She is here! My 'trip' report continues

[Turboguy]

Heck, I think we all know women can be strange sometimes.  I think it is the mystery about trying to understand them that keeps us on our toes and  keeps life from being boring.

I have a feeling what Doug is running into is a lot like I ran into with Luda.  Shortly before Luda arrived one of my people ran into a guy with a Russian wife.  He sent along his phone number and said to give him a call and he would introduce her to lot of good Russian people and help her stay away from the bad ones.  I knew too that we would be going to Virginia beach and hoped we might be able to have a short visit with Ken and Clyde on our trip.  Luda would not have any of it.  She said she did not want me picking her friends.   I hope Doug's situation comes out better in the end than mine did with Luda.

 

[andrewfi]

TG ~ We can not legislate for what might happen, we can only do the right things, right!

Fear and uncertainty are not reasons for avoiding our responisbilities. After all, in the end, if she has other motives then they will become evident soon enough, but if he does the wrong things now, then he may turn a good person against him.

[Yakboy]

Well Doug by my math (which is sometimes not so great) you have about....

 

54 Days:shock:

And counting.... Better get on it with every resource you got available!

 

TicTicTicTic..........

[BC]

Boy.. this thread seems like watching a pimple ripen with all waiting for that final 'pop'

In all fairness to PG, my wife was also very hesitant at first about meeting with other WM/RU couples.  When you think about it RW do not want to go into situations that blatantly show their weaknesses...

Meeting and interacting with other locals though was very important and she had very little hesitation doing so.

In any case getting out of the house and mingling is essential, but I wonder how to do that effectively with limited communication..

Steak and Lobster party with the neighbors:

'Would your wife like her lobster boiled, grilled, cracked, baked, peeled?.. Filet wrapped with Canadian bacon rare or medium?.. baked potatoe with chives?.. btw what kind of wines are available in her country?'

'Mind if I use your phone to call our terp?'

[dwfunk]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

[color="navy"][size="3"]To  all of you who have offered friendship and phone calls, I apologize for  Larysa's unwillingness to communicate with you or your wives. I've  encouraged her.  I have not ignored any of these friendly offers  of support.  It is blatantly untrue to say that I have 'blown off'  people.
[/size][/color][/b]

Doug,

As I mentioned tto you on several occasions . . . We only live 10 minutes away.

If Larrisa is reluctant to use the phone, lets all go out to dinner.

YOU HAVE GOT TO GET HER OUT OF THE HOUSE!

OK, so tell her some night, that you are going out to dinner!  Set  it up with the offer DonAz made you.  Do not tell her you will be  meeting someone.  Get with DonAz yourself,  you are the man,  right?? and let them pick the restaurant.  DonAz's wife will have  some insight to some place that will be less intimidating to your  lady. 

You are supposed to be the man and she is waiting for you to take the lead, and so far . . .  well, not good.


-david 

[Bruce]

DWfunk is right on.  I would only add that I hope you will pay for everyone!

[Jet]

You are supposed to be the man and she is waiting for you to take the lead, and so far . . .  well, not good.

 

Dwfunk makes an excellent point here. If you continue to ask her if she wants to go places or do stuff, she will ALWAYS have an excuse why this isn't a good time. Come home from work, tell her to get dressed and take her out to dinner with DonAz and his wife (or just by yourselves for that matter). GET HER OUT OF THE HOUSE!!

In the first 6 months my wife was in the US if I came home and ASKED if she'd like to go out, she'd decline. However, everytime I showed up with theater tickets (or whatever) and said we HAVE to go out, she never once refused, and always had a great time.

[Yakboy]

dwfunk.... You are SO right!

Doug.. quite frankly if you are not at least considering the validity of the deluge of advice being sent your way then you are not open enough to succeed in this endeavour.

WE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU !!!

Although maybe you think you don't need it...

If so...

Whatever:huh:

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"]Yesterday,
After work, we went to an Indian casino a couple of miles away. Her new friend, Natalia joined us. After that I drove us over to the Cheesecake Factory for some serious dessert in the desert. Natalia played the role of interpreter. In the morning I had worked 9 to noon, so that deleted any chance of going to Church. And last weekend I had to to do my boss a favor and go to the NASCAR races up in Vegas. I'm working this coming Sunday, but the following Sunday should be open for Church. This week I'll try to arrange a dinner with DonAZ.   -doug
[/size]

[BC]

Photo,

Did Larysa enjoy the races in Vegas?

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="navy"]See my PM. I did not see the races. I did go to numerous parking lots though.[/color][/size][/b]

[BC]

Understand Photo.. me: "sure boss I'll go.. spring for two tickets??"

