women with adult children

[OlgaH]

Let's see, she was from Moscow, you are from Moscow, so let me guess class = Muscovite 

but we also should take into account that the population of Moscow is composed mostly of immigrants as any megapolis population in the World. In 1939 the population of Moscow was  a little bit more than 4,5 million. In 1941 the population was 2,5 million. After the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945) the population of Moscow has been increasing rapidly because of immigrants from all over Russia and the former Republics. So nowadays  the population of Moscow is composed mostly of children and grandchildren of "regular Boryas, Vasyas, Natashas, Lubas from Ryazan or Ural,  regular Mashas and Lenas from Lugansk or Kharkiv, regular Karims from Qurghonteppa and regular Ashots from  Armavir. 
 

[Ade]

but we also should take into account that the population of Moscow is composed mostly of immigrants as any megapolis population in the World. In 1939 the population of Moscow was  a little bit more than 4,5 million. In 1941 the population was 2,5 million. After the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945) the population of Moscow has been increasing rapidly because of immigrants from all over Russia and the former Republics. So nowadays  the population of Moscow is composed mostly of children and grandchildren of "regular Boryas, Vasyas, Natashas, Lubas from Ryazan or Ural,  regular Mashas and Lenas from Lugansk or Kharkiv, regular Karims from Qurghonteppa and regular Ashots from  Armavir. 
 

Yes, but I guess most people here have met the pompous and way too pretentious Muscovite that for some bizarre reason believe they are above normal people and have "class". I know one here in Norway that currently cleans toilets for a living because her well to do, business owning husband, is too tight with his money.

Do not compare internet dating to a regular one. In real dating you have  zero chance to  socialize with  anybody from a different social level. Internets smashes all social borders and lets you date whoever.

Funny thing, every RW/WM couple we know personally here are from working/middle class backgrounds. None of the men, excluding the weirdo business owner mentioned previously, has anything other than an average income and lifestyle for Norway. All of the women, baring the pretentious Muscovite (who has incredibly suspect morals btw), as far as we can tell, are very happy and in love with their husbands. None married for money or for a lifestyle that was considerably different than they had back in Russia/Ukraine; if anything, some gave up a more "interesting" or protected lifestyle back in the FSU for the one they have here and have said that if it weren't for their husbands, they would go back.

It's not always about trading up in lifestyle. Sometimes it's just about 2 compatible people meeting and falling in love and literally all the rest is an optional extra. Sometimes they fall in love despite the lifestyle. Going by what I've heard and read, I suspect that most MOB agencies have a disproportionate number of women like you on there that are primarily looking for a lifestyle uplift and if love comes as a part of the package, all the better, but it isn't mandatory; I think a good sign of this (although I'll admit not wholly conclusive) are those that are willing to agree to a K1 or equivalent after meeting someone for only a few weeks....

[Gylden]

Yes, but I guess most people here have met the pompous and way too pretentious Muscovite that for some bizarre reason believe they are above normal people and have "class". I know one here in Norway that currently cleans toilets for a living because her well to do, business owning husband, is too tight with his money.

Funny thing, every RW/WM couple we know personally here are from working/middle class backgrounds.
What could be the reason for that? Could it be that upper class women are satisfied with their life in the FSU? Or is it that upper class women are not capable of falling in love? Could it be that working/middle class women are not satisfied with the life style in the FSU?
 
None of the men, excluding the weirdo business owner mentioned previously, has anything other than an average income and lifestyle for Norway.
This sounds strange to me, as every FSUW/WM we know here are above average income.
 All of the women, baring the pretentious Muscovite (who has incredibly suspect morals btw), as far as we can tell, are very happy and in love with their husbands. None married for money or for a lifestyle that was considerably different than they had back in Russia/Ukraine; if anything, some gave up a more "interesting" or protected lifestyle back in the FSU for the one they have here and have said that if it weren't for their husbands, they would go back.
This sounds like hype to me, are you really trying to get people to believe that lifestyle for the average working class in the FSU isn't any different than in the west?

It's not always about trading up in lifestyle. Sometimes it's just about 2 compatible people meeting and falling in love and literally all the rest is an optional extra.
See the comment earlier in this thread in refferance to Julia Roberts movie.
 
 Sometimes they fall in love despite the lifestyle not taking enough time to really get to know each other.
 
Going by what I've heard and read, I suspect that most MOB agencies have a disproportionate number of women like you on there that are primarily looking for a lifestyle uplift and if love comes as a part of the package, all the better, but it isn't mandatory; I think a good sign of this (although I'll admit not wholly conclusive) are those that are willing to agree to a K1 or equivalent after meeting someone for only a few weeks....

