Sending a "gift" to someone in the Ukraine

[Admin]

Kineo,

Chiming in on this, I'll first point you to the "RWD Ten Commandments" found at this link -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=34 -- (look at the bottom of each page and you will see it).

The first item on the list is - Never send money to someone you have not met.

As a general rule, this remains valid - AND - I should point out it would be valid if you were meeting someone in another state/province of your own country or even another city just a short distance away - with focus on the NOT having met part. The rule is established to minimize the probability of scamming activity and is based on the principle that if you never send someone money, they can never scam you out of your money. Simple as that.

Now . . . as you can see in the debate preceding this post, there are others who hold differing opinions. While RWD has commemorated those 'rules' or 'guidelines' (or whatever you want to call them) we consider to be the most important into the "Ten Commandments" - they are FAR from the literal "command." Instead, one is urged to exercise your own judgment - always. Only you know the interactions between you and the lady involved. Only you know the specifics of your financial wherewithall. Only you know if your likely response to being scammed out of some $$ would be to whine about it (it does not get much sympathy here BTW). Ultimately, it is YOUR call and the members above who are offering suggestions are speaking from THEIR life experiences which may be quite different from yours.

At RWD over the years we have seen the clear and unequivocal scamming pattern where someone will drop a hint - or even make a bold request - for money or gifts. The ladies in Ukraine are typically pretty smart, and they are also aware of the scammers. I daresay there are not too many young women in Ukraine who are unaware of foreign marriages and they probably all know some friends or friends of friends who actively scam foreign men. For that reason, at least, the sincere ones will avoid any hint of scamming activity. The sincere ones genuinely want to find a life partner and do not want to 'scare away' anyone with true potential. As in anything, there are exceptions. The "Ten Commandments" were established to help our members in dealing with the vast majority of instances - not those rare exceptions. And BTW - you might be shocked to spend some time here and see how frequently new members claim they, or their overseas penpal, are one of the exceptions. It happens all the time.

Best of luck to you.

- Dan

[myheart2ukraine]

Boy, so what is it? Trying to get some clients by calling them Dumbo and asking them to send the new russian girls money? Are you taking a cut out of this? The other list told you to take a hike because of your antagonism. Very bad for business. It's your neck. I don't care either way.

now now girls stop getting your knickers in a big twist
muzh i (MH2U) did not say americans are dumbo the elephant, i say again 2 your small brain it was l`viv woman saying this 2 me, no fool like an old fool is there muzh
boethius i only replied 2 faux pas with his coool word  bullshyte 2 me any reader can see that why cannot you
now back 2 the topic viewing guys, MH2U says again send your western town/village ukrainian woman a little $ she needs it & you stop this nonsense of dumbo the elephant being an american
myheart2ukraine     

[Boethius]

It is not open for debate, MH2.  You were over the line.

[Admin]

now now girls stop getting your knickers in a big twist
muzh i (MH2U) did not say americans are dumbo the elephant, i say again 2 your small brain it was l`viv woman saying this 2 me, no fool like an old fool is there muzh
boethius i only replied 2 faux pas with his coool word  bullshyte 2 me any reader can see that why cannot you
now back 2 the topic viewing guys, MH2U says again send your western town/village ukrainian woman a little $ she needs it & you stop this nonsense of dumbo the elephant being an american
myheart2ukraine     

MH2U and Muzh,

Feel free to send a PM to Boethius and/or me to address the obvious antagonism you feel toward one another - BUT - do NOT allow that antagonism to spill out into the open forum and pollute other member's topics.

Play nice 

- Dan

[myheart2ukraine]

Kineo,

Chiming in on this, I'll first point you to the "RWD Ten Commandments" found at this link -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=34 -- (look at the bottom of each page and you will see it).

The first item on the list is - Never send money to someone you have not met.

