Italy and Schengen visa

[Faux Pas]

My wife and I are planning a trip that includes Italy and France. These are the only Schengen countries and the prelim itinerary dictates the first stop into the Schengen zone is Italy. According to the Italian consulate website all visa applications must be in person by appointment only and is a 7-8 hour drive from our area.


My wife has a U.S. permanent residency card (greencard). Needless to say a drive to Houston is a PITA for a visa to a Schengen country. Has anyone else found a way around this little eventuality?


Is there a way to obtain a Schengen visa for a Russian national with a U.S. permanant residency?

[BC]

If it's easier, just get a French one.  Should not be a problem entering Italy first with a French Schengen Visa.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks BC. But does that present a problem if entering Italy first as opposed to France?

[Faux Pas]

Checking further on the French Consulate website which has much better information that the Italian concerning Schengen possibilities/requirements what you mentioned is possible if the longer stay is in another country. That would be possible but reading farther it would require a personal visit by appointment only and guess where? Yep, Houston. 

[BC]

Yeah, six of one, half dozen of the other.

People do change plans en route.. so doubt differences in actual length of stay will be noted.

I guess most if not all will require a personal visit.

[Boethius]

Kind of a pain, but make lemonade - plan a romantic weekend there.

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,
You might want to look at the Polish, Hungarian or Estonian web sites.
Good luck! The only thing I remember about Houston is the Mens Club!

[Manny]

Officially, the one you apply for can be either point of entry or final destination, so a French one would be fine too.


Although in practice, any Schengen from anywhere will get you into any Schengen country. That is the point of them. We have been to almost every Schengen country using only French and Estonian ones when my wife still needed visas. Now and again, on first use, they might ask you why you are entering in a totally different area. You just say your plans changed at the last minute. They will not refuse entry to a US resident. Only non-EU FSU residents are they a tad stricter with.

Get one you can apply for by mail or use an agent to get. Save the PITA journey.

[Faux Pas]

Officially, the one you apply for can be either point of entry or final destination, so a French one would be fine too.


Although in practice, any Schengen from anywhere will get you into any Schengen country. That is the point of them. We have been to almost every Schengen country using only French and Estonian ones when my wife still needed visas. Now and again, on first use, they might ask you why you are entering in a totally different area. You just say your plans changed at the last minute. They will not refuse entry to a US resident. Only non-EU FSU residents are they a tad stricter with.

Get one you can apply for by mail or use an agent to get. Save the PITA journey.

The visa is for my wife who is a Russian national. Do you know of an agent that can get one?

[Manny]

I know she is a Russian national, but she is a US resident and so will not be regarded with the same suspicion an FSU resident might. Most especially if you guys will be travelling together. I chose my words above carefully, as ever.

We get her folks (resident Russians) Schengens via travel agents in Russia to save them an unnecessary trip to Moscow. We used to get our French and Estonian ones (and I think a Maltese one too) via the mail to save a whole day trekking to London and lots of wasted £'s.

I am sure there must be visa/travel agents in the US who can handle that. I am unable to recommend one in the US though as I never needed one there. However, it might be worth getting your wife to call Real Russia in the UK. The number is: +44 207 100 7370 - they can arrange almost anything and do have partner offices in the US.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks Manny, I'll look into it.


I've already tried Travisa which is the company I've used on my last several trips to Russia. I haven't yet called them, just perused the website. Their claim is they can obtain a visa to anywhere in the world. Nothing on the website is encouraging.


Yes she is a legal U.S. resident but, this is where I am confused. Does her being a Russian citizen supercede this fact when obtaining a visa for a Schengen country? The information I am reading is I do not need a visa as a U.S. citizen. Italy and France consulate websites do not discern citizen from resident and only mentions citizen.

[Gylden]

Citizen vs. resident are different and unless she is dual citizen she will need to have a shengen visa.
People have traveled into the shengen area without a visa, through a non EU state which are in the shengen area, however it is a little risky.

[BC]

Faux

No you do not need a visa but your wife will..

Your chances for issue are 99.99 percent so its just a process...

Same when we visit the US.. Have to apply in person at the consulate.

If you want send me your itenerary.. Might be able to give you a hint or two.. Pm ok.

[ML]

I know nothing about this; but I did read somewhere that the country that issues the schengen and that you first arrive in, gets a little ticked when they find out you just make a short visit there and then move on to another schengen country.

