Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[Gator]

Maybe what ails is too many checks and balances - so many that nothing real can get done.

It has been that way for 230 years.  If what you say is true, just imagine where we would be if we had not adopted our form of democracy.
 
Seriously, having an opposing Congress and President should assure that just the essential is enacted.  Not always the case, however.  A united Congress and President have given us Obamacare and an ineffecttive yet costly stimulus plan.
 

Putin obviously has somewhat of an edge when it comes to getting things done - maybe not so bad after all.

Is not Russian government comparable with European democracies?

[Gator]

I would put forward first the Baby Boomers who have been the principal force over the past 50 years just by their size.  They voted for this and even to this date, regardless of party you will hear no politician discuss taking away Medicare or SS from a Baby Boomer.  All proposals are for changes to Gen X or younger.

Baby Boomers did much in the 60s and 70s in the name of feel good social change to help the unfortunate and those who were falling through the cracks in the floor.  We did too much obviously or assumed too rosy projections.
 
Is this now at the top of the list for what the Boomers have done wrong?  I always thought new and vicious STDs formed the top of the list.

[Gator]

The next chapter in this horror book should be Obama's Post-Labor Day big speech about jobs and the economy.  He is waiting a few weeks to release something that was needed two years ago.   Obama was criticized for  waiting to make his speech, so his staff have released some parts of his proposal.
 
This credible author discusses Obama's proposal  in an intelligent apolitical manner. 
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/19/obama-economic-strategy-targets-jobs-growth-but-aims-at-2012-reelection.html?om_rid=Dy1Gxm&om_mid=_BOTl5RB8cz$k-L
 
 

[Gator]

I think we in a 20 years perspective will see a shift of world leadership (at least financially) from the Us to the far east.
In my opinion what we see now is the death struggles of the Us as a super power. The country can not longer finance this status on it own and the rest of the world is not longer willing to finance it by very unsecure loans, since the shape of the Us economy is so bad.

Yes it will be a brave new world and all must adapt.  However, the change in the US is not akin to the collapse of the USSR.  I assert that US global power simply transforms and cojoins into something LARGER.  The key is to not look internally (i. e., EU) but globally. Basically, business, not government will make it happen, and "Social Land" countries will decline.   Will EU trend more towards Social Land? 
 
This is one analysis of exactly that.   
 
Superfusion: How China and America Became One Economy and Why the World's Prosperity Depends on It
 
There are other more popular books on the subject (The World is Flat). 
 
 
 
 
 

[BC]

It has been that way for 230 years.  If what you say is true, just imagine where we would be if we had not adopted our form of democracy.
 
Seriously, having an opposing Congress and President should assure that just the essential is enacted.  Not always the case, however.  A united Congress and President have given us Obamacare and an ineffecttive yet costly stimulus plan.
 
 
Is not Russian government comparable with European democracies?

Gator,

Was it not the same when GW was first elected.. then turned into:

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-10-30/politics/bush.dems_1_schip-watch-bush-health-insurance?_s=PM:POLITICS

"Congress is not getting its work done," Bush said, flanked by members of the Republican House leadership. "The House of Representatives has wasted valuable time on a constant stream of investigations, and the Senate has wasted valuable time on an endless series of failed votes to pull our troops out of Iraq." criticized Congress for not being able to send "a single appropriations bill" to him. "They haven't seen a bill they could not solve without shoving a tax hike into it," he said.

So it doesn't really matter what president resides - there will be periods of deadlock and thus ineffectiveness.  I guess that ends up being 'essentials'.

Regarding healthcare, or Obamacare, I saw a CBO document showing the impact of the Health Act with and without the bush tax cuts expiring.  Of course a wildly different picture in the end.  Currently the CBO is getting somewhat blasted on blogs with the figures without expiration of Bush's tax cuts.  IIRC Obama extended the cuts due to the financial situation.  Haven't a clue as to when, but that's not important.  Bush's tax cut was a temporary measure and not permanent or?  It seems many believe it's a given.

