Living in Ukraine

[Oosik]

I may have a chance to live in Ukraine for a while (possibly years?). This is just a possibility, but how does that work? Pop out of the country every 3 months? If I marry my fiance there, how does that change it? I just read through the Ukraine consulate site, but it is not quite complete on the technicalities.

[dorogoyroberto]

Yes, one has to leave Ukraine every 90 days. I just make a weekend trip  to Warsaw, and I am OK for another three months...marrying a Ukrainian  citizen does not change anything.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[catzenmouse]

Oosik,

 Isn't your lady Russian? How would that work for living in Ukraine? Could you get married there if you chose to? Would she have to also leave every three months? Just some questions that came to mind.

Ken

[Albert]

Roberto, are you acquainted with Art O'Leary who hangs out at RWL?

He is married to UW gal and living in Sevastopol.  They found a way for him to get permanent residency so he doesn't have to leave every 3 months.

Do search on the RWL site for his e-mail address.

[dorogoyroberto]

Albert,

I know of Art O'Leary, yes, and have investigated permanent residency.  However, certain tax implications make it impractical for me, if not  flat out unwise...

I do appreciate your courtesy, however.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[bgreed]

Roberto,

I have been waiting to see some info on this topic as I am considering moving to the Ukraine long term to teach English.  Is there a business visa that allows a longer stay time or did that go away with the tourist visa so that everybody is now 90days.

After eating at Marios in Odessa I have also thought about opening an Italian resturant where you use the correct ingrediants to make the food.

[dorogoyroberto]

Mr. bgreed,

I really do not know for sure...perhaps someone who has traveled here on a business visa can answer?

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Michelangelo]

Yes, one has to leave Ukraine every 90 days. I just make a weekend trip  to Warsaw, and I am OK for another three months...marrying a Ukrainian  citizen does not change anything.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

Roberto, did you get married in Ukraine?  How difficult was that?  And does that mean you will need to go the K-3 route if you want to bring your wife to the US?   Also, once you marry her, is it easier for her to get a tourist visa to the US?

[dorogoyroberto]

Roberto, did you get married in Ukraine? How difficult was that? And  does that mean you will need to go the K-3 route if you want to bring  your wife to the US? Also, once you marry her, is it easier for her to  get a tourist visa to the US

Lilya and I are planning a summer wedding here. The process is very  straightforward, and I have the necessary documents (I am a widower.)  See: http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/amcit_marriage_civil_eng.html

We will not do a DCF (Direct Consular Filing, incidentally a process  possibly not subject to IMBRA) nor do we plan a K-3 since we will not be living  stateside. Rather, we will get a tourist visa so that she can meet my  family; we expect obtaining that visa will be relatively easy since we  both have close ties to Kiev, i.e., we live here.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Michelangelo]

Aren't DCF and K-3  part of the same process?  And what is IMBRA? Thanks for your advice...

[dorogoyroberto]

Aren't DCF and K-3 part of the same process? And what is IMBRA? Thanks for your advice..

Well, the DCF would involve the I-130 petition filed for the K-3 visa,  true. IMBRA is the International Marriage Brokers Act of 2005, being  discussed in this very Immigration and Visas forum...

I should add that it is possible that the DCF process might be indeed be subject to IMBRA...this statute's full extent simply is not evident yet.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Oosik]

My fiance is Ukrainian.

What are the tax implications?
What is the cheapest way to pop out of the country to refresh my visa?  Sadly, the folks that stamp my visa have no respect for the passport  real estate, they seem to think using up 4 pages per trip is standard.  I will have to get a new passort in a while!!


I was thinking I should get a job as a dishwasher/ prepcook at a  mexican restraunt for a couple of months to round out my mexican  cooking knowledge, and open a taqueria over there. I make a mean chile  verde, and pretty darn good fresh salsa.

Anyone know how tough it would be to bring my dog over? Her mom does have a big yard.

[dorogoyroberto]

[user=620]Oosik[/user] wrote:

"My fiance is Ukrainian.

