"Why don't you just date an American woman?"

[Gylden]

It is hard (Impossible) to NOT agree with these objective observations.  Here is a nice example, of which there are millions.  Man is a boob.  Woman in control.  Girls Night Out.  Do you think this would run in the USA 10 - 20 years ago?  If this were ONLY ONE example, it would be humorous ... but it is systemic of how current society in the USA is imaging the male gender.   OF COURSE, this does not apply to everyone, individually.  Just like it is not true that ALL people are fat.  But, it is a clear and obvious generality

I think humor is just a popular way to advertise, it goes both ways.
That said, which woman do you find sexier?
 

[Gylden]

Here is another.
 

[erikmagenta]

Funny stuff Glyden.  Are those vids in Europe?  To be honest I am not sure we have any that good here in the USA, as they might be deemed "sexist" and cause a company to lose money.  Of course in the case of Hooters and some other such "breastarants" there was just an article, I think on the net, that those type of restaurants are doing great business and making a profit, while others are losing money.  Just goes to show that guys really do enjoy that kind of stuff and will "pay" for it so to speak.

I also agree with you that for every commercial putting down men (allegedly, as it is open to interpretation), there are often nearly as many (I say nearly as many, because IIRC there was a time period when the majority seemed to be putting down men) which make fun of women.

[missAmeno]

Stop it.  I have noted rather obvious facts.  I am NOT making a mountain out of a mole hill.  At one point, you say these points do NOT exist.  Then, you suggest IF they do exist then the fault is MINE because I find them "harmful" or "scary".   NO.  NO NO  Let's take one point at a time. 

So after all it was "woman in control"    But what is bothering you so much? She is not in control of your life and not in control of her husband's life, she is in control of her own life. Do you feel powerless if women doesnt need you to control her?   

[newjason]

Wow
this thead is a trip.

So we must all be ranked by our attractiveness , our weight, and our gender. 
Otherwise, punt and move to a place where they will believe this bullshit.

wow

[Faux Pas]

Wow
this thead is a trip.

So we must all be ranked by our attractiveness , our weight, and our gender. 
Otherwise, punt and move to a place where they will believe this bullshit.

wow

Only for the superficial and vain among us 

[IAmZon]

Wow this thead is a trip. So we must all be ranked by our attractiveness , our weight, and our gender. 
Otherwise, punt and move to a place where they will believe this bullshit. wow

Only for the superficial and vain among us

Support Group WARNING ... Kumbaya   Anything that offends the fairy tale pursuits is scorned.  Ah, it would be nice to live in the Victorian era, right boys.

Point is everything I said about the culture and environment is DEAD ON. The basic points I posted up thread are 100% facutal - not my creation! And, they most likely will have some bearing on a relationship that most of you have had, or will  have, or want to have.  To think anything else is foolish.

RWD is full of micro details about finding, dating, courting, governmental details (and all the lies and traps therein) ... but, all of that drives to one simple question after all the language, and culture, and league gaps and age gaps and so on and so on: Will both people be happy with the relationship they have entered into over time in a new environment and culture?  For most the answer is, and will be NO.  For others the answer is, and will be, yes. 

Bien Suerte ...

[Faux Pas]

Point is everything I said about the culture and environment is DEAD ON. The basic points I posted up thread are 100% facutal - not my creation! And, they most likely will have some bearing on a relationship that most of you have had, or will  have, or want to have.  To think anything else is foolish.

Said the fool 

[IAmZon]

Said the fool

I have a CRAZY idea! Instead of calling me a fool (or many variations thereof), or cozying up to GrandpaBob (your willingness to accept and promote, I simply do not understand), or simply saying everything is possible for everybody - "just keep your eyes closed" ... why don't you express yourself factually.  Are the following observations not accurate, and do they not come into play in international dating / marriage?

( I am seriously wondering if you are capable of a substantive answer on the concept, without referencing me in any way, shape of form )

Factually, do you agree or disagree with any part of the below?

You can state it several ways:

- Men have a higher social value in more traditional societies (places where masculine characteristics still add to life - physical security and "bringing home the bacon")

- Men have a lower social value in societies that have become "gender neutral". (physical security is institutionalized.  Women and feminine traits are tending to trump masculine traits in higher education and the modern work place)

- Women (probably best to say attractive women) have a lower social value in places like Colombia / FSU because  (a) diet, exercise, willingness to dress sexy ... make beauty less rare  (b) less in control of business, justice, police - the institutions of power

- Women have a higher social value in the USA, UK, Norway (a) fat, less willing/motivated to dress attractively  b) very equal in the workplace and leadership)

[Faux Pas]

I have a CRAZY idea! Instead of calling me a fool (or many variations thereof), or cozying up to GrandpaBob (your willingness to accept and promote, I simply do not understand), or simply saying everything is possible for everybody - "just keep your eyes closed" ... why don't you express yourself factually.  Are the following observations not accurate, and do they not come into play in international dating / marriage?

