Cursing women

[Misha]

I have known many Ukrainians who had the opportunity to emigrate....

Still do not see the relevance. Yes, people have an emotional attachment to their homes and homelands in Ukraine, but that is pretty much true everywhere.

No, potatoes are pretty cheap in Ukraine.  They are still tied to those villages, and do what they have always done.  Granted, they can sell their produce and earn some extra cash.

So you essentially make my point: there is an economic imperative. Nonetheless, many Canadians happily garden even when they don't have to.

I am talking about Ukraine, not Russia.  That oral tradition is still alive and well in my Grandmother's village.

I believe that women in the 70s and 80s do have a rich oral tradition. I have my doubts as to richness of the oral tradition that remains in the younger generations. They too, I am certain, prefer to watch television than recount the family lore...

Sigh.  You missed the point.  It is not about "sentimentalism".  It is about a continuity of a lifestyle, how things don't change.  And please don't tell me about how rural Alberta has not changed.  It has.

I agree, but so has Ukraine and Ukrainian villages. But, I understand the need for the nostalgia and the belief in the pristine unchanging villages...

[Boethius]

I never said the villages were "pristine" or unchanging.  I said there was a continuity and a different attitude toward life. 

I note you again dodged my direct questions.

[Misha]

I never said the villages were "pristine" or unchanging.  I said there was a continuity and a different attitude toward life.

The same is true for Canada and pretty much everywhere else in the world. What you are trying to do is to create this idealized 1,000-year tradition that spans generations. It is the usual fodder of nationalism, but I don't see the need to believe it as the verbatim truth... 

I note you again dodged my direct questions.

Your direct questions: Do you really think most Canadians would have a similar reaction?

The answer, yes, some would. If you have one person going off, making a lot of money, potentially creating a great deal of envy, then yes they will likely be the butt of jokes if they lose their new wealth.

Then, the question of the elderly and the young as to whether they would move. Again, I do not see the relevance. In Ukraine, in Russia, in Canada and pretty much everywhere, you will have people who will gladly emigrate and those who never will. There is nothing particularly surprising there...

Any other "direct questions" that I missed LOL

[Rubicon]

Boethius said:

You will hear lots of Ukrainians say they would not leave the home of their ancestors, who fought and died with their blood for this particular land.  It is a very common attitude there.  It isn't in North America.

Wrong answer Boethius.  Many of us North Americans have roots here which go back 300 years or more years.  If Nazi Germany had tried to invade the USA back in 1941 they would have gotten a far different welcome than they got in Ukraine.  The fact is that whether you like it or not the Russians and Ukrainians were completely unprepared for WWII and most ran.  That would not be the case in the USA.  Gun ownership is a proud part of our country and nobody would have been running away and burning crops and villages in the process like the Russians and Ukrainians did.

I am going to have to agree with Misha; you are simply romanticizing Ukraine.  Most young people from Ukraine if given the chance to leave to the West would be gone in a heartbeat.  The economic opportunities in the west are so much better, what makes you think they would stay in Ukraine??  The price of food and gas is going up in Ukraine.  Wages are stagnant and unemployment is very high.  Why would the MOB business thrive in Ukraine if their economy was doing better??  It would not.  No self respecting 19, 20, 21 year old girl would post suggestive photos of herself all over the internet in a bikini and offer to marry a man 50 to 60 years older than herself.  The Ukrainian government may have to raise the age for the meager retirement benefits which they offer.  Ukraine needs more money from the IMF to stay afloat.  Extreme corruption of government officials and police officers is rampant.  So much for continuity.

[Rubicon]

Yes, Misha.  I literally meant each individual has lived there for 600 years.

There is a continuity and a tie to the place where individuals' ancestors lived.  You will hear lots of Ukrainians say they would not leave the home of their ancestors, who fought and died with their blood for this particular land.  It is a very common attitude there.  It isn't in North America.

As for modernity, despite that "modernity", most Ukrainians are still largely tied to villages.  If you go to Kyiv in mid to late March, you will notice the city is less busy, as so many "Kyiyanins" go home to plant potatoes.

My Grandmother's village has oral traditions of Tatar raids which occurred in the 1400's.  Everyone in her family still lives in the village, but for 3 of the children of my mother's cousins, all of whom live in the nearest city.  Most of them are great grandmothers already.  One of my Grandmother's nieces lived in a neighbouring village, with her husband.  And this, despite the fact they all went to universities in cities, one in Kyiv.