What are the tax implications?
What is the cheapest way to pop out of the country to refresh my visa?  Sadly, the folks that stamp my visa have no respect for the passport  real estate, they seem to think using up 4 pages per trip is standard.  I will have to get a new passort in a while!!

I was thinking I should get a job as a dishwasher/ prepcook at a  mexican restraunt for a couple of months to round out my mexican  cooking knowledge, and open a taqueria over there. I make a mean chile  verde, and pretty darn good fresh salsa.

Anyone know how tough it would be to bring my dog over? Her mom does have a big yard."

Mr. Oosik,

The cheapest destination that can be reasonably accessed for "visa  refreshment" is Warsaw for a overnight/weekend stay, considering cost  of airfare, meals and hotel.

I brought my two elderly cats to Ukraine with me. I used this as  reference: http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/amcit_pets_entry_eng.html

Should you bring your dog, he would have to be carried in the  pressurized cargo hold for animals. To facilitate bringing him through  customs, I strongly urge you to consider using the VIP Service  available at Borispol airport.

Information on that is here: http://www.airport-borispol.kiev.ua/vip/  -- you, your dog and your luggage would be processed at Terminal C,  which is efficient and rather classy. No lines, no waiting at customs,  no collecting and toting your baggage and no hassle.

However, I have a services provider I have used twice here for the VIP  service, with 100% satisfaction. His name is Andrew Pypko and his  website is here: http://handy.com.ua/index.php?mode=vip&lang=en

My cats, along with a great deal of luggage, made the journey safely.  The advantage of using Mr. Pypko is that he also arranges for ground  transportation.

All in all, my move went quite smoothly.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Longshanks]

If you marry a Ukrainian woman you can apply for a private 5 year visa.  You do not have to leave Ukraine during this time if you register with the local police.  You can register as a entrepreneur / consultant and only pay $1000 on the First $100,000 of income.  There are some other options available for investors.  For other visa types it was 6 month max stay or register with the police but the last president supposedly changed this time to 3 months.  I have lived here for almost 5 years with no problems.  (Though I am now traveling more for my job so I am in and out of Ukraine every month.)  Don't be afraid to move and live here.  It is not difficult and the experience is invaluable.  Learn some Russian as soon as possible.  Make local friends.  Don't trust every Expat/english speaking person you meet here.  There are some of questionable motives.  Keep your wits about you and you will do fine.  Teaching English will make it difficult to live a western lifestyle, at least at first.
Contact Rick DeLong at postmaster@tryukraine.com for a non-mercenary and non-UW seacher point of view and help getting established.  He places many people each month in positions throughout Ukraine.  He is not motivated by the Mail Order Bride Business.  But only if you are serious about living here.  Feel free to contact me also.
Good luck

[Longshanks]

[indent]
This is taken from Rick's website.
Registering as a Private Entrepreneur in Ukraine [/indent]
 

Registering as an entrepreneur is a good way of legalizing your personal business activities in Ukraine and enjoying a low tax rate (see below). Most likely you will want to have this done by one of countless law firms (Kyiv U.S. Embassy site), especially if you do not know Russian or Ukrainian. Or, you could do it yourself, perhaps with the help of a local assistant or interpreter. Below is a an overview of the registration process.

Registration at OVIR (VVIR) Foreign citizens who legally reside in Ukraine may register as private entrepreneurs and pay taxes on their earnings. To register as an entrepreneur foreigners must first register at their place of residence at the local OVIR (department of visas and registration). Foreigners must register six months of arrival or within six months after their last border crossing.
This OVIR registration is widely viewed as a nuisance and waste of time. Many if not most foreigners ignore it, but you cannot register as a private entrepreneur without it. You will need to pick up a form for yourself and a form for your landlord to fill out from the OVIR and apply to have your clean police record in Ukraine confirmed (which takes up to a month, unless you pay a pricey fee to have it done in less time). You will need to bring these forms and some passport-size photos back to the OVIR to get a registration stamp in your passport.