For instance, apparently Russians can easily get visa to Finland.  So many were getting visa to Finland, changing planes in Helsinki and going on to where they really wanted to go.

Don't know how this being 'ticked' plays out.  I suppose it affects the chances of getting next visa to the 'ticked' country.

[Faux Pas]

Everything I've read points to the wife has to have a Schengen visa. I'm okay with that. The problem is the hoops they have to be jumped through to get one. The personal visit, not so bad, the setting a personal appointment, doable but it's the travel as well as the expense required to do that to a distant city.


This gives me much more respect for Russia and their requirements. At least they will let an authorized agent walk the visa application into the consulate. Doesn't appear Schengen countries will

[Boethius]

I'd hazard a guess that has to do with terrorism.  Pre 9/11, Canadian landed immigrants could mail notarized documents to the US consulate to obtain a visa, but now, US visas must be obtained by personal attendance.  I know last year, the US Consulate in Calgary didn't even accept appointments.   They processed visas one day a week, on a first come/first serve basis.

[Gylden]

I know nothing about this; but I did read somewhere that the country that issues the schengen and that you first arrive in, gets a little ticked when they find out you just make a short visit there and then move on to another schengen country.

For instance, apparently Russians can easily get visa to Finland.  So many were getting visa to Finland, changing planes in Helsinki and going on to where they really wanted to go.

Don't know how this being 'ticked' plays out.  I suppose it affects the chances of getting next visa to the 'ticked' country.

Once you arrive in a shengen country and have cleared immigration, there are no more checks at any of the borders. For example, if you fly into Italy on a shengen, go through immigration you can catch the next plane to Germany and when you arrive in Germany there is NO control. It is like flying from one US city to another. I think what you have read about a country being ticked is just some rhetoric and not true.

[Manny]

This gives me much more respect for Russia and their requirements. At least they will let an authorized agent walk the visa application into the consulate. Doesn't appear Schengen countries will

They will; just we are not certain yet that they will in the US. Have you called the French or Italian embassy in the US and asked them if they have any approved agents? We did this with the Russian embassy in London for my wife's new Russian passport (as it said on the site personal applications only) and they pointed her toward an agent across the street from them.

I just wanted to pull a few comments of those above together so we don't muddy the puddle here.

Irrespective of what passport she holds, the "yes or no" question to a visa will be virtually negated by the fact that she is a US resident. The US has much tighter immigration rules than the EU so for a US resident Russian to get a Schengen should be 99.99% guaranteed and virtually automatic as BC says. Because no risk of flight or overstaying.

Manlooking raises a point I can expand on because we have done it. Yes, many Russians get a Finnish or Baltic Schengen because they are easy to get, and then clear off to Spain or somewhere sunny with them. This is frowned upon, because the EU likes a rule, but it is almost unheard of for someone not to be granted entry after a few questions. After all, a Schengen visa is being used to enter a Schengen country.

We went all over Europe on a French one. First use was entering Holland. The guy asked her why she was entering Holland on a French Schengen first use (subsequent entries anywhere seem not to matter). She said we were planning to drive down to France later in the week. He started waffling about it breaking the rules, I intervened and reminded him of the "final destination" clause, he went away to check, came back a few moments later all sniffy and miffed with it stamped up and we were in. We went to all kinds of places on that one and never was another question asked.

However, as it was only a year in duration, when I sent off for her new French one, they returned it as an invalid application. I called them to ask why, they said because it had been "abused" as we had not used it to enter France. Big deal, we just got an Estonian one next without issue and then went to France on it for a laugh. The French are too lazy to check much anyway; they never even bothered to stamp her in.

There are 25 countries in the Schengen agreement. There is always choice. The only question that remains is, are there any third party agents in the US that process Schengen visas by mail?

[Gylden]

They will; just we are not certain yet that they will in the US. Have you called the French or Italian embassy in the US and asked them if they have any approved agents? We did this with the Russian embassy in London for my wife's new Russian passport (as it said on the site personal applications only) and they pointed her toward an agent across the street from them.

I just wanted to pull a few comments of those above together so we don't muddy the puddle here.

Irrespective of what passport she holds, the "yes or no" question to a visa will be virtually negated by the fact that she is a US resident. The US has much tighter immigration rules than the EU so for a US resident Russian to get a Schengen should be 99.99% guaranteed and virtually automatic as BC says. Because no risk of flight or overstaying.

