A piece of good advice, anybody?

[ECOCKS]

Things to Ponder if you are serious and "real" with your wish:

We advise everyone to read the threads but few have patience. I'll try to summarize for you although reading 50-60 guys' experiences really brings home to you where our confidence and knowledge comes from, helping with the credibility.

Figure up how much you have spent with the agency. Fees for membership, translations, per letter correspondence charges, interpreters when/if you visit or do calls through them. Some will bill you for language lessons, gifts, pictures, apartments, cars, drivers, all sorts of services. Then realize there are thousands of guys who can't/won't get off their behinds and go over there. They are stuck with the pictures and reading the emails late at night while they dream or whatever else they do. This will help you understand how the agencies work this as a business. An experienced gal can make a comfortable living, have her Russian/Ukrainian BF, dress well and work from her home or agency computer for 30 or so hours a week.

Almost all of us advise you to plan your trip with a strategy which includes a back-up plan. Don't put all your eggs into one basket so to speak. That may be arranging to meet multiple women, spot an agency/dating site or just revert to a sightseeing vacation. Most guys can't go over more than once or twice a year so think hard about going to meet the "one and only girl".

Read and think through the 10 Commandments. Remember that no matter how pretty her pictures, how quaint her words or how poetic her sentiments, you have nothing real until you have met and begin building the relationship.

You can use the free sites if they work for you. Speaking for myself I found it better to use EM since all the women on that site have professed a willingness to marry a non-FSUM. You also seem to have better database options on a site designed for your particular situation rather than one which tries to be all things to all people. Understand, most of us who recommend EM don't say to consider it am agency. Better to view it simply as a dating database targeted towards WM looking for FSUW.

Don't buy into the fantasies. Women are women. The culture has some quirks but little chance of allowing you to fly over, date her a week, propose and get home to file that K1 visa.

We disagree on age gaps so the following is strictly MY opinion/belief. You can tell yourself that these poor little women will overlook your age and that you look/feel/act younger than you are but the reality is quite a bit different. More than a 15 year or so age gap makes you a joke, not a legend. The FSU laughs at those relationships just like we do. Follow a mismatch couple down a main street and watch the laughter and talking in their wake. Its sad.

BE YOURSELF! Always keep your radar on and think about whether you are presenting yourself honestly or not. If you're the type who would pay somebody $2,000 cash in advance so they can buy paint and ladders to come back tomorrow and paint your house, MAYBE you shouldn't attempt to date internationally.

[Chelseaboy]

Sophocles,
               I've been there,so i know what you're going through.You want to believe this girl is genuine and sincere,as do all the other guys on Anastasia.
Her letters and e-mails are really nice.When you talk on the phone,you like the sound of her voice.She looks soooo hot in her photo's.
You'd never get a wife like this at home,so you don't want to risk losing the opportunity of having such a gorgeous wife.
She tells you the age-gap means nothing,it's you as a person that is important,and she feels you're the "one".
You get to see her on webcam on the site,and she's soooo pleased to see you,because she's been waiting for you.She has a lovely smile, just for you,and when she blows those kisses to you,well how can this girl have anything but sincere feelings for you ?

You look in the mirror,and you say to yourself that you look pretty good,and yeah you could see the both of you together,you'd make a pretty good match.Why not ?
The problem is,all the guys on Anastasia,and there are thousands of them,all think the same as you.They all think they've got the edge over all the other guys "their girl" is communicating/meeting with.
Take a look at all the marriages through that site.You won't find many.Why is that do you think ?
Mila will tell you that 80 % of agency girls are dishonest,and she's dealing with them all the time.
Maybe your girl is one of the 20% honest ones,although from what you've told us i very much doubt it.
The question is "Do you feel lucky " ?

[Spoon]

The problem is,all the guys on Anastasia,and there are thousands of them,all think the same as you.They all think they've got the edge over all the other guys "their girl" is communicating/meeting with.

Most likely, after her days' work of talking sweetly, writing poetic love letters is done, she will be off home to her Russian boyfriend, without a second thought about you.

Whereas you will be lying in bed, alone, thinking of the lovely life you might have with this goddess on your arm.

Older guys bagging the young hot ones and it actually working is the exception rather than the rule, despite all the hype you'll read on AWeb.

[ML]

Older guys bagging the young hot ones and it actually working is the exception rather than the rule, despite all the hype you'll read on AWeb.

Depends a lot on what you define as 'older' and 'young'.  I would wager in the vast majority of all relationships in all countries, the man is older than the woman.