Bush got his way and was even accommodated by Obama with another extension.. so why complain when time is up?  Bush surely wanted permanent tax cuts but had to compromise as Obama did with healthcare.  Oh well, that's the way things work.

As to Russia, I really don't know enough about RU Government, Constitution, workings to do a good comparison.  Maybe a project for the future.  I do see Putin has overwhelming support both within government and the public.  As long as that stands, there should be little 'bitchin' about their system whatever it is or how they achieve their goals.

[GQBlues]

Going back to personality and appearances. Is he qualified? You think a person who proposes to eliminate safety nets, at a time where they are most needed, that could result in an uprising (a la London) is qualified to lead the nation?

The UK rioters are immigrants coming from dysfunctional countries void of social order. The majority of those folks had no other reason being there doing what they did other than to be opportunistic criminals.
 
There is NOT a situation that more closely highlight the eery similarities in appearance between ideology and idiocy than this.
 
Further, there is no difference in this than what happened in France, and certainly than what happened in Los Angeles. Do not fail to note the very same type of social disorder (riot) took place in the social utopia of Vancouver, Canada. It's the same usual dysfunctional suspects.

It is also interesting to point out, The UK, France, California and Vancouver are huge proponents of socio-economic programs.

Reform is NOT elimination. It worked for Clinton and it worked for Pete Wilson.
 
http://www.economist.com/node/150867
 
- We must ensure that Americans who work hard, pay taxes and live peacefully are served by government, not bankrupted by programs that make no sense, or victimized by a criminal justice system that fails to protect them.
 
- We must stop giving special privileges to some Americans based solely on race and gender, at the expense of equal opportunity for all other Americans.
 
- We need to break the devastating cycle of welfare dependency, which puts an unreasonable burden on taxpayers while cheating recipients of the freedom to grow as individuals.

[Maxx2]

As for Ron Paul, Maxx presented that to me last election. I admit knowing too little about him.
 

This Jon Stewart clip is really funny and he covers Ron Paul being treated like the "13th floor of a hotel" by the media


http://runronpaul.com/mainstream-media/jon-stewart-scolds-media-for-ignoring-rep-ron-paul-‘i-mean-fck-that-guy-right’/

[GQBlues]

The UK rioters are immigrants coming from dysfunctional countries void of social order. The majority of those folks had no other reason being there doing what they did other than to be opportunistic criminals.
 
There is NOT a situation that more closely highlight the eery similarities in appearance between ideology and idiocy than this.
 
Further, there is no difference in this than what happened in France, and certainly than what happened in Los Angeles. Do not fail to note the very same type of social disorder (riot) took place in the social utopia of Vancouver, Canada. It's the same usual dysfunctional suspects.

It is also interesting to point out, The UK, France, California and Vancouver are huge proponents of socio-economic programs....

BTW Muzh, this is not only happening (happened) on those places I mentioned, it is also happening right now on another democratic social haven like Germany.
 
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/17/revolution-spreads-germany-hundreds-fat-cats-cars-burned-country-60491/

[Gator]

So it doesn't really matter what president resides - there will be periods of deadlock and thus ineffectiveness.

 
Conservatives relish deadlock (no new social programs).  Nevertheless, many Presidents have walked across the aisle and got bipartisan support.   You assert that Obama compromised with healthcare?    Not one Republican voted for Obamacare, certainly not an indicator of bipartisan compromise. 
 

Bush got his way and was even accommodated by Obama with another extension.. so why complain when time is up?  Bush surely wanted permanent tax cuts but had to compromise as Obama did with healthcare.  Oh well, that's the way things work.

Still talking about taxes?  Even though the government needs more revenues, here are two fundamental points:
 
1.  Most people do not have confidence that the government will deploy additional tax revenue correctly (the additional tax revenue from the wealthy would bypass helping the economy for  the middle class and instead support the low income class.
 
 2.  Thus, deliberation about additional taxes should be combined with deliberation about different spending cuts - a comprehensive solution.  Most democrats start such deliberations with "tax the rich" at the top of their list with not much else on the list.
 
