Has FSU marriage thing lost its allure?

[jackman]

This whole Russian bride thing probably worked to some extent back in the 90s when FSU countries were literally dirt poor and in the deep dumps.  I was recently in Kiev and saw more luxury cars on the street than I see in a city like Chicago.  True, many people are still poor but the standard of living has come up since the 90s.  The beautiful Russian women can now meet and marry rich men at home. They don't need to go abroad.

My impression and the impression of many other men I have talked to is that 90% of the bride agencies and/or the FSU women themselves are scammers.   Most of the women have no intention of leaving their home country, unless they meet some ultra-rich famous tycoon.  Most of the women play the game to score money and gifts on the side, like an Iphone ($1000 value there), or fake visa/ticket/charity money that some naive sucker may send them even monthly.  They are repeat offenders at this and may be playing up to 10 foreign guys at any one time.

This Russian bride thing may have worked a bit back in the 90s, but now it's trite and almost dead......a joke in many circles.

[jackman]

Although I think those Western men whose background is from these FSU countries and speak the language, are treated in a different class.  They are less likely to get scammed as they are not perceived as gullible and "different" by the women there. 
Also it is a cultural thing, similar to how an Indian, Arab, or South American guy goes back to the country of his roots and brings back a bride.... something that you cannot really do unless your roots are from there.

[ML]

I disagree almost entirely with your assessment.  I have been on first dates with over 100 FSU women and I have yet to meet a scammer.  True, there probably were some scammers on the dating websites I used, and maybe I even contacted some of them.  But they got filtered out early in the game; even before they had a chance to ask me for money, etc.

Of the women I actually dated, zero of them tried to get any gifts from me, let alone expensive gifts.  Yes, I gave gifts, but not expensive gifts.  Small inexpensive trinkets in the beginning and some more expensive gifts later; but still, no woman asked me for a gift.

So I would say you have the percentage backwards.  90% of the women are NOT scammers.

As to the agencies themselves:  I think most are corrupt.  But I have never been burned by an agency because I have never dealt with an agency.  I only contact gals on free or monthly pay dating websites.

[jackman]

@ ManLooking

I think the percentage of scammers is lower on those types of websites than on the agencies. Also if your background is FSU and speak the language, the female scammers probably stay away from you as you are less of an easy target for them.

[Eduard]

This whole Russian bride thing probably worked to some extent back in the 90s when FSU countries were literally dirt poor and in the deep dumps.  I was recently in Kiev and saw more luxury cars on the street than I see in a city like Chicago.  True, many people are still poor but the standard of living has come up since the 90s.  The beautiful Russian women can now meet and marry rich men at home. They don't need to go abroad.

My impression and the impression of many other men I have talked to is that 90% of the bride agencies and/or the FSU women themselves are scammers.   Most of the women have no intention of leaving their home country, unless they meet some ultra-rich famous tycoon.  Most of the women play the game to score money and gifts on the side, like an Iphone ($1000 value there), or fake visa/ticket/charity money that some naive sucker may send them even monthly.  They are repeat offenders at this and may be playing up to 10 foreign guys at any one time.

This Russian bride thing may have worked a bit back in the 90s, but now it's trite and almost dead......a joke in many circles.

Marrying a woman who is looking for a way out was a bad idea in the 90s and would still be a bad idea now. I'm sure that most guys who married those hot Russian and Ukrainian women who were looking to escape poverty in the turbulent 90s lived to regret their decision. You are correct, Jack, hardly any one is looking to "escape" Russia or Ukraine these days, but in my opinion it's a good thing. If I were single I would much rather marry a woman who wants me for me and not looking at me as a stepping stone to a better life in the West.


Now in regard to 90% of mail order bride agencies being a scam, I would certainly agree with that assessment. The number could possibly be even higher. And this is exactly why I think staying away from them is a good idea if a man wants to find a sincere woman for marriage in the FSU. I prefer to use free local Russian sites where the vast majority of single FSU women who are looking for a relationship advertise. It is my opinion that less than half percent  of single FSU women can be found on mail order bride agency sites. However saying that 90% of FSU women are scammers is just silly IMO.


While I agree with you that mail order bride business is dying, finding a beautiful, slim, genuine, good woman with good family values for dating and marriage is still A LOT easier in the FSU compared to Western countries like Canada, USA as well as Western European countries.


You seem to be a bit frustrated and disillusioned with the whole "FSU woman" thing which is understandable if you took the traditional "agency rout". I gave you a free local site to check out in another thread, you might find it refreshing dealing with women who are not part of the industry. You also might consider looking in other places besides Kiev. It's a beautiful city to see or to meet with women you have been communicating on line with, but to search for a wife in Kiev is a lot harder than many other places in my experience. I actually just returned from a 3 week stay in Kiev 4 days ago, might have even seen you there 

[ML]

Also if your background is FSU and speak the language, the female scammers probably stay away from you as you are less of an easy target for them.

Wrong again.  My background is not FSU and despite spending something like over 2 years (in 3-5 week segments over more than 11 years) in FSU, I still only know probably 50 or so Russian words.  I only deal with business colleagues and women who can communicate in English.

