What makes the FSU so interesting?

[SANDRO43]

Thought this article might be interesting to read...This seems like a good opportunity to discuss the differences between three ways to describe one's homeland in Russian: родина, отечество and отчизна. Anthropologists, linguists and sociologists have been exploring the subtle differences for years, mostly poking around along gender lines: родина is connected with the maternal line (рождение, роды -- birth; родильница -- birth mother; род -- kin, clan while отчизна and отечество are related to the word for "father" (отец).

Yes, interesting article. Indeed the concept of 'own native country' has different flavours and genders in various cultures:

Greek: πατρίς (patrģs) or πατριά (patrģa) from πατήρ (patér, father)

Latin: pątria from pąter (father)
e.g. the famous verse by Roman poet Horace (Quintus Horatius Flaccus, 65 BC– 8 BC) in his Ode III.2.13:
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori (It's sweet and honourable to die for one's country).

Latin-derived languages naturally follow suit: patrie (Fr.), patria (Sp.), pįtria (Port.), etc.

Groups that refer to their native country as a "fatherland"
the Afrikaners as Vaderland
the Albanian as Atdheu.
the Armenians, as Hayrenik (as in the national anthem Mer Hayrenik, literally meaning Our Fatherland)
the Belarusians as Baćkaŭščyna (Бацькаўшчына)
the Bosniaks as Otadžbina (Отаџбина), although Domovina (Домовина) is sometimes used colloquially meaning homeland
the Bulgarians as Tatkovina (Татковина) and Otechestvo (Отечество)
the Czechs as vlast or (rarely) otčina
the Danes as fędreland
the Esperantists as patrio, patrolando or patrujo
the Estonians as isamaa (as in the national anthem Mu isamaa, mu õnn ja rõõm)
the Finns as isänmaa
the Frisians as heitelān
the Georgians as Samshoblo (სამშობლო - "[land] of parents") or Mamuli (მამული)
the Germans, as Vaterland (as in the national anthem Das Lied der Deutschen)
the Icelanders as föšurland literally meaning "land of the father"
the Irish as Athartha.
the Jews as Eretz Ha'Avot (Hebrew: ארץ האבות‎) - the literal translation is "Land of the Forefathers"
the Kazakhs as atameken
the Korea as 조국
the Latvians as tēvija or tēvzeme (although dzimtene – roughly translated as "place of birth" – is more neutral and used more commonly nowadays)
the Lithuanians as tėvynė
the ethnic Macedonians as Tatkovina (татковина)
the Dutch, as vaderland
the Norwegians as fedreland
the Oromo as Biyya Abbaa
the Pakistanis as Vatan
the Persians as Sarzamineh Pedari (Fatherland), Sarzamineh Madari (Motherland) or Meehan
the Poles, as Ojczyzna (but there is also macierz, that is Motherland, although it is seldom used)
the Russians, as Otechestvo (отечество) or Otchizna (отчизна), however Rodina [birthland], is more common, happens to be feminine, and is typically personified as a mother (sometimes referred to as birthland-mother). Otchizna is considered to be very formal, and typically used by government heads, whereas Rodina is more colloquial and widespread.
the Serbs as otadžbina (отаџбина)
the Welsh as the land of my fathers (Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau) .
the Slovaks as vlasť, or rarely domovina.
the Slovenes as očetnjava, although domovina (homeland) is more common.
the Swedes as fäderneslandet, although fosterlandet is more common (meaning the land that fostered/raised a person)
the Thais as pituphum (ปิตุภูมิ), the word is adapted from Sanskrit
the Tibetans as pha yul (ཕ་ཡུལ་)
the Vietnamese as Tổ quốc
the Ukrainians as Bat'kivshchyna (батьківщина) or, more rarely, Vitchyzna (вітчизна)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland

Therefore, most seem to favour a masculine designation, also with references to the land of forefathers.

However, when the concept shifts to land of birth, the feminine often crops up, even among the previous group: madre patria (It.), mčre patrie (Fr.), i.e. motherland.

the Turks as Anayurt or Anavatan which means motherland. The word's origin is the Turkish word Yurt or Vatan which means land with the Turkish word Ana which means mother attached to it as a prefix. Fatherland, as a noun, does not exist in Turkish.