[Ade]

I really wish you'd learn to quote properly.

[Gylden]

I really wish you'd learn to quote properly.

I would love to know how to better present quotes on forums. Can you help, by giving me some direction?

[Kuna]

Donna_Pedro,

Since marriage is "a deal" and a woman has every right to understand a mans financial position (to ensure he can support her - which by the way I agree with) I was wondering something:

Should men with extraordinary incomes have increased expectations on their wives?

I'm curious about what additional skills or characteristics a woman must have (or develop), or what she must be prepared to do (or allow) if her WM was in the top 1% of income earners....

If a low income earner is less worthy of a FSUW, there is surely a tipping point where a FSUW is less worthy of marrying a very high income earner too.

If marriage is a deal, as you assert,  what should a FSUW be prepared to give up (or put out) to achieve and maintain marriage with such a high income earner?

If she gets fat should a very high income earner have the right to hire someone to run her fat ass around the block until she loses the big ass?

How about if she is tired and doesn't feel like sex... should a very high income earner have the right to demand it when he wants it, and how he wants it?

What about friends???  Should a very high income earner have the right to approve or disapprove of friends his new wife makes... what if she bonds with people of lower financial means???

I guess I'd like you to explain to us the real price of a FSUW...  What sort of income buys what type of wife... and what should a very high income earner expect (or demand) of his wife.

[Ade]

I would love to know how to better present quotes on forums. Can you help, by giving me some direction?

Put your text outside the quote tags. As this forum doesn't allow nested quotes, if you put the text inside, as you did, when I quote your post, your text isn't included. It makes it a little irritating to respond to individual points. Ideally, you would chop up the post you are quoting into small, quoted chunks, so it's easier to see what you are responding to.

Those that can't be bothered to quote properly don't really deserve the effort of a reply.

But, I will respond to one point of yours; I live in a relatively prosperous town with a lot of high tech industry, so when I say "average" I mean average based on what I see and know about my area. I'm sure if you live in a fishing town, average salary and lifestyle will differ. To give you two examples of the men with average lifestyles we know, one is a carpenter, with a 2 bedroom apartment and one car, the other is a tech writer with an average 40 year old house outside of town and also a single car. Neither go jet setting around the world more than the average Norwegian that I know and neither have large disposable incomes (think 350,000 - 500,000 nok which is fairly average in my town). The lifestyles of their wives was little different back home; the tech writers wife is a city girl and misses all the culture and entertainment she had back home - if he could get a job back there she'd want to move.

Now, in your area, things may be different. Perhaps to attract a woman while living in small town coastal Norway you need to have a big wallet to overcome the drawbacks. Here, not so much.

And, FWIW, not all women in the FSU have no options; perhaps you haven't been there much lately, but not all of the FSU is a run down hopeless place. My MIL has a nice, fairly modern 2 bedroom apartment with all the modcons. One of my BILs has his own EE business, a new apartment and a new SUV that would cost close to a 3/4 million nok here. My wife worked in a NPO in Moscow which involved business trips to Brussels and Berlin. We are not talking about poverty stricken, village dwellers here. The old "knight in shining armour saving the poor FSUW from the horrors of their country" mindset is so 1990's.

[Faux Pas]

Put your text outside the quote tags. As this forum doesn't allow nested quotes, if you put the text inside, as you did, when I quote your post, your text isn't included. It makes it a little irritating to respond to individual points. Ideally, you would chop up the post you are quoting into small, quoted chunks, so it's easier to see what you are responding to.

Those that can't be bothered to quote properly don't really deserve the effort of a reply.

Cut and paste and then add the quote/unquote.Very simple concept really. I suppose if a couple of more point and clicks is an overbearing hassle then yeah, it could be irritating I suppose 

Like this;

 

quotes, if you put the text inside, as you did, when I quote your post, your text isn't included. It makes it a little irritating to respond to individual points. Ideally,

[Ade]

Cut and paste and then add the quote/unquote.Very simple concept really. I suppose if a couple of more point and clicks is an overbearing hassle then yeah, it could be irritating I suppose 

Like this;

Yep, that can work, but if the original poster is too lazy to use the quote system like it should be used then why should I bother? 

Better yet, turn on nested quoting.

[Gylden]

Yep, that can work, but if the original poster is too lazy to use the quote system like it should be used then why should I bother? 

Better yet, turn on nested quoting.