Also, there is a big difference as to what age gap will work depending on whether the woman is relatively young vs a mature woman.

45 year old man and 20 year old woman probably spells trouble.

65 year old man and 40 year old woman not nearly such a big problem.

[GoodOlBoy]

65 year old man and 40 year old woman not nearly such a big problem.

GOB wouldn't bet his house on that statement. 
 
My wife has 2 close RW friends (both in their 40's) in the process of divorcing their 60 something year old American husbands right at this moment.
 
One jackass actually lied about his age all the way up to the interview in Moscow. 
 
I guess he is another one who thought he looked 10-15 years younger. 
 
GOB
 

[Boethius]

I would wager in the vast majority of all relationships in all countries, the man is older than the woman.

Probably.  But only a few years older (under five years, in most cases).
 
Sixty-five vs forty is still a big age difference.  Not emotionally, there may be little difference in this regard, but physically.   In my observation, it likely is not that evident at 65, but in a majority of cases, by 72/73, it will be a larger chasm, physically, than that between a 20 year old and a 45 year old.

[ML]

One jackass actually lied about his age all the way up to the interview in Moscow. 
 
I guess he is another one who thought he looked 10-15 years younger. 
 
GOB

Well, apparently he did look younger than his age if the woman never detected it herself.   

And note, I didn't say there might not be problems . . .  I said:  not nearly such a big problem (compared to those in the lower age brackets).

But BOE has a different and interesting take on this aspect also.

[GoodOlBoy]

Not emotionally, there may be little difference in this regard, but physically.   

Sorry for the  OP.
 
As usual Boethius your observations are "spot on".
 
Both relationships previously mentioned above were doomed after 5 years and 7 years of marriage respectively.
 
The first RW was able to over look the "vanity" lie, but unfortunately the whole marriage turned out to be based on one lie after another.
 
Both RW complained to my wife about the "physical" part (or lack there of  ).
 
After talking to my wife for several days both got lawyers. One husband has had 3 houses inherited/paid for.
 
It looks now like she will get one of them to live in or sell.
 
The other RW isn't so lucky...yet.
 
GOB

[Maxx2]

I had this happen to me. One woman wrote me that was the woman I thought she was and another woman from an agency pretended to be her. I got two letters on the same day with contradictory information in them. One letter stated she just started a seamstress business (for real) and quit her former job. The other letter was about her job at the jewelry store that she was currently employed at. The point is it is possible to dealing with a genuine woman yet have two women write to you using the same name and profile. Though in your case it looks like your lady might be as  what most people here suspect that she is.


Also your point about her suddenly claiming not having good English comprehension when you wanted to discuss financial issues with her. This happen to me with my ex Russian wife. It's amazing how their English fails them when it's on a subject that they are uncomfortable with.


Welcome to RWD.

[Hammer2722]

Hell, I wouldn't even agree to meet this woman. Not even with a backup plan. There are just too many red flags that are SCREAMING RUN!!!!!! You can better spend your time and money finding an honest and sincere woman. The question is, which head of yours is going to make the decision for you?

[Sophocles]

Hell, I wouldn't even agree to meet this woman. Not even with a backup plan. There are just too many red flags that are SCREAMING RUN!!!!!! You can better spend your time and money finding an honest and sincere woman. The question is, which head of yours is going to make the decision for you?

The decision is easy once you have seen the light. For a while I was pondering the Kiev-with-a-back-up-plan option. But, after all, I have seen Kiev before.

[Sophocles]

Whereas you will be lying in bed, alone, thinking of the lovely life you might have with this goddess on your arm.

This is actually not the case with me. The difficult moments are when the red flags start appearing but you are still not sure of what to think. But once you realize what has been going on, you cannot of course think of her as a "goddess", but as the dishonest person she is. And with her life would not have been lovely.

In retrospect, I now realize a serious mistake I did. When the first red flag appeared, I rationalized it away - tried to answer my questions for myself - when I should have asked her for an explanation instead. I now understand the madness in my "method".

[ECOCKS]

Hang in there guy!

[BillyB]

Today she updated her profile on Anastasia and added more than ten new pictures, showing her beautiful legs lets say to a greater extent than ever before.

Comments, anybody? Should I go to see her in Kiev next week?

Most guys who are making plans to see a girl would be devestated after seeing the girl put up more photos to attract men. You are not normal. Your next question is asking if you should see her in Kiev.
 
