If you asked me: "what's not to like in Ukraine?"

[Rubicon]

Excellent post, Jumper!!   

I think as Ed pointed out it can happen in the west where people are afraid to intervene because of disparity of attackers violence compared to ability of a bystander to do anything.

The problem with this situation is that the attacker knew he had impunity because of his political/financial position; and that is more the reason I believe that bystander were unwilling to do much if anything at all. 

I was also not at all impressed with the seen ability of the bodyguard, if that's what he actually was.  Seems that he was just a drunken friend along for the evening.  A real bodyguard would have grabbed him and hustled him out of there immediately, and perhaps deliberately show the pistol in his waistband to discourage any type of intervention.

[SANDRO43]

When in Germany one of my favorite brews was authentic Lowenbrau, brewed in Germany I believe since 1363 under the Rheinheitsgebote (Germany purity law for beer which requires just pure natural ingredients and no chemicals or stabilizers at all)  It is pronounced  Lewvenbroy, which means literally Lions Brew.

Löwenbräu (German pronunciation: [ˈløːvənbʁɔʏ]; UK: /ˈlɜːvənbrɔɪ/, US: /ˈloʊ.ənbraʊ/, or /ˈlʌvənbrɔɪ/) is a brewery in Munich that produces a traditional Munich-style beer. It is owned by the American-Brazilian-Belgian company Anheuser-Busch InBev. Like other premium German beers, it is brewed according to the German "Reinheitsgebot" (Purity Law) dating back to 1516. Löwenbräu means "lion's brew".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Löwenbräu

[Rubicon]

Ukrainian youth about their native language:



(photo: http://smetanka.tumblr.com/post/1251240772/the-last-picture-from-mondays-language-rally)


The quote, surprisingly from Karl Marx, indicates that it’s okay only for “a guest, a slave and an occupier” to be speaking a language that’s not the official language of the state in which they reside.

I have heard that Russia can also be xenophobic and Russians might be hostile and even violent towards someone speaking Uzbek or some other language other then Russian.  As you know there are now signs and graffiti all over Russia saying "Russia for Russians".  Seems to me that western Ukrainians are much more sensitive about Russians because of the history that Russia occupied Ukraine for so many years.  I have not read about the Ukrainians rolling tanks and troops into Russia and forcing an unwanted government upon them; so perhaps people should be circumspect and consider the history of Ukraine in order to understand and respect their opinions and positions.

Many western Ukrainians are also upset about the agreement to allow extended agreement for Russian naval base and Russian FSU in Crimea and it seems that when you look at their history over the last 100 years or more it should be easy to understand why.

Hopefully these two groups can work towards continued cooperation instead of continued disagreement or animosity.  But ultimately Ukraine definitely has a right to sovereignty of their country and that needs to be respected by Russian Federation.  Ukraine seems to have gone from one extreme with the former leader who was deliberately upsetting Moscow to the new leader who seems to be most interested in making money for himself and his cronies as opposed to improving the country.  Time will tell what is going to happen in the long run.  I do see some certain improvements being made in Ukraine in anticipation of the World Soccer Cup being there.  Let's hope that that is only a beginning and that bigger and better improvements continue to come.  That would warm the depths of my heart and make me much more willing to return for some further visits.

My posts are sometimes caustic because I get frustrated when I see such as this video but overall I like Russian/Ukrainian people very much and have been making more local friends here to improve my understanding of their mentality and way of life.  Some of the ladies I know here are really completely Americanized and they do not seem to wish to return; others have roots and go back often.  All are either married or have boyfriends so of course they are just friends and acquaintances.

[Rubicon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Löwenbräu

Sandro,

You're post is partially correct.  Lowenbrau has been indeed brewed since 1383.  My memory was off a bit.  It has been regulated by the Reinheitsgebot I believe since 1516, providing that wikipedia is correct.  We both know that sometimes they make mistakes.

I am pretty sure that Lowenbrau is the oldest continuously brewed beer in Germany proper, and it is immensely popular both at Octoberfest and at smaller bier fests all over the country throughout the year.

LowenbrauYou +1'd this publicly. Undomyweb.tiscali.co.uk/beerglasscollector/Lowenbrau.htm - Cached - Block all myweb.tiscali.co.uk resultsNot helpful? You can block myweb.tiscali.co.uk results when you're signed in to search.myweb.tiscali.co.ukLöwenbräu has a long history dating back to 1383 when it was first brewed at ... Inscription: Löwenbräu Seit 1383 Tradition in München. Height: 15.5 cms ...