There you go again. IMO being arrogant and assuming things.
I did not use the system out of laziness, I am just not a professional poster and need to learn how to use these tools. Maybe it is difficult for those who know everything to understand or tolerate.

[Ade]

There you go again. IMO being arrogant and assuming things.
I did not use the system out of laziness, I am just not a professional poster and need to learn how to use these tools. Maybe it is difficult for those who know everything to understand or tolerate.

So you took the time to learn how to press the quote button and to change the colour of the text but didn't bother to actually learn to quote properly even though you see many examples of people doing just that? How long have you been posting again? And you have over a thousand posts too, right?.

You think I'm arrogant because I assume things? It's not much of a stretch to assume certain things given the above now is it?

Edit: I have to say that there are two things that I find really tedious and very unnecessary. One is the quote thing. It's like nails down a chalkboard to me and I think it's at least inconsiderate to fellow posters. Not a big thing to be honest in a life full of much bigger things but so unnecessary all things considered. The other is people, generally American's I must say, that use, "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less". It's everywhere. Seriously people, they mean different things!
[/rant]

[Gylden]

Put your text outside the quote tags. As this forum doesn't allow nested quotes, if you put the text inside, as you did, when I quote your post, your text isn't included. It makes it a little irritating to respond to individual points. Ideally, you would chop up the post you are quoting into small, quoted chunks, so it's easier to see what you are responding to.

Those that can't be bothered to quote properly don't really deserve the effort of a reply.

But, I will respond to one point of yours; I live in a relatively prosperous town with a lot of high tech industry, so when I say "average" I mean average based on what I see and know about my area. I'm sure if you live in a fishing town, average salary and lifestyle will differ. To give you two examples of the men with average lifestyles we know, one is a carpenter, with a 2 bedroom apartment and one car, the other is a tech writer with an average 40 year old house outside of town and also a single car. Neither go jet setting around the world more than the average Norwegian that I know and neither have large disposable incomes (think 350,000 - 500,000 nok which is fairly average in my town). The lifestyles of their wives was little different back home; the tech writers wife is a city girl and misses all the culture and entertainment she had back home - if he could get a job back there she'd want to move.

Now, in your area, things may be different. Perhaps to attract a woman while living in small town coastal Norway you need to have a big wallet to overcome the drawbacks. Here, not so much.

And, FWIW, not all women in the FSU have no options; perhaps you haven't been there much lately, but not all of the FSU is a run down hopeless place. My MIL has a nice, fairly modern 2 bedroom apartment with all the modcons. One of my BILs has his own EE business, a new apartment and a new SUV that would cost close to a 3/4 million nok here. My wife worked in a NPO in Moscow which involved business trips to Brussels and Berlin. We are not talking about poverty stricken, village dwellers here. The old "knight in shining armour saving the poor FSUW from the horrors of their country" mindset is so 1990's.

I don't mind if I am not worthy of a response from you, but somehow I think you will manage anyway.

Well in your previous post you said "Funny thing, every RW/WM couple we know personally here are from working/middle class backgrounds."
Just to make things clear 350 000 - 500 000 Norwegian kroner disposable income is absolutley not anywhere near average or working class.

Now you are contradicting yourself, I thought you said people get married out of love. Or is this just more arrogant sarcasim?

[Faux Pas]

 

Yep, that can work, but if the original poster is too lazy to use the quote system like it should be used then why should I bother? 

Better yet, turn on nested quoting.

IMPO, nested quoting is more convoluted and confusing than the way Gylden was doing it. You're quite anal retentive aren't you? A place for everything and everything in it's place? He's found a method that works for him and fits comfortably to his particular style. If you don't like it, can't read it or can't follow it, simply don't respond rather than your obvious attempts to demean others so you feel better about yourself. Just saying

[Kuna]

IMPO, nested quoting is more convoluted and confusing than the way Gylden was doing it. You're quite anal retentive aren't you? A place for everything and everything in it's place? He's found a method that works for him and fits comfortably to his particular style. If you don't like it, can't read it or can't follow it, simply don't respond rather than your obvious attempts to demean others so you feel better about yourself. Just saying

 

Ade is a DBA isn't he???  Say no more!

[Donna_Pedro]

from Ryazan or Ural,  regular Mashas and Lenas from Lugansk or Kharkiv, regular Karims from

your point being?

[Donna_Pedro]

Should men with extraordinary incomes have increased expectations on their wives?

 You come up with bazaar shit.. no, really bazaar sht, and then want me to debate it? I am pragmatic. I have little patience with "imaginary stuff". But if you want my permission to have smth increased or decreased.. Ok, permission granted. 