[OlgaH]

Славься, славься, родина-Россия! (Be glorious, be glorious, motherland-Russia!)
 
 Славься, Русь –  Отчизна моя! (Be glorious, Russia –  my fatherland!)

Родина (Ro-dee-na) - is originated from род - rod - family, clan, generation - Homeland

Отчизна (Ot-chee-zna) and Отечество (O-tye-chue-stvo) - is originated from отче - otche - old Church Slavic - father.

[mendeleyev]

Thank you, Olga.

Отчизна (Ot-chee-zna) and Отечество (O-tye-chue-stvo) - is originated from отче - otche - old Church Slavic - father.

May we assume that Отечество gives us the patronymic (middle name) passed from father to the child? Just one letter different -- Отчество.

[mendeleyev]

Are you ready to touch Russia?

I'd suggest that you do!

Perhaps at first your editor/publisher was attracted to this video because he and Cody White share a connection to West Virginia. Or maybe it was the statement (in jest) that Moscow is only 55 miles from West Virginia. It could be that the title "Touch Russia" is too interesting not to explore. Or perhaps it is the connection to Russia Beyond the Headlines lending legitimacy to the title.





Whatever the reason, we think that you'll like the new RBTH blog, the new Russia Behind the Headlines ipad app and best of all, the app is free! We think you're going to like it.


(There is no connection financial or editorial interest between the Mendeleyev Journal and Russia Beyond The Headlines. We recommend the app because it is worth having--period.)

[OlgaH]

Thank you, Olga.


May we assume that Отечество gives us the patronymic (middle name) passed from father to the child? Just one letter different -- Отчество.

Отчество (otchyestvo) is also originated from отче ) otchye - father. Till 17th century the word отчество also meant a land of fathers, also clan and family. The word отчизна appeared later.

[mendeleyev]

Olga, thanks. 

[mendeleyev]

From the Mendeleyev Journal:

About 99% of what dating sites say about Russian men is nothing more than self-serving falsehoods by greedy agencies, aimed at the gullible.

It was with a great measure of thankfulness and delight that many older Russian women were greeted on 08 March Women's Day flowers, and in some cases chocolates, by strangers.

Strangers perhaps, but men with a heart. Neighbors. So on Thursday the 8th a group of men volunteering with the "We Love Russia" project began to distribute single flowers to those ladies who time has often forgotten.





Their smiles tell the story.

[Faux Pas]

From the Mendeleyev Journal:

About 99% of what dating sites say about Russian men is nothing more than self-serving falsehoods by greedy agencies, aimed at the gullible.

I'm pretty sure they are there from some of the stories I've heard but I've yet to meet some of these worthless RM types. All of the RM I know on a personal level are really good, decent stand up guys. My wife has had a number of relatives drink themselves to death. Two since we've been married. Both seemed to be good husbands, fathers and took care of their responsibilities albeit tee-totalers. I suspect every other nationality knows some of their own family and neighbors with the same problem.

Thanks for that post Mendy. It's timely and accurate IMHO.

[mendeleyev]

You're welcome, FP.

What's really special is that these guys paid for the flowers out of their own pockets.

[mendeleyev]

I don't know why mushrooms hold such a place of importance in Russian life. Perhaps it is akin to my love affair with books. I can hike all over a giant bookstore, especially those stores with second hand books. Were it not for Mrs M pleading, I could easily spend a day in a large bookstore. Why, there may be an interesting book hidden under that pile. Or maybe that pile over there.

Whichever Russian said "a fish in the belly and vodka in the glass makes for a happy life" apparently hadn't considered the mushrooms his countrymen so covet. Yes, a Russian, or Ukrainian for that matter, will spend all day in the forest, emerging either happy or sad many hours later depending on whether the foraging for mushrooms was a success.

What good is a forest if it produces no mushrooms?! Exactly.



To be sure, some families use mushrooms as a meat substitute during the strict Easter and Nativity (Christmas) fasting periods. But mushroom hunting is a tradition that most Russians take seriously, very seriously.

