issues and social problems so you just trade one set of ills for another - materialism for psychological trauma for instance.


it just happens there is a much bigger pool of available women to choose from, therefore your statistical chance of success is RAISED (but not certain).


So lets break down your situation:


You are a widower with a young son to care for, and you feel its time you met someone knew, but are understandably wary of letting a new woman into your life who would be a problem for you and your son.


Firstly on the issue of money. this is myth number 1.


The assumption that 'the man pays for everything' only holds water in the 18-24 year old young broke student/agency pro/AMW fraternity that are generally shopping for a western lifestyle not a western husband.


I have COUNTLESS friends who have married career RW be them teachers, lawyers, accountants doctors whose partners would not dream of making them pay for everything, after the first trip they put them up at their apartments, cooked for them, picked up the metro bill. food etc. of course the 'gentlemanly thing' is to buy some flowers or a meal out to show your appreciation but generally working RW will be just as equality focused as any other, in fact when a friend got sick it was his wife going out to work and he stayed at home with the kids and she was glad to support him. so this is a myth that is only perpetrated to allow young agency girls (See my odessa thread) to live high wide and handsome off wealthy western consorts.


I believe firmly 'you reap what you sow' i am generic proof of it in i generally reap quite a bad crop through bad seed choices, having said that i have also met lots of lovely women along the way.


if you set your stall out as a widower of modest means, and are looking for a genuine woman (you are just as likely to find a woman in EXACTLY the same position as you are, i know girls as young as 22 with children who are widows because of car accidents etc - FSU is a dangerous place), as long as you are not shopping for Cindy Crawford and cut your cloth according to your means you have nothing to really worry about.


For sure watch out for the scammers, any woman worth her salt will look after your finances and ensure you pay local rates, anyone who is demanding big W.U payouts or travel money or any such thing you should dismiss. if you book your first trip with a low cost provider and choose wisely there is no reason why subsequent trips should cost you more than airfare plus 300-500 USD if she has her own place and is happy for you to stay.


i think the real trick is to try and stay positive - keep your radar on full sweep but you do have to give every woman the benefit of the doubt, you cannot start a relationship from a position of distrust - it does not mean you need to leave yourself open to scam and abuse but you do at least have to ensure that you are open to a healthy relationship that is not based on pre-conceptions or prejudice.


And my best advice - forget everything you ever read from the agencies. its a load of marketing fluff, all women are different - i will give you an example from my past:


Tuesday: meet pretty girl. she is 23 and a 'model' she wants to go shopping. she points at a 2000 USD nina ricci watch (our second date) and wants me to pay for it. oh dear i say. i seem to have forgotten my wallet. wait here. i go to apartment and get it. she says i come with you, no i tell her. you stay here and make sure they do not sell the watch. ok she says. i leave and do not return. she does not know where i live. i wonder how long she waited in the shop for her 2000 USD watch?


Wednesday: meet another pretty girl. she is 24 and a teacher. she does not speak english. she takes me iceskating on the metro. she pays for the metro. she holds my hand so i dont get lost. she pays for the ice skate hire and entry fee. we spend all evening ice skating. she is very good and tries to give me some lessons in russian. after iceskating she takes me to a cafe and buys me a coke and a pastry snack and a mars bar. she pays. she pays for the return metro ticket, walks me to my apartment and kisses me goodnight. i had a fantastic date with a teacher (who are about the worst paid people in UA) and it did not cost me a cent.


my point of the two above examples is every woman is different and has her own values and what she expects or wants. the best thing you can do is ask them when you write them what their attitudes to such things are.