How many Ukrainian villages have you visited, Misha?  You forget, I lived there for quite some time.  My husband, who spent more than a decade working or travelling in villages, has the same view.  Is his perspective "romanticized" as well?  It was not unusual to visit a village and be regaled with the story of how Hannia's chicken mysteriously disappeared in 1978.  It is a reality, not a romantic notion, that attitudes toward moving, especially away from the graves of your parents, are very different.  My MIL would never emigrate, because she could not imagine leaving the land her family has survived in for centuries, and she could never imagine never seeing the graves of her parents again.  A lot of Ukrainians feel the same way.

This may change now that borders are open and people can move far more freely, but this is still the reality of Ukraine at this particular point in time.  It is not "romantic".  It is reality.



Shortly after the Soviet collapse, a girl from the apartment block went to work in Germany.  She came back with a significant amount of cash, earned working there illegally.  There were no banks then so really, her options in terms of transporting that cash were quite limited.  She was robbed within a day, by someone laying in wait.  Most of her neighbours thought that it was hilarious.  Do you really think most Canadians would have a similar reaction?

Your story about a girl going to Germany and then getting robbed upon returning to Ukraine shows how values are so completely different between Americans and Ukrainian/Russians.  No neighbors would be laughing about it.  They would be banding together to help her out and the males would be trying to find out who robbed her; and would be planning on getting the money back for her once they found out.  Americans do as a majority have true christian values.  We don't laugh at neighbors who get robbed or mistreated. 

[Kuna]

Not backing any dog in the argument between Boethius and Misha BUT... 

Boethius - are you referring to ethnic Ukrainians, those with family history in certain areas dating back 600 years?

What you say may be true of these people...  and I think we've all seen it in the west of Ukraine, but I'm not sure your argument stands if you're including all Ukrainians including those that identify themselves as Russian.

I'm not saying you're wrong in your statements above, but I feel they relate to sections of the Ukrainian population not the whole poulation.

[Rubicon]

      Getty Images

Census reports that Ukraine population will drop by approximately 12 million from now to the year 2050.  Russian population to drop by 30 million!!!!
 While the U.S. appears relatively stable — it's the only country in the top 10 whose ranking is not expected to change in the next 40 years — previous reports have highlighted dramatic demographic shifts within the country's borders. Last week, the Census Bureau announced that more than half of children under age 2 in the U.S. are ethnic minorities. Add to that the non-Hispanic white population's increasing age (in California, for example, the median age for non-Hispanic whites is almost 10 years older than that of the state as a whole) and the U.S. in 2050 will look a lot different than the one we know today. (See TIME's video "10 Questions for Census Director Robert Groves.") Perhaps the most unfortunate change is the one happening in Russia. The cold, vast country has been undergoing steady depopulation since 1992, and the U.S. Census Bureau expects it to decline further, from 139 million people to 109 million by 2050. That's a 21% drop, even more than what the country suffered during World War II. Like many countries, Russia is experiencing declining birth rates, but it's also suffering from a relatively low life expectancy. According to the World Health Organization, Russian men have a life expectancy of just 62 years, a fact that is often attributed to the country's high rate of alcoholism and poor diet. (By comparison, Japan is also struggling with depopulation, but the World Health Organization puts its life expectancy at 80 for men and 86 for women).
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2080404,00.html#ixzz1QvTTyMup

[Boethius]

Out of economic necessity. Given half a chance, most I wager would be more than happy to buy their potatoes in a supermarket.

No again.  My husband worked almost exclusively with escapees (long story).  They didn't need money, and they didn't even eat all they planted.  He said they did it because "It is, to them, instinctual."  He means that in a positive way. 

When we went back last year, he met with many former coworkers.  They were doing well (not so this year), and were all still planting potatoes.

Rubicon, North Americans move around a lot more.  Many, many Ukrainians still make annual pilgrimages to their ancestors' graves.  I don't know of too many North Americans who do that.

Kuna, I am referring primarily to rural populations, which means, predominantly, or almost exclusively, Ukrainians, including escapees.  Ethnic Russians were never part of the rural populations in Ukraine, not even in Tsarist times.

[Rubicon]

No again.  My husband worked almost exclusively with escapees (long story).  They didn't need money, and they didn't even eat all they planted.  He said they did it because "It is, to them, instinctual."  He means that in a positive way. 

