Confused?

[GQBlues]

...I understand you have an opinion, but to go around shouting facts and giving unwarranted advice without a shred of evidence to back up your claims is ignorant.

It isn't a *claim*. It is borne out of personal experiences and general knowledge sprung from THAT experience.  What IS ignorant to me is coming to a message board asking AND soliciting *opinions* from people of relative experience and then when given, ask for their *scientific citations*.
 

FSUW living here? Here we go again. Lets just say that they are American as far as I am concerned- and I am not bothering with such women. Last time I checked most men on this site were looking for women overseas- not in their own neighborhood. So thanks, but no thanks. Its certainly not difficult to understand, not for someone as educated as myself, thank you. That is a moot and completely different point.

You want to meet, and date, FSUWs who are proficient in English, educated, and one open for interracial dating...well, logic tells me your chances are greater HERE in the US. Here's a nice scientific summation for you. RWs in the MOB is considered atypical. Given that fact, you would have to sift through an even greater degree to find one who will NOT only meet your criteria, but likely one who will be willing to marry you. You likely will have a good chance BUT your CHANCES are greater with those already HERE. Not to mention having to go through the rigors of travelling and immigration.
 
So, your odds ARE much better with FSUWs already living here in STRICT consideration you are what you say your are. Why? Because IN GENERAL, these FSUWs understand they now have choices which they did not before coming here. Trust me, they will and do.
 
As for AWs...since your 1st post, I know the problem lies closer to home, IMO. But nothing stops you from importing one who doesn't know any better. But sooner or later she will become *AW* whether you like it or not.

[BC]

I have a lot of Russian friends here in the US, both male and female, but I am not attracted to them in an intimate way- which is why I am looking elsewhere.

I was one of the few, or maybe many that were simply sideswiped into this venture, not even looking for a RW.

It would however be interesting to see what your 'shopping list' looks like.

Many here have advised newbies to put together a list of requirements and stick by that list.

Certainly not a requirement for a new member here, but it would be interesting, maybe even constructive, to describe a bit in detail what you are seeking.

[SurgeonInWater]

I was one of the few, or maybe many that were simply sideswiped into this venture, not even looking for a RW.

It would however be interesting to see what your 'shopping list' looks like.

Many here have advised newbies to put together a list of requirements and stick by that list.

Certainly not a requirement for a new member here, but it would be interesting, maybe even constructive, to describe a bit in detail what you are seeking.

Haha, well to be brief 

Within my age range of 24-32, single (never married, no kids), not a smoker or a drinker (never had either in my life), well educated (minimum of a bachelors, masters/PhD/MD preferred), independent, confident, funny, and willing to learn a new culture, as well as new behaviors/languages. English fluency would be a BIG bonus, but a good level of proficiency that can be improved is just fine. Should be fond of healthy pursuits, should be relatively athletic (not lazy) and as far as physical attributes: should be of a normal BMI (read: not anorexic or obese) easy on the eyes (read: should stand out without makeup or fake enhancements) and relatively tall (I'm well over 6 feet). I guess that's about it. Oh, and bad teeth are a big no-no

[BC]

My wife and I are also in the medical field; she's a pediatrician and I'm a toxicologist. We sort of speak a similar language which kind of helped us in our relationship. What really helped us was that we were able to talk to each other and understand EXACTLY what was said. That we understood what we were saying is another story.

Muzh,

Another good point..  In a realm of disparity you found a decent level of commonality to base a relationship upon.

Doc seems not to be in a great rush (I hope) and if so is a plus.  I can imagine that his field of work alone would provide an 'in' with many venues in FSU.  IIRC Dan's 'venue' was consulting work that placed him in FSU, jb's 'venue' was the oil business, my 'venue' was vacationing.  Each somehow met and married FSU women and remained so for many years. I am sure many many 'venues' exist that are outside mainstream MOB.

Many seem to be attracted more with youth, beauty, physique and sex rather than common interests and ideals. 

All can be had though, for the longer term, in the right combination.

[Misha]

This is what I can't say: no man will please all women. Some will like tall blondes, some won't. Some will like men with dark eyes, some won't. Sure, some men may find it harder: the ones who are less attractive, men who are not as thin, men who are darker skinned, etc... However, I know women happily married to very-dark-skinned men from Sub-Saharan Africa, women who married men from Japan, women who married pretty much men from every corner of the globe. Eventually, if you meet enough women, you will find one who will think you are wonderful. I don't see any real issues here of any sort.