[Boethius]

Here are some pronunciations of L'viv, and other Ukrainian words.

http://www.forvo.com/word/%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B2_%28lviv%29/


Here's the "silence" at the end typical in Ukrainian - one Russian, and one Ukrainian pronunciation -

http://www.forvo.com/word/%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2/

[Rubicon]

Here are some pronunciations of L'viv, and other Ukrainian words.

http://www.forvo.com/word/%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B2_%28lviv%29/


Here's the "silence" at the end typical in Ukrainian - one Russian, and one Ukrainian pronunciation -

http://www.forvo.com/word/%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2/

It sounds French to me the way the first two people pronounce it!!  What does the name mean if anything??

[JohnDearGreen]

How many women do you know  would be prepared, willing and able to hit someone in the head with a bottle?    Is this one of your criteria for your dream woman?   

Apparently, the 20 year old girl was a model and singer:
http://kp.ua/daily/073111/289162/
http://kp.ua/daily/070711/289120/

[Rubicon]

Apparently, the 20 year old girl was a model and singer:
http://kp.ua/daily/073111/289162/
http://kp.ua/daily/070711/289120/

So much for her being lower class.  Either way comments like that are pathetic and INAPPROPRIATE.  I hope she has enough real friends and connections to help put the bum away for awhile.

[Gator]

I think most women would be prepared to hit an attacker in the head with a bottle....

Most women?  Most men I know are not prepared to take it to such a level, to swing a heavy blunt instrument with enough force to fracture a cranium,  to watch the victim lie motionless on the floor in a growing pool of blood (and head wounds bleed profusely), to possibly cause brain damage, to face criminal charges......
 
 

....and I commend her for making the split second decision to do so.

It was not split second.   
 
Returning to your point about classy people, being a model does not necessarily make one classy.  Although it can  happen as I am very serious with a former model who worked in the profession for 14 years.   I prefer to date a RW who sings in a cappella group, who lectures at a prominent university, who knows fusion cuisine, who is a docent at the Hermitage, who organizes and facilitates international business meetings (each an example of RW I have dated).  You can have all the RW who drink too much in a bar, hit people in the head with a bottle, and roll around in the dirt on the floor.  Your kind of woman.
 

Do you have internal conflicts because you are afraid to stand up to bullies yet more than willing to criticize and condemn those who do so??

Who said I am afraid, or have never done that?  That is why I know it can be stupid.  Stick to the facts Mr. Macho.

Take a good look in the mirror and think again about what you said about the girl. 

What does a mirror have to do with it?  Are you dyslexic?

[Rubicon]

Most women?  Most men I know are not prepared to take it to such a level, to swing a heavy blunt instrument with enough force to fracture a cranium,  to watch the victim lie motionless on the floor in a growing pool of blood (and head wounds bleed profusely), to possibly cause brain damage, to face criminal charges......

A bottle is hardly a heavy blunt instrument which could be swung with enough force by a young lady (who is startled and at best merely trying to shoo off her attacker) to fracture a cranium, et al.  Your grossly over exaggeration of the facts in support of your callousness is now noted.
 
 

It was not split second.

 

Her decision to grab a bottle certainly was split second.  She did not have another choice as far as I can ascertain.
 

Returning to your point about classy people, being a model does not necessarily make one classy.  Although it can  happen as I am very serious with a former model who worked in the profession for 14 years.   I prefer to date a RW who sings in a Capella group, who lectures at a prominent university, who knows fusion cuisine, who is a docent at the Hermitage, who organizes and facilitates international business meetings (each an example of RW I have dated).  You can have all the RW who drink too much in a bar, hit people in the head with a bottle, and roll around in the dirt on the floor.  Your kind of woman.

Now you're really piling it on deep, and showing your lack of morals and character.  Now our poor girl must sing a Capella, lecture, know fusion cuisine (what a snobbish joke of a thing to say Gator), be a docent at the Hermitage, etc etc or SHE JUST DOES NOT MEASURE UP!!  Heaven forbid, she truly is low class and by God she had it coming!!  Just curious, which major magazines has your lady friend been featured in??  Don't bother, we all know that a million Russian ladies think they are professional models, and most don't even comprehend the least bit of what that really entails.