[Gator]

Jackman,
 
I totally disagree with you. 
 
There are many, many fine RW looking for love with a foreign man.   Why do they look?  With many it is not economics because they are not desperate and could survive in the FSU.  Many have grown weary of how RM treat them.  Many are looking for opportunities where they feel they would thrive and not just survive.  Many believe the West is more akin to their soul based on their firsthand experiences and travels. 
 
There are so many such RW that an old goat like me has had a wonderful time with many pretty, sincere RW since 2002 (except for the last few months of a short marriage - she was a fantastic travel companion, however).  I was never a victim of a scam.  To the contrary, my experiences were so delightful that I had no reservations about RW II after my quick divorce (just returned from three weeks near the Urals). 
 
I do not speak Russian other than about 200 words slowly picked up during my 20   trips to Russia and Ukraine.   When with a RW, listen to her ideas,  laugh with her, show her respect, lead but do not force anything, open up, be patient, be urbane, be generous, and speak only Pravda - you will be treated nicely with reasonable expenditures.  If it does not lead to anything enduring, that is the risk you take, but you surely will enjoy the time together.
 
The RW you implicate in your post are bad, spoiled women (probably fine looking however  ).  Yes, they are there.   Learn how to avoid them.  Walk if you run into one.     
 
You sound very jaded and negative.   Become positive.   How?  Read RWD.  Talk with the experienced men.  Become smarter in screening and dating RW.  Just as important, improve yourself. 

[BillyB]

My impression and the impression of many other men I have talked to is that 90% of the bride agencies and/or the FSU women themselves are scammers.
 

 
What road did you and those other men travel? If you dealt with bad agencies, you will get bad results.
 

[Chicagoguy]

I agree with Gator
While the days of "desperate women" is probably over - thank God - the Russian women today still have the same problems with the Russian men. My wife never did like them much and when she got older there weren't any. Her 29 year old daughter in Moscow also has many complaints about the younger men. She likes Russia and would rather not leave but is getting frustrated. So I think there are still many, many fine ladies available. It just takes effort, time and common sense.

[ML]

I agree with Gator
While the days of "desperate women" is probably over - thank God - the Russian women today still have the same problems with the Russian men. My wife never did like them much and when she got older there weren't any. Her 29 year old daughter in Moscow also has many complaints about the younger men. She likes Russia and would rather not leave but is getting frustrated. So I think there are still many, many fine ladies available. It just takes effort, time and common sense.

Just to add a bit of  benzene here:  It has been said on these boards that we WM are really only getting what is left over after the RM have taken what they want.

Now I will run away fast!

[Misha]

My impression and the impression of many other men I have talked to is that 90% of the bride agencies and/or the FSU women themselves are scammers. 

As others have said, it all depends where and how you were looking. Honestly, the first I heard about scammers was after I had married and began reading these forums. I did not encounter any scammers on free Russian sites, other than the usual Nigerian writing me there with a father who had been some general or president   


I wager your experience is limited to the pay-per-letter agencies, but I can attest to the fact that if you use free Russian dating sites, you will pretty much never encounter any scammers among the women you write, especially if you write women that are clearly real (i.e. photos taken in daily life etc...). The reason is quite simple, as there are so many profiles on such sites, it is not worth their while to put up a fake profile in the hopes that some foreigner will find them.


However, IMVHO, the type of men who invariably see scammers behind every bush (yes, the pun is intended) will rarely use such sites as they prefer fantasy, the sites where every woman they fantasize about them will return their letters, instead of the less thrilling reality where most real women won't reply to most men when they or their "translators" are being paid to do so...


Besides, avoiding scammers is so easy. All you have to do is not send the money 

[Hammer2722]

My guess is that the OP has been burned once or twice and is jaded. Your case is no unique. Almost all of us has been conned by the beautiful Pro-dater at one time or another. Do yourself a favor and take some time to read as much as possible here on this forum to get better educated. You will be better prepared to continue your search if you choose to continue this path. My girl is from Western Ukraine in the Lviv region. Not many men search there because the number of women searching for foreigners is much smaller but chances are you'll be less likely to meet scammers.
 
 

[Misha]

Almost all of us has been conned by the beautiful Pro-dater at one time or another.

I learned about pro-daters here as well    I just remembered the one magic word back in the day when I was dating: нет 

[Daveman]

Just to add a bit of  benzene here:  It has been said on these boards that we WM are really only getting what is left over after the RM have taken what they want.

Now I will run away fast!

LoL...




IMO of the topic... the scenery has changed as with all things - change is inevitable.. and WM are not the novelty they were after the SU collapse... 


We actually just moved into the next generation of this ... evolution ..... from snail mail to internet/skype/computer in many if not most homes which has severely curtailed the need for and use of agencies..  there is a vast difference in just the last five years. 


Even with all the (inevitable) change... it still remains the same -- it's still all about a guy and a gal finding each other and growing from there. 

[Misha]

Just to add a bit of  benzene here:  It has been said on these boards that we WM are really only getting what is left over after the RM have taken what they want.

Now I will run away fast!

