women with adult children

[GoodOlBoy]

She, to the other hand, seems to think that the relationship has been established, she thinks that they are a couple and in a couple a man is supposed to help a woman financially.

Interesting post.
Let's explore this statement a little further.
 

So this is a question for civi68 - are you  a couple? If yes, cough up.  Because this is a mentality of Russian women of my generation -....

Without being to forward, could GOB inquire into what exactly is your "generation"?
 
Surely, you are not stating that ALL RW suffer from this mentality?
 
FWIW, my wife is in her 40's and maybe one in a million but she would just a soon swallow tacks and sh!t blood before demanding money from me (while we were "dating").
 
She had waaaaaay to much pride to behave that way.
 
For example: I had to beg her to take the money from me for the flight from Omsk to Moscow for her K1 interview and a decent hotel to boot!
 
 

...a man takes financial responsibility for his woman when they become a couple (start dating), and it is expected of him to help her family.

Oh really?
 
No K1 filed, No ring on the finger, No interview in Moscow (which she may fail to show up for or even fail to pass it if she does), nada zip nothing.
 
BUT the OP is supposed to bend over  "help" not only his lady friend but her Mother, her Daughter, her Son in Law and even her Grandchild?
 
Anybody else, maybe the family cat or dog? 
 
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the "financial" threshold that needs to be established here is that the RW in question actually arrives here in the GoodOl' USA and MARRIES the AM.
 
Then and only then does the "community" wallet come out!
 
This is complete and total nonsense and any Newbie reading this should pay VERY close attention to what is being said here by this RW.
 
Newbies do what you want. But GOB's advice: RUN, don't even walk away from this mentality.
 
GOB

[Donna_Pedro]

 
Without being to forward, could GOB inquire into what exactly is your "generation"?
 
Surely, you are not stating that ALL RW suffer from this mentality?

All? No. Since I spent my first 35 years in Russia, I always considered it to be a cultural norm. But no, obviously some people do not fit into this picture. I did demanded money from my husband to be because it proved seriousness of his intentions. Pride is overated. Common sense rules.  I was going to leave all my life behind and potentially risk my child's well being. I needed  to have some important things straight before I left. But I did it to my ex- russian husband and everybody whom I ever dated before. If a man does not agree to it.. Well.. there are always other men who would. The main thing is not to lower one's standards. And this is a common problem with RW. Poverty is the reason, of course. Sad, very sad.
 
 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the threshold that needs to be established here is that the RW in question arrives here in the GoodOl' USA and actually MARRIES the AM.

Well, have I managed to get me a better deal.    But then, I would not agree to anything less.
 
 

 Newbies do what you want. But GOB's advice: RUN, don't even walk away from this mentality.

I guess I need to tell it to my american husband of 10 years. He should have run. But its too late now.

[GQBlues]

I think the problem is that even after a face-to-face meeting with his woman civi68 still does not think there is a REAL relationship between them. He says "but I only met her once, how can a send her the money?" which translates into "how can I send money to a stranger?" She, to the other hand, seems to think that the relationship has been established, she thinks that they are a couple and in a couple a man is supposed to help a woman financially. So this is a question for civi68 - are you  a couple? If yes, cough up.  Because this is a mentality of Russian women of my generation - a man takes financial responsibility for his woman when they become a couple (start dating), and it is expected of him to help her family. Of course, there is a problem of growing appetites. And a man is supposed to find a fine line between feeding  growing demands of his wife's extended family and helping as much as he feels reasonable.

That may well be DP, but I'll leave the guessing as to why would 'she' assume anything less of a relationship if he hasn't got the clue....
 
Be that is this may, what are his realistic option?
 
He can go and meet another woman if this one is loaded with a heavy baggage. But what's the chances of this not happening again with the next one, or the one after, so forth and so on...
 
Chances are when one deals with women engaged in international marriages, regardless of age, kinships follow. If she's in her 20s, chances are she'll have Mumski and babushka. If she's in her 30s, chances are she'll have mumski, babushka, and likely her own children. If she's in her 40s, chances are she'll have mumski and grown children (grown if he's lucky)....If she's in her 50s, yeah right...that'll be the day. LOL.
 
This doesn't change even if a man changes location and goes instead to the Philippines, China, Vietnam, Columbia, Detroit or  East Los Angeles.
 
No siree Bob!. If men can't stay home to date and marry a woman in their backyard, well, younger prettier girls will undoubtedly have attachments to them. So what's to do? Marry a woman whom you can support in making sure she makes something of herself in life so she can take full advantage of the endless opportunities that will be available for her, and maybe - just maybe....she can help defray some of the cost to look after her family.
 
Aw Rats! Wait a second... that'll be a pickle too because the numero uno complaints men have about women in their backyard is, they're too caught up pursuing a career for themselves... 
 
Yeah, GFE/dying alone isn't such a bad option afterall...