Please notice that I refrained from the two standard arguments:   "supply side economics" and "the wealthy already pay a vast majority of tax revenue."  There will be much to discuss about taxes later in the year.
 
Personally, I do believe we should give up the Bush tax cuts if real measures are taken to cut spending.
 

As to Russia, I really don't know enough about RU Government, Constitution, workings to do a good comparison.  Maybe a project for the future.  I do see Putin has overwhelming support both within government and the public.  As long as that stands, there should be little 'bitchin' about their system whatever it is or how they achieve their goals.

As per this thread's OP, Putin can always blame America when the economy sours, even if Europe has contributed to the problem, perhaps moreso than the remaining aftermath of the recession.

[GQBlues]

...1.  Most people do not have confidence that the government will deploy additional tax revenue correctly (the additional tax revenue from the wealthy would bypass helping the economy for  the middle class and instead support the low income class.

"Our finances will never be brought into order until Congress is compelled to do so"

There will be much to discuss about taxes later in the year.

"The producer has the right to the products of his own labor. The last 40 years have seen a gigantic expansion of political power over economic affairs by the federal government. This change is linked by many scholars to the passage of the income tax law in 1913. This law has revolutionized the taxing system in two ways.
 
1. It gave the government new powers over the economic status of the individual. This change has curtailed the ability of the individual to achieve economic independence.
 
2. The part of his production taken from the producer cumulatively increases the power of the federal government proportionately with the increase in its income. This power is not created; it is simply taken away from the people by those in government."

 

Personally, I do believe we should give up the Bush tax cuts if real measures are taken to cut spending.

I do, too. Unfortunately, I do not see this happening under this current administration. Not especially after what I witnessed the past 2 years.

[Muzh]

The UK rioters are immigrants coming from dysfunctional countries void of social order. The majority of those folks had no other reason being there doing what they did other than to be opportunistic criminals.
 

Is that right? I know a lot of Britons that will disagree with you.


Let's see: immigrants = opportunistic criminals.


No sense talking here.

[SFandEE]

"The producer has the right to the products of his own labor.

Is this a post 1863 US concept.


Early 1900 child labor laws a blaspheme on the free market for you?


A lot of American trade policy has been facilitating the importation of communism and despotism through the exploitation of the earth and people in more centrally controlled nations (China, Saudi Arabia, Libya).  I am sure those pesky policies on clean air, water, and earth are an impingement on the titled and entitled to their rights as owners.


I often wonder what the point of discussing politics with people who are waiting for the world to end any day now.  Seems like the end of earth believers just aren't on the same page as Americans who want to participate in a long-term earth and culture strategy.  Not just dominion and then "The Rapture" happens and everybody good gets to go somewhere really nice forever.  Is it any wonder that people who believe the world will end any day now espouse ideas that exploit the earth and challenge science with belief and faith.

[GQBlues]

Is that right? I know a lot of Britons that will disagree with you.

LOL, I bet I know a heck of a lot more that will...including this woman.
 
http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH
 

Let's see: immigrants = opportunistic criminals.

Based largely on who participated in the rioting, it would appear to be so, Muzh. Unless you conveniently skipped over that fact. Did you hear the single biggest looted shop was Foot Locker? It's got to be the shoes, man. It's got to be the shoes.
 
I'm a skin-colored immigrant and naturalized citizen to USA. Poor when I arrived. Never once in my life did I feel deprived and discrimnated by this society. Never once did I took advantage and milked this country's social program. Never will I have reasons to feel and resort to looting as symbolic of my social status and sensibilities upon this society. Luckily, I am not alone. I am but a one in millions.
 
Being poor DOES NOT give anyone a classical free pass for criminal behavior.

No sense talking here.

Why spare us a punchline from the Chosen One.

[GQBlues]

Is this a post 1863 US concept.

No. That was a notable quote from Howard Buffet. Warren's Dad. 

