women with adult children

[Jumper]

Right. I do remember asking my mom this question - why didnt her daddy help her to deal with evil step-mother?  The girl did not have any backbone. Heck, this whole family lacked  backbones, only that stepmother had one ...

It's abundently clear what type of women, the father married, is it not?
Regardless his backbone, ,was it a good choice for him and his family?

Sorry I do not remember ever mentioning  love. And no, generally speaking there is no connection between wealth and how easy or difficult it is to love a person.

Of course we wern't speaking of  love, we both know that well..

Do not compare internet dating to a regular one. In real dating you have  zero chance to  socialize with  anybody from a different social level. Internets smashes all social borders and lets you date whoever.

Dating  and marriage are two seperarte things, however I fully agree with you that  the internet has opened up the dating,and marriage  scene.
 I kind of like the ideal, since I put far more value on a persons individual integrity, than their social *class*
Yet i'm not convinced the new social experiment will result in lower divorce rates..
 
are you?
 
 
DP- I've always liked your posts from back in the RWG days..
even the 'tude it's delivered with is amusing.
 You needn't fret that  I've swallowed the reality of the scene long ago, economic disparity is what drives it. It doesn't bother me at all. It simply is.
 
But my continued advise will be that couples, regardless the side of the ocean they are on, try and keep international dating as close as possible to regular dating.
 
That they try to remain grounded and realistic, to keep Cinderella , Prince Charming, and White Knight in Shining Aromor fantasies to a minimum.
 
For every Cinderrella you could possibly  show, I could show twice as many failed relationships because they were based on unrealistic expectations from both people,probably  of average backgrouds.
 
Wanting a better life is completely  normal..
but for members to suggest that the average family life in europe or the west ,is simply so substandard to be unworthy the average person elsewhere ,is what seemed sillyness.
 

[Donna_Pedro]

Why scam when you can simply rent out grandma's old flat    But, some would say that the queen of the "scammers" was in Moscow: the ex-mayor's wife made billions with her connections...

Girls in Lugans dont have grandmothers with flats?  And queen of scammers from Moscow was both in diapers and behind an "iron curtain"  when people in the west were making billions off their connections


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the   


Btw, Enron, too, was not in Russia.
So, I am sorry, both arguments are way off target.

People go to where the money and jobs are, and most of the money that makes its way to Russia stays in Moscow.

Oh, yes, they want to have the cake and eat it too.    Dont take me wrong - they are welcome. But you cant talk about "moscow attitudes" and at the same time want to come and live there.

[Ade]

I have no more to say as anything I say is met by a tenfold larger verbiage barrage.   There is not end, so good bye.  I could care less.   

  A man of your age should know better. But I guess you've proved yet again that you don't.

[Donna_Pedro]

Of course we wern't speaking of  love, we both know that well..

Right. Because its a common misconception - people say that they are looking to get married and have a family, but what they really want is love (or worse - sex).  And love is a devious thing. It is unstable, confusing etc, its all those things that you can not rely on in a family.  Dont take me wrong, love is good. But its a cherry on top of a cake, not the whole cake. Cakes without cherries might be bland, but without a cake,, a cherry is useless, it dries out and dies. So I am talking about a cake here, not about a cherry. 

Yet i'm not convinced the new social experiment will result in lower divorce rates..
 
are you?

you are right.
 

But my continued advise will be that couples, regardless the side of the ocean they are on, try and keep international dating as close as possible to regular dating.

I am not suggesting that everybody should look for  a Donald Trump. I would, you know,  but there are not enough of Trumps for everybody, so we need to be realistic here.    But since love is too unreliable to build a family solely on it (especially love to a person that all you know of is something that he himself chooses to reveal), and relationships are still in the making (at best) when a woman arrives to live here, the only reliable thing that can be somewhat (somewhat!) predicted ahead of time is a man's potential financial stability. What I suggest   to women is what we call -" take off  pink glasses" and get as much info as they can before engaging in this journey. 

