Cursing women

[jt]

I'm new here as a contributor, but have read a lot of posts.  I see it is pretty common for men to get cursed at for something or other.

It seems to me that if one will accept getting cursed at, it is only too easy to find an ultra hot American ***ch in any local bar that is more than willing to marry any guy with finances and decent looks.  I know it would only take a matter of hours to get engaged to a hot chick that outclasses the recent miss America if I were willing to put up with that garbage.

Why do I see guys going half way around the world to get cussed at?  Bad women are everywhere, but isn't it the point to look for the good ones?

(BTW, I'm off to Russia, Belarus in September, but I'll not accept bar tramp cursing.)
JT

[ML]

Don't know what you are specifically referring to; but there is always a double standard with respect to what men and women can say.

The words that women use against men here and elsewhere are accepted, but the man would be crucified if they used the same words against women.

This has a long history and is even reflected in commercials where the men are often portrayed as dufusses.  But there would be a huge uproar from both women and men if women were ever portrayed as dufusses in commercials.

This is because men come to the defense of women, but it doesn't happen vice versa.

Likewise, women on this forum and elsewhere can discuss anything sexual with no problem, but if the man does the same, he is labeled a pervert, etc. and will be hounded forever by many.

Get used to it.

[Faux Pas]

I agree with most of that but, as far as reading here, care to cite any examples?

[Jumper]

jt,
 Any chance you could clarify where you have gotten that impression?
 
 I have seen posts here describing some rude or odd behavior (of both men and women)
but none about RW cursing,
and certainly none that would make someone think it was *pretty common*?
 
 
I have never  dated any RW that would commonly curse at anyone,much less the man they were with.
 
While I know some that can be a bit rough in language,
In general  ,I've noticed more a distinct aversion to using
 foul language than anything else.
(perhaps occasionally in  joke or for humor)
 
I've had  some long relationships.. with various ups and downs/disagreements,no one has ever actually cursed.
 
 
It brings up an interesting point though..
How would most men know?
Most have very little grasp of russian.
 
Like any large city , or region, you'll have different people from different parts of society.
One of the dangers men face wading into this,
 is the language barrier where he might not easily see a rough style  of speaking or rough edge to someone they might not date at home, (and vice versa for the women)
(this would not mean simply cursing, more in line with slang usages , dialect, and overall  topics discussed etc if they are communicating through broken english or an interpreter.
as example:
I knew a married  couple here. The man was a VP of a large international firm. He said he met "sveta" as she was a interpreter for another firm he was doing business with in Kiev. Even with my limited Russian, I could tell his wife's speaking style, was very rough crude and with slang you'd likely only hear from someone from a very rough or back sticks region.
Her english was marginal at best.
This is not a knock at her, just pointing out that her limited english made it clear she was never an interpreter in Kyiv,and that it masked to him at least initially her rough
vulgar, way of speaking, and type of thoughts.
 
Not everyone has to *match*,love can
 cross many boundries!
Yet this is a woman ,that if similarly spoken in the US ,he would have never thought to date.ever.Men in his position simply do not.They did divorce after about a year of marriage.It always made me wonder how many times this is a factor in these fast track  relationships (on the womans side too)
 
I would think not too often, as even a short time should reflect compatibility on such issues, yet I was left with this glowing example of a professional very succeful and refined
 man that did  NOT see that? They could not have been more polar opposites ,and it wasnt an opposites attract  scenario.
 
Anyway, I would say she was quite the exception in her speaking style, and certanly not the norm!
 

[The Natural]

I'm not sure what the OP really means here; women cursing (bad language) or talking to/about their man in a bad manner. I don't know how usual or rare it is for women in general in FSU to use bad language. But thinking back, I cannot remember a single instance where my Russian ex-wife used foul language, first in english, then in norwegian which she became fluent in.
 
I do however remember her saying that her uncle once asked her what I used to say when using bad words. What came to her mind to tell him then, was loosely translated: "Black balls of ass". Needless to say, I'm not too keen on curse words myself 

[Turboguy]

I am not sure what he means either but my wife is always a total lady, even on the rare occassions when she does get upset with something I have done she does not curse and I can't say in my numerous trips I have heard women from the FSU cursing at all.  I have seen some AW who had a hard time completing a sentance without adding a bad word or two for emphasis.  To me it sounds terrible and is unneccessary.