Last summer I discovered a mushroom growing in the back yard of our Moscow region dacha. Was I allowed to "harvest" it myself? Heck no, the adult ladies called the children over and little nieces and nephews squealed with delight as they discovered what I had already found.

Mushroom hunting in the forest on a weekend is almost a religion and personally I think that the Russian Orthodox Church should be concerned about the competition. The only problem is that your average forest is also teaming with monks and nuns trying to sniff out the same mushrooms you seek.

I can't immediately think of an activity in the West that matches the pure gusto and delight that brings a family together in the same way that mushroom hunting does for the typical Russian brood. Can you?

[SANDRO43]

Perhaps it is akin to my love affair with books. I can hike all over a giant bookstore, especially those stores with second hand books.

Then you must have liked this book and movie :

[Muzh]

I don't know why mushrooms hold such a place of importance in Russian life. Perhaps it is akin to my love affair with books. I can hike all over a giant bookstore, especially those stores with second hand books. Were it not for Mrs M pleading, I could easily spend a day in a large bookstore. Why, there may be an interesting book hidden under that pile. Or maybe that pile over there.

Whichever Russian said "a fish in the belly and vodka in the glass makes for a happy life" apparently hadn't considered the mushrooms his countrymen so covet. Yes, a Russian, or Ukrainian for that matter, will spend all day in the forest, emerging either happy or sad many hours later depending on whether the foraging for mushrooms was a success.

What good is a forest if it produces no mushrooms?! Exactly.



To be sure, some families use mushrooms as a meat substitute during the strict Easter and Nativity (Christmas) fasting periods. But mushroom hunting is a tradition that most Russians take seriously, very seriously.

Last summer I discovered a mushroom growing in the back yard of our Moscow region dacha. Was I allowed to "harvest" it myself? Heck no, the adult ladies called the children over and little nieces and nephews squealed with delight as they discovered what I had already found.

Mushroom hunting in the forest on a weekend is almost a religion and personally I think that the Russian Orthodox Church should be concerned about the competition. The only problem is that your average forest is also teaming with monks and nuns trying to sniff out the same mushrooms you seek.

I can't immediately think of an activity in the West that matches the pure gusto and delight that brings a family together in the same way that mushroom hunting does for the typical Russian brood. Can you?

Mendy, I can see the appeal to the children foraging for mushrooms. I have done that only once and I saw how my little boy got so much into it. I have no clue why he would call them shitake mushrooms but every time he found one he would yell shitake and his aunt would go and check the mushroom was okay to take. I have to say that I also enjoyed it immensely.

BTW, that's not Mrs M in that pic or did she dyed her hair? Actually, she has some resemblance with Hammer's fiance.

[mendeleyev]

Muzh, it is not the beautiful but blonde Mrs. M. 

Just friends from last summer's forest trip.

[calmissile]

Mendy,  the same fascination for mushroom hunting seems to be equally shared in Ukraine.  Not only are mushrooms used a lot in the preparation of tasty dishes, it is also a family affair to go to the forest and forage for them.  While spending a week at a friends dacha near Cherkassy, at least 2 hours a day were spent in the forest picking mushrooms.  The only thing comparable that I can remember in the US, was while a youngster in Oregon, many families go to the forest and harvest wild berries to make preserves.  It was also a family affair.

[ECOCKS]

It's apparently a Continental European thing. They do it in France (remember the truffles), Czech Republic, Poland and Bulgaria as well. As countries industrialize it will fall to the wayside and become a quaint sidebar in cultural history and anthropology books.

[SANDRO43]

It's apparently a Continental European thing. They do it in France (remember the truffles)

In Italy, too, and we have several Mycology Centers where one can have one's harvest examined for possible toxic species.

Truffles however are a rare underground type of mushroom, and require specially trained dogs or other animals for their discovery.

This 852-gram truffle was auctioned in 2004 for $52,000. Then in 2010 a 900-gram truffle went for a record $330,000 to a Chinese millionare lady.

[ML]

Truffles however are a rare underground type of mushroom, and require specially trained dogs or other animals for their discovery.

I understand that pigs are often used.