 

I have a PhD and a tenure at a university. Describing the situation as I have done, I have at the same time indicated my reasons for thinking something is wrong. Should I trust my "gut feeling" or should I still check if she is serious, as she says?

I have a friend who is a rocket scientists and he's cluesless about women and the signals they give off. He just doesn't understand. Mila tells you to forget her forever and in the next post you ask if you continue to check on if she is serious.
 
You've been to Kiev and you know about back up plans and based on what you said in your posts I'm sure you done some reading. This doesn't sound like your first rodeo yet you are asking questions as if you're reading this forum for the first time. Assuming your real, unless you can take some of that PhD and convert it to wisdom, you are going to rolled over by women. Insincere women will have an easy time with you and if you're lucky enough to find a good woman, it may not last long because she will eventually lose respect for you. At your age you should have basic knowledge on how to take care of your life. How bad is what you wrote? Never tell a woman you're interested in what you are telling us.

[Sophocles]

Never tell a woman you're interested in what you are telling us.

Thank you so much for this piece of advice! I think I begin to understand now.

[Daveman]

This is actually not the case with me. The difficult moments are when the red flags start appearing but you are still not sure of what to think. But once you realize what has been going on, you cannot of course think of her as a "goddess", but as the dishonest person she is. And with her life would not have been lovely.

In retrospect, I now realize a serious mistake I did. When the first red flag appeared, I rationalized it away - tried to answer my questions for myself - when I should have asked her for an explanation instead. I now understand the madness in my "method".

>>I rationalized it away<<



Well, that's exactly what most guys do - at least at the onset of the proverbial fantasy unraveling.  You *are* different because many if not most post their 'gut instinct' question similar to "is something wrong with this woman?" - and then when they receive answers that do not coincide with that manifested fantasy, they turn 180 degrees and begin vehemently defending 'her' and further deluding themselves with new and improved rationalizations.


You are obviously intelligent, considerate, and can handle yourself quite well in the realm of the written word.  Usually when a man realizes he's been played, he disappears, never to be heard from again.... I invite you to hang around and participate.  You have direct experience with this nonsense and can possibly lend assistance in a more light handed manner to others who currently (at whatever point in time) may be experiencing what you just went through.


Admittedly, some of our members (myself included sometimes) have seen this scenario played out on the pages of this forum enough times that we tend to become less patient and more hardened to the scenario - which lends to the perception you appeared to have early on in the thread concerning some of our members. 


Dave

[JR]

I have been corresponding with a lady at AnastasiaDate for about 4 months. We write each other on normal e-mail since early September, and have talked on the phone too, a few times. Unfortutately, her cell phone went bad about 3 weeks ago and still doesn't work.

Her pictures and her profile shows up on a handful of other sites as well, but seem to be "inactivated" on all the other sites by now. On one of the sites we are told she got engaged in May this year. By the way, she wrote me two days after her engagement.

I have asked for her postal address two or three times, and she has promised to give it to me, but this far she has apparently forgot about the matter.

Since we started communicating on normal e-mail, she often disregards my questions. Some of her mails contain material that has been copied from the internet. But she is so lovely in her mails and in our long chats. And she is so calm and nice when we talk on the phone. Simply a wonderful woman!

Since August, we have been discussing meeting in Kiev in October. When she finally got her vacation in mid-September, it was not possible to agree upon a date for our meeting, since her relatives from Siberia could show up at any weekend and she just had to spend time with them. (She is 33 years old.) I don't know if the relatives ever showed up; I don't think they did.

Suddenly, a few days ago, she lets me know we can meet next week in Kiev. But the problem is she cannot right now afford traveling to Kiev from her home town more than 500 kilometers away. She wants to take a taxi and very very reluctantly asks if I am prepared to pay for her trip to Kiev. I answer her politely, saying that I could pay for her journey by train or even by aeroplane, but not for the taxi ride. She writes me back and claims I have misunderstood her: she wanted to go by train, after all. She seems upset and asks me if I really think she is a "gold digger". She says she wants to meet me so much and as soon as possible.

She wants to be "the One" for me, she says. And she tells me about her dreams about us to being together. She is my "Ukrainian girl".

Today she updated her profile on Anastasia and added more than ten new pictures, showing her beautiful legs lets say to a greater extent than ever before. The pictures were taken in early September; I know that for sure.

Comments, anybody? Should I go to see her in Kiev next week?

Probably all too true....and scammed (((

[Faux Pas]

Sorry for the  OP.
 
