Realistic Expectations

[Muzh]

If love did not come?  I would have a nice, stable, dependable person to live with, excellent father to my child and, lets not forget -  a fairly comfortable life style.

Either you think the man is oblivious to his feelings and fell for Madison Ave's concept of American men (i.e. idiot) or you are absolutely positive you can control him.

There is one more but I'd rather keep mum since it would be too vulgar and I try to show respect to all women.

[Donna_Pedro]

What kind of love you are talking about in your posts? What is love in your own definition?

A definition of love in two sentences?  Nah, not going to happen. But, you can check works of world classical literature. There are definitions there. More than one.  All valid.  While you are at it, check this one out “Таня, в эти лета мы не слыхали про любовь». What used to happen in “эти лета” was “my daddy negotiated a deal” and then “(не помню).. косы расплели и с плачем в церковь повели”.  And how did it all end up? “Мой Ваня, моложе был меня, МОЙ СВЕТ». Oops.. She was supposed to be unhappy, but instead what we see here is clearly words of love. Curious, isn’t it? And a symbol of high morality of a Russian woman, a noble-born Tatiana Larina married the same way her old slave nanny did some 50 years before her – mommy had negotiated a deal.  Dreadful thought, isn’t it? A symbol of morality, generations of RW were supposed to live up to… married without love.  Как говорится – либо трусы одень, либо крест сними.  This is not half as funny, as the stories you read on russianfiancey.com. “I love him so much. Well, we need a translator to talk, but all the same – we are in love”. It makes me sick to my stomach.  I would never lift a finger to help a person who says “I am looking for love”. I can help a helpless person, who asks for an advice, but I cannot help an idiot.  As for box #1. Don’t remember where I heard this – “If you want to fall in love with a prince, hang out where princes do”.  Box #1 is merely the FIRST important step, not the ONLY one.  If #1 checks out, proceed to checking other important boxes. If it doesn’t – I would not bother even to look any further. But checking #1 does not automatically qualify a man to be a good husband material. It merely gives him a chance.  Please, let it be the last time I explain all this..

[Donna_Pedro]

Either you think the man is oblivious to his feelings and have fell for Madison Ave's concept of American men (i.e. idiot) or you are absolutely positive you can control him.

Well, I am not forcing a person to date me or marry me. If he agrees to marry willingly on these conditions - why not? I  pick men who agree with my concept of marriage. Stable, down to earth, dependable, capable. Those who are searching for "heavenly love" are not my marriage material. When I was looking and heard from men crap about searching for love, it was a signal for me to haul arse. I am not the type to hold hands on a beach watching a sunset. I am very down to earth myself. Btw, a man is free to check his boxes too, whatever they might be.

[OlgaH]

A definition of love in two sentences?  Nah, not going to happen. But, you can check works of world classical literature. There are definitions there. More than one.  All valid. 

I don't need too, and I gave my definition of love, but if it is too problematic for you to give your own understanding of love, I can understand it.

This is not half as funny, as the stories you read on russianfiancey.com. “I love him so much. Well, we need a translator to talk, but all the same – we are in love”. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Absolutely agree.

I would never lift a finger to help a person who says “I am looking for love”. I can help a helpless person, who asks for an advice, but I cannot help an idiot.  As for box #1. Don’t remember where I heard this – “If you want to fall in love with a prince, hang out where princes do”.  Box #1 is merely the FIRST important step, not the ONLY one.  If #1 checks out, proceed to checking other important boxes. If it doesn’t – I would not bother even to look any further. But checking #1 does not automatically qualify a man to be a good husband material. It merely gives him a chance.  Please, let it be the last time I explain all this..

The Box1, a secured material comfort is works for you, that's fine. But it will not work for me. My Box1 is my partner's and my mental, comfort in our marriage, an inner bond that will hold us together, that's why it was more important to me to know everything about my partner: his interests, habits, personality,  his profession, social surroundings, with whom and how he associates and so on first.