[ML]

I am not sure what he means either but my wife is always a total lady, even on the rare occassions when she does get upset with something I have done she does not curse and I can't say in my numerous trips I have heard women from the FSU cursing at all.  I have seen some AW who had a hard time completing a sentance without adding a bad word or two for emphasis.  To me it sounds terrible and is unneccessary.

There are people (mostly men, but women too) in most countries of the world who actually cannot complete most sentences without using the F word (or some variation thereof).

[Rubicon]

 Jt said:
but I'll not accept bar tramp cursing.)


Than don't keep going to bars full of tramps.  Expand your horizons and go to a classier place.   

[jt]

In a recent trip report, brad5969 reports being sworn at (not that he seemed to mind).  Other examples of cursing and bad behavior I've read in trip reports in the past, on this site or others. (Enough examples that it sticks in my mind.)

The reason for my question is to get a feeling of what sort of culture I'm going to be visiting in a couple months  (Belarus, Russia).  Yes, I understand there are always the few rotten apples, but what is the culture like overall?  I've been to several countries, all have good, but not all are good enough to like.  Certainly the morals of women (and men) vary from country to country.

Input will be appreciated.

[Ade]

In a recent trip report, brad5969 reports being sworn at (not that he seemed to mind).  Other examples of cursing and bad behavior I've read in trip reports in the past, on this site or others. (Enough examples that it sticks in my mind.)

The reason for my question is to get a feeling of what sort of culture I'm going to be visiting in a couple months  (Belarus, Russia).  Yes, I understand there are always the few rotten apples, but what is the culture like overall?  I've been to several countries, all have good, but not all are good enough to like.  Certainly the morals of women (and men) vary from country to country.

Input will be appreciated.

Over the past several decades, generally, people in the FSU have not had an easy time of it compared to life in Western Europe and North America. This has had a tendency to encourage a certain "survivor" mentality in a lot of people. Cursing should be the absolute least of your worries although if it bothers you, I don't think you have to worry much as I've heard next to none - it took me long enough to get my wife to say "bugger".

If you've fallen for the agency hype about how angelic the women are, well, good luck with that.

[chivo]

If a women is mad at you, you will certainly hear about . This doesn't mean that she will use profanity, especially English profanity.
 
Remember that many Russians/FSUW learn these words by watching American movies which are loaded with profanity. So much so that many people in the FSU think that they have less value (sting) than a native, again especially if you're on the receiving end. You will find that many people in these parts actually find these words funny and are somewhat naive to their full meaning.
 
This does not however, excuse a woman when she is slinging them at you. As for me, she better have a great reason to throw them my way in such a manner. Do not excuse low or no class.   

[Ranetka]

Remember that many Russians/FSUW learn these words by watching American movies which are loaded with profanity. So much so that many people in the FSU think that they have less value (sting) than a native, again especially if you're on the receiving end. You will find that many people in these parts actually find these words funny and are somewhat naive to their full meaning.

Chivo is absolutely spot on. It took me a while to realise f word is  "REAL" swear  word. Engish swearing still have very little sting for me actually but at least I know not to use them lol.

[ML]

 It took me a while to realise f word is  "REAL" swear  word.

Yes, one gal I spent quite a bit  of time with told me that in her local English class she learned that 'Oh sheeeet' was just something you said when you were mad. She had no idea the actual material referred to, and was a little embarrassed when I delicately explained it to her.

[Aloe]

Chivo is absolutely spot on. It took me a while to realise f word is  "REAL" swear  word. Engish swearing still have very little sting for me actually but at least I know not to use them lol.

I second that. English swear words just seem so really mild and soft compared to russian swearing. I have never ever said a single bad russian word in my life, yet english swearing comes very easy to me Just because i do not perceive it as something very bad. I am not sure why i have that perception, but i did learn most of my english from the movies, maybe that's why On the bright side, if somebody calls me a C-word or something else, i don't really care. Not because i'm such a low class person, but because it feels like a very mild word to me.
So when hubby said that he does not appreciate my swearing in english, i just stopped using those words, that's all.. It's very mild words to me, i don't see why he's sensitive to them, but i don't care if i use them or not, and if he cares about it, then i simply won't use them. So if someone says something "bad" to you when they are mad, maybe they don't know it sounds so bad to you, and if you tell them it's bad, then they simply won't use such words anymore?