Yes Gator my kind of woman drinks too much in a bar and rolls around in the dirt on the floor.  Now that you have ME figured out, why don't you go back to the young lady in question and explain why you are such an arrogant bag of wind that you think you are entitled to call her "low class"???
 

Who said I am afraid, or have never done that?  That is why I know it can be stupid.  Stick to the facts Mr. Macho.

  Doubtful Gator.  IIRC you recently suffered a concussion.  How did that happen??  Perhaps playing golf and you over swung and hit yourself in the head with your own club??

 

What does a mirror have to do with it?  Are you dyslexic?

Very cute Gator, but not sufficient to excuse your misspoken insult of a young women you have never met.  No you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what makes you feel so superior to this young woman to allow yourself the Freudian slip of making such an insulting statement about someone else's daughter/sister/friend.

[Misha]

How many women do you know  would be prepared, willing and able to hit someone in the head with a bottle?

None, but under duress we never do know what a person is or is not capable of doing 

[ECOCKS]

After taking a punch and knowing that she was raised in a culture where no one was coming to her aid I think most women would. I am certain my wife, at least two of my SIL's, several wives of expats I know and even a few dozen AW would under those circumstances.

[Yuri-the-fat]

So much for her being lower class.  Either way comments like that are pathetic and INAPPROPRIATE. 

The girl has shown lots of class here (for those who are 18 and older)    : 
http://shockmodels.su/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22642&sid=ed82049c7ac04f009058867574f0d40b

[Boethius]

It sounds French to me the way the first two people pronounce it!!  What does the name mean if anything??

It has no meaning.  L'viv was named after Lev, the son of Danylo Halytskyj, or King Daniel of Galicia.

[Rubicon]

The girl has shown lots of class here (for those who are 18 and older)    : 
http://shockmodels.su/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22642&sid=ed82049c7ac04f009058867574f0d40b

None of us know if this is really who she is/was.  Either way, even if it is, she does not deserve to be insulted in any/way/shape or form.  She turned down the thug boys offer to go somewhere with him and drop her drawers, and for that she was dragged by the hair and pummeled unconscious.  Leave her alleged character out of it and focus on the fact that she was severely harassed, attacked and beaten by a politician.  It's a typical dirty trick of legal council and other smug type people to try to sully the image of a woman who resists a rape or an attack; when the real issue is the behavior of the attacker.

[The Natural]

The girl has shown lots of class here (for those who are 18 and older)    : 
http://shockmodels.su/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22642&sid=ed82049c7ac04f009058867574f0d40b

You shouldn't put up a link like that here. Remember, there are children and Americans here 

[Rubicon]

You shouldn't put up a link like that here. Remember, there are children and Americans here 

Ha ha ha, funny stuff there Natural.  Don't be fooled by illusions of grandeur.  Some of us Americans can be a down to earth type.  I just posted a song on the next thread above (Music I love).  Check it out, you might like it!!!

[Rubicon]

It has no meaning.  L'viv was named after Lev, the son of Danylo Halytskyj, or King Daniel of Galicia.

Yes I noticed that.  I looked it up shortly after your previous post.  I absolutely love the bright colors and there IS a Lion of the coat of arms for Galicia!!

Same bright colors on the flag of Ukraine today.  I hereby request and nominate that Ukraine also adopt the flag of ancient Galicia!!

What I love and what is so fascinating to me about European history is how there were so many various kingdoms which at one time or another ruled particular areas, lost them, regained them, etc.

Galicia (Eastern Europe) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaYou +1'd this publicly. Undoen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Eastern_Europe) - CachedSimilar - Block all en.wikipedia.org resultsNot helpful? You can block en.wikipedia.org results when you're signed in to search.en.wikipedia.orgThis article is about the region in Eastern Europe. For the Spanish region ...
Tribal area - Origin and variations of the name - Ethnographic group of Galicia

[Yuri-the-fat]

You shouldn't put up a link like that here. Remember, there are children and Americans here 

I figured if Americans can handle Sarah Palin's face, they will probably handle these pics.

[Rubicon]

I figured if Americans can handle Sarah Palin's face, they will probably handle these pics.

Ouch!!  Personally I've got the hots for Ann Coultier....

[Boethius]

The photos are a nice way to smear the girl - not suggesting they're not genuine, just that it does colour perceptions.