[BC]

Haha, well to be brief 

Within my age range of 24-32, single (never married, no kids), not a smoker or a drinker (never had either in my life), well educated (minimum of a bachelors, masters/PhD/MD preferred), independent, confident, funny, and willing to learn a new culture, as well as new behaviors/languages. English fluency would be a BIG bonus, but a good level of proficiency that can be improved is just fine. Should be fond of healthy pursuits, should be relatively athletic (not lazy) and as far as physical attributes: should be of a normal BMI (read: not anorexic or obese) easy on the eyes (read: should stand out without makeup or fake enhancements) and relatively tall (I'm well over 6 feet). I guess that's about it. Oh, and bad teeth are a big no-no

I noted no hobbies or interests were mentioned..

As far as your initial requirements go they seem quite standard..

Interesting you place smoking and drinking habits at the top of the list. Quite a few have reported that women's profiles on MOB sites listing non smoker / drinker can be quite an illusion..

Education can be fine, but as far as transferability is concerned a hurdle.

Lazy.. FSUW are rarely lazy and keep slim figures.. OTOH they walk a lot and usually don't have cars...

Mentioning these just as examples to ponder.. others can maybe illuminate more.

[SurgeonInWater]

I noted no hobbies or interests were mentioned..

As far as your initial requirements go they seem quite standard..

Interesting you place smoking and drinking habits at the top of the list. Quite a few have reported that women's profiles on MOB sites listing non smoker / drinker can be quite an illusion..

Education can be fine, but as far as transferability is concerned a hurdle.

Lazy.. FSUW are rarely lazy and keep slim figures.. OTOH they walk a lot and usually don't have cars...

Mentioning these just as examples to ponder.. others can maybe illuminate more.

Well, I am really into physical pursuits..triathlons, yoga, skiing, and the like- but I doubt I'll be able to find a woman who lists "Ironman" as one of her hobbies  Apart from that, music (the piano), reading, gastronomy (I love French cooking), Cinema, travel, and learning about new cultures/new languages. Thats a good summary.

[BC]

Well, I am really into physical pursuits..triathlons, yoga, skiing, and the like- but I doubt I'll be able to find a woman who lists "Ironman" as one of her hobbies  Apart from that, music (the piano), reading, gastronomy (I love French cooking), Cinema, travel, and learning about new cultures/new languages. Thats a good summary.

That's a pretty good start.

Sochi might sound interesting for you as a start..  Lots going on there the next few years..  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sochi

Just missed this one... http://www.exponet.ru/exhibitions/by-id/medicso/medicso2011/index.en.html

I really suggest using standard MOB approaches as a last resort.. find ANY other 'in' that works in a neutral fashion.. and not be just 'another foreigner looking for a wife'.

[Darth_Budda]

As a white guy,,

I thought that quite a few RW on the marriage sites Looked rather dark.

I have never been their though.

[I/O]

well to be brief

Cripes, I'd hate to see the fuller version.

[pitbull]

EDIT: I am an Indian originally from India and look like this:

http://lifestyle.iloveindia.com/image-popup.php?news_id=2950&img=a

Hi Surgeon,
 
Is this your picture indeed? If yes, or if you look 90% close to this man, you'll have no problem in Russia. Also, as far as I know Russians and Indians are the same race.

[SANDRO43]

Also, as far as I know Russians and Indians are the same race.

Pitbull, I don't know what you mean by that but, as far as looks are concerned, IINM Indians may vary from light-skinned Kashmiri to very dark-skinned Tamil, latitude/altitude/weather being factors influencing their skin pigmentation.

To a lesser extent - our nation is 'shorter' -  this applies to Italians, too .

[SurgeonInWater]

Hi Surgeon,
 
Is this your picture indeed? If yes, or if you look 90% close to this man, you'll have no problem in Russia. Also, as far as I know Russians and Indians are the same race.

Yes, I look like this man exactly- a doppelgänger to be exact. Are you based in Russia?

[pitbull]

Yes, I look like this man exactly- a doppelgänger to be exact. Are you based in Russia?

Good for you:) I like your "shopping list" too, you'll do fine.

I'm originally from Belarus, and Belarusians are (on average) more tolerant than Russians, but close enough. I'm based in the US now. I believe of the 4 recognized major races (White, Black, Asian, Australoid), Indians would be considred white, no? Anyway, with looks like these, you won't be perceived as a person of different race in FSU.

Personally, I would recommend Elenasmodels, worked for me.