As a general rule, this remains valid - AND - I should point out it would be valid if you were meeting someone in another state/province of your own country or even another city just a short distance away - with focus on the NOT having met part. The rule is established to minimize the probability of scamming activity and is based on the principle that if you never send someone money, they can never scam you out of your money. Simple as that.

Now . . . as you can see in the debate preceding this post, there are others who hold differing opinions. While RWD has commemorated those 'rules' or 'guidelines' (or whatever you want to call them) we consider to be the most important into the "Ten Commandments" - they are FAR from the literal "command." Instead, one is urged to exercise your own judgment - always. Only you know the interactions between you and the lady involved. Only you know the specifics of your financial wherewithall. Only you know if your likely response to being scammed out of some $$ would be to whine about it (it does not get much sympathy here BTW). Ultimately, it is YOUR call and the members above who are offering suggestions are speaking from THEIR life experiences which may be quite different from yours.

At RWD over the years we have seen the clear and unequivocal scamming pattern where someone will drop a hint - or even make a bold request - for money or gifts. The ladies in Ukraine are typically pretty smart, and they are also aware of the scammers. I daresay there are not too many young women in Ukraine who are unaware of foreign marriages and they probably all know some friends or friends of friends who actively scam foreign men. For that reason, at least, the sincere ones will avoid any hint of scamming activity. The sincere ones genuinely want to find a life partner and do not want to 'scare away' anyone with true potential. As in anything, there are exceptions. The "Ten Commandments" were established to help our members in dealing with the vast majority of instances - not those rare exceptions. And BTW - you might be shocked to spend some time here and see how frequently new members claim they, or their overseas penpal, are one of the exceptions. It happens all the time.

Best of luck to you.

- Dan

thanks admin for all this advise 2 newbies & MH2U agrees with most of it but it sure seems dated
time has moved on now & 2 all you newbies it is the scammer agency you had better watch-out for, not some small village/town ukrainian woman
MH2U     

[Muzh]

MH2U, no profanity, please as it is a violation of the TOS.

Oh boy, here we go again.

[Admin]

thanks admin for all this advise 2 newbies & MH2U agrees with most of it but it sure seems dated
time has moved on now & 2 all you newbies it is the scammer agency you had better watch-out for, not some small village/town ukrainian woman
MH2U     

MH2U,

That is OK for you to disagree. To support my position I would first appeal to the common sense of the reader. It was only 2 or 3 days ago that one of the major news programs (20/20 or Nightline) ran a piece on the dangers of internet dating. I was expecting another blast directed toward cross-cultural meetings and IMBs, but they focused on Match.com and domestic meetings. Many, though not all, of the 'victims' were women. Further - and maybe more fundamentally - ask YOURSELF if YOU would ever hint or suggest or ASK someone whom you have never met to send you gifts or money? Would you? If YOU would not - it ought to raise questions for you about why someone else WOULD do that. Those are the obvious common sense appeals.

There can be no dispute of the fact that if a person does not send money, they cannot be scammed (financially). Look through RWD and other similar fora and review the number - and especially the shrill volume (as in decibels) of those who cry scam. If it were not sad, it would be funny. Some have referred to it as 'social Darwinism' - and they may have a point.

You focus attention on the scamming agency and away from the scamming individual. The argument is a bit soft as without individuals willing to scam, the agencies who employ and encourage them would have little success. Furthermore, if you've spent much time in the FSU you will recognize that the culture there is one in which people are quick to identify where they are able to maximize their income and work to eliminate middle-men from the equation. It works that way in western countries as well - though there are more legal protections to the western organizations. Not so in Ukraine and Russia - so those folks when given the opportunity will take what they learned about scamming and migrate to individual operations where they are able to keep the whole roll instead of the percentage granted them by the middle-men. My point is to suggest that a focus on IMBs with blinders as to individual scammers would expose that person to great risk of being scammed. Return to point # 1 - if you do not send money, there is no scam. Period.

Nothing out of date about the counsel. Just different than your own - but it *is* RWD's - for those reasons stated above (and others that have been stated by countless members over the years).