( I am seriously wondering if you are capable of a substantive answer on the concept, without referencing me in any way, shape of form )

Factually, do you agree or disagree with any part of the below?

You can state it several ways:

- Men have a higher social value in more traditional societies (places where masculine characteristics still add to life - physical security and "bringing home the bacon")

- Men have a lower social value in societies that have become "gender neutral". (physical security is institutionalized.  Women and feminine traits are tending to trump masculine traits in higher education and the modern work place)

- Women (probably best to say attractive women) have a lower social value in places like Colombia / FSU because  (a) diet, exercise, willingness to dress sexy ... make beauty less rare  (b) less in control of business, justice, police - the institutions of power

- Women have a higher social value in the USA, UK, Norway (a) fat, less willing/motivated to dress attractively  b) very equal in the workplace and leadership)

*YAWN* You are sounding like a broken record riv. Have you anything new? Anything at all?

[Faux Pas]

BTW, you ARE Grand Pa riv

[Gylden]

Actually Rivarco, IMO women and men have traditionally had their own place in society. To say one is higher than another seems to be where we part ways. Regardless if a woman chooses to be a housewife/mother or a lawyer/doctor I can't see the difference in a level of importance to society.
I really believe women can be valued for who they really are, without being a threat to men. I don't feel threated anyway.
 
What criteria are you using to determine social value?
 
 

[Faux Pas]

riv, you can dress it up anyway you like, polish, spin, make up excuses with society until the cows come home but, it doesn't cover up the core of your problem. The only reason you can't date the 20-30 hard body beautiful AW is because, they don't want to date you. If they did, they would (without paying them, that is  ). Is that not "factual"?

[IAmZon]

riv, you can dress it up anyway you like, polish, spin, make up excuses with society until the cows come home but, it doesn't cover up the core of your problem. The only reason you can't date the 20-30 hard body beautiful AW is because, they don't want to date you. If they did, they would (without paying them, that is  ). Is that not "factual"?

Actually Rivarco, IMO women and men have traditionally had their own place in society. To say one is higher than another seems to be where we part ways.

1, Gylden, I am not commenting on the comparative value between man and women

2, Everybody else, I did not make this $hit up.  The fact that most of you want to NOT see it, or call me names for simply making MY OBSERVATIONS is, well SUSPICIOUS - and does not change reality.  If I can not get one active member here to chime in with a sober thought of realism, perhaps I should reference some intellectual weakling, and social low life - The Atlantic Monthly!
Increasingly, I see this place as a homogeneous, isolated little world.

The End of MenEarlier this year, women became the majority of the workforce for the first time in U.S. history. Most managers are now women too. And for every two men who get a college degree this year, three women will do the same. For years, women’s progress has been cast as a struggle for equality. But what if equality isn’t the end point? What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? A report on the unprecedented role reversal now under way— and its vast cultural consequences

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

PS - And, you don't think this stuff is relevant to your current, future marital plans?  WHAT A JOKE! 

[IAmZon]

BTW, you ARE Grand Pa riv

your fixation on me has reached the level of "spooky".   So, I am a Grand father?  You must know something that I do not ...

[BC]

Riv,

The article you referenced supports FP's statement 100%

riv, you can dress it up anyway you like, polish, spin, make up excuses with society until the cows come home but, it doesn't cover up the core of your problem. The only reason you can't date the 20-30 hard body beautiful AW is because, they don't want to date you. If they did, they would (without paying them, that is  ). Is that not "factual"?

[Faux Pas]

your fixation on me has reached the level of "spooky".   So, I am a Grand father?  You must know something that I do not ...

You are old enough to be. Don't be confusing my need to call out bullshit when I see it as a fixation on you. Just more of your vanity 

[BC]

Riv,

how old are you btw?.....   I'm now 52 and yes, a grandpa.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Riv, maybe you can explain more about what you perceive as social value.  I don't think I am understanding your meaning. 

For example, more women becoming managers may have something to do with more women going to college now. 