What makes this a nuisance is that foreigners tend to move a lot, which, to my understand, requires re-registering at your new place of residence. Secondly, this registration is only good for six months. In six months you will need to go through the same process over again. It is possible that since you cannot register as a private entrepreneur without this registration stamp in your passport, you could register once and then either forget about it or travel abroad occasionally to renew your status in Ukraine.

Taxpayer's number Regardless, one must register at his place of residence before becoming a "private entrepreneur." Next, one must receive a taxpayer's identification code. This is the easy part. In Kyiv, you go to the central city tax office at Sholudenka 33/19 any workday between 9:30 and 18:00 with your passport and fill out a small form. In a week or two you return to pick up your taxpayer's code free of charge (it's free to become a taxpayer, but you have to pay to register a business...).
Registration BureauNext you go to your local registration bureau where commercial entities are registered. You'll need to bring a copy of your taxpayer's number certificate, pick up a "Form #10," go make a payment (currently 34 hr.) at the nearest bank, bring back the receipt, fill out the form, and choose the types of commercial activity that best match your planned business activities. You may indicate up to six types of commercial activities
Statistics Bureau and Pension Fund It doesn't matter which of these two government bodies you visit first.
Tax officeNow it's time to visit your local tax office and register there. You will need to decide which of two or three tax systems you will follow. Most entrepreneurs choose to pay the "single tax," which is a tax system with simplified bookkeeping that has you pay a fixed tax monthly or quarterly regardless of your earnings.
[align=left]Taxes and Accounting for Private Entrepreneurs
[align=left] [/align]
Most likely you will choose the "single tax" option (one of three taxation options). This is the best choice for consultants, language teachers, and other specialists. You will have a fixed monthly tax consisting of two parts--a tax fee established by local tax authorities in the range of 20-200 UAH (usually 200 hryvnia), and a contribution to the Pension Fund (essentially social security), currently 84 UAH. This means your fixed monthly tax burden will be no more than $54 USD, regardless of your monthly earnings (as long as your yearly earnings are under $100,000 USD)![/align]
Tax payment scheduleThe tax established by your local tax authorities is paid quarterly for one quarter in advance. In other words, you will usually pay 3 x 200 UAH each quarter to the tax authorities. In addition, you will need to pay the Pension Fund every month (not quarter). If you hire employees (up to ten are allowed), you will need to pay social insurance taxes every quarter as well.
If you will be leaving the country or otherwise discountinuing your business activities, you may report this fact to the your local tax office and not be required to pay taxes for the months you do not work.

Accounting and fines As I have been told at the central tax adminstration, private entreneurs who pay the "single tax" are supposed need to keep track of their business-related expenses and earnings in a special accounting book that is given to them when they register with the tax inspection. Bookkeeping requirements are not as strict as for those who use the standard tax option, which requires them to properly document all earnings and deductible expenses. As a "single tax-payer" you may be checked or audited, however, I was told at the tax administration that in reality your bookkeeping is a formality, and there are no fines for keeping inadequate records. After all, your tax burden does not depend on your earnings or business-related expenses

[dorogoyroberto]

If you marry a Ukrainian woman you can apply for a private 5  year visa. You do not have to leave Ukraine during this time if you  register with the local police.

Mr. Longshanks,

I got my private five-year before marriage (and before the visa-free  regime.) In Kiev,  OVIR (VVIR) made it very clear to me that one  way to avoid leaving Ukraine every three months was to register as a  private entrepreneur, a status that makes zero sense for someone on a  limited income; specifically me.

True, it may be an option for many forum members, but note that two  individuals I know who have gone this route have had to re-register  twice yearly and have found that a "complicated, annoying process," to quote one gentleman. In  fact, he has thrown in the proverbial towel and is leaving Ukraine.  Pity. Living here is quite interesting.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Albert]

Roberto, I am still confused by this issue.  You discussed two methods for those who want to live in Ukraine long term.

1. Stay in Ukraine and follow some registration process every 6 months.

2. Leave Ukraine on a short trip every 3 months.

Apparently you chose number two because number 1 is "a complicated, annoying process."