When we went back last year, he met with many former coworkers.  They were doing well (not so this year), and were all still planting potatoes.

Rubicon, North Americans move around a lot more.  Many, many Ukrainians still make annual pilgrimages to their ancestors' graves.  I don't know of too many North Americans who do that.

Kuna, I am referring to ethnic Ukrainians, which means, predominantly, rural populations, including those who have moved into cities.  Ethnic Russians were never part of the rural populations in Ukraine, not even in Tsarist times.

I go to my Grandmothers and Grandfathers grave sites once a year or more.  Most of my Aunts Uncles and cousins do as well.  I think you are comparing Americans born in large cities who are probably 25 years old and younger to Americans who were born in rural areas and are older than that.  People from the country side are often closer to neighbors and closer to passed relatives.

[Boethius]

 

The fact is that whether you like it or not the Russians and Ukrainians were completely unprepared for WWII and most ran.  That would not be the case in the USA.  Gun ownership is a proud part of our country and nobody would have been running away and burning crops and villages in the process like the Russians and Ukrainians did.

Actually no, they didn't run.  Initially, in Western Ukraine, they welcomed the Germans with bread and salt.  Not surprising, given what the commies were doing.  10,000 corpses were discovered in the cellar of NKVD headquarters in L'viv, most evidencing signs of torture.  In the 1990's, another 7,000 were dug up.  That is in one city alone.

I am going to have to agree with Misha; you are simply romanticizing Ukraine.  Most young people from Ukraine if given the chance to leave to the West would be gone in a heartbeat.

I would hazard a guess I speak to a heck of a lot more young Ukrainians than you do.  Many study here, as my province has a huge Ukrainian population, and its universities (University of Alberta, Grant MacEwan University, the University of Calgary, and the Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies (U of A)) very early, with money from the Soros Foundation, re-established the Mohyla Academy, set up scholarships in business, nursing, medicine, Ukrainian language, history, linguistics, folklore, music, and law to train young Ukrainians.  Many come here to obtain degrees, or partial degrees, and return.  They also do practicums here, working in banks, in hospitals, and in law firms.  A friend of mine was instrumental in working on establishing a legal system in Ukraine, something that worked at a snail's pace and not without setbacks, though during the Kuchma years, there were many successes and a truly independent judiciary.

So, bottom line, I meet a lot of Ukrainians.  Sure, there are Ukrainians who wish to stay, but the majority want to return.  Some even say life here is too predictable and "unexciting".   You will also hear from those who have been here that they are treated like second class citizens in North America and Western Europe (with the exceptions of Spain, Portugal, and Ireland).  I think some of that is perception, not reality, but in the end, reality is perception, isn't it?

The economic opportunities in the west are so much better, what makes you think they would stay in Ukraine??  The price of food and gas is going up in Ukraine.  Wages are stagnant and unemployment is very high.  Why would the MOB business thrive in Ukraine if their economy was doing better??  It would not.  No self respecting 19, 20, 21 year old girl would post suggestive photos of herself all over the internet in a bikini and offer to marry a man 50 to 60 years older than herself.  The Ukrainian government may have to raise the age for the meager retirement benefits which they offer.  Ukraine needs more money from the IMF to stay afloat.  Extreme corruption of government officials and police officers is rampant.  So much for continuity.

Ukrainians always say they wish to emigrate, but they also say they do not wish to live in the West.  They view it as "soulless".  When push comes to shove, the Ukrainians I know almost all want to return.

Food is very cheap in Ukraine.  My MIL can survive on a pension of $100 a month, and she says she eats well.  We used to send money after the collapse, but now, she asked us not to send any money, she doesn't need it, and has more than enough money to live well.  My relatives in Western Ukraine eat very well, but they grow most of their food.

A girl who wants to work and rely on herself will not be posting bikini photos or marrying a man 40 years her senior.  A woman in her early thirties will look for a man abroad because, by Ukrainian standards, she is "old", and her options are limited, plus men in that age group often start to drink.

It is not a romanticism, Rubicon.   If you read a lot of my posts, you will note I am not particularly romantic about Ukraine.  It is not a country I would wish my children to grow up in.  My descriptions are based on the reality of being exposed to a lot of different types of people in Ukraine over a relatively long period.  Plus, I speak the language fluently.

[Boethius]

I have rural relatives, from their forties to their eighties.  None visit the graves of their parents.