[OlgaH]

Lame!  You know you meant it and said it.  You remind  me of those high school girls who would start malicious rumors about a girl not in their little circle of witches.  And when called on it, denied it.  Even at my innocent age  I thought those girls were bad and low class.

Gator, your perception of what I said is just your perception. No worries at all. 

But Pitbull summarized it well.

Gator, dear, don't pretend to be dumber than you are. I understand, it sucks, you yourself described your "Daughter's" relationship with a total scumbag. You let it out. Oops. She is not a good naive "classy" little girl. It's not the end of the world, relax.
Oh, so that we cover the "worthy men" as well. The "Daughter" doesn't only lead on the married scumbag daddies and horny old goats for presents. She also does it to numerous "worthy" men. She does not discriminate on the basic of the "man's" worthiness, as long as the presents are expensive.
Okay, the whole picture is now covered, case closed

[OlgaH]

And yet, a lot of people from all over former USSR, who  dont like our "attitudes" keep consistently coming to live in Moscow (as you and Olga have kindly pointed out). You know this old russian joke - hedgehogs were crying of pain, but kept eating  cactus.

Yes, they do trying to economically improve their lives and some do because of their naivety thinking there is bread and butter ready for them at every Moscow corner, but eventually face a different reality.

[Misha]

Girls in Lugans dont have grandmothers with flats? 

Sure, but they will only get a small fraction in rent compared to the Muscovites.

Oh, yes, they want to have the cake and eat it too.    Dont take me wrong - they are welcome. But you cant talk about "moscow attitudes" and at the same time want to come and live there.

True, but it could also be said that Muscovites are eating the cake from the rest of Russia as well as they are the ones who will benefit disproportionately from the oil, gas and other resources shipped out of Russia 

[Ade]

Right. Because its a common misconception - people say that they are looking to get married and have a family, but what they really want is love (or worse - sex).  And love is a devious thing. It is unstable, confusing etc, its all those things that you can not rely on in a family.  Dont take me wrong, love is good. But its a cherry on top of a cake, not the whole cake. Cakes without cherries might be bland, but without a cake,, a cherry is useless, it dries out and dies. So I am talking about a cake here, not about a cherry. 

you are right.
   
I am not suggesting that everybody should look for  a Donald Trump. I would, you know,  but there are not enough of Trumps for everybody, so we need to be realistic here.    But since love is too unreliable to build a family solely on it (especially love to a person that all you know of is something that he himself chooses to reveal), and relationships are still in the making (at best) when a woman arrives to live here, the only reliable thing that can be somewhat (somewhat!) predicted ahead of time is a man's potential financial stability. What I suggest   to women is what we call -" take off  pink glasses" and get as much info as they can before engaging in this journey.

I hope you unmarried guys out there are reading this; take your time to get to know your prospective partner or the odds are, if you've decided on a K1 in a couple of weeks and hardly know her, you'll end up with someone like this; someone who thinks a marriage is a business arrangement, a lifestyle choice and love and emotional attachment, if you're lucky, is a "nice to have" but not really necessary. As I've said time and again, if you can't spend a lot of time dating and getting to know a woman in the FSU it's not worth doing.

[Patagonie]

That's brilliant...  you're really incredible!!!

You have little patience for "imaginary stuff".... but you think you're so smart you can search for a fragment of a man's actual financial position and pass it off as valid commentary...  DP... You live off of imaginary stuff.   

You really have to find a way to get busy and stop acting like one of those miserable old babushkas sitting outside apartment buildings filled with envy and gossiping about everyone that walks past.

Come on...  I was really trying to learn something...

In your opinion,  what would happen if a woman with a sense of entitlement actually ends up with more than she expected?Does her sense of entitlement grow...  or does she finally realise she's the one not worthy and therefore she has to pick her act up and start acting like a decent human being???You're quick to judge men you've never even met - so don't tell us you have not patience for "imaginary stuff"... you CREATE the imaginary stuff... so please just tell us if a woman with a sense of entitlement would ever have enough... or is greed so much a part of their personality that nothing is ever enough?

Be brave - just be honest...  your answer will help many men identify the dangers of dating/marrying certain types of FSUW.

Kuna all my admiration you dig through the deepness of human personality and you express it very well, I think this topic is a one of the less superficial one (considering myself as almost a newbie in RWD) for a long time, and it gives many clues (excepted personnals attacks). it needs time to dig through,

[Donna_Pedro]

Sure, but they will only get a small fraction in rent compared to the Muscovites.

true, but  properties are priced differently there too, right? So why should the rent be the same? Rent depends on people's incomes, cost of property,  and reflects market situation in the area in general. But we are moving away from your original statement - you might not like our attitudes,  but you need to agree that statistically moscovites are  way under-represented in marriage scams.

True, but it could also be said that Muscovites are eating the cake from the rest of Russia as well as they are the ones who will benefit disproportionately from the oil, gas and other resources shipped out of Russia

You are at least 20 years behind. Here, see the list of  top richest guys in Russia. One moscovit there - Prokhorov. The rest are not. So please, please this song that "Moscow eats your portion of  cake" is too old, and nobody believes in it anymore.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2011/0214/Billionaire-as-Russia-s-president-The-5-richest-men-in-Russia/Roman-Abramovich-17.1-billion

[Patagonie]

 Quote from: Patagonie link=topic=14154.msg285904#msg285<blockquote>
 Now if you help your friends to filter liars because an FSU woman mustn't take bigs risks for a non steady guy, whom will not be able in the future to support a woman for a decent life, no problems., i would do the same around me to help any fsu i like.

</blockquote>Quote from: Patagonie on January 04, 2012, 06:16:11 AM<blockquote> In case of visa ,  i think i can avoid to display the whole wage, and probably the same in case of marriage
 
 And of course i will display the information as late as possible (if the one i date don't like the numeral i would put on the document... she would be free to stay at home, not necessary a bad thing, she will filter herself).
 </blockquote>So  you are going to give her false details for her visa application?
 
Quote from: Patagonie on January 03, 2012, 09:57:41 AM<blockquote>Plan A
You can choose two options. Tell her that you come two weeks and if you don't like her or something is wrong you can move to the next big city which is Kharkov.
Plan B
You can do the same and tell her that you come for one week. If you really like her you can say : i really like you and i can change my tickets and stay one week more.
Pat
</blockquote>
Advising someone else to tell a woman a direct lie...
 
Can you please explain these liers the women need to avoid...What exactly are they liying about?   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 I would not disappoint you Ranetka so i'm elaborating my reply. Just, sometimes i need to sleep and to eat.
  First thing : have you ever meet a person, who have never lied in life ? Have ever tell the truth all your life ? If you answer yes .......... it's a lie.
 
 So i think that you are disoriented by my post, one time he ask for the truth, after he advices for a lie, and an other time he want to display half.
 Like in life Ranetka, life is not black, not white, just often is a middle.
 Do you think really that women tell us when we date them, that they need to come back at home because they have a skype session with some suitors.No they prefer to say they need to go because because their mom is a little seek. Do you think that they will tell you that they have a travel scheduled (with an other guy) one week after when you are saying each other priatna paznakomitsa in the entrance of the restaurant ?
 They want to have cards in their hand, and there is nothing wrong, it's dating time, courtship time.
 
 Seriously, about this newbie who will go in Ukraine and want to tell to the Poltava's girl that he will have stay in Kiev one week it's touching but like having a skiing pair of gloves in Krechtchatik in mid-july. 
 
 Go deeper, WHAT will be the first question of the girl ? "Why this guy, if he likes me doesn't come straigtht ahead to see me ? If she has had some dates and some disappointements in the past, she will believe that this guy stops to see others girls, or worse to f... some p.... Finally no lie but counterproductive attitude. Sometimes a litlle lie is a way to take care of others, you are shocking ?
 
 If i'm going to give her false details for her application ?
   First i have specified, it seems to me, in case of. I will not give her false detail, just  one true detail : my income but not my total wage, with the good document, if it's possible i will do.  The officials want to know if you have enough, the purpose is not inform the lady. Ask to D__P for this search. About this D__P you will have some trouble because the CNIL law of the 6th january 1978 highly protects private informations in my country and therefore your search spectrum will be narrow.
 
 
 Last question Ranetka, and i think not the less interesting : Can you please explain these liers the women need to avoid...What exactly are they liying about? 
They usually lies about their job and inflates their position and also their properties. For example a guy who works alone and starts a difficult business will announce that is the CEO of a firm. Normally few questions should solve the problem. Ask with how many employes do he work, when the company had been created, and how many offices are rented for the company and you will have the beginning of the picture. A "clean" man will have not struggle to answer quickly and accurately to these questions and if it's done in the properly manner he will think that you have interest in what he is doing and men really like to speak about their jobs.
For properties it's little more complicated and often irrelevant. and particularly because you can quickly offend him. So do it in the proper way :
 "Do you know that, because i don't know your language/and or because my education will not be recognized (which is unfortunately true most of the time) i will be not NORMALLY be able to work firsts years. Do you think that you can support us during those years, or must i have to get a job as soon as possible. I'm saying this to you because my friend, freshly relocated in USA, said to me the cost premium since she has arrived is something like 1500$ per month. Look his reaction, does he seem uncomfortable ? Needs time to answer ? You will quicly understand if he is prepared or not. I have already explained that to be an owner means nothing. So when a man say to you i own this or this, aks him, "my friend Julia, who lives in Stockolm told me that usually western man have big mortgage on real estate, do you have such one ?"

Ranetka, i'm sorry for all girls who don't know Julia or don't have a friend freshly relocated it will be not possible to know, i'm sorry.


And the best is anyways, and to spend time with him, and to visit him at home. What i can tell you is that the $ numeral of wages and properties, except for big fortunes, is NOT the key for a WHOLE LIFE support.

[OlgaH]

True, but it could also be said that Muscovites are eating the cake from the rest of Russia as well as they are the ones who will benefit disproportionately from the oil, gas and other resources shipped out of Russia 

Misha, question is who does really benefit? an ordinary Moscovite? When it comes to an average the math is simple "Borya ate 10 pies,  Sasha, Kolya, Dasha, Masha ate 0 pies. In average each of them ate 2 pies"

The prices? More than 60% of Moscovites don't see any concrete possibility to improve their housing living conditions, and many Moscovits still rely on the municipal social housing, and there is a long waiting line.

[Muzh]

[mies]

He gets her, her family gets the financial reward. Almost sounds like she's sacrificing herself for the betterment of her family. Even if she isn't, why would anyone marry someone where a monthly stipend to her kith and kin is a mandatory part of the deal?

the story is almost identical to the recent movie: http://www.asiapacificscreenacademy.com/nomsarchive/andrei-zviagintsev/

[happyandstable]

    This whole thread makes me wonder how long would she stay if he turned to the women in question and said “Ok but you’ll have to send $300 to my mom to help with her living expenses to compensate for the loss of money to send to your family”

    I think the sounds of her footsteps could be heard across the pond. Any thoughts anybody?

[Daveman]

    This whole thread makes me wonder how long would she stay if he turned to the women in question and said “Ok but you’ll have to send $300 to my mom to help with her living expenses to compensate for the loss of money to send to your family”

    I think the sounds of her footsteps could be heard across the pond. Any thoughts anybody?

Heh, a man mentioning something like he actually pays his child support for his minor children... can be a terminal relationship condition...