[ghost of moon goddess]

Mushroom-picking is a national pastime in Ukraine. Thousands of mushroomers go out into the woods every summer and autumn to gather. Chernobyl  being surrounded by sparsely populated marshland and forest, it WAS ideal country for mushroom hunting. In this country, mostly mushrooms are appreciated as a fried or pickled dish, also  as a base for healthy soup (yummy yummy  )

Favorite Ukrainian (and Russian  )mushrooms are: 

Опенок - Opyonok (honey mushroom)


Подберезовик - Podberyozovik (Rough birch stock)


Масленок - Maslyonok (Slippery jack)


Рыжик - Ryzhik (Saffron milk cap)


AND

Белый/Боровик - Bely/Borovik (Penny bun boletus)

[SANDRO43]

I understand that pigs are often used.

Yes, but they are more difficult to train, and restrain .

[Gator]

Moon Goddess,

Fabulous photos of mushrooms (I am a nature boy).
 
One question.  How competent are FSU people in recognizing safe and unsafe mushrooms?
 
I ask because I went mushrooming in the Swedish forest with one of my best friends, a Professor of Toxicology at the Royal Stockholm University.  It was a delightful day.  We encountered many mushrooms and he harvested all save two.  He described the toxic effects of each, e. g. damaging the liver or kidney, loss of limbs).  Most effect were GI upsets and not life threatening.  Nevertheless, the Swedish forest is very similar to the Eastern European forest, so I would assume toxic varieties are natural to the FSU.
 
Incidentally, we discovered one large mushroom and he became very ecstatic, calling it the "Crown of Crowns."  Do you have such mentally orgasmic varieties in Ukraine.
 

[Eduard]

Mushroom hunting is truly a family thing, one that is still one of the most prominent childhood memories in my mind.
Every year come end of August every weekend we'd get up real early 4 or 5 am go to the train station and catch a train to go about an hour away outside of Moscow, and hit the forest with our straw baskets. My mom always prepaired traditional lunch: boiled potatoes, tomatoes, hard boiled eggs, scallions and a few pinches of salt to dip the scallions in and put some on eggs and potatoes. That always tasted so good in the fresh air of the forest. It is so ingrained in me that even now when I walk on any ground other than asphalt or concrete my eyes are automatically searching for mushrooms and I never miss one. Funny how that works! When we immigrated to the US there were 3 things that I missed about Russia the most: family and friends, the abundance of beautiful Russian girls to date, and mushroom hunting.
One thing to know is that although there are mushrooms here in the US that look identical to the ones in Russia, some of them are poisonous here. I have read that the most cases of mushroom poisoning occur among people who move to the USA from European countries and who assume that since a mushroom looks the same as what they picked in their native country it would be good to eat. 

[ghost of moon goddess]

One question.  How competent are FSU people in recognizing safe and unsafe mushrooms?

Unfortunately not all the FSU mushroomers can identify safe and poisonous mushrooms. Every year  Ukrainian health officials report fatal and otherwise serious mushroom poisoning cases. In most of those cases, people mistakenly picked some poisonous mushrooms  which resembled edible wild mushrooms. I believe that being skeptical and doubtful is the best approach when there is no strong evidence that the mushroom you have found is not the edible one. It is better to throw away the edible  mushroom than to eat its poisonous look-alike, ( take that as a dating red flag and remove yourself from the potentially dangerous situation  )

[ghost of moon goddess]

Incidentally, we discovered one large mushroom and he became very ecstatic, calling it the "Crown of Crowns."  Do you have such mentally orgasmic varieties in Ukraine.

Gator,
Here in Ukraine we don't need to  pick any mentally orgasmic "Crown of Crowns" species to experience an ecstatic state of timeless bliss - we use some special bliss technique to experience deep state of pleasure, which makes Ukraine (and Russia) so interesting 

[ML]

Gator,
Here in Ukraine we don't need to  pick any mentally orgasmic "Crown of Crowns" species to experience an ecstatic state of timeless bliss - we use some special bliss technique to experience deep state of pleasure, which makes Ukraine (and Russia) so interesting 

I guess you are referring to the Japanese Butterfly technique.

[ghost of moon goddess]

I guess you are referring to the Japanese Butterfly technique.

I guess you have Ukrainian roots from your maternal lineage.
Impressed by your ability to think "outside the box". A sign of genius, so I understand.