Summer time trip to the Ukraine?

[Kapitanleutnant]

Gents....


Looking for some thoughts on a summer trip to somewhere in UA... July of this year for about 2 weeks.   Reason I'm looking for some opinion is:   I recall one one of my friends went to Kiev about 9 years ago during the middle of summer and much to his dismay...  many of the girls he was hoping to meet were not in town and on holiday vacation!   Needless to say he was pretty disappointed.


Can you guys offer some advice on this?   I'm had planned on going to Odessa for no other reason that I've wanted to see it for a number of years.


My plan for now is to use one of the local agencies thru Loveme.com (I know... you guys hate this method) just for meeting the woman I see in their website.   I'm planning to contact them to with a list of women I'd like to be introduced to and see if they can offer some insight as to her availability during July (or any summer time months for that matter).


Also, I'm certainly open to suggestions for a better city to go to for 2 weeks eg, should a first timer to UA go to Kiev etc?   I've traveled the world extensively and have gone on an agency tour in the mid 90's to Moscow and to be honest, it was the trip of the lifetime.   We all had a ball there.   


Thanks for the suggestions and expertise from everyone


Kap

[Turboguy]

August is the tradiional vacation month and the month to avoid.  July should not be too bad.  Since you are going to meet women you have lined up on "LoveMe" it probably won't make much difference when you go since the women you want to meet are probably not real and don't know who you are anyway.  Odessa is a beautiful city but for meeting women it is probably the last choice I would make.  A high percentage of the women there are just looking for someone to take them to expensive restaurants and buy them gifts as well.  All I can say is take lots and lots of money and don't get your hopes up.   I know this is not what you want to hear but I would not be able to sleep at night if I lied to you about the chances.

[JR]

I know a local there who may be able to do some translating, run some ads, screening or other such stuff, if you're intersted give me a PM. Though she tends to do what most do and leave for vacation in the summer ))

[Kapitanleutnant]

Turboguy...


I appreciate your "tough love" approach very much.   Is it really that bad doing it the way I'm thinking of?   Is EM going to be any better (lesser of the evils) in this regard?   I've known guys to set up appointments on the freepersonal.ru sights, which I'm a member, but seemingly have a high no show rate which is why I considered the EM or AFA approach.


City wise, maybe one of the lesser traveled cities like Poltava or Kharkov... Dnepropotrovsk?   A little harder to get to and is it worth the risk and reward thing do you think?


An honest question...  Why do you think the agency approach has women who are not real?   First hand experience or just what you've heard?   Not second guessing but rather just looking for confirmation....   Thanks


Kap

[ML]

Kap, as a preface to what I write below, let me say that I have arranged meetings with over a hundred women from the websites below including freepersonals.ru.

I have never had a single 'no-show.'

= = = = = = = = = = =

Now, here is my standard advice:

You need to take the course: Pursuing FSUW 101.  Below are the basics.

First, avoid all agencies and any websites that require pay per contacting each woman and/or pay per each letter.

Second, go to these websites:

http://singles.ru/
http://www.luckylovers.net/
http://www.rbrides.com/
http://www.ukrainedate.com/
http://www.allsinglerussiangirls.com/
http://freepersonals.ru/
http://bride.ru/
http://fdating.com
http://www.1vipdating.com/
http://freeukrainianwomen.com/
http://okfreedating.net/
http://luckylifepartner.com/
http://www.weblovefinder.com/

The below are in Russian language.
 
 http://www.edarling.ru/
 http://vmireznakomstv.ru/
 http://www.your-ideal.com/
 http://www.24open.ru/
 http://loveplanet.ru/
 http://www.maybe.ru/
 http://znakomstva-sitelove.ru/

Go to the above free and monthly cost ($19-30) dating websites.  Make up a nice profile of yourself.  Use the search engines to find about 800 - 1,000 women who are in the age range you want and have the education, height, weight, language, children, drinking, smoking, etc., parameters that you desire and are in a single target geographical area.

Do this screening first rather than look at pictures first.  After you have done the screening; then look at the pictures.

When you are two months away from your trip departure time, then start sending out your first message.

Send a generic but well written introductory message to all with each individual name typed at the top.

Of those  who reply, filter out all who make you worry in any way or give you concerns.

Send second generic but well written letter to all with their individual names typed at the top.  Modify it a bit to answer any questions that an individual woman may have asked.  Yes, this takes a lot of time.