- Dan

[I/O]

i would send her a little $ if i was you so then she can buy whatever.

Dumb advice.

Treat that advice with extreme caution. Most here would advise you to do nothing of the sort with a lady you haven't even met yet.

Solid advice.

I see this all the time from experienced (read: already married, or been there, done that) guys, but I think that times are changing ever so slightly.

Yep, times they are a'changin', more idiots having their stupid arses handed to them and less of them with the courage to fess up. Take Kunas cue, a 'snail mail' letter trumps all, even now, try several of them if you are serious.

[myheart2ukraine]

Dumb advice.

time, time again american guy ends up sightseeing in kiev/krim taking very nice photos of ukraine i must say;
after spending thousands of $ meeting the wrong woman. dumb trip, dumb advise from I/O
MH2U knows there is many a guy with the intelligence in past/future 2 get that woman with a little $ 2 them
remember take I/O`s advise & you might just miss out on your dream ukrainian woman but you will at-least have a dumb trip taking this advise from a dumb person
MH2U     

[Admin]

time, time again american guy ends up sightseeing in kiev/krim taking very nice photos of ukraine i must say;
after spending thousands of $ meeting the wrong woman. dumb trip, dumb advise from I/O
MH2U knows there is many a guy with the intelligence in past/future 2 get that woman with a little $ 2 them
remember take I/O`s advise & you might just miss out on your dream ukrainian woman but you will at-least have a dumb trip taking this advise from a dumb person
MH2U     

MH2U,

Consider this a bit of 'friendly' advice - if you should persist with referring to other members as "dumb" - or other pejorative terms - your time here at RWD is going to be rocky (or brief) indeed.

I firmly suggest you restrict your comments to focus on the issues being discussed, as opposed to trying to support your point by calling others "dumb."

If you are unclear about any of this, feel free to send me a PM. Otherwise, I trust we have seen the last of your insulting commentary.

- Dan

[Anotherkiwi]

AKiwi

Valid points...

First, IF you have no problems sending money with a no-strings-attached condition feel free to disregard the no-send-any-money advice. But look at these forums and you'll see guys bitching they were scammed because they sent the lady thousands of $$$ and she walked away. In many instances the girl was way out of his league and he probably thought that he could buy her love with gifts and money. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME HERE OR THERE (for the peanut gallery) You know the old saw: A fool and his money...

The other point I was going to make is that many of the good ones (not all) will feel ashamed of taking a stranger's money before they meet, specially after spending some time chatting on the phone, skype, email, etc. If there is some rapport between both of you she will try to show you that she can handle herself well; after all she managed to survive this long without you.

Bottom line, send money expecting nothing in return...

I totally agree, and I would never, EVER send money with the thought of bitching about the lady being a scammer if it all went sour.  Just to reiterate: I sent the money as a gift to buy a web-camera because she didn't yet have Skype (value about $35, and way less expensive than buying flowers) and to buy bus and train tickets from her city in Ukraine to where we were going to meet in Russia (it was easier from my Russian visa perspective to meet in Russia first, rather than Ukraine).
 
Of course I thought about the possibility of being scammed, but I didn't seriously consider it because of the amount involved.  Buying the camera (my suggestion, not hers) certainly improved the relationship, because it meant we didn't have to rely on her agency for Skype calls - we had done that once, but both felt very uncomfortable.  It made life much easier for when we finally met.  The fact that we parted ways after a week together was nothing to do with money, even though, as I posted in one of my very early contributions, she didn't pay for anything at all on the trip - the little bit of chemistry which we felt upon meeting was never going to be enough to sustain a relationship, and difficulties in communication certainly didn't help.  I don't begrudge the money I spent on her, as I'm sure many other people here don't begrudge whatever they spent on unsuccessful trips - I just hope to have better luck with the next one I meet. 