[KenC]

This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.  Only this conductor is full of excuses and justifications refusing all input that might have helped to avoid impending crash.
 
On November 10, 2005 jb wrote:
"I think you've talked yourself into believing in something that quite frankly, doesn't exists.

With regard to your post about what you know about dating FSU women and the need to show fidelity to one woman or lose her. If you did a WOVO trip to Ukraine with no more to go on than a few letters that were obviously not written by the girl herself, that was just double dumb. I've never said she isn't a good person, I've only said that you do not know if she is a good person. She's still very much a "pig-in-a-poke". You've bought the product without bothering to examine closely what you are getting into. Leslie is absolutely correct, WOVO has it's own rules, and you broke them all".
 
Photo's reply?-
"jb,
Many of your generalizations make sense, but they are only generalizations. You know very little of my specific relationship with Larisa. She has always written her own letters and we speak about them by phone. Why pretend you know about the communication between us or the alleged lack of communication? It's presumptuous. You're wrong. There are many ways of going about this. Your way is not the only way. If I do this over again, I'd go with one of the agencies you mentioned, but I got lucky with Larisa. jb, you are all doom and gloom".
 
Then BC warned:
"Photo,

Letters and Alexander Graham Bell do not a relationship make. It's lots of face to face time in and out of bed that count.

You are counting on being extremely lucky. Your lottery ticket has been bought on credit and you've already ordered the Ferarri, fully expecting the winnings you think you will be receiving.

I wish you no ill and maybe time will tell good tales, but at this point I can only think 'stupid stupid stupid..'

At least realize that the odds are very very slim".

And Photo's response?
"2- Success in dating is based, in a large part, on your ability to PERCEIVE the inner world of your potential mate".
 
And then Leslie chipped in with:
"snip It depends on your ability to perceive. snip

I got lucky. No doubt. I wrote to a few women, and gravitated toward Larisa, because of my perception of her, and her reaction to me.

You don't speak Russian.  Larisa does not speak English.  All your communication is through an interpreter.  You have 1 week of face time together of which only a few hours were alone.  By your own admission you didn't get a proper kiss let alone move to a sexual relationship.  Yet you post assertions like this?

Are you telepathic ??"

To which Photo says:
"The fact is, sometimes your rules don't mean anything. Sometimes it just comes down to personal choices and perceptions that can't be measured by outsiders"


Added by Jet:
 
"Plain and simple, unless you and your prospective mate share a common language, you can't perceive anything."
 
Photo's response:
"
Plain and simple, unless you and your prospective mate share a common language, you can't perceive anything. Cut me some slack. I may be jumping in, but not with my eyes closed. They're wide open."

Conner added:
"Give up folks, it's useless.  Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

There is no way I will believe that there is little difference between:

-- Same language and objectively distant; vs.

-- Different languages and subjective closeness."
Photo again:
"There IS a difference between seeing red flags and ignoring red flags, and a difference between seeing 'quality' and ignoring quality. The art of perception."
 
To which I said:
"Without a common language, you cannot perceive crap."
 
To which Photo justifies:
"My point about a guy's ability to perceive is this:

"Some guys can determine in a week what another guy will not perceive in a year. I've seen that happen."
 
The Andrew tried to help with this:
"Life is not a gamble. people who live their lives as though  it is usually end up as many gamblers - broke, unhappy and definately underperforming.

There are times in life when we must take a risk, but only a fool would take that risk without minmising his chance of failure by increasing his knowledge. Even 'professional' gamblers minimise their risk. Only mug punters believe in gambler's luck.

Yeah, I admit it. I've always been a casual carefree gambler kind of guy. Life is a gamble.

These are the words of a gambler and loser - a professional would never say them. Life is full of chances and opportunities, very few are a gamble and life as a whole certainly is not.

These are the words of a desperate man, one about to take the last hand of Blackjack and doubling down with his last chips. Now, I am a tolerant sort of guy, but you are taking blind chances with other people's lives. Even if you have found a woman so desperate to leave her country that she will agree to marry a man she can not face being intimate with (just a guess, but I think I am right!), you should and do know more about what she is letting herself in for. You owe it to her to reduce the risks, for both of you.

At the moment you are blindly determined on a course, a course that may well ruin your life, what is left of it. If you take the trouble to build a proper relatoinship, where physical intimacy is normal and desired by both parties, where there is common language, where there is a common understanding of goals then you have a chance to make the autumn of your years fulfiling and joyous. Blow it now and you will die alone and unhappy. At your age, you do not have many chances to get things wrong."
 And then the famous words of Photo came with:
 
"...If it all works out, it all works out. If not, it just wasn't meant to be. That's okay. I'll go with the flow."
 