In Ukraine, there are visitations at Easter, with a priest in the graveyard to give a blessing (same thing among diaspora Ukrainians), but also, Ukrainians visit graveyards "en masse" on birthdays and the anniversary of the date of death.  All children/grandchildren attend.  My husband's family, dating back to the 17th century, are all buried in a family plot.

[Rubicon]

Actually no, they didn't run.  Initially, in Western Ukraine, they welcomed the Germans with bread and salt.  Not surprising, given what the commies were doing.  10,000 corpses were discovered in the cellar of NKVD headquarters in L'viv, most evidencing signs of torture.  In the 1990's, another 7,000 were dug up.  That is in one city alone.
 


I would hazard a guess I speak to a heck of a lot more young Ukrainians than you do.  Many study here, as my province has a huge Ukrainian population, and its universities (University of Alberta, Grant MacEwan University, the University of Calgary, and the Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies (U of A)) very early, with money from the Soros Foundation, re-established the Mohyla Academy, set up scholarships in business, nursing, medicine, Ukrainian language, history, linguistics, folklore, music, and law to train young Ukrainians.  Many come here to obtain degrees, or partial degrees, and return.  They also do practicums here, working in banks, in hospitals, and in law firms.  A friend of mine was instrumental in working on establishing a legal system in Ukraine, something that worked at a snail's pace and not without setbacks, though during the Kuchma years, there were many successes and a truly independent judiciary.

So, bottom line, I meet a lot of Ukrainians.  Sure, there are Ukrainians who wish to stay, but the majority want to return.  Some even say life here is too predictable and "unexciting". 


Ukrainians always say they wish to emigrate, but they also say they do not wish to live in the West.  They view it as "soulless".  When push comes to shove, the Ukrainians I know almost all want to return.

Food is very cheap in Ukraine.  My MIL can survive on a pension of $100 a month, and she says she eats well.  We used to send money after the collapse, but now, she asked us not to send any money, she doesn't need it, and has more than enough money to live well.  My relatives in Western Ukraine eat very well, but they grow most of their food.

A girl who wants to work and rely on herself will not be posting bikini photos or marrying a man 40 years her senior.  A woman in her early thirties will look for a man abroad because, by Ukrainian standards, she is "old", and her options are limited, plus men in that age group often start to drink.

It is not a romanticism, Rubicon.  It is the reality of being exposed to a lot of different types of people over a relatively long period.  Plus, I speak the language fluently.

Don't forget about Vinnitsa Ukraines victims of the NKVD killings during Stalin's purge of 1937 to 1938.  And I am sure you know that many Ukrainians fought along side with the Germans because they hated the Russian communists so much.  In fact there was an elite unit of men from Ukraine.  What Ukrainians really wanted was liberation.  They did not ultimately want to be ruled by Germans or Russians.

RE Vinnitsa:

The authorities estimated that in addition to the 9439 bodies exhumed, there were another 3,000 still in unopened mass graves in the same area. The international team concluded that all of the victims had been killed about five years earlier — that is, in 1938. Relatives of the victims who were identified all testified that the victims had been arrested by the NKVD in 1937 and 1938. The relatives had been told that those arrested were "enemies of the people" and would be sent to Siberia for 10 years. None of the relatives had any idea what the reason was for the arrests and testified that those arrested had committed no crimes and were engaged in no political activity. As I said earlier, nearly all of the victims were farmers or workers, although there were a few priests and civil servants among them.

They were all murdered in the trademark NKVD style:  shot in the back of the neck with a 22 caliber pistol. 

[Rubicon]

As I am sure you also know the Katyn murders of about 20,000 Polish military personnel were blamed on the Germans for many many years.  Only recently did evidence surface that it was in fact Stalin who ordered these atrocious murders.  Forgive me if I do not consequently believe the figures of 6 million murdered Jewish people obtained by a Soviet judge at Nuremburg.  No doubt in my mind there were deliberate murders of Jewish people by Nazi's; I just believe that Stalin had the figures padded in order to further humiliate Germany at the end of WWII.  The victors get to write history. 

[Anotherkiwi]

...Forgive me if I do not consequently believe the figures of 6 million murdered Jewish people obtained by a Soviet judge at Nuremburg.  No doubt in my mind there were deliberate murders of Jewish people by Nazi's; I just believe that Stalin had the figures padded in order to further humiliate Germany at the end of WWII.  The victors get to write history.