[Ade]

time, time again american guy ends up sightseeing in kiev/krim taking very nice photos of ukraine i must say;
after spending thousands of $ meeting the wrong woman. dumb trip, dumb advise from I/O
MH2U knows there is many a guy with the intelligence in past/future 2 get that woman with a little $ 2 them
remember take I/O`s advise & you might just miss out on your dream ukrainian woman but you will at-least have a dumb trip taking this advise from a dumb person
MH2U     

The guys saying it's dumb advice are married; that should tell you something. I'll be another married guy adding my voice and say that I agree that it's generally dumb advice. Sending money to someone you've not met will, at worse, add to a scammer's coffers and at best, show you as someone that's a little slow on the up take and it will lose you respect with most women worth persuing. Even small amounts multiplied by numerous silly Western men will make the effort worthwhile to a scammer - only $35 for a webcam... and how many "webcams" does she have I wonder...

Of course, there may very well be situations where this guidance can be ignored, but they will be the exception.

[Rubicon]

now now girls stop getting your knickers in a big twist
muzh i (MH2U) did not say americans are dumbo the elephant, i say again 2 your small brain it was l`viv woman saying this 2 me, no fool like an old fool is there muzh
boethius i only replied 2 faux pas with his coool word  bullshyte 2 me any reader can see that why cannot you
now back 2 the topic viewing guys, MH2U says again send your western town/village ukrainian woman a little $ she needs it & you stop this nonsense of dumbo the elephant being an american
myheart2ukraine     

Sounds to me like you live in a cartoon world.  Sending money to a woman you have never met is a very very bad idea.  New people--don't do it.  If you do go to FSU you will have plenty of opportunities to spend money on your lady.  It is expected and traditional that the man will pay for everything when courting a lady IN PERSON.  Sending money to a photo you could be sending money to Boris who is pretending to be Natasha. 

And after meeting a lady I personally do not believe in financially supporting her to the tune of several hundred dollars a month or more while you are in the West and she is in the East.  Some older unnamed men do that for real young women they hope to keep on the hook.  IMO a woman should be able to stand on her own two feet prior to marriage, and hopefully within a short adjustment period after marriage and relocation to the west if that is the plan; she will contribute in one way or another.

[I/O]

MH2U: Your comments are reactionary and impulsive at best, bordering on idiotic at worst. For the record, the women I visited anywhere, home, Russia, Ukraine or anywhere else had a much higher price than a couple of lousy dollars but if that's your scene, be my guest, you're welcome to that level of quality (or lack there of).
 
I'm not interested in advising "American" photographers but again, if that's your drum, go right ahead and beat it as loudly as you wish. A woman who can be "bought" for $2 isn't going to appeal to most who frequent RWD and certainly never appealed to me. Again, feel free to pedal advice to that market but I'd be remiss in not mentioning, this isn't it.

Seeing as you have tried the nationality line, poor form indeed in my opinion but seeing as you laid it out there, I'm not American and I dislike many things which happen in America but by the same token, it remains one of, if not THE most desirable places on earth to live. Believe me, that's load coming from me as I enjoy a lifestyle you could only dream of. Your attempt at an “us versus them” on intellectual grounds smacks of the not untypical jealousy I've observed in Ukraine more than once. It’s quite unbecoming.


Finally, it's a fair bet I've seen more of the FSU and surrounds than you ever will and have gained a broad insight along the way. Sending a few ridiculous dollars to someone whom you've never met and is of a class to be taken in by something like that is a fruitless exercise as rarely would such a class of women ever make long term wife material. The local "intelligent" guys have already decided that haven’t they……………

[Jooky]

mh2u,
Is it normal for a Ukranian man to send money to women he's never met in person?

[Daveman]

Kiwi, Muzh, M2 and other have some decent points in this thread.


My suggestion is to do whatever you want and feel is right.  There is a distinct and even drastic difference between sending a woman with whom you've been communicating a gift or even some money and trying to buy her and/or catch her with your wallet.  IF you have been communicating for some time, and you want to send her something - then simply do it.  If you're worried that she's a scammer then obviously you aren't ready to do such a thing anyway.