[Donna_Pedro]

That may well be DP, but I'll leave the guessing as to why would 'she' assume anything less of a relationship if he hasn't got the clue....

I re-told this topic briefly to Mr. Pedro and he asked the same question. The answer is clear to me - the guy has already heavily (in her understanding) invested in to this affair materially. In her mind it is a de-facto relationship. But obviously not to him. Misunderstandings like this happen to people all the time.
 

Be that is this may, what are his realistic option?

First thing first -  he needs to establish a relationship. Meaning -  to get to the point when he is ready to say - "this is not a stranger, this is my woman, my future wife". And then he needs to start a conversation, ask how much she wants, tell her what he is capable of and work out a compromize. If this is not possible - then she is not his woman.

[GQBlues]

I re-told this topic briefly to Mr. Pedro and he asked the same question. The answer is clear to me - the guy has already heavily (in her understanding) invested in to this affair materially. In her mind it is a de-facto relationship. But obviously not to him. Misunderstandings like this happen to people all the time.

Yes...and yet boards like this encourage men to meet/date women via an interpreter/electronic translator. LOL. I don't mean to make light of this, but when one put together everything and every facet of every discussion/s about this affair in one bowl, stir until boil...bwalla, all you really have on your hands is one big bowl of oxymoron soup sans the salt and garlic for taste.
 

First thing first -  he needs to establish a relationship. Meaning -  to get to the point when he is ready to say - "this is not a stranger, this is my woman, my future wife". And then he needs to start a conversation, ask how much she wants, tell her what he is capable of and work out a compromize. If this is not possible - then she is not his woman.

How'bout simply understanding this scenario are highly likely to happen, thus make a conscious decision as to whether or not this is something they really want to be involved in. Instead of jumping woman to woman looking for the right price tag.

[GoodOlBoy]

Pride is overated.

Pride = Character (in my book anyway).
 
Something that the "entitlement" crowd could learn a lot about today.
 
GOB

PS... You can't buy a "loving wife" with money.

[Donna_Pedro]

Instead of jumping woman to woman looking for the right price tag.

This is close to what I said. It is clear that sooner or later, one way or another he will have to help her family financially. So the question, the way I see it, is - does he want to go on with this woman or it is too much for him and he needs to look for someone less problematic - without parents? or without children? If he wants to go on with this woman - the solution is to work out a compromise and observe the way it works. If a woman is grateful and content - good. Constantly asks for more - red flag.

[GoodOlBoy]

It is clear that sooner or later, one way or another he will have to help her family financially.

Agree completely!
 
On the other hand, if you asked me 8 years ago did I feel like my MIL and FIL were my second family (after my first visit to Omsk), I would tell you flat out hell no!
 
There has to be a certain amount of time together (for me anyway) before I say the words Mom and Dad to some strangers in my life.
 
GOB

[Donna_Pedro]

Pride = Character (in my book anyway).
 .

Sorry. Different books. In my book pride in the way of common sense = stupidity.

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry. Different books. In my book pride in the way of common sense = stupidity.

Yes, but you have to understand that the way you explain your dating behavior is:
 
Common sense =  How much money can I extract from a suitor.
 
GOB

[civi68]

I agree with the statements about No K1/woman not in America/not married=no sending money/support the family. There is a long time between her possibly being here and getting married. Yes, we discussed the possibility of a visa since this is something you have to discuss if you are going on a second trip. There also have to be some feelings about each other if you are going on a second trip. I have been doing the FSU thing for a while and you really have to think with your head on things.
To be asked about sending possibly thousands of dollars on an operation, chemo, radiation, etc, for a relative with a long term illness is a bit much at this point. We have to remember that until the woman makes some moves that change her life such as coming to the US, the guy is still a 2-3 week romeo that has not seriously impacted the woman's life.
    As for most guys being required to support the family, most guys I met on trips only have enough income to support the woman if she also works. Many FSU women may need to reduce their expectations of meeting a rich man that can pay for everything.

[Donna_Pedro]

Yes, but you have to understand that the way you explain your dating behavior is:
 
Common sense =  How much money can I extract from a suitor.

I wonder what part of my post could have  caused this conclusion? The one below

Because this is a mentality of Russian women of my generation - a man takes financial responsibility for his woman when they become a couple (start dating), and it is expected of him to help her family.

merely states that IMO, men's financial participation is widely considered a social norm for a dating couple in Russia. I am not suggesting that it needs to happen  since day one of dating, but as soon as a couple feels that they have a RELATIONSHIP  then a man is supposed to get involved into woman's life. In case of local dating a man might offer a woman some help with apartment renovation by buying materials or physically doing some jobs - painting etc.. or offer to help her to take an elderly parent to the doctor, etc, All these things show a woman that a man CARES about her. But for a long-distance relationship the only REAL way a man can demonstrate that he cares is money. I could not see  moving myself and  the child half a world away merely on promises and words of love. Money is a not a guarantee, in fact its not even a good proof, but its better than nothing. Btw, I did not "extract" much. At that time my husband's situation at work was rather shaky so was his finances. He gave me when he did not have much himself. I brought some of that money back to help him to pay the cost of my relocation. But it told me a lot about his personality.