[Darth_Budda]

The ruling class of India was of Iranian decent, in some Pre-colonial states I believe.

So this explains some of the color differences Also,,,

[SurgeonInWater]

Good for you:) I like your "shopping list" too, you'll do fine.

I'm originally from Belarus, and Belarusians are (on average) more tolerant than Russians, but close enough. I'm based in the US now. I believe of the 4 recognized major races (White, Black, Asian, Australoid), Indians would be considred white, no? Anyway, with looks like these, you won't be perceived as a person of different race in FSU.

Personally, I would recommend Elenasmodels, worked for me.

Its an interesting question, and has many answers. I cannot say for sure, but yes, Indians, specifically North Indians, belong to the Caucasoid race- note that this is not the standard interpretation of it (Indians certainly aren't "White" in the traditional sense of the word) but the scientific interpretation. Even the National Library of Medicine has now decided to start using the moniker "European" in place of the far more general and largely inaccurate "Caucasian" when it comes to classifying race (which is more of a political construct if anything- thats the geneticist in me, haha)

As far as why some Indians are fair and others brown and others are dark, I dont want to get into that. But there truly is huge diversity in India. For instance, take a look at some popular people (celebrities in India):

A:
http://www.images.behindwoods.com/photo-galleries-q1-09/hindi-photo-gallery/celina-jaitley/celina-jaitley-01.jpg



B:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vbsGuZi7Kyc/SKpyLj3ItpI/AAAAAAAAEK8/OWOk5kOBHD0/s400/bipasha_basu_01_300x356.jpg



C:
http://www.weloveaish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/0001.jpg



D:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QPNQOkm4OUo/Tgtij_Q1C_I/AAAAAAAAGNE/MTmjeGO7yyE/s1600/Aditya+Narayan.jpg



E:
http://www.bollywood.ac/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/payalrohatgi21.jpg


F:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iHt5iQ3TUFA/TVGD-ysuypI/AAAAAAAAb4c/wFeJTwKpORc/s1600/sheetal.jpg


G:
http://www.chakpak.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Kajol.jpg

Thats a pretty nice sampling but I could go on and on. They are all completely Indian.

[Boethius]

Surgeon, are you from India or American?  Which do you consider your "culture"?
 

[Darth_Budda]

Right,,

Could Just Say your American? Leave it at that...
It should not matter anyways,,, If she likes you photo? Right

[SurgeonInWater]

Surgeon, are you from India or American?  Which do you consider your "culture"?

Well its a mix of the two- but I know just as much about American culture as any other American, being born and brought up here, and much less about Indian culture being far away from India. Also, my parents came to the US as young schoolchildren, so they were also quite integrated into the American culture. I do not have any traditions or customs (nor do most hindus) that would be considered a barrier, if thats what you are getting at. Religion is a non-issue.

[Boethius]

No, I wasn't getting at barriers.  I was thinking more along the lines of, if you are Indian "culturally", why not search first and foremost for somone who shares your culture?  Is Indian culture important to you?  I suspect if your parents were raised in the US, you're truly, culturally American, so it's not a big issue.
 
The photos you posted, though granted, of actresses and therefore, not the norm, were of stunning women, and women who would be more open to an Indo-American than a "white" American.  So, I was trying to understand why you would not look for an Indian woman.  I think mixing cultures presents challenges in any relationship, so what I was getting at is, why add a complication?
 
I'm not trying to suggest what you should or should not do, just asking.

[SurgeonInWater]

No, I wasn't getting at barriers.  I was thinking more along the lines of, if you are Indian "culturally", why not search first and foremost for somone who shares your culture?  Is Indian culture important to you?  I suspect if your parents were raised in the US, you're truly, culturally American, so it's not a big issue.
 
The photos you posted, though granted, of actresses and therefore, not the norm, were of stunning women, and women who would be more open to an Indo-American than a "white" American.  So, I was trying to understand why you would not look for an Indian woman.  I think mixing cultures presents challenges in any relationship, so what I was getting at is, why add a complication?
 
I'm not trying to suggest what you should or should not do, just asking.

Well, it could be argued that an American man marrying a FSU woman is just as much of a problem culturally as any other man marrying an FSU woman- because FSU and American culture is VERY different, and after all the FSU was an arch enemy of the USA until less than a half century ago- and Senator McCarthy's commie craze as well as the Nuke/bomb shelter panic, the Cuban missile crisis, has not been long forgotten either. In fact, it could be argued that if anything, Russia has had an amicable relationship with India for a far longer time than the USA has had- and this relationship (at least diplomatically) still exists today. I mean, Stalin's daughter was married to an Indian and this was back when Communism still existed. If anything, the times have only cooled down since then.