Sure there is always a risk sending a gift or money to someone you haven't met - and a risk of sending money to one you have met, and a risk of dating an honest woman and spending a bunch of money during the course and having it blow up in your face, and the risk of getting married and having it not last thus wasting ALLLLL that money along the way...  so heck, the cheapest way is just to send some money up front and forget the rest! 


Yeah, if a woman is asking for money, something is probably amiss.  If you're trying to impress a woman with money then a specific type of woman will be impressed.  Be natural, whatever, however, and whenever that is.


It has been said so many times something like "an RW will not have emotions before meeting and will keep her options open, date others, etc" or whatever.  As with any generality that's both true and false.. they can have the same dreams and girlish tendencies as any other women and especially so the good ones that you would want to catch.


Do whatever you want when you want and how you want.  Just don't cry and moan about scammers later if things don't pan out the way you want.  The "commandment" exists for a good common sense reason.  There's no cure for the common idiot.

[Kuna]

The "commandment" exists for a good common sense reason.  There's no cure for the common idiot.

Dave,

The commandment says sent no money... you're saying something quite different.

Your advice is parallel to a protestants view of Christianity compared to an Orthodox Christian.  Female "Priests", gay marriage,  abortion is OK as long as the woman chooses, etc...  Hard to tell when protestants become cults and hard to tell where a well intentioned man becomes a fool.

My suggestion is to do whatever you want and feel is right. 

This is the problem...  do you think men are sending money if they don't think it's right???

I'd suggest a healthier position to take,  whether it's well intentioned or not is SEND NO MONEY TO SOMEONE YOU'VE NOT MET IN PERSON.

If people took your advice the next discussion would be "How much money is appropriate... send too little you look cheap - send too much you ARE trying to buy affection.

I don't know why "send no money" is such a difficult concept for some men to deal with???

IF you have been communicating for some time, and you want to send her something - then simply do it.

Why not flowers?  When does money become an acceptable gift?

How many local women have you met online and sent money to them?

Why would someone consider sending money in the first place?

Poor destitute woman seeking husband for easier life?  Not even a great reason for seeking a relationship anyway!

Sure there is always a risk sending a gift or money to someone you haven't met - and a risk of sending money to one you have met, and a risk of dating an honest woman and spending a bunch of money during the course and having it blow up in your face, and the risk of getting married and having it not last thus wasting ALLLLL that money along the way...  so heck, the cheapest way is just to send some money up front and forget the rest! 

I detect the humour - but now I don't know if you were taking the p!ss the whole way through?

I think maybe you were joking the whole way through but this is the only bit that actually sounded humourous.

Be natural, whatever, however, and whenever that is.

This is good advice - albeit hidden in a long and confusing joke.

If it is natural for a man to meet a local woman online and send her money then GO FOR IT.

If he normally meets women in bars/pubs/clubs and he hands over money then he's doing the natural thing.

If he met a former love interest in the supermarket or at the library and said, "Here's $100 - want to hang out for a few days and see if we're compatible?" then he's being true to himself.

I just don't think these things happen in real life and men thnk sending money "MIGHT" be a positive step in courting.

Personally,  I can't think of any benefits from sending money to someone you've never met - whether she is a scammer or not.


Of course,  I've only done this (sought a FSUW for a serious relationship) once so I might be completely deluded...  but I can't get my head around the reason why a man would send money (any amount) or a gift (except some token gift) to someone he's not yet met.