[Kuna]

 You come up with bazaar shit.. no, really bazaar shat, and then want me to debate it? I am pragmatic. I have little patience with "imaginary stuff". But if you want my permission to have smth increased or decreased.. Ok, permission granted. 

 

That's brilliant...  you're really incredible!!!

You have little patience for "imaginary stuff".... but you think you're so smart you can search for a fragment of a man's actual financial position and pass it off as valid commentary...  DP... You live off of imaginary stuff.   

You really have to find a way to get busy and stop acting like one of those miserable old babushkas sitting outside apartment buildings filled with envy and gossiping about everyone that walks past.

Come on...  I was really trying to learn something...

In your opinion,  what would happen if a woman with a sense of entitlement actually ends up with more than she expected?

Does her sense of entitlement grow...  or does she finally realise she's the one not worthy and therefore she has to pick her act up and start acting like a decent human being???

You're quick to judge men you've never even met - so don't tell us you have not patience for "imaginary stuff"... you CREATE the imaginary stuff... so please just tell us if a woman with a sense of entitlement would ever have enough... or is greed so much a part of their personality that nothing is ever enough?

Be brave - just be honest...  your answer will help many men identify the dangers of dating/marrying certain types of FSUW.

[Ade]

Ade is a DBA isn't he???  Say no more!

Actually... but no, let's not go there. 

[Ade]

IMPO, nested quoting is more convoluted and confusing than the way Gylden was doing it.
You are kidding, right?
 You're quite anal retentive aren't you?
No, not really, at least not as I would define it.
A place for everything and everything in it's place? He's found a method that works for him and fits comfortably to his particular style. If you don't like it, can't read it or can't follow it, simply don't respond
Think netiquette
rather than your obvious attempts to demean others so you feel better about yourself. Just saying
As for demeaning others. Well, IMO, those that are demeaned tend to do it to themselves, sometimes I just highlight the fact.

And really, that was a really annoying way to quote. IMO.

[Misha]

but we also should take into account that the population of Moscow is composed mostly of immigrants as any megapolis population in the World. In 1939 the population of Moscow was  a little bit more than 4,5 million. In 1941 the population was 2,5 million. After the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945) the population of Moscow has been increasing rapidly because of immigrants from all over Russia and the former Republics. So nowadays  the population of Moscow is composed mostly of children and grandchildren of "regular Boryas, Vasyas, Natashas, Lubas from Ryazan or Ural,  regular Mashas and Lenas from Lugansk or Kharkiv, regular Karims from Qurghonteppa and regular Ashots from  Armavir. 

Olga, don't you know the Moscow class system? Someone born in Moscow is higher on the pecking order than someone who merely moved there, but they are nothing compared to the ones whose parents were born there, likewise they are trumped by the Muscovites who can claim that all their grandparents were Muscovites and the princes and princesses of Moscow are those who claim that their families have been there since at least the Revolution   However, any Muscovite will be entitled to look down on those provincial folk no matter when they moved there 

[Daveman]

While searching  for an older somewhat related thread,  which I've yet to find,  I ran across this by jb, circa 2005.  A decent read..


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=176.msg1916#msg1916

[Donna_Pedro]

That's brilliant...  you're really incredible!!!

Please direct your stream of consciousness to someone else.  I can not contribute much replying to incoherent nonsense.

[Ade]

Just to make things clear 350 000 - 500 000 Norwegian kroner disposable income is absolutley not anywhere near average or working class.

Yes, you are right, the average for all individuals over all of Norway is lower. The average for guys between 35 and 55 (the international marrying crowd) is higher than the Norwegian average though and the average in that age rage in my area is definitely much higher. Also, for joint income Norwegian households, 350 - 500 is pretty average. So a single earner of 500,000 supporting a FSUW that will undoubtedly take some time to earn a decent salary here, will have a lifestyle of the average dual income household.

The point being that a FSUW from a good city with a reasonable job is not going to experience rags to riches differences in lifestyle. Sure, a poverty stricken village pauper would but so she would if she married a middle class guy in Moscow too. In other words, if they aren't marrying for love they've done a pretty dumbarse job of finding Mr Big Wallet.

[Daveman]

ah HA! Found it...


This one is circa 2006 and very interesting within a page or two(big surprise there!).  Another "money" question from a slightly different angle.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1750.0

[Donna_Pedro]

Olga, don't you know the Moscow class system? 

again, whats your point? I understand that you and Olga have some kinda beef with us, moscovites, I am just trying to figure out what it is and how it relates to the topic discussed?