On not getting involved - In Soviet times, one of the favourite ways to entrap someone and put them in jail was to create a "false fight".  A man is beating a helpless woman.  A bystander intervenes.  The bystander hits the man, and, shortly thereafter, is arrested on a charge, usually, hooliganism.  The man and woman testify against him (no charges are brought against them), and the bystander gets two years in jail.  It was as common as dirt, and is still used against those who are "inconvenient" in some way.  So I would not judge harshly those who do not get involved.   



One of my sons had a habit of intervening to protect those bullied.  Admirable, but as he got older, that also meant intervening in boys' fights.  My boys can handle themselves, but I started dissuading him from interfering because every month, I would read about some bystander who intervened in a drunken brawl, and his reward was being stabbed to death.  Those fights were usually between low lifes who will go on to sell drugs, shoot their competitors, and generally, not contribute anything positive to society.  They enjoy going to clubs and provoking fights.  So, I told him don't be a hero.  Call the police.  I want to instill this in him before he is old enough to go out to clubs.

[Rubicon]

Those are actually very good and accurate lessons for your boys.  One must be very careful to know when or when not to engage.  It's absolutely not worth it to get involved in the affairs of criminal types. 

Thanks for the PM.  Will do.  Like you I speak much softer in public but can easily get carried away on net.  I am trying very hard to make progress towards a softer kinder gentler Rubicon.  It's not easy because as Daveman so properly noted I sometimes wear my heart on my sleeve.  I do think however I have made a bit of progress towards the goal.

[Rubicon]

I figured if Americans can handle Sarah Palin's face, they will probably handle these pics.

This bit of fun trivia is for you, Yuri-the-fat.  BTW welcome to the forum, and where are you from, or where do you currently reside??  Regarding Sarah Palin:  although I am a registered Republican I would never vote for her as I believe she is only about pushing her book and getting paid.  She could barely finish two years in the Alaska governors office and complained bitterly about the media, how could she possibly take the heat in the highest office in the nation, and one of the most prominent positions in the world??  She is barely qualified anymore to run a county council, IMO. 

WTF Is It Now?!?: Shrill whiner all turd, no birdYou +1'd this publicly. Undomaruthecrankpot.blogspot.com/.../shrill-whiner-all-turd-no-bird.htm... - CachedJul 29, 2009 – Shrill whiner all turd, no bird · Maureen Dowd: Lipsticked barracuda is in reality a whinging, pissy, Nixon-like diva. ...

[Yuri-the-fat]

This bit of fun trivia is for you, Yuri-the-fat.  BTW welcome to the forum, and where are you from, or where do you currently reside??

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum, Rubicon. I currently reside in the US and I'm from Ukraine originally.

None of us know if this is really who she is/was.  Either way, even if it is, she does not deserve to be insulted in any/way/shape or form.  She turned down the thug boys offer to go somewhere with him and drop her drawers, and for that she was dragged by the hair and pummeled unconscious.  Leave her alleged character out of it and focus on the fact that she was severely harassed, attacked and beaten by a politician.  It's a typical dirty trick of legal council and other smug type people to try to sully the image of a woman who resists a rape or an attack; when the real issue is the behavior of the attacker.

I couldn't care less if Marina was a nun or a whore, and if Roman was a bum or an influential politician. The judge will define the components of crime based on the evidence.

[BC]

Saying that she is "low class" is in incredibly poor taste IMO and smacks of blaming the victim for what the attacker did.  Women have long complained that some men will attempt to blame the victim and in this case we can see that classical scenario repeating itself.  He (the attacker) gave false witness to the police about her actions, and here you are referring her to being as low class.  I think you should seriously reconsider that statement.

Rubicon,

I found Gator's opinion quite ok.  As you see below, his statement is general in nature, or at least I take it that way.  Of course he does not know the woman personally, nor does she post here or is a prospective mate or wife of a Member here.  Maybe you do thus feel insulted?

You seem like a 'save the world' type, but on one hand you criticize Gator for his comments, on the other make disparaging comments directly addressed Sarah Palin's qualifications.  I make this remark not that I disagree with your remarks about Sarah, but instead to remind you that this is an internet forum and not a discussion where everyone is sitting at the same table.  Maybe you consider your remarks about Sarah more of  a public figure thing, but in light of the err.. entertaining pictures that were linked to upthread, if they truly depict her, they put this woman squat in the middle of the public realm... LOL

I agree with Gator that "There are low class people in both genders.", so what's the big deal?

Lighten up a bit.

Exactly what I was thinking.   Imagine what she was saying.  There are low class people in both genders.   Still, there is no excuse for what the young thug did.