Just a few examples. He could be a nice guy, reliable, stable and so on, but if he is passionate about football,  fishing, hunting, rodeo, mud fest, I don't think we will do well together, as my interests are very different, and I need a partner who would love museums, theaters, travelling, and would rather climb the Mayan pyramids, enjoy local food or fine dining,  or wander around a museum enjoying arts or science, than to spend hours at the stadium or in a sport bar. To me it is very important to have and enjoy fun together. I like when a man enjoys being dressed nice: suits, ties, hats, but I don't want to force him to do so, if he feels more comfortable going out in his baseball cap, t-shirt and khaki shorts. I don't want a partner who I need to remodel to my taste, and I don't need a partner who would try to remodel me. I have my particular life style and I need a partner who would share the same life style, without forcing each other.

That's why knowing each other I put first. I have to feel my and his inner comfort living under one roof and sharing our life.

[Misha]

I would never lift a finger to help a person who says “I am looking for love”. I can help a helpless person, who asks for an advice, but I cannot help an idiot. 

This is the central problem with what you are posting. If you were to say, "I believe that it is best not to seek love" that would be perfectly acceptable. However, you keep stating that those who do not share your point of view are idiots.

[Muzh]

Well, I am not forcing a person to date me or marry me. If he agrees to marry willingly on these conditions - why not? I  pick men who agree with my concept of marriage. Stable, down to earth, dependable, capable. Those who are searching for "heavenly love" are not my marriage material. When I was looking and heard from men crap about searching for love, it was a signal for me to haul arse. I am not the type to hold hands on a beach watching a sunset. I am very down to earth myself. Btw, a man is free to check his boxes too, whatever they might be.

I don't know about you but men who agree to "your" conditions they want something in return. On demand.

[Muzh]

This is the central problem with what you are posting. If you were to say, "I believe that it is best not to seek love" that would be perfectly acceptable. However, you keep stating that those who do not share your point of view are idiots.

Misha, that's okay. (Here's one for D_P for her to gag) I remember when my wife and I were in the process of knowing each other, I explained to her that I'm a romantic fool. She loved that.

Now, pass the bucket.

[Donna_Pedro]

This is the central problem with what you are posting. If you were to say, "I believe that it is best not to seek love" that would be perfectly acceptable. However, you keep stating that those who do not share your point of view are idiots.

 I am not going to drag through all 16 pages to bring in quotes of how many times I was told that women like myself need to be avoided. And if your skin is that thin - do not read my comments. Ignore me. You would sleep better. I am not going to sugar coat it for you.

[Donna_Pedro]

I don't know about you but men who agree to "your" conditions they want something in return. On demand.

I do not know about "on demand part", but generally - yes. Men check their own boxes. The main part here is - full transperancy of intentions from both sides.  Here is how it is - take it or leave it.

[Donna_Pedro]

That's why knowing each other I put first. I have to feel my and his inner comfort living under one roof and sharing our life.

Material comfort and inner comfort can come together. You know it, right? One does not cancel another. You can create a pool of men, capable of providing material comfort and then look for those, who would fit your "inner comfort" box  among them.

[Misha]

 I am not going to drag through all 16 pages to bring in quotes of how many times I was told that women like myself need to be avoided. And if your skin is that thin - do not read my comments. Ignore me. You would sleep better. I am not going to sugar coat it for you.

I am simply pointing out the contradiction: you keep asserting that we must respect your choices, yet you dont reciprocate. Who is asking you sugar coat anything?

[OlgaH]

Material comfort and inner comfort can come together. You know it, right? One does not cancel another. You can create a pool of men, capable of providing material comfort and then look for those, who would fit your "inner comfort" box  among them.

Such approach "money first" works for you, and as I said that's fine. I prefer different approach. But if a woman desperate and not capable to figure out during the process of knowing each other her and her partner's inner compatibility without which there is no material comfort she probably will take your advice. 

[BC]

Such approach "money first" works for you, and as I said that's fine. I prefer different approach. But if a woman desperate and not capable to figure out during the process of knowing each other her and her partner's inner compatibility without which there is no material comfort she probably will take your advice. 

Isn't it a good idea for a woman to not be desperate? Or for a man not to chase a desperate woman?

I once imagined myself sitting on the steps of a Moscow subway with maybe a guitar and the case empty except for a few coins.

Would my prospective future wife fall in love with me, drop in a coin or just walk by?

Would I consider a woman walking up the steps of the subway desperate?

[OlgaH]

Isn't it a good idea for a woman to not be desperate? Or for a man not to chase a desperate woman?

I once imagined myself sitting on the steps of a Moscow subway with maybe a guitar and the case empty except for a few coins.