[Daveman]

Kuna,


The religious analogy is lost on me as I'm probably anathema to you as an agnostic (not quite entirely true, but close enough).   I did get the point about "well intentioned" and "fool".  This venture ain't and never will be rocket science. It will always boil down to a boy and a girl and how they relate together.  As with any boy/girl pair - most will "date" and not make it to marriage. And if/when they don't, the accusations begin.


my comments rather coincide with Muzh's thoughts here:

First, IF you have no problems sending money with a no-strings-attached condition feel free to disregard the no-send-any-money advice. But look at these forums and you'll see guys bitching they were scammed because they sent the lady thousands of $$$ and she walked away. In many instances the girl was way out of his league and he probably thought that he could buy her love with gifts and money. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME HERE OR THERE (for the peanut gallery) You know the old saw: A fool and his money...


The other point I was going to make is that many of the good ones (not all) will feel ashamed of taking a stranger's money before they meet, specially after spending some time chatting on the phone, skype, email, etc. If there is some rapport between both of you she will try to show you that she can handle herself well; after all she managed to survive this long without you.


Bottom line, send money expecting nothing in return.

Bottom line under that bottom line is:


The commandment is there for a reason.  Many have broken one or more of the commandments and have been successful doing so.  Use your own common sense and good judgement.. and if you choose to break a commandment (and they sometimes will regardless), such as sending money, do so as any other gift - no strings attached and without expectation of a return on your investment - and if things don't work out as planned - don't come back crying and moaning about it or accuse her of being a scammer because you sent money and ultimately didn't get the girl.  Send anything at your own risk and take the responsibility.


Is it wise to send money to a woman you've never met?  Duh... why in the world men in their 30's plus need to be told the answer to that question, or that it is in need of some kind of debate is beyond comprehension... 

[myheart2ukraine]

MH2U: Your comments are reactionary and impulsive at best, bordering on idiotic at worst. For the record, the women I visited anywhere, home, Russia, Ukraine or anywhere else had a much higher price than a couple of lousy dollars but if that's your scene, be my guest, you're welcome to that level of quality (or lack there of).
 
I'm not interested in advising "American" photographers but again, if that's your drum, go right ahead and beat it as loudly as you wish. A woman who can be "bought" for $2 isn't going to appeal to most who frequent RWD and certainly never appealed to me. Again, feel free to pedal advice to that market but I'd be remiss in not mentioning, this isn't it.

Seeing as you have tried the nationality line, poor form indeed in my opinion but seeing as you laid it out there, I'm not American and I dislike many things which happen in America but by the same token, it remains one of, if not THE most desirable places on earth to live. Believe me, that's load coming from me as I enjoy a lifestyle you could only dream of. Your attempt at an “us versus them” on intellectual grounds smacks of the not untypical jealousy I've observed in Ukraine more than once. It’s quite unbecoming.


Finally, it's a fair bet I've seen more of the FSU and surrounds than you ever will and have gained a broad insight along the way. Sending a few ridiculous dollars to someone whom you've never met and is of a class to be taken in by something like that is a fruitless exercise as rarely would such a class of women ever make long term wife material. The local "intelligent" guys have already decided that haven’t they……………

MH2U see`s aussie land is still full off pom lovers & so main it remain so, so forever & ever. I/O you need 2 go get your eyes tested & quickly for MH2U did not write $2 (there is a dummy born every-minute i still see) i said send a little $ 2 your woman ,this around $100 is not going 2 break anybodies bank

MH2U gives it 2 you live from ukraine, from the city streets/towns/villages of ukraine not from this pom loving aussie in aussie-land with his little dream world. please book me a ticket on the next prison ship leaving london for aussie-land I/O, for this would be the only way you would get me 2 your aussie-land  & you so called dream lifestyle you have

here another ukrainian sayings.... BIN IT: i MH2U bins your aussie dream life style I/O much, much, muchch

such is life here in ukraine ma-ties, so remember bin these dinosaurs who live everywhere except ukraine & are totally out of touch with ukrainian living but sure love there dream world of aussie-land or where ever

myheart2ukraine     

This user is now on the watch list and has been officially warned for continued ToS violations - Daveman

[Ade]