A lot of American trade policy has been facilitating the importation of communism and despotism through the exploitation of the earth and people in more centrally controlled nations (China, Saudi Arabia, Libya).  I am sure those pesky policies on clean air, water, and earth are an impingement on the titled and entitled to their rights as owners.


I often wonder what the point of discussing politics with people who are waiting for the world to end any day now.  Seems like the end of earth believers just aren't on the same page as Americans who want to participate in a long-term earth and culture strategy.  Not just dominion and then "The Rapture" happens and everybody good gets to go somewhere really nice forever.  Is it any wonder that people who believe the world will end any day now espouse ideas that exploit the earth and challenge science with belief and faith.

Is this from the journal, A Day in the Life of Al Gore?
 
Make what you want of whatever you feel about the American/Global commerce, past and present / right or wrong and whether you'd like to admit or not, you're bathing deep within the comfort it provided you in your lifetime.
 
But, the exit door is provided for you and it's to your right and always open..
 
You want to see exploitation? Watch Darwin's Nightmare.

[Muzh]

Why spare us a punchline from the Chosen One.

Please, I would never dream of usurping the throne. I'll bow my head your excellency.

[Maxx2]

Bet you guys didn't know this stuff.

The 2011 Ames Straw Poll just took place on August 13th with Michele Bachmann finishing first place with 4,823 votes and Ron Paul coming in second with 4,671 votes, only 152 votes behind Bachmann.
 
To attend the Ames Straw Poll and have the opportunity to vote in the poll, attendees were required to purchase a ticket priced at $30. Bachmann gave her supporters 6,000 free tickets at a cost to her campaign of $180,000. Only 80% of the people she gave free tickets to actually voted for her and that's assuming none of the people who bought tickets voted for her. Bachmann didn't just pay for the entrance of 6,000 people who she thought supported her, but she paid a small fortune to have Grammy Award winning country singer Randy Travis perform in a special air-conditioned tent. Bachmann even paid to transport forty bus loads of Randy Travis fans to the event, who were required to register at the Bachmann table and vote before seeing the entertainment.
 
With Bachmann spending a total of nearly $1 million on this event, she should have won the straw poll in a blow out. Click on the link below to see a shocking video we just posted to the NIA blog of the never ending line of Bachmann "supporters" registering at her table so that they could vote without paying the $30 fee. NIA believes that many of these people pretended to support her in order to get free tickets, but actually voted for Ron Paul: http://inflation.us/blog/2011/08/crazy-video-of-bachmann-ames-straw-poll-line/[/u][/size][/font][/color]
[/size]
[/size]The morning after Bachmann's phony victory, she appeared on five different nationwide talk shows. Ron Paul wasn't allowed to appear on any, with both 'Meet the Press' and 'Fox News Sunday' canceling interviews they had scheduled with him. Meet the Press spent the morning talking about Bachmann's win and Tim Pawlenty dropping out of the race after finishing third with less than half of the votes of Bachmann and Ron Paul. They barely mentioned Ron Paul even when he finished in a statistical dead heat with Bachmann.
[/size]
[/size]Even more frustrating and disturbing, the Wall Street Journal published a long article Sunday morning about the race and it focused almost entirely on Bachmann's straw poll win and Rick Perry's entry into the race. The article only had one sentence about Ron Paul that read, “Libertarian Ron Paul, who has no chance to win the nomination, finished a close second.” On Monday morning, Ron Paul was scheduled to appear on NBC’s 'Today' show, but that interview was canceled as well with an NBC official saying it was due to "logistics and timing reasons with the news in Indiana and Somalia."

[Gylden]

Here is some news that should lift the markets!!   
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/19/pf/credit_card_issuance/index.htm?iid=HP_LN
 
 

[Handycam72]

Now I'm not a big follower of US politics, from what I have seen of Ron Paul he seems like someone who talks sense. So why are the media trying to shut him out, any ideas?

[Darth_Budda]

His views on the war on drugs,
Aka War on Americans.
He wants to legalize drugs and let health care professionals treat drug addiction as a medical problem.