Would my prospective future wife fall in love with me, drop in a coin or just walk by?

Would I consider a woman walking up the steps of the subway desperate?

BC, my point is people who have inner compatibility are more likely to share the same material comfort compatibility, the same life style. 

Sometimes I stop by and drop coins for a subway guitar player.  I also remember how my husband and I were dancing in subway 

[BC]

BC, my point is people who have inner compatibility are more likely to share the same material comfort compatibility, the same life style. 

Olga,

your statement seems to indicate a peer to peer relationship, which is certainly not the norm in the AM/RW arena.

Really such relationships are lucky to have anything at all in common. - but of course there are exceptions....  but heck this whole FSUW thing thrives on the exception.

btw... thanks for the quarter. 

[OlgaH]

btw... thanks for the quarter. 

you are welcome

[BC]

you are welcome

I'm sure they deserve it more..... 

[SANDRO43]

Those metro buskers must be students from an Academy of Music .

[OlgaH]

I'm sure they deserve it more..... 

 

There was a young couple of music college students among my neighbors. They were studying and earning money by giving music lessons, playing at the parties, and in the summer time they played in the city park with a hat for coins and for pleasure, and there always was a crowd around them.  Now they have two children, they both have stable work as music teachers in the college, and  they still don't mind to play time to time in the park with their friends.

[OlgaH]

Those metro buskers must be students from an Academy of Music .

I think there a lot of them.

[OlgaH]

Olga,

your statement seems to indicate a peer to peer relationship, which is certainly not the norm in the AM/RW arena.

Really such relationships are lucky to have anything at all in common. - but of course there are exceptions....  but heck this whole FSUW thing thrives on the exception.

I look at such marriages as absolutely normal marriages where people have more to share in common.

I did treat my international dating actually in the same way as my local dating with a thought that men are men anywhere with their own merits and demerits 

[Muzh]

I do not know about "on demand part", but generally - yes. Men check their own boxes. The main part here is - full transperancy of intentions from both sides.  Here is how it is - take it or leave it.

I guess you don't know men psyche very well. His transparency will show eventually, when he doesn't get his on demand. I promise you many guys here will agree on this.

My point is, you get into a business transaction, you better deliver or next.

However, when you become irrational (i.e., fall in love) during such transaction you have room to develop your contract because leeway was given from the very beginning.

[jeff9556]

Olga,

your statement seems to indicate a peer to peer relationship, which is certainly not the norm in the AM/RW arena.

Really such relationships are lucky to have anything at all in common. - but of course there are exceptions....  but heck this whole FSUW thing thrives on the exception.

This is quite surprising indeed. I can't imagine marrying or even dating someone I had nothing in common with, it just doesn't compute in my brain as being tenable. What a difficult place to start from.

[Eduard]

Isn't it a good idea for a woman to not be desperate? Or for a man not to chase a desperate woman?

I once imagined myself sitting on the steps of a Moscow subway with maybe a guitar and the case empty except for a few coins.

Would my prospective future wife fall in love with me, drop in a coin or just walk by?

Would I consider a woman walking up the steps of the subway desperate?

If you look nice and clean, have nice clothes and basically don't look like a bum, she may not only drop a coin in your case but might offer to make you dinner at her place, who knows!?   

[Gator]

I guess you don't know men psyche very well. His transparency will show eventually, when he doesn't get his on demand. I promise you many guys here will agree on this.

My point is, you get into a business transaction, you better deliver or next.

I disagree.  I had the patience to wait until the second date.  Even a third date if she were a "9" or "10."   

However, when you become irrational (i.e., fall in love) during such transaction you have room to develop your contract because leeway was given from the very beginning.

A very profound statement.   I like it.   It reflects a logical view of an emotional feeling.  I did not expect such logic from an admitted "hopeless romantic" who knows how to do over 10 different Latin dances.   

I agree that love is irrational (based on instincts) and not rational (based on data and analysis).   Nevertheless, I am inclined to believe that most RW experiencing the intuitive reaction called love have already factored into their internal equation some subconscious data that suggests the man is not penniless.

I also assert that DP gave much leeway in the beginning because she had limited data.   

Do you use the word "contract" as if it were definitive?  I learned in my marriages that any agreement is renegotiable on a frequent basis.  Things change.