MH2U see`s aussie land is still full off pom lovers & so main it remain so, so forever & ever. I/O you need 2 go get your eyes tested & quickly for MH2U did not write $2 (there is a dummy born every-minute i still see) i said send a little $ 2 your woman ,this around $100 is not going 2 break anybodies bank

MH2U gives it 2 you live from ukraine, from the city streets/towns/villages of ukraine not from this pom loving aussie in aussie-land with his little dream world. please book me a ticket on the next prison ship leaving london for aussie-land I/O, for this would be the only way you would get me 2 your aussie-land  & you so called dream lifestyle you have

here another ukrainian sayings.... BIN IT: i MH2U bins your aussie dream life style I/O much, much, muchch

such is life here in ukraine ma-ties, so remember bin these dinosaurs who live everywhere except ukraine & are totally out of touch with ukrainian living but sure love there dream world of aussie-land or where ever

myheart2ukraine     

This user is now on the watch list and has been officially warned for continued ToS violations - Daveman

One major point you seem to be missing is that any woman that requires these monetary gifts, "sincere" or not, is not worth pursuing.

But perhaps you are ignoring this for a reason. As someone else asked, are you getting a cut of the profits?

[Rubicon]

Dave,

The commandment says sent no money... you're saying something quite different.

Your advice is parallel to a protestants view of Christianity compared to an Orthodox Christian.  Female "Priests", gay marriage,  abortion is OK as long as the woman chooses, etc...  Hard to tell when protestants become cults and hard to tell where a well intentioned man becomes a fool.
This is the problem...  do you think men are sending money if they don't think it's right???

I'd suggest a healthier position to take,  whether it's well intentioned or not is SEND NO MONEY TO SOMEONE YOU'VE NOT MET IN PERSON.

If people took your advice the next discussion would be "How much money is appropriate... send too little you look cheap - send too much you ARE trying to buy affection.

I don't know why "send no money" is such a difficult concept for some men to deal with???
Why not flowers?  When does money become an acceptable gift?

How many local women have you met online and sent money to them?

Why would someone consider sending money in the first place?

Poor destitute woman seeking husband for easier life?  Not even a great reason for seeking a relationship anyway!
I detect the humour - but now I don't know if you were taking the p!ss the whole way through?

I think maybe you were joking the whole way through but this is the only bit that actually sounded humourous.
This is good advice - albeit hidden in a long and confusing joke.

If it is natural for a man to meet a local woman online and send her money then GO FOR IT.

If he normally meets women in bars/pubs/clubs and he hands over money then he's doing the natural thing.

If he met a former love interest in the supermarket or at the library and said, "Here's $100 - want to hang out for a few days and see if we're compatible?" then he's being true to himself.

I just don't think these things happen in real life and men thnk sending money "MIGHT" be a positive step in courting.

Personally,  I can't think of any benefits from sending money to someone you've never met - whether she is a scammer or not.


Of course,  I've only done this (sought a FSUW for a serious relationship) once so I might be completely deluded...  but I can't get my head around the reason why a man would send money (any amount) or a gift (except some token gift) to someone he's not yet met.

Kuna,

Don't talk about Protestants unless you know even a little bit about them.  As it is you know didly squat so you should just return your head into the sand.

Go get a history book and study the reformation and exactly why it happened and then come back and apologize for your ignorance of it.

[Daveman]

before this thread takes off on another tangent, let's get it back on track and remember that RWD is not the venue for religious discussions except when directly related to the topic of FSUW.


Dave

[chivo]

The commandment is there for a reason.  Many have broken one or more of the commandments and have been successful doing so.  Use your own common sense and good judgement.. and if you choose to break a commandment (and they sometimes will regardless), such as sending money, do so as any other gift - no strings attached and without expectation of a return on your investment - and if things don't work out as planned - don't come back crying and moaning about it or accuse her of being a scammer because you sent money and ultimately didn't get the girl.  Send anything at your own risk and take the responsibility.