As for why I am looking elsewhere- there is no specific reason- I just want to meet people from different backgrounds and cultures- what is the harm in marrying someone from another culture? In my family, my uncle is married to a Japanese woman, another is married to a Hispanic woman, yet another to a White woman, and even my female cousins are married to men from different races. Love knows no boundaries- and as I said before, cultural problems are a non-issue. I am not excluding women from any race- I have been attracted to all races in the past- but merely exploring another option.

[Boethius]

Well, it could be argued that an American man marrying a FSU woman is just as much of a problem culturally as any other man marrying an FSU woman- because FSU and American culture is VERY different

You won't get an argument from me on that.

I mean, Stalin's daughter was married to an Indian and this was back when Communism still existed. If anything, the times have only cooled down since then.

No, she claimed she never married him.  Marriage to foreigners could be allowed or forbidden by Soviet authorities.  In any event, I'm not so certain a woman who was married three times previously, who defected assuming she'd never see her own children again, and who, reunited with her children, broke relations with them before her death, is someone I'd want to hold up as an example.

Anyway, I wish you luck.

[I/O]

it could be argued that an American man marrying a FSU woman is just as much of a problem culturally as any other man marrying an FSU woman-

Not "could be". It is and has been argued thus, IMO, rightfully so.
 

cultural problems are a non-issue.

What's for dinner, Borscht, Curry or McDonalds? It's that grass roots at times.

[mendeleyev]

Surgeon, just some random observations...

- As Misha and others have noted, Russia is big enough for you to easily find someone with whom you'll find compatibility.

- That doesn't mean however that you won't run into racism while searching because you well may. Many Russian families will ask, regardless of looks because for some families those questions are considered important. Other families won't care.

- Many Russians have either traveled to India or would like to travel to India in the future.

- Russia and India enjoy good relations today. Last December President Medvedev traveled to India for a diplomatic visit following visits to Moscow earlier in 2010 by Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Indian President Pratibha Patil's state visit to Russia in September 2009. Prime Minister Singh returned to Moscow this spring in April 2011 for continuing talks.

- Bilateral trade between Russia and India is well over 10 Billion (USD) annually.

- Russia and India are leading members of both the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and of BRICS (Brazil-Russia-India-China-South Africa) trade and development organization.

- This past December marked the 4^th annual Russia-India Forum on Trade and Investment, which was held in New Delhi.

- In years past many of the "soap operas" shown on Russian television were produced in Mexico and overdubbed with Russian voices. The trend today is to broadcast these kinds of programs that are produced in Bollywood with Indian actors and of course overdubbed with Russian voices. Russians recognize that the production quality standards of Bollywood are superior to those shows from Mexico.

- While I would disagree that most Russian immigrants in the major US population regions (NY, LA, Chicago, Sacramento, Phoenix, Boston) are 3rd and longer generations, I do however agree with another poster that some of these ladies are damaged goods in whatever form one wishes to make that definition.

- I had a delightful ride from JFK to Moscow in early August while sitting next to a young and very intelligent Russian medical student. She was completing her final year in an exchange program and so of course I asked her to compare her medical education in each country. For depth and quality she gave the USA high marks with no hesitation. I followed that up by asking where she wanted to practice? There was a moments pause before she admitted that while she loves her home, the opportunities for advancement in her specialty, and for her personal fulfillment, would be in America.

That all being said, you may encounter some unpleasant moments in the journey but there is every reason to assume that if you are sincere and genuine in your reasons for searching, you will find a wonderful lady.

[Ade]

Well, it could be argued that an American man marrying a FSU woman is just as much of a problem culturally as any other man marrying an FSU woman

Generally, I'd say people tend to underestimate the difficulties of cross cultural international relationships; I was going to list these but until you've actually lived them they wouldn't really sink in anyway. But perhaps you have an advantage over the average Yankee, being a recent product of several cultures to start with. Who knows?

But, like some others here, I really do not understand why you are looking to the FSU; you are relatively young, good looking, intelligent and, apparently, successful. I'm sure you could find attractive intelligent women in just about any country you choose. Even in the US, surely there are many women that would fit idea Mrs Surgeon? Or in Canada or Western Europe? Why complicate the whole process and add unnecessary potential problems by looking to the FSU?