[civi68]

I consider small amounts of money (hundred or more) for special holidays like Christmas, birthday, women's day, etc. Monthly stipends, no. To put things in perspective, most people I know outside of the FSU dating realm think it is crazy for guys to send any money or to even do this kind of dating.
   I posted this topic to get everyone's opinion and it has generated a lot of good points. A lesson to be learned is that initial requests for money (like my situation of monthly stipend for her daughter) can balloon into large amounts later (like the mother getting sick) to where you have to start asking yourself at what point do you start losing perspective and recognizing when things are beyond your ability to pay. Another lesson is that although some of these women may like you, many are also thinking that you will save them and their family from their financial problems. You may not experience at the beginning of the relationship but it may come up months or years later.
   As for me, I will continue with my trip in February as long as she wants me to be there. But I am sticking to my guns about the money issue. It's too early and my history with this woman consists of 4 months of Skype before meeting, 3 weeks of time together, and Skype after that. In my view, that is enough for the possibility of a relationship, but not one where I can say with confidence that the relationship will be permanent. Until she is here, she has not really had to do anything that changes her life.

[Misha]

FWIW, my wife is in her 40's and maybe one in a million but she would just a soon swallow tacks and sh!t blood before demanding money from me (while we were "dating").

Ditto for my wife who was in her twenties 
 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the "financial" threshold that needs to be established here is that the RW in question actually arrives here in the GoodOl' USA and MARRIES the AM.

I agree.
 

Then and only then does the "community" wallet come out!

Yes, and it would be good to define expectations and limits before the vows are taken.
 

[Donna_Pedro]

   As for me, I will continue with my trip in February as long as she wants me to be there. But I am sticking to my guns about the money issue. It's too early and my history with this woman consists of 4 months of Skype before meeting, 3 weeks of time together, and Skype after that. In my view, that is enough for the possibility of a relationship, but not one where I can say with confidence that the relationship will be permanent. Until she is here, she has not really had to do anything that changes her life.

Let me tell you how SHE might see the situation. Or at lease how I would see it if I was in her shoes. Her mother needs treatment NOW, not a year later, not when someone is comfortable with helping . And the guy that she was considering to be "the one" just sits on his hands quietly "sticking to his guns" like its none of his business. I dont suggest that you send thousands of dollars, but not to send anything at all in this situation is just equally bad. The translator gives me the word "jerk" as a english equivalent of the russian word "zhlob" but I dont think that its a very close translation. 

[GoodOlBoy]

Her mother needs treatment NOW, not a year later, not when someone is comfortable with helping .

I completely understand your statement DP (if that abv. is ok with you?)
 
My first wife (49 yrs. old) needed a kidney and eventually a heart transplant.
 
Obviously, I did not seek out a stranger from overseas to help us out of our horrible predicament.
 
Maybe I should have, because a beautiful soul died and left this earth.
 
But it is life and you eventually learn to move on and hopefully accept this.
 
I truly wish this lady and her family the best, I mean it!
 
But you cannot expect a "rich" WM to come along and solve all of your problems, sorry!
 
GOB

[Donna_Pedro]

 
But you cannot expect a "rich" WM to come along and solve all of your problems, sorry!

I dont suggest to solve ALL THE PRROBLEMS. I suggest that he offers SOME help. Do you feel the difference? Btw, even if they are, as you put it - "complete strangers" I believe that a concept of helping "complete strangers"  in need should not be new to you, living in the country where charity is so common and charitable contributions can be written off taxable income.

[GQBlues]

...
 Btw, even if they are, as you put it - "complete strangers" I believe that a concept of helping "complete strangers"  in need should not be new to you, living in the country where charity is so common and charitable contributions can be signed off taxable income.

LOL, this is why I'll never be rich.   
 
I can cite a lot more than a few instances where I do things likely most folks would frown over and think I'm nuts. Tough...
 
Anyway, one story...I received a forwarded email/link from one of our friend from the animal rescue center we help out with. The email was from one of the foster parent whom I never met...long story short, she have a parrot who had a bad case of herniated ovary, or something like that which required urgent surgery to survive. The procedure cost a pretty penny. Dang! I read the mail and went to follow the link. Closed the puter and spoke with wifey. Thumbs-up! Got back on the net and sent money$$. We were kept abreast of the all the events that ensued. Yeay! Parrot lives!!! You can now give her a cracker...
 
Children and/or animals - anytime. Stranger or not.
 