Oh boy! Rubicon, isn't that one of the tenets of modern Judaism?  Stand by for the floodgates to open, with wrath and opprobrium to be heaped upon you!

[Rubicon]

Article about Stalin's Mass Murders of 1937 to 1938, evidence which was discovered in 1992:

The NKVD Mass Secret Operation n° 00447 (August 1937 – November ...www.massviolence.org/The-NKVD-Mass-Secret-Operation-no-0044... - CachedMay 20, 2010 – In 1992, the discovery in the Soviet archives  of the NKVD's secret operational order n° .... Sandormokh, in Karelia, Vinnitsa, in Ukraine, etc). ... Many of  the victims appear to have been on index-cards, catalogues of ...

[Rubicon]

Oh boy! Rubicon, isn't that one of the tenets of modern Judaism?  Stand by for the floodgates to open, with wrath and opprobrium to be heaped upon you!

I believe there have been many genocides throughout the course of human history. I see no reason why only one should be shown in museums and put into Movies.  ALL of them should be investigated, discussed and abhorred by surviving humans beings.

[Boethius]

Don't forget about Vinnitsa Ukraines victims of the NKVD killings during Stalin's purge of 1937 to 1938.  And I am sure you know that many Ukrainians fought along side with the Germans because they hated the Russian communists so much.  In fact there was an elite unit of men from Ukraine.  What Ukrainians really wanted was liberation.  They did not ultimately want to be ruled by Germans or Russians.

Ukrainian collaboration with the Germans was no higher than it was in any Western European country, despite popular belief/mythology to the contrary.  That has been documented.

UPA did accept money and weapons from the Germans, but they viewed the communists and the Nazis as their enemies.  However, they did commit war crimes, and some of their ideology was similar to fascism (with an emphasis on ethnic origin).   You will rarely hear Ukrainians admit this.

The Galician SS Division (SS meaning foreign, not a "Nazi" division) was comprised of Ukrainians from Galicia, mostly young, and all wishing to free Western Ukraine from communism.  Most of them emigrated after WWII, many to Canada, and I knew many soldiers who fought in those units.  Not all were volunteers.  I knew one man who was taken to Germany, forcibly, at 14, and put in a Galician unit.

In Eastern Ukraine, the Red Army did not want to fight for Stalin.  I know this from first hand accounts.  However, when the Germans starved POW's, and proved to be just as bad as Stalin, and, once churches were reopened and a campaign was launched to save their homeland (not communism), people did begin to resist the Germans.

A very good book as a starting point is Ukraine During WWII, printed by the CIUS.  Prof. John Paul Himka has also done a fair amount of research on UPA and has edited many papers.  A lot of research is being done now in Ukraine, much of it in Ukrainian, as archives are now available.


I don't think the revelations on Katyn are all that recent.  I know for a fact that the Soviets were blamed for them in the early 1980's, and I believe even earlier, though my memory is fuzzy on the dates.

My Godfather lived in a village in Western Ukraine during WWII.  He was in his late thirties.  He said the very first thing the Germans did when they entered his village was ask where the party leader lived.  The second thing they did was round up all the village Jews.  Not so difficult to do in many parts of Ukraine, as they often dressed differently, and did not speak Ukrainian (only Polish/Yiddish).  The very first night, the Jews were taken to a forest and shot.  He didn't know it was happening.  He heard shots, and his 12 year old son snuck out to see what was happening. 

My Godfather was taken forcibly as an Ostarbeiter.  He knew his fate was death if he returned, and he did not know the fate of his family, so, he emigrated to Canada, where he had a sister (who died a week before his arrival).  When he was dying, he was in delirium, and returned to that time, thinking the lights in the hospital, covered with wire, were bombs, and he was begging me to hide him because the Germans were coming to take him away (he had, in fact, hid, but his five year old son, not knowing the difference, told the Germans where he was).  He had not spoken much about his feelings, only events, and he had never expressed the terror I witnessed him relive on his death bed.

About 600,000 Ukrainian Jews were killed by the Germans in Central Ukraine during WWII, 2 million in Western Ukraine.  One in four Belarussians was killed during WWII, and a large number of those were Jews as well.