Is it wise to send money to a woman you've never met?  Duh... why in the world men in their 30's plus need to be told the answer to that question, or that it is in need of some kind of debate is beyond comprehension...

Of course.
 
People get a grip!
 
What ever happened to common sense?
 
Rules of thumb, 10 commandments, whatever you want to call it, abound for general purposes and a reason. They're solid in their foundations but, of course there will times times that exceptions exist. 
 
That is when personal situations come into play.
 
Myheart2ukraine, I live in Russia. I know what the young people think here and for you to say that this "general rule" of sending money (gifts) is outdated is not my experience. Any girl or women worth her salt to marry will not accept money from a stranger they've met online or through an agency (IOW being bought). And they won't accept money even after you've met, that is until a real relationship has started to form. No, it doesn't mean they will pay if you ask them on a date, that is still the man's responsibility to ante up, although today's young RW has paid to take me out with the idea of taking the relationship to another level (how's that for changing times).
 
I've dated many young RW in their early 20's and 30's and the ones where money was the main driving force of the relationship, simply didn't last long. Not that I didn't have a good time with them. I just knew this part of their character wasn't what I wanted in a mate for marriage. I have no problem dating women where money is a big factor, but I live here and these men don't. I can see it for what it is, not worry about extenuating circumstances because another RW is right around the corner. My airline ticket, flat and time are already paid for if you get my drift. Hopefully you can understand the difference.
 
The best quality women are just too proud and will not do it regardless of their poverty level. Again as with any rule, exceptions exist.
 
Afterward though, they'll have no problem spending all your money for the good of the family of course.

[Gylden]

Just in case there is any doubt I would like to state the following. Of course it is only my opinion!
First, in regards to the RWD ten commandments. I don't think anyone is under the impression that these are amendments to the original ten commandments. I do believe it is a bit of tongue and cheek and serves as some very sound guide lines for staying on a path of common sense.
Second, there are no rules in existence that can replace good common sense.
Third, good judgement along with good common sense is the ultimate tool. (a bit of good luck always comes in handy too ).
If you are looking for total assurance of never being compromised, better to stay at home with the curtains drawn and never venture out. In finding a good "better half" there are always risks involved no matter what or where. Risks increase as one adds different dimensions to the task (ie searching online....searching online in a foreign country...etc).
In my case (and this is not a recommendation to anyone, just an example). I met my wife online, but not on any agency or dating site. After a couple of months of chatting/talking on the telephone/snail mail, I wanted to meet her asap. After consideration of all logistics, time frames/visas/etc. I decided that we would meet in Warsaw. I made the decision and she agreed to it. Of course I made it my responsibility to pay for her travel. She could have paid for it herself, but as the whole travel was effectually for my convenience, I insisted on paying. I sent here in the neighborhood of $ 1000 to cover her trip, made reservations at the hotel where we would meet. (I have written about this in an earlier thread).
At the time my judgement told me that she was most likely sincere. My common sense and values told me it was right to pay her expenses. As one can never be 100% sure of thing and there always was the possibility that she wouldn't show up (although my judgement was very strong that it was very unlikely) my plan included a back up of visiting a friend (former employee) who is living in Warsaw with his family.
At the time I had prepared myself that there was a remote chance it could all go sour, however remote good common sense had dictated that it must always be considered. No regrets no matter which way it went. If you have good common sense USE IT. If not, the risks are higher! A quick review of the RWD ten commandments can be helpful if you are trying to circumvent you own common sense (learn to listen to your CS!).
 
 

[I/O]

MH2U gives it 2 you live from ukraine, from the city streets/towns/villages of ukraine not from this pom loving aussie in aussie-land with his little dream world. please book me a ticket on the next prison ship leaving london for aussie-land I/O, for this would be the only way you would get me 2 your aussie-land  & you so called dream lifestyle you have

For the record, it's actually Indonesia where the boats are coming from these days and your comments reek of similar thinking, ignorance and desperation. BTW, hows business on "the city streets/towns/villages of ukraine"?