[Kuna]

I second that. English swear words just seem so really mild and soft compared to russian swearing. I have never ever said a single bad russian word in my life, yet english swearing comes very easy to me Just because i do not perceive it as something very bad. I am not sure why i have that perception, but i did learn most of my english from the movies, maybe that's why On the bright side, if somebody calls me a C-word or something else, i don't really care. Not because i'm such a low class person, but because it feels like a very mild word to me.
So when hubby said that he does not appreciate my swearing in english, i just stopped using those words, that's all.. It's very mild words to me, i don't see why he's sensitive to them, but i don't care if i use them or not, and if he cares about it, then i simply won't use them. So if someone says something "bad" to you when they are mad, maybe they don't know it sounds so bad to you, and if you tell them it's bad, then they simply won't use such words anymore?

I've asked my wife about Russian swear words and she always replies, "There are no swear words in Russian" and then continues on with whatever she was doing.

I KNOW there are but as she won't even say "Damn" in English I think it's unlikely she'll teach me any swear words in Russian!   

[SANDRO43]

I KNOW there are but as she won't even say "Damn" in English I think it's unlikely she'll teach me any swear words in Russian!

No need, you can learn them online :

- http://www.waytorussia.net/WhatIsRussia/Russian/SwearWords.html
- http://www.youswear.com/index.asp?language=Russian

etc., and for pronounciation:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CXuOLfvSN4[/youtube]

[Ade]

I've asked my wife about Russian swear words and she always replies, "There are no swear words in Russian" and then continues on with whatever she was doing.

I KNOW there are but as she won't even say "Damn" in English I think it's unlikely she'll teach me any swear words in Russian!   

So your wife lies to you then.

[Gator]

My experience is that RW are more ladylike than AW, and that includes avoiding profanity.  Some AW use profanity in sex and a few like to talk dirty.  I found only one RW this way (caveat – my experience is not statistically significant).  Most RW are like Kuna’s wife, as if the words do not exist.  And if you happen to be around some drunk RM, you will observe how much RW abhor hearing profanity.

As noted above, some RW repeat the F-word they hear in American films, not knowing its impact, the same we would not comprehend the impact of strong Russian profanity.  As an example, the one RW who introduced me to a few choice sexual words cautioned me not to use them with other RW.  I thought a couple of the words sounded cute, and one day one just came out when with another RW.  The reaction was severe.   

It seems that Russian profanity is more offensive than English profanity.  This is more than just harsh sounds; it is how some RM  construct literate and expressive phrases, e. g., “I  schit in the soup of your mother and your brother eats it.”

[Jumper]

Most RW are like Kuna’s wife, as if the words do not exist............

 

, you will observe how much RW abhor hearing profanity.

That would be my experience,
that they *generally* seem distinctly  troubled at hearing any..

and more often than not generally would pretend the words don't exist, or unworthy of being acknowledged as existing
 

[Ade]

 
 
That would be my experience,
that they *generally* seem distinctly  troubled at hearing any..

and more often than not generally would pretend the words don't exist, or unworthy of being acknowledged as existing

My wife says that is just weird or BS. My wife really doesn't like swearing and has some serious issues with my rare (okay, not so rare) slip. But she'd never lie and say that Russian doesn't have swear words.

One thing I've noticed over the past 6 months, beside my wife and a few other odd exceptions here, most FSUW we know or know of seem to have a flexible view of the truth and of morality. Put it down to a cultural thing if you want.

[Jumper]

Ade ,
 I believe you are extrapulating pretty far, as to what i stated or infered..(you quoted me, not Kuna)
 
My experience is that RW do not lie to you about curse words absolutely not existing in their language,
of course such words exist.
 
I never stated that  RW told me that the words did not exist.
 
I did state none have ever sworn at me, or around me.
 
 
An *attitude* of viewing such words beneath recognition ,or pretending they did not hear them ,or not acknowledging they heard  one when uttered..
or a relunctence by RW to repeat, or expand on this topic,,
 
is different than some absolute  insistence the words  don't exist.
 
 
To weave that into a scenerio where RW are *untruthful*,
 is where you seem to be headed. That just seems rather odd.
 