Anyway....if I had to put my foot on the OP's shoe considering they must've had more than adequate time chatting, plus a visit (don't know what the detail of it was), chatting some more since that visit....the fact the OP knows enough of her personal details, etc....I think they're a bit beyond strangers to one another to me....
 
Yup.On the surface of this...ka-ching time for me baby!
 
ButDasJazMi...
 
- Wasn't too long ago members here tell other men to send flowers to women they haven't yet met. As though that makes more sense. Sure the price differential is notable but then so are the situations.
 
As for tax benefit, I can assure you DP, even if I gave all my earnings to charity, it amounts to so very little benefit.

[ML]

To add my experiences re the idea that man should support/help FSU women he is involved with to one degree or another.

I have experience with several FSUW in the 35-50 age bracket.

There were vast differences between them regarding financial matters.

Some expected financial help immediately.  Even on first date, some wanted me to buy an extra meal or two for them to take home to somebody.

Some even offered to pay for their own meals on first date and worried about any money that I spent on tickets for this or that.

I don't know what explains this vast difference in the attitudes of these FSUW who were of the same generation.  Most all were from what would be considered middle class families.  None were in danger of starving or going without basic necessities, but none were well-to-do.  All were earning current income themselves from steady jobs.

This same vast difference is demonstrated in the previous posts in this thread.

[Gator]

... this woman says that if she comes to America, we have to send $300 a month to help support her daughter.

I placed the emphasis on "if."   This does not indicate a sense of entitlement, something I abhor as much as Good Ol' Boy abhors it.


Your "woman" is explaining the reality of her situation.  Evidently she now supports her  daughter and if she were to move to America, she would not be able to continue that support.  She would look to you to replace the support.


Regarding charity, charity begins at home and family is home.  Nevertheless, charity takes different forms.   You need to know more about the daughter.  Why is she not able to support herself?  You as the possible future patriarch need to develop a long-term plan so that the daughter does not require charity.  Is such a plan possible?  The last thing you should do is support laziness.  The proper plan may cost more than $300/mo initially.


The mother's illness? At 85-yo she needs hospice care more than expensive treatments.   Do what you can do to make her as comfortable as possible such as non-debilitating medication.  Be sympathetic, yet explain the harsh reality to your "woman."  She will probably ask "What would American doctors do?" so have an answer.


In summary, if you wish to continue the relationship you need to handle this situation better than saying "no."  A firm "no" will make you seem "greedy" which would be death.   Instead, show leadership.  Also, be diplomatic. 


But maybe you would not be upset if this woman thought you greedy and ended the relationship? 

[Faux Pas]

Anyway, one story...I received a forwarded email/link from one of our friend from the animal rescue center we help out with. The email was from one of the foster parent whom I never met...long story short, she have a parrot who had a bad case of herniated ovary, or something like that which required urgent surgery to survive. The procedure cost a pretty penny. Dang! I read the mail and went to follow the link. Closed the puter and spoke with wifey. Thumbs-up! Got back on the net and sent money$$. We were kept abreast of the all the events that ensued. Yeay! Parrot lives!!! You can now give her a cracker...
 
Children and/or animals - anytime. Stranger or not.
 

Really? A parrot? LOL No friggin way!

I am a softie to any thing or anybody I'm convinced is in need. I'm very charitable and very generous to a fault and often at my peril but a parrot surgery? I can believe someone would actually do that. Maybe I am not as soft as I thought

[Gator]

Really? A parrot? LOL No friggin way!

FP, GQ's sarcasm can be delightfully subtle.  Maybe he just watched  rerun of Monty Python's parrot skit.

[Gator]

I don't know what explains this vast difference in the attitudes of these FSUW who were of the same generation.

Easy answer.  Every RW is different. And so are the AM.  And some individual RW will behave differently dependent upon the man, what they are feeling about him, and the situation.


This thread does bring up the debatable issue of does a RW get on the payroll before moving to America?  And to what extent?  And if so, when?  IMO a man should do what he feels is correct after complete deliberation on the matter.  If his response is a major conflict with the RW's expectations, it is better to learn that before she arrives.

[OlgaH]

I don't know what explains this vast difference in the attitudes of these FSUW who were of the same generation. 

Easy answer.  Every RW is different. And so are the AM.  And some individual RW will behave differently dependent upon the man, what they are feeling about him, and the situation.

Yes, every RW is different as any other women in this World, and the same regarding the men regardless of their nationality. They are different within their own culture as there are several factors that influence the individualization process.

[Donna_Pedro]

Yes, every RW is different as any other women in this World, and the same regarding the men regardless of their nationality. They are different within their own culture as there are several factors that influence the individualization process.

On this deep philosophical note lets close the discussion. And the board itself. While we are at it we might also sue the board owners for suggesting that Russian women can have some  cultural similarities worth discussing, which is insulting in an essence.