As well as some of his economic ideas,, Like ending the national reserve, are considered radical.

[Gylden]

Can you hear the "jungle drums"?
Do I hear a hint of QE3 this week?

[Faux Pas]

Now I'm not a big follower of US politics, from what I have seen of Ron Paul he seems like someone who talks sense. So why are the media trying to shut him out, any ideas?

Because he is the Libertarian party he is discounted by the mainstream media. To get that you have to understand the mass mainstream media isn't about what may or may not make sense, it's ratings and viewership. The majority of Americans declare themselves democrat or republican and thus that is where the media will focus.


That said, Paul makes a hellava lot of sense on many fronts. He is generally, fiscally conservative, smaller government and personal responsibility. His view on allowing Iran to obtain nukes has been the subject of much of his latest ridicule although, he may very well have a point. I disagree with him there.

[Maxx2]

Here is some news that should lift the markets!!   
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/19/pf/credit_card_issuance/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Probably they are thinking "Get what I need now and deal with it in the coming bankruptcy which is going to happen regardless of what I do." I suspect the politicians and big bankers are thinking the same.

[Maxx2]

Because he is the Libertarian party he is discounted by the mainstream media. To get that you have to understand the mass mainstream media isn't about what may or may not make sense, it's ratings and viewership. The majority of Americans declare themselves democrat or republican and thus that is where the media will focus.


That said, Paul makes a hellava lot of sense on many fronts. He is generally, fiscally conservative, smaller government and personal responsibility. His view on allowing Iran to obtain nukes has been the subject of much of his latest ridicule although, he may very well have a point. I disagree with him there.

People will strain for gnats with Ron Paul and swallow camels with Perry, Romney and Bachman. People have such a need to stay within what is considered acceptable opinion for the mainstream public. You see that a lot even around here which is strange considering that considering marrying a foreign woman is considered by the mainstream as a loser thing to do.

[Faux Pas]

People will strain for gnats with Ron Paul and swallow camels with Perry, Romney and Bachman. People have such a need to stay within what is considered acceptable opinion for the mainstream public. You see that a lot even around here which is strange considering that considering marrying a foreign woman is considered by the mainstream as a loser thing to do.

Its a bit off topic but, I don't get that marrying a RW is the loser thing to do. At least not to my face. People that know me and my wife are very accepting. Those are the only ones permitted to voice an opinion that matters.


Back to Ron Paul, you are correct there Max. The people are sheep and programmed to accept what is given them and save them from thought

[Maxx2]

Its a bit off topic but, I don't get that marrying a RW is the loser thing to do.

I do not believe it is either. I have as a guy known as formally married to a RW by others outside the RWD world have been given the impression it is a very naive and stupid thing to marry a foreign woman. So I play along and make my supporting comments that many men in this are naive and sometimes stupid. People especially women then open up and tell me some rather cutting things of what they think of the whole process. This then leads me to correcting their misconceptions. I will tell them I know of many AM/RW marriages that last for years well beyond the wives getting their green card. That many RW are frugal and not gold diggers at all. That the men are not the stereotypes the media presents them as. A lot of good guys. The reaction ranges from delight to hear this usually from the men to a icy doubt usually from the women. That chilly silence you get when you are telling someone something they would rather not hear.


Back to RP. I got this tonight from RunRonRun



[font='times new-roman'][/font]

[font='times new-roman']
We thought it was bad when the media tried to ignore us to keep our message under wraps.  But it just got worse.

Earlier this evening, a cyberattack was launched on our website – shutting us down and robbing us of the last few hours of our money bomb.

Boy, the establishment is more desperate than I thought. They don't even want our message to get out ON OUR OWN WEBSITE now!

We will not be silenced, and our money bomb will not be deterred.[/font][/size]


Before the attack, we were VERY close to our $1.5 million goal - now we're at $1.49 million and counting.

We’re still working on restoring full functionality to the online store, but the rest of our website is back up and running.[/font][/font]