[Boethius]

Article about Stalin's Mass Murders of 1937 to 1938, evidence which was discovered in 1992:

The NKVD Mass Secret Operation n° 00447 (August 1937 – November ...www.massviolence.org/The-NKVD-Mass-Secret-Operation-no-0044... - CachedMay 20, 2010 – In 1992, the discovery in the Soviet archives  of the NKVD's secret operational order n° .... Sandormokh, in Karelia, Vinnitsa, in Ukraine, etc). ... Many of  the victims appear to have been on index-cards, catalogues of ...

Yes, but it was nothing new to Ukrainian emigre communities, and you can find works from the Harvard Press and the CIUS on these issues before 1992.  Much of the best research was done in the early 1980's.  Most of that evidence is based on oral testimonies and extrapolations of, say, official census records. 

After the collapse, what you are beginning to find is official documentation that supports what Western historians have written and known all along.

[Rubicon]

Yes, but it was nothing new to Ukrainian emigre communities, and you can find works from the Harvard Press and the CIUS on these issues before 1992.  Much of the best research was done in the early 1980's.  Most of that evidence is based on oral testimonies and extrapolations of, say, official census records. 

After the collapse, what you are beginning to find is official documentation that supports what Western historians have written and known all along.

Why do you think it is that President Medvedev of Russian Federation issued a new law about one or two years ago banning any revisionist history of WWII punishable by a prison sentence??  It seems to me that the Russians still have something to hide.

[Rubicon]

Oh boy! Rubicon, isn't that one of the tenets of modern Judaism?  Stand by for the floodgates to open, with wrath and opprobrium to be heaped upon you!

Poor Rubicon will be muted once again by the morning, or permanently banned.  Goodbye cruel world!!  To those who have been nice to me, it's been a pleasure.  Good luck to those who deserve it.

[Boethius]

I was referring to Ukraine.

I would have to see the law, but I do know that almost all the archives were open to scholars, including Western scholars, until the late 1990's.  I know they are still available, but access in Russia is now much more difficult.

[Boethius]

Rubicon, why do you think you'll be banned?  What you stated was not inaccurate. 

Six million Soviet Jews were not killed by the Nazis.  But six million Jews did die during WWII, which was 2/3 of all European Jews.

[OlgaH]

Why do you think it is that President Medvedev of Russian Federation issued a new law about one or two years ago banning any revisionist history of WWII punishable by a prison sentence?? 

To be more correct

he signed a decree on setting the Presidential Commission of the Russian Federation to Counter Attempts to Falsify History to the Detriment of Russia's Interests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Commission_of_the_Russian_Federation_to_Counter_Attempts_to_Falsify_History_to_the_Detriment_of_Russia%27s_Interests

and the Federal law "On Counteracting the Rehabilitation of Nazism, Nazi Criminals and Their Accomplices in New Independent States on the Territory of the Former USSR"

The Rehabilitation of Nazism is punishable by prison sentence

[Ranetka]

  If Nazi Germany had tried to invade the USA back in 1941 they would have gotten a far different welcome than they got in Ukraine.  The fact is that whether you like it or not the Russians and Ukrainians were completely unprepared for WWII and most ran.  That would not be the case in the USA.  Gun ownership is a proud part of our country and nobody would have been running away and burning crops and villages in the process like the Russians and Ukrainians did.

There is no point talking to some people. At all. Why don't you say something like this at your in law's dinner table?
 
Would....The history does not operate in would. When I first posted I hoped you'd get puched in the face in the memory of 20 mlns dead in the War.  I just put you on ignore.
 

[OlgaH]

Shortly after the Soviet collapse, a girl from the apartment block went to work in Germany.  She came back with a significant amount of cash, earned working there illegally.  There were no banks then so really, her options in terms of transporting that cash were quite limited.  She was robbed within a day, by someone laying in wait.  Most of her neighbours thought that it was hilarious.  Do you really think most Canadians would have a similar reaction?

Well, jealousy and envy are quite universal. Under the right conditions, yes an unhappy event could generate humour if it an outlet for the underlying envy that the other's "success" created....

I don't know the story of the girl so it it is really difficult to say why people found it to be hilarious. But it is not necessary  jealousy and envy. Yes the fact can be very sad but the situation or how it happened can be in some way comic - "laughing through the tears". I remember how one of our neighbors was telling us how she decided to commit suicide being exhausted by her disease. Yes it was a sad story but the way she described everything happened to her with the rope, hook and she got a bump on her head was really funny. While we all were laughing and she was too it doesn't mean that we did not give her any support.