To be really controversial, you would have said that RW are really getting what is left over after the WW have taken what they want 

[alex330]

Just to add a bit of  benzene here:  It has been said on these boards that we WM are really only getting what is left over after the RM have taken what they want.

I prefer to think of it as we are stealing their greatest treasure 

In regards to the agencies there are many, many great women looking for a partner. Even on the less reputable large agencies. Are all agencies scamming? Absolutely almost 100% of agencies are. They all have their top girls who bring in the money. There is too much money involved. All the small agencies feed into the large ones and one woman can make the agency more money in a month than most guys on here make in a year.

One problem is that most guys write to the 22 year old banging hot model who is not looking for a relationship. She is just doing a job (or scamming, which I think is less common).

The women who are really looking are overlooked. A child, a little older, or are just not supermodels.  Some women are jaded, some lonely, and some are just curious as it may have worked for a friend. These women do not receive any responses so come and go.

it still remains the same -- it's still all about a guy and a gal finding each other and growing from there. 

Yup, and many ways to find her. Some better and less expensive than others.

[Hammer2722]

To be really controversial, you would have said that RW are really getting what is left over after the WW have taken what they want 

And you would not be too far off the mark!!!! LOL

[Eduard]

Just to add a bit of  benzene here:  It has been said on these boards that we WM are really only getting what is left over after the RM have taken what they want.

although it may be true in some cases, I have met plenty of women who agreed to get to know WM because they just didn't want to settle for what was left over in regard to single RM. Good Russian men don't last on a singles scene very long in Russia. They get snatched up quickly and their women hang on tight to them because they know that there are 5 other women lurking right around the corner ready to snatch their man up.
Truth is that there is a shortage of decent, marriage-minded, non-drinking, non-cheating responsible men in the FSU which changes dating dynamics significantly in favor of men.
So many Russian women compromise and settle for either a much less of a man that they deserve (objectively speaking) or in many cases they date married men. Others refuse to compromise and stay single hoping to meet the right guy eventually.


A percentage of these women would give a chance to a WM if they find him attractive, intelligent, funny - normal stuff like "girl meets boy, girl likes boy".

[GQBlues]

This whole Russian bride thing probably worked to some extent back in the 90s when FSU countries were literally dirt poor and in the deep dumps.

The '90s were an incredibly difficult time for the many...
 

I was recently in Kiev and saw more luxury cars on the street than I see in a city like Chicago.  True, many people are still poor but the standard of living has come up since the 90s.

I agree.
 

The beautiful Russian women can now meet and marry rich men at home. They don't need to go abroad.

They always can and always have. They didn’t all married fat/old/ugly western men even during the heyday of the MOB. The population of women engaged in the MOB, even during it's peak, had always been a scant and small number of women relative to its population.

My impression and the impression of many other men I have talked to is that 90% of the bride agencies and/or the FSU women themselves are scammers.

 
There are plenty but I have no idea how you or anyone else can come up with a number to conclude it is represented by that percentage.
 

Most of the women have no intention of leaving their home country, unless they meet some ultra-rich famous tycoon.

Well, you can say that to just about every women anywhere, FWIW. Look at Elin Nordegren.
 
Anyway, even in the heyday of the MOB, FSU is not exactly the biggest source of international brides. Additionally, compared to the total population of Russia/Ukraine, the vast majority of women have no aspirations of immigrating abroad by way of marriage through the industry.
 
I disagree with the notion the majority of women engaged in the MOB are mostly those whom are fed up with Russian men. FSUMs had always been a large part of the international marriage industry. That’s evident even more so today. The popularity of the network ‘Mamba’ today was originally created by FSU folks for FSU folks back in the ‘90s.
 
 
It still maintain a huge number of FSUMs seeking relationship/marriage with FSUWs and vice versa. Love.mail.ru   love.rambler.ru etc…so, to say that’s the focal reason, other than economics, is not being truthful.
 
 

Most of the women play the game to score money and gifts on the side, like an Iphone ($1000 value there), or fake visa/ticket/charity money that some naive sucker may send them even monthly.  They are repeat offenders at this and may be playing up to 10 foreign guys at any one time.

 
Most? Relative to what? There are a huge number of them that do. How many, who the heck knows? Additionally, those that participate in the many schemes to fleece Fat John from his money aren’t always women. Many of these WMs are sending money and romantic, fuzzy love letters to hairy Sergei and his goons FWIW.

This Russian bride thing may have worked a bit back in the 90s, but now it's trite and almost dead...

Relatively speaking, you are correct. The dynamics still works today, just that the barrel (MOB) had long since began to empty.
 
 

...a joke in many circles.

 
I don’t think ‘joke’ is the right word but it’s always been stigmatized by people from both sides of the respective regions. I know FSU nationals living here in LA proper, and who had arrived here by other means other than the MOB, look down upon those that did.
 
And for the most part, rightly or wrongly, you are well aware what many folks within your society think of it.
 
So, with all that said, where were you going with your OP?
 

[Chicagoguy]

Eduard     
GQBlues - When leafing through Visa Journey wedsite I am astounded at all the different countries represented. And both brides and grooms. We at RW Discussion are in a minority.