I find it hard to comprehend that doing number 1 twice a year can be worse than doing number 2 four times a year . . . . . and not much less expensive also.

What am I not understanding here?

[dorogoyroberto]

Albert,

I am retired on disability. To register as a private entrepreneur seems bogus and does not make much sense for me.

I have invited the individuals who have chosen a different route to  visit and post here, and if they do (and I hope they will,) you will  have the opportunity to ask them more fully about the process.

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Longshanks]

If you are married to a UW you do not need to leave every three months or register as an entrepreneur.  You are married and granted the right to live with your wife.  You do not have to register every 3 months or 6 months.  If you really want to know the frequency just ask.  I know many expats retired or semi-retired here.  None of them ever complain about registering.  And the bright side is that it is much easier now than in the Soviet days........

[dorogoyroberto]

If you are married to a UW you do not need to leave every three  months or register as an entrepreneur. You are married and granted the  right to live with your wife. You do not have to register every 3  months or 6 months. If you really want to know the frequency just ask.  I know many expats retired or semi-retired here. None of them ever  complain about registering. And the bright side is that it is much  easier now than in the Soviet days.....

Mr. Longshanks,

Please consider this a request for more info.

Indeed, I would like to not have to "refresh" my status by leaving ever  three months AND I do not wish to register as an entrepreneur...how  does one do this? How often does on have to register?

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[dorogoyroberto]

RWD members,

A quick post to publically acknowledge Mr. Longshanks for his great assistance, and I will post further details soon.

Suffice it to say that he put me in touch with a gentleman who lives in  Kiev but does NOT have to leave Ukraine every 90 days. How is this  possible?

It is not marriage to a Ukrainian citizen that is the key, it is the  length of one's visa. True, Ukraine is 90 days' visa-free for Americans  and certain other nationals. But if one has a five-year Private visa  -- as this gentleman and I both do -- you can stay here without  becoming a permanent resident for that period. This gentleman has  traveled, but not regularly. He noted that, as Mr. Longshanks wrote,  that his experience was not unique as there are others here with the  same visa status who are also not permanent residents and do not  regularly travel out of Ukraine.

Obviously, my inquiries of Ukrainian officials were very much  misunderstood by them. So, Mr. Longshanks and his friend have saved me  both hassle and money. Lilya and I are very grateful!

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Turboguy]

Sadly, the folks that stamp my visa have no respect for the passport real estate, they seem to think using up 4 pages per trip is standard. I will have to get a new passort in a while!!

With all my travels to Russia and Ukriane, I was running out of pages too and my passport is only a couple of years old.

I have good news.  You can send your passport off and have good old uncle sam add pages to your passport at no charge.   Mine just came back a few days ago.  You need to allow about 30 days unless you opt for the expidited service for which there is a fee.   If you are going to be using a lot they will add 48 pages upon request.  Otherwise, without counting it looks like two dozen new ones.

[Albert]

Roberto, good news on the 'not leaving every three months' situation.  Sorry I didn't push you more on this issue earlier as I knew of another guy who lived in Ukraine for over two years and didn't leave at all.  Course it could have just been someone violating the rules and not getting caught.  That is one problem when we exchange info:  What is legally possible and what some people are getting away with.  Never quite know which is which.

Anyway, this guy I knew who stayed 2 years or more . . .  he did register after 6 months.  Not sure if he had to register every 6 months after that also.

So what do you know about the 6 month registration?

[Michelangelo]

That's funny...some of us American's might be "illegal immigrants" to Ukraine :-)

[dorogoyroberto]

[user=36]albert[/user] wrote:

"So what do you know about the 6 month registration?"

Albert,

The OVIR staffer and I did not discuss that and, to be honest, I was  rather focused on the five-year Private visa and the knowledge I need  not travel anymore to "refresh" my status. Now, she said they may be more difficult to obtain and I have to wonder if that will be the case.

The only reference I have ever seen to a "6-month registration" had to  do with a Business visa,  but I have never had one and do not know  its requirements...

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine