high level of fluency in English?

[ghost of moon goddess]

There is another aspect.

Most Eastern European women who speak fluent English are translators. It means that they won't be able to find similar jobs in foreign countries, especially in the USA.

For example, a Russian bank that works with US companies often hire an interpreter to help a manager who doesn't know English well.

Nothing could be further from the truth!!!

Vincenzo, I guess you've bought the story told you by RW translator on a date ?! 
P.S.
I watch BBC World News, CNN and, by the way,  I am not a translator

[Jumper]

My wife speaks "good" english and has since we first met. I still have to do the same thing most every time she speaks. That is, (1) stop what I am doing (2) let her speak and finish while listening intensely (3) Analyze what she just said and think of possible alternatives of what she may have really meant. 50% of the time, I am wrong even after those steps.

but isn't that the cross most husbands bear, regardless language skills?
 
 
sorry, couldn't resist.
 
 

[Jumper]

LOL
 
Yes Vin,  someone fluent in English, like a translator, would be such a poor choice for most western men in this pursuit.
 
All because her job prospects might not be as good , as most other RW , when relocating right?
 
 
where's that sarcasm font when I need it?
 
 
Just curious, what is your RW going to do for employment when she first arrives Vincenzo?
 
 

[Vincenzo]

Vincenzo, what I understood the OP to mean what that he seeks a woman who could comprehend an English language news broadcast - not one who actually watches one.

He seeks a woman with a very high level of English proficiency.

Actually, understanding news broadcasters is the basic level only. Broadcasters often use simple words and speak perfectly.
Understanding real people is 10 times more difficult. Try to call support and talk to Indians (from India).

[Vincenzo]

LOL
 
Yes Vin,  someone fluent in English, like a translator, would be such a poor choice for most western men in this pursuit.
 
All because her job prospects might not be as good , as most other RW , when relocating right?
 
 
where's that sarcasm font when I need it?

I've met a German woman who was an English teacher in Hamburg.
She could hardly find a job as a receptionist in the USA. She couldn't find a job as a German<->English translator. She said she would try the Internet.
 

[Vincenzo]

Nothing could be further from the truth!!!

Vincenzo, I guess you've bought the story told you by RW translator on a date ?! 
P.S.
I watch BBC World News, CNN and, by the way,  I am not a translator

You'll be a good and smart wife! Very few Ukrainian ladies spend time learning foreign languages. I'm sure you're in high demand.

I hope you're not a psychologist.

[Manny]

Just wondering if there were a lot of FSU that could speak English at a really high level?  I've lived abroad before and dated women who didn't speak English that great- and it was frustrating.  By high level, I mean watching the news and knowing what's being said.  For you guys married to a FSU woman, did their English improve quite a bit once they moved to the U.S.?  I know this is kind of a vague question, but I'm just looking for people's thoughts...

My wife was probably a 2/5 in English when I met her. She booked herself some extra lessons as soon as we got serious, and living in the UK made her learn very fast indeed. She also had to learn American English as so much of our media is from the US.

Later she started doing translation work, three way calls and the like. If a woman is motivated, and doesn't immerse herself in Russian media after relocation ( a common mistake many men facilitate to make her feel "at home"), it can be done.

[Misha]

Very few Ukrainian ladies spend time learning foreign languages.

On what exactly are you basing this nugget of knowledge    There are plenty of Ukrainian women and Russian and many others in the FSU learning foreign languages, and not only those who want to be translators...

I hope you're not a psychologist.

What is this weird obsession you have with putting down psychologists?!?

[Misha]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if there were a lot of FSU that could speak English at a really high level?  I've lived abroad before and dated women who didn't speak English that great- and it was frustrating.  By high level, I mean watching the news and knowing what's being said.  For you guys married to a FSU woman, did their English improve quite a bit once they moved to the U.S.?  I know this is kind of a vague question, but I'm just looking for people's thoughts...

As I have stated elsewhere, my wife knew zero English when she arrived in Canada (I speak Russian). She had a job working with children with children two years after arriving and is now capable of watching television and having a normal conversation. She still makes some mistakes when speaking. I would guess that it will take her another three to five years to be able to write fluently in English and to  be able to pursue full-time studies at a college or university in English.

[Faux Pas]

but isn't that the cross most husbands bear, regardless language skills?
 
 
sorry, couldn't resist.

Indeed!    But void the ability to use "I did what you asked" as an excuse because of the language breakdown

[Jumper]

I've met a German woman who was an English teacher in Hamburg.
She could hardly find a job as a receptionist in the USA. She couldn't find a job as a German<->English translator. She said she would try the Internet.

One example!
 But ok, i'll play along. and assume this one example is representative of the general situation most translators would face.
 
How are her prospects any worse ,
than a  German woman in the USA, who has  no , or little, English skills?
 
 That is what you are comparing to the average RW situation,or the women most western men will meet.
 
How would the RW /English translator, on AVERAGE ,
be in a less employable position initially on relocation to the west,
 than RW with average backgrounds and the average English abilty?
 
Your  whole presumption that a RW with fluency in English , is somehow at a disadvantage to the average RW that a western man in this process will likely meet..
is flawed.
 
She's initially ahead on the employment front, and way ahead on the relationship front.
 
 Add in the much more important relationship aspect,
 since most men hopefully  value being able to communicate easily and clearly , 
over some projected  possible career opportunities..
 
 
There arn't many RW truly English fluent, but those that are sure shouldn't be avoided because they might not transfer job skills.
 

[Faux Pas]

Later she started doing translation work, three way calls and the like. If a woman is motivated, and doesn't immerse herself in Russian media after relocation ( a common mistake many men facilitate to make her feel "at home"), it can be done.

Granted your wife is apparently years ahead of mine in assimilation but, I have no qualms that she doesn't totally immerse. Yes it may slow her progress in being a converted AW but, I don't really view that as a negative. I am the one that insisted on Russian TV channels and her regular contact with her family and friends. I don't view it as a mistake

[Misha]

How would the RW /English translator, on AVERAGE , be in a less employable position initially on relocation to the west, than RW with average backgrounds and the average English ability?

It seems (if I understand correctly) that Vince believes that men should only date computer programmers who will be able to get jobs immediately upon their arrival to their new country   

[SANDRO43]

How are her prospects any worse, than a German woman in the USA, who has  no , or little, English skills?

A French woman would have been a more cogent example, English is a Germanic language after all and transitions between cognate languages are easier .

[Vaughn]

The topic's author wants a woman who watches English news.

Vincenzo, you cannot make your statement above, once it's been quoted, simply "go away" by modifying or deleting it. Hours later, you switch gears and claim the following:
 

Actually, understanding news broadcasters is the basic level only. Broadcasters often use simple words and speak perfectly.

So which is it?
 
Dude, it seems clear to me that you bob and weave with the best of defensive spar partners and avoid 1) backing your claims with fact, and 2) answering direct questions by offering outrageous examples that barely address the real issue or topic at hand (such as the 10-fold difficulty in speaking with a customer service rep in Calcutta, or from some weeks ago, insinuating that a westbound FSU woman psychologist is certainly destined for a life of menial labor.
 

  But ok, i'll play along.
 

That's what Vincenzo wants, Jumper ~ for everyone to play along. As far as men needing a stage to spout off their opinion and call it gospel, this guy's just the newest kid on the RWD block.
 
 

[Gator]

 
That's what Vincenzo wants, Jumper ~ for everyone to play along. As far as men needing a stage to spout off their opinion and call it gospel, this guy's just the newest kid on the RWD block.

I guess by "kid" you mean "newest kid with a big mouth"  as opposed to The Eagles' Grammy award winning "New Kid in Town."   To me Vincenzo seems as fickled as the Johnny Come Lately in that song who loses "her" to the "new kid in town."
 
Not to be confused  with the several new members at RWD who make respectable, intelligent posts. 

[Vincenzo]

Vincenzo, you cannot make your statement above, once it's been quoted, simply "go away" by modifying or deleting it. Hours later, you switch gears and claim the following:
 
So which is it?

I don't see any inconsistencies.
A news broadcaster usually speaks the best English possible: no accent, slow and comprehensible.
Check the news on Voice of America: http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/

Now check if you can understand this perfect English:
"Horror, every bloody."

[ghost of moon goddess]

... Very few Ukrainian ladies spend time learning foreign languages.

I hope you're not a psychologist.

Normally when I see some baseless statements spoken in all seriousness it makes me laugh. But not this time. Vincenzo, you make me believe that you pose a big threat of unknown expectations 
(said to urge you to seriously reconsider your position on dating RW Psychologists) 
Hey! You will enjoy being analyzed and inspired to see different aspects of yourself which you may never have considered. I promise. 
Also, for your information: when applying for jobs at (more or less) successful organizations, not to mention Banks and representatives of foreign companies, the very first item in "Qualifications Required" is as follows:
The successful candidate should have good or (in most cases) excellent  knowledge of the English language!

And there is a very strong competition among candidates.

And the percentage of women candidates is very high. 

[Manny]

Granted your wife is apparently years ahead of mine in assimilation but, I have no qualms that she doesn't totally immerse. Yes it may slow her progress in being a converted AW but, I don't really view that as a negative. I am the one that insisted on Russian TV channels and her regular contact with her family and friends. I don't view it as a mistake

No arguments with the family and friends stuff. I'll quote you from our book rather than try to paraphrase myself.

It is easy to go too far with sourcing Russian things for her; there comes a point when it will start to make her homesick. Many men make the mistake of subscribing to Russian TV channels, newspapers and magazines and any Russian language media they can obtain. They seem to recreate a mini-Russia in their house. That is going too far. It does not help her to learn English; it does not help adaptation and it will not offer anything beneficial to your marriage. She has her friends and parents at the end of the phone, radio streams in Russian are available free on the internet, together with the odd Russian newspaper and DVD mentioned above and some familiar foodstuffs. That is enough. 24/7 Moscow Channel One television by satellite is unnecessary.

In hindsight, my wife was very glad that she was thrown in the metaphorical deep end with language and assimilation. If I had arranged TV and a plethora of other media, she may have spent much of the day watching that pining for home. I have seen many mens wives do the same, and a lot of married guys I know share my views on that. I know quite a few that have suffered because of it.

In my view, having taken the decision to move abroad with a new husband, becoming English fluent should be very high priority. Anything that discourages that or hinders progress in that regard is a negative thing.

[Chicagoguy]

In hindsight, my wife was very glad that she was thrown in the metaphorical deep end with language and assimilation. If I had arranged TV and a plethora of other media, she may have spent much of the day watching that pining for home. I have seen many mens wives do the same, and a lot of married guys I know share my views on that. I know quite a few that have suffered because of it.

In my view, having taken the decision to move abroad with a new husband, becoming English fluent should be very high priority. Anything that discourages that or hinders progress in that regard is a negative thing.

Agree 100 %

[Muzh]

When I am in Russia I watch the news in Russian and I am not a translator. What exactly is your point?!?

LMFAO
 
You should repeat that one more time. Maybe it will register with him.

[mendeleyev]

Using the term "fluency" with someone who have never lived/experienced a language is a mistake in my view. So many things can't be translated in real terms just from a great University or excellent texts.

That being said, TV news reminds me of this funny story (Muzh will love this one!) told by Russian comedian Yakov Smirnoff:

Upon arrival from the CCCP to New York Yakov was determined to learn English as quickly as possible. He reasoned that the easiest way to do so was to watch TV round the clock, full language immersion style.

So he turned on the TV in his apartment living room. He turned on the TV in his bedroom. He also turned on the TV in the kitchen. Even in the bathroom he left the door open so he could see the bedroom TV.

For several weeks he watched and listened. No matter which room, he was constantly absorbed in the task of learning English by immersion. The only breaks he took was for shopping but quickly he'd return home where the TVs were still on.

He even slept with the bedroom TV "on" all night, watching lip movement, listening to the way sounds were formed, analyzing facial expressions, and practicing what he'd learned out loud.

One day a Russian friend knocked on his door. Yakov invited his friend into the apartment where his friend discovered that Yakov had a TV blaring at full volume in every room.

"Yakov, why do you have all the TV sets in your apartment playing?" his friend asked. "This is much electricity and you must pay for it. It is so big money, Yakov" his friend admonished.

Ah, you see, I am learning English by immersion, Yakov replied. In every room I learn and practice English.

"Oh, I understand," said his friend. "Well Yakov, if you wish to learn English it is perhaps a good idea. But first you must change the channels from the Spanish stations."

[Faux Pas]

No arguments with the family and friends stuff. I'll quote you from our book rather than try to paraphrase myself.

In hindsight, my wife was very glad that she was thrown in the metaphorical deep end with language and assimilation. If I had arranged TV and a plethora of other media, she may have spent much of the day watching that pining for home. I have seen many mens wives do the same, and a lot of married guys I know share my views on that. I know quite a few that have suffered because of it.

In my view, having taken the decision to move abroad with a new husband, becoming English fluent should be very high priority. Anything that discourages that or hinders progress in that regard is a negative thing.

On it's face your excerpt appears to be solid advice and may very well be for the large majority. For me (speaking for my wife) I wanted her experience to be as less pressure packed as possible. She is immersed into the western culture and english language even with these extra Russian info sources. I haven't built a wall of Russia around her at all but, I haven't shied away from anything I felt might help her in transition.


IMO, most anyone is going to experience home sickness after leaving all they have known. Quite natural and expected. In fact I would guess she didn't watch the Russian channels a dozen times over the first year she was here. She did however have the option and I think that was a comfort to her.

[Vincenzo]

Normally when I see some baseless statements spoken in all seriousness it makes me laugh.
Also, for your information: when applying for jobs at (more or less) successful organizations, not to mention Banks and representatives of foreign companies, the very first item in "Qualifications Required" is as follows:
The successful candidate should have good or (in most cases) excellent  knowledge of the English language!

Do you want to say that most Ukrainians speak in English fluently? I didn't notice it.

[chivo]

I would rate the percentage of fluent speakers as far less than 1% of the population.

This is about right from my experience. I'm talking fluent enough to watch a movie and know maybe 75% of what was being said.
 
I probably know, yes actually know over 4000 people in Moscow who speak English. And by knowing them, I mean if you mentioned my name to them, they would be able to describe me to a tee and I them, that's how well we know each other (and to answer acctbill's question from another thread, about 90% of them are under 30). I have spoken to about another 3-400 who wouldn't know me from the next guy, but I know they do speak English. This is my experience.
 
 

Perhaps 5% can speak some English. But, it could also vary by city, town, etc.

I would say more percentage wise, but yes it still varies by city, etc.
 
In Moscow I would put that percentage at about 10%, but it's hard to quantify. 
 
I also believe that your woman doesn't necessarily have to be that fluent in order for you to have a decent relationship with enough communication to sustain it.