 
Flexible truths? you really want to go down that road?
What a slippery slope to tread   
shades of grey? or is it always purely black and white?
 
The fabric that binds many a polite society is "little white lies" or none full disclosure (the same as an untruth?) .
Most people  are as guilty as anyone  of those, in given circumstance.
 
I would take Kuna's wives responce in that vein, not one of being *dishonest*.
 
 
 

[Boethius]

Jumper, my husband is more in line with Ade's wife's statements than yours.  I always found FSU countries to be far ruder than here, and the vulgarity I encountered sometimes shocked me.  But, in my neck of the woods, even the cities are still in many respects, "small towns" in terms of friendliness.

Nobody in my husband's family swears, and he does not swear, in English, Russian, or Ukrainian.  But it was, and on our visit last summer is, still extremely common. 

My husband always, to a degree, resented the vulgarness and coarseness of his society and that was reinforced with his visit last year. 

Remember, the "carriers of the culture" were all killed and replaced by the proletariat.  The carrier of the "new culture" was a semi literate, semi drunk worker.  Writers such as Zoshchenko and Bulgakov mocked this in their works.

My husband was recently speaking with a woman from L'viv.  She said to him "I understand what you're saying, but I have never heard anything like this."  She meant she'd never heard anyone speak so politely.   

[Ade]

Ade ,
 I believe you are extrapulating pretty far, as to what i stated or infered..(you quoted me, not Kuna)
 

Call it what you want but I've had my eyes opened a lot over the past 6 months. As a result, I think I'm even luckier now than I thought I was a year ago, and that is saying something as I thought I was a very lucky guy to start with. I think that most WM haven't the foggiest idea; and I was one of the ignorant ones until recently.

Good luck guys. You're going to need plenty of it. 

[Jumper]

Call it what you want but I've had my eyes opened a lot over the past 6 months. As a result, I think I'm even luckier now than I thought I was a year ago, and that is saying something as I thought I was a very lucky guy to start with. I think that most WM haven't the foggiest idea; and I was one of the ignorant ones until recently.

Good luck guys. You're going to need plenty of it. 

 
Actually, I don't doubt this..
 
and in my first post refered to the various segments within any culture, (and the difficulty for a man not living in one,  to recognize them initially)
I think guys often have no idea with the general culture,much less segments with in it.
 
I agree with your above post..
 
 
 
it's just that i just dont view an *attitude* of a woman ignoring something she disapproves of in this fashion ,
as in your earlier reference to Kunas post,
 as some kind of out right * lie*, or a dishonest person.
 
subtle difference perhaps.
 
 
 
Boe

My husband always, to a degree, resented the vulgarness and coarseness of his society and that was reinforced with his visit last year

Interesting.
 
Oddly this coincides with my experience though?
 Most RW i've dated  would feel the same as your Ukrainian husband.
So we had the same experience in regards to people  we were romantically involved with.
 
 Granted I have met some friends or friends of friends, that were a bit crude.
One RW stayed over night with us once, and was perhaps the rudest person i have eveer met.(which i base nothing of that on her nationality)
I asked her to leave in the morning, my (RW)wife at the time completely agreed.. it was that  simple.
 
However,  seemed the exception, not the norm ,as the earlier example I mentioned.
 
Perhaps I was  just lucky?
 
 
While i havn't lived in Ukraine proper, i did live long term in Czech.There were clear differences in level of vulgarity between men and women as a general rule.
You would have had to really find a low class woman that would speak in a similar way to an average man there.
So gender did play a role.
(For what it's worth ,this area most people knew Russian, but they would be relunctant to speak it. You hear Czech, some English and German.)
 
 
As far as overall *rudeness* of any culture, I think that delves into issues far more than just *rough* language?
 
 My grandfather/ great grandfather  were rough farm hillbillies,yet beyond a rough  ,course way of speaking,
and a perhaps non-educated exterior,
they couldn't have been  more hospitable or friendly.
(neither actually cursed, or had a very limited one word vocabulary of it , generally reserved for when one smashes a thumb with a hammer! )
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Boethius]

Go to Korrespondent, and read the comments to see how "nobody swears".  This is, unfortunately, very common.  I'm not saying it is uncommon here, I need only stand outside a high school for a bit, it is just more common, or "normalized" than here.  Perhaps, in another 10 years, that won't be the case.