After much debate about how a failed K-1 would impact Larysa's life, I concluded:
"I don't think anyone here hopes for Photoguy to fail.  It just is difficult to be supportive when he ignores obvious potential problems and takes the position of advising others with his "wisdom."  Most see the train wreck coming and that is what is so frustrating about it.  But I surly do not wish him anything but good luck."
 
How does that Johnny Cash song go?  I hear that train a coming..............
KenC

[jb]

Excellent post, KenC, it really sums up the history of PhotoGuy's experience.

I had posted so much negativity early on with his trip report and e-mail courtship that I had not wanted to pile on now.  But I see nothing positive in P/G's future, truly, it's a train wreck unfolding in slow motion.  Further, how can we measure Larrisa's pain when she goes home with nothing after this is over?  I just can't imagine a man doing this to someone he supposedly loves.

Of course, there is no way to measure stupid.

[Son of Clyde]

These open offers from Ken in Richmond and Don in Arizona are what it's all about. It is what makes this a great forum. Support. I am wondering if it would be possible for Ken's or Don's wife to phone Doug and for Doug to be "busy" and ask Larysa to take the message. It will be a creative way of getting Larysa on the line. Once two Russian women get on the phone it is difficult to get them to stop talking. Even if they are strangers, they won't be strangers for long. This is another stumbling block that may be overcome with a little creativity. Ken and JB, you don't have to count Doug out at this point in time. This "I told you so" attitude is helping no one. If I were in Doug's shoes I would not give up until day 89, knowing I had given it 100%.

[Son of Clyde]

Also, it may not have been the best idea of leaving Larysa alone for those 3 days but is it worth Doug losing his job? Where would he be then? I seem to remember Doug taking some extra time off in the beginning to spend with Larysa.

[Leslie]

Well I agree with SOC.

Doug stopped listening a long time ago.  He has a perfect right to do that. 

All this hostile invective will achieve NOTHING.

Around about 15th of May is the deadline.  Though in practice a working decision will have to be made 3-4 weeks before that.

My money is on wedding bells

 

 

 

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="navy"]Larysa is a fine woman.
I'm putting a lot of time and energy into our success.
Yes, life is gamble. So?
She has a few new friend and I wish she had more.
I'm working on it.  -doug[/color][/size][/b]

[jb]

My money is not on wedding bells.  Doug is not a complete fool, although he engages in foolish behavior, I think he understands the hardships that lie ahead if he were to take an unknowing plunge into the vast unknown.   While Larissa may be a wonderful woman, she's not ready for this, neither is Doug.  Two people meeting at the wrong time at the wrong place.

Simple as that.

[Bruno]

[size="3"][/size]
[size="3"]My money is on wedding bells [/size] 

Me too ... but i think that the first year together will be very difficult... due to language problem, lack of real fiancee relationship before the K1, etc ...

If with time, these marriage become a succes, it will be due to the work of both partner... and if it finish by a divorce, both are responsible... Larissa is not a child... She know in what adventure she go... if she have take the risk, it is because she believe that it can work...

In anycase, i advice people to not follow the Doug method who is really risky... but nothing can lead us to think that all is doomed now for them... Doug and Larissa have use a non usual way but nothing allow us to say that they will not reach the goal by using these way...

Wait and see... not until May ( end of K1 ) but more in 1 or 1.5 year...

[jb]

Leslie,

I've been looking, but I've not seen any "love" expressed in any of Doug's posts.  Since she's been here, it's all been about the struggle to keep her head above water, not about the positive things that make a marriage.

I have my doubts.

[KenC]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

This "I told you so" attitude is helping no one. If I were in Doug's shoes I would not give up until day 89, knowing I had given it 100%.

Clyde,

Just two points.

#1) Doug's difficulties are of his own making and should not be a suprise.

#2)Maybe a newbie or two can learn from this.

KenC

[jb]

Clyde,

We "told you so" about the video chat girls before you left to visit them.  Did it help?

Doug is no different than you were then, don't get all righteous on us now, you surely have no glass houses to protect, or do you?

[Leslie]

Well JB,

I reckon we are both students of human nature.  A middle aged man very rarely becomes a completely different person. 

I think Bruno's view is quite accurate, though I think spring 2008 is when things will unravel - If they do. 

We have never heard ANY views on Larisa's character from anyone's wife.  That is undiscovered country and may remain so.  Doug's motivation is clear to see.  I just hope it is shared by his future wife.

As for Bashing Doug so that the new guys in the gallery won't act like him.  Well, that is really OLD now.  Anyone can read Doug's story and draw appropriate conclusions. 

 

 

[groovlstk]

For once, I agree with Bruno.

Let's not have a funeral until we've got something to bury.