Manlooking raises a point I can expand on because we have done it. Yes, many Russians get a Finnish or Baltic Schengen because they are easy to get, and then clear off to Spain or somewhere sunny with them. This is frowned upon, because the EU likes a rule, but it is almost unheard of for someone not to be granted entry after a few questions. After all, a Schengen visa is being used to enter a Schengen country.

We went all over Europe on a French one. First use was entering Holland. The guy asked her why she was entering Holland on a French Schengen first use (subsequent entries anywhere seem not to matter). She said we were planning to drive down to France later in the week. He started waffling about it breaking the rules, I intervened and reminded him of the "final destination" clause, he went away to check, came back a few moments later all sniffy and miffed with it stamped up and we were in. We went to all kinds of places on that one and never was another question asked.

However, as it was only a year in duration, when I sent off for her new French one, they returned it as an invalid application. I called them to ask why, they said because it had been "abused" as we had not used it to enter France. Big deal, we just got an Estonian one next without issue and then went to France on it for a laugh. The French are too lazy to check much anyway; they never even bothered to stamp her in.

There are 25 countries in the Schengen agreement. There is always choice. The only question that remains is, are there any third party agents in the US that process Schengen visas by mail?

Manny, talk about "muddy water", where were the French supposed to stamp her in? There are no border controls between shengen countries. The French can be arrogant at times, however your wife was completely within her rights to enter Holland first as you pointed out and it is not an abuse.
 
The answer to FP's question is yes she needs a shengen visa. Dissapointingly they might have to travel to Houston to get it. The absolute best/proper country to apply for it would be either Italy or France.
 
Other than that, just trying to help folks understand about the shengen zone. The intention of the zone is to allow "free travel" between the member countries. Hence no border controls. My wife and I just got back from a tour starting in Italy, we drove through Austria, Switzerland and then flew to Greece for a weekend. No where were there any border controls. It's like driving from California to Nevada. Over the last 7 or 8 years we have been to almost all of the shengen countries and it has allways been the same, no checks.
 
Hope this helps to clear up some things.

[BC]

www.travisa.com

Houston 4550 Post Oak Place, Suite 251, Houston, TX 77027
Tel (713) 961-3500
Fax (713) 961-3506

Might want to give these folks a call.

[Manny]

Manny, talk about "muddy water", where were the French supposed to stamp her in? There are no border controls between shengen countries.

Gylden, they should have stamped her into France from the UK; we are not in the Schengen. I perhaps should have clarified that. (we spend time in the UK and Estonia).

However, what is typical with the French when driving from the UK, is you hold up two red passports (not even opened, just wave them as you drive slowly by) and they just wave you through. Well, Russian passports are red too...........

[Gylden]

Manny,
I guess I was just confused, because in your post you said: "We went all over Europe on a French one. First use was entering Holland."
 
 

[Faux Pas]

Well no luck. Italy and France both require personal appointments by the applicant to the consulate an will not accept any applications from 3rd party. I called the consulate directly as well as the guy at Travisa. It would appear there is no getting around a personal visit to Houston which in this case increases the cost of obtaining the Schengen visa by 3-400 bucks. Not including the time to do so.


Manny, I see your point as trying to obtain one from another country that may be easier to deal with. That would be a little risky for me as France and Italy were the only two Schengen countries we had planned to visit. Changing the locations would involve more expense and if we listed another country with Schengen but tried to enter Italy or France first, I expect we'd be soliciting more hassle which is what I am attempting to avoid.


Boethuis, I dunno. I've been to Houston many times and under these forced conditions, I might find it difficult to make a romantic getaway out of it, but who knows? 

[BC]

Gylden, they should have stamped her into France from the UK; we are not in the Schengen. I perhaps should have clarified that. (we spend time in the UK and Estonia).

However, what is typical with the French when driving from the UK, is you hold up two red passports (not even opened, just wave them as you drive slowly by) and they just wave you through. Well, Russian passports are red too...........

Is often the case even driving through Switzerland.  We didn't even flash them, they stopped us only to pay for the sticker.

Of course now days it's cheaper to fly than pay gas and tolls so it's been a few years.

[Manny]

Manny,
I guess I was just confused, because in your post you said: "We went all over Europe on a French one. First use was entering Holland."

Yes, we go to Holland on the Hull to Rotterdam ferry from the UK.


Faux Pas, I appreciate using one from another member state may be a hassle you might want to avoid (or no hassle at all - depends on the guy on the day). Looks like you are going to Houston then.