As usual Boethius your observations are "spot on".
 
Both relationships previously mentioned above were doomed after 5 years and 7 years of marriage respectively.
 
The first RW was able to over look the "vanity" lie, but unfortunately the whole marriage turned out to be based on one lie after another.
 
Both RW complained to my wife about the "physical" part (or lack there of  ).
 
After talking to my wife for several days both got lawyers. One husband has had 3 houses inherited/paid for.
 
It looks now like she will get one of them to live in or sell.
 
The other RW isn't so lucky...yet.
 
GOB

Perhaps your wife talking to RW isn't such a great idea? 

[Jumper]

Figure up how much you have spent with the agency. Fees for membership, translations, per letter correspondence charges, interpreters when/if you visit or do calls through them. Some will bill you for language lessons, gifts, pictures, apartments, cars, drivers, all sorts of services. Then realize there are thousands of guys who can't/won't get off their behinds and go over there. They are stuck with the pictures and reading the emails late at night while they dream or whatever else they do. This will help you understand how the agencies work this as a business. An experienced gal can make a comfortable living, have her Russian/Ukrainian BF, dress well and work from her home or agency computer for 30 or so hours a week

keep in mind also a vast majority of men using such sites are married (or in cultures they could never a marry a russian /ukranian ) and never plan to travel.
agencies make a decent amount off them, and the men don't care.
 Sounds silly, but it far closer to theose agencies  real bread and butter then most realize.
 
 

[Eduard]

That's a decent question...  the primary reason is that the affiliate agencies actively advertise for ladies to earn money chatting with old geysers men.

Everyone gets a cut from your activity -- Anastasia, the affiliate agency, the interpreters (who are actually doing most of the communicating in most cases) down to the girl herself.  It's all a conveyer belt of efficient precision with one ultimate goal in mind - to separate you from your money while maintaining your belief in the fantasy hype.  If you show up on the ground there, the fees only multiply to include drivers, real time interpreters (which the girl will invariably 'need'), apartments, etc...

and you may actually even meet the girl on the photos, just don't count on her knowing who you are or much about you. She will be quickly briefed right before the date and then the interpreter will make things up as you go. Most likely the girl will suddenly get sick for the second date or her mother will wind up in a hospital so she won't be able to see you any more on this trip. However you will be presented with an opportunity to help her to pay for sick mother's hospital bill and they might be able to come up with some more dates for you for an additional fee. So it's not all bad  Some of those "bait and switch" dates will probably take you shopping for a new wardrobe and eat at the most expensive restaurant that she gets a cut from for every date she brings. But think of a happy smile on this girl's face after a productive day like that! She may even let you hold her hand and kiss her good bye on the cheek!
Hard to believe that with all the information available on line men still go for this scam.

[Elcid1]

I am looking for good Russian or Ukrainian dating site (not agency)
 If anyone has experience and used before please tell me .
 Thanks in advance.

[Kineo]

I am looking for good Russian or Ukrainian dating site (not agency)
 If anyone has experience and used before please tell me .
 Thanks in advance.

 
 
Do some reading here you will find many opinions on this. I maybe partial to freepersonals.ru since that is how I met my UW.
 

[Sophocles]

In the original post I told about my small troubles with - or doubts about - an Anastasia lady I had been corresponding with. She had asked me for money for a  taxi ride from Melitopol to Kiev, where we were supposed to meet at the end of October.

This is what then happened:

1. It became clear that I had to attend a funeral the same weekend our meeting was supposed to take place. I informed the lady - let's call her Pseudomene - about this. I also told her I didn't want to use the Anastasia chat any more - we had discussed this question many times earlier, and she had agreed to move to some other chat forum.

2. She answered me in a somewhat angry mail, accusing me of being a liar and in addition greedy: "you are greedy i must admit". She said she was very happy we had not met.

3. I answered her without anger, saying "good bye" and wishing her well.

4. About five days later she wrote and apologised. I said I forgave her.

5. We have continued writing to each other. She tells me how much she misses me, how sorry she is for having been rude, how she still wants to meet me, and so on. Last week she told me she is afraid of  "losing" me and she wants to meet me in mid-December. However, she keeps ignoring my suggestion that we talk on Skype.

(To be continued.)

[Eduard]

...(To be continued.)

at this point it really shouldn't be...

[Muzh]

at this point it really shouldn't be...

Absolutely.
 
Just like the fisherman giving a little slack before reeling the catch in.