It almost reads like you would rather women be more dependent on men like they are in several 3rd world countries.  I also don't understand why you are trying to pass off your perceptions of reality as fact based.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You are old enough to be. Don't be confusing my need to call out bullshit when I see it as a fixation on you. Just more of your vanity 

FP, yes, you are spooky but it seems to be ok for a guy to repeatedly ask other guys if they are gay.   

[LAman]

Is it  possible.......................... for a single man to have a mid-life crisis??
 
Ones thoughts/observations(even suspicions) are perceptions on life as it is(in their eyes).....they are not facts per se.
There is only one sure thing.........you can either agree or disagree.....

[erikmagenta]

Riv, maybe you can explain more about what you perceive as social value.  I don't think I am understanding your meaning. 

For example, more women becoming managers may have something to do with more women going to college now. 

It almost reads like you would rather women be more dependent on men like they are in several 3rd world countries.  I also don't understand why you are trying to pass off your perceptions of reality as fact based.

3rd world countries have higher birth rates, probably because of more clearly defined male and female roles.  Are you, like "elite" "feminists", critisizing women in the USA who willingly choose to stay home and be traditional mothers and wives??  Germany and Russia have declining birthrates.  These countries will not be able to pay for pensions and benefits of future retired generations, if they continue to have declining birthrates.  In the case of Russia it could become extremely dangerous as they have 1 Billion hungry Chinese people at their South East border.

This is not to suggest that a woman cannot be fulfilled and work at a career of her choice after raising the children to a certain age where they can go out on their own.  There is something very positive to say about traditional roles, and you should not discount those roles without acknowledging the benefits--both to the immediate family, and to society as a whole.

[Gylden]

Men who feel threatened by women will place a different value on women than men who are not threatened by women.
Men who do not have daughters might have problems to understand women's importance in society and their freedom for their own pursuit of happiness.
This doesn't mean women want to replace or undervalue men either.
Let us as men make ourselves worthy of high values and truly respect and value our women for who they are as individuals and not stereotypes.

[LiveFromUkraine]

3rd world countries have higher birth rates, probably because of more clearly defined male and female roles.  Are you, like "elite" "feminists", critisizing women in the USA who willingly choose to stay home and be traditional mothers and wives??  Germany and Russia have declining birthrates.  These countries will not be able to pay for pensions and benefits of future retired generations, if they continue to have declining birthrates.  In the case of Russia it could become extremely dangerous as they have 1 Billion hungry Chinese people at their South East border.

This is not to suggest that a woman cannot be fulfilled and work at a career of her choice after raising the children to a certain age where they can go out on their own.  There is something very positive to say about traditional roles, and you should not discount those roles without acknowledging the benefits--both to the immediate family, and to society as a whole.

Strange, you ask me if I criticize women for staying at home based on my post?  I would be interested in understanding how you came to that question.  Maybe it will provide some insight into the way you view things.

My mother stayed home.  I don't know how you came up with me implying it is a bad thing.  I just said women have more choices and that is a good thing.  They don't have to settle for staying at home being dependent on a man like in the past. 

Would you prefer a woman marrying and staying with you because of dependency?

Germany and Russia have declining birthrates.

You can add Japan to that list.  I believe Japan is more traditional.  The costs of raising a child has increased tremendously throughout the years in many first world countries.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-cost-of-raising-kids-in-two-charts/2012/06/18/gJQA35ENlV_blog.html


That also means that two incomes are required for many families.

[alyosha]

That won't be likely.

If it's one thing I've learned is that finding a wife, particularly a foreign one, is that it's a huge commitment that can't be done half-assed.  A trip to the FSU from America requires significant planning and the use of a limited amount of vacation time.  An AM who is dating at home will never end up on the plane to the FSU because he'll always be wondering how is current dating prospect will turn out and end up putting the trip on hold repeatedly.  In which case, it isn't fair to the FSUW he would be corresponding with and it would be better that he not even start the endeavor.

Yes, it's more expensive and time consuming, but if the venue is much more enjoyable, then the value is priceless.

I was dreaming of a trip and of enjoying site seeing even if I didn’t meet anyone. :-)
But then the memory came back of the one or two times our KGB (quaintly known as the FBI) and their KGB (now known as the FSB) colluded in attempting to entrap and arrest me.
So there is a real chance I would be whisked off to an Eastern European prison the minute I got off the plane.
I’m an American dissident and we get entrapped by the KG…I mean, the FBI all the time. 
So I must remain strong and sacrifice myself for Mother Rodi… I mean Mother Columbia.

:-(