Repeat these procedures over about 6-8 weekly emails and you will have narrowed down your list to 15-30 gals.  You can continue to use a generic letter for each successive mailing, but be sure to modify it a bit to answer specific questions any gal may have asked and to ask specific questions of your own related to the family, interests, jobs, etc., of each individual woman.  Yes, this takes a lot of time, but each week you will be cutting your list down. 

Finalize your trip plans and start scheduling the women into time slots.

If you follow the above procedure, you will not have the need to ask us questions about scammers, etc., as you will have filtered out all scammers.  And if any of the women you are writing to give you any sheeeeet or cause you any concern at all, or ask for money for ANYTHING you simply drop them off your lists and continue on.

[ML]

Odessa is a beautiful city but for meeting women it is probably the last choice I would make.

I second Turbo.

I would recommend all cities in Ukraine . . . except Odesa.

[Kapitanleutnant]

ML


Thanks for your input here.   


Just so I understand.... are you saying to write the same letter to say, 25 girls all at once as in having 25 names in the "TO" section of the email so they know up front that I"m writing to all of the others?   If so... interesting concept!!   


Thanks


Kap

[ghost of moon goddess]

ML


Thanks for your input here.   


Just so I understand.... are you saying to write the same letter to say, 25 girls all at once as in having 25 names in the "TO" section of the email so they know up front that I"m writing to all of the others?   If so... interesting concept!!   


Thanks


Kap

Honesty is the best approach to RW !

[ghost of moon goddess]

Also, avoid writing letters to young hotties,  of course, if you're vulnerable to the power of their beauty.
I know some men with holes burned in their minds got as the result of pursuing  young RW beauties. Not sure that all of those men  realize it though. 

[Turboguy]

Turboguy...


I appreciate your "tough love" approach very much.   Is it really that bad doing it the way I'm thinking of?   Is EM going to be any better (lesser of the evils) in this regard?   I've known guys to set up appointments on the freepersonal.ru sights, which I'm a member, but seemingly have a high no show rate which is why I considered the EM or AFA approach.

City wise, maybe one of the lesser traveled cities like Poltava or Kharkov... Dnepropotrovsk?   A little harder to get to and is it worth the risk and reward thing do you think?

An honest question...  Why do you think the agency approach has women who are not real?   First hand experience or just what you've heard?   Not second guessing but rather just looking for confirmation....   Thanks

Kap

When you say the EM or AFA approach those are two far different approaches.   AFA and LoveMe are similar approaches,   Sites where you pay by the letter and correspond with employees paid to write letters and correspond with me using fake identities.  EM is a site where you most often write to the real women.
 
Most any site where you don't pay by the letter is fine.  With EM you don't pay by the letter.   Stay away from any that you do pay by the letter.
 
Any place is better than Odessa.

[Kapitanleutnant]

EM is a pay per letter.... as in you use credits to send or read one.   At the end of the day, is it not like AFA in that you "Pay per Letter"?   


K

[LAman]

  Quote from: Turboguy on January 21, 2012, 09:19:24 AM <blockquote>Odessa is a beautiful city but for meeting women it is probably the last choice I would make.
</blockquote> 
 
I second Turbo.

I would recommend all cities in Ukraine . . . except Odesa.

How funny......in summer, guess where the girls from many other cities in ukraine got to for fun on holidays....Odessa...or crimea.....
What wrong guys.....scared of being around some exceptional looking women in short skirts and heels???? Guess you have to leave them for some rational, sensible thinking guys like my self.....

[Anotherkiwi]

EM is a pay per letter.... as in you use credits to send or read one.   At the end of the day, is it not like AFA in that you "Pay per Letter"?

If you have a standard Gold membership at Elena's Models you receive 50 credits.  To write to someone, or to reply to an initial letter, takes one credit.  Any subsequent correspondence with that person is free, unedited and unmoderated and, best of all, directly between yourselves (apart from the occasional woman who receives mail through her local agency).  How you can compare that with any site where you either pay up to $8 or use credits at a rate of anywhere between 2 and 20 per letter is beyond me.

[celluloidheros]

How funny......in summer, guess where the girls from many other cities in ukraine got to for fun on holidays....Odessa...or crimea.....
What wrong guys.....scared of being around some exceptional looking women in short skirts and heels???? Guess you have to leave them for some rational, sensible thinking guys like my self.....

I was going to ask the same thing, if all the girls are on holiday in August, well where do they go and wouldn't it be a good place to also go ?  Or if they have time off in August, would there be  way to see them during this month as they have time away from work ?   

[alex330]

How funny......in summer, guess where the girls from many other cities in ukraine got to for fun on holidays....Odessa...or crimea.....
What wrong guys.....scared of being around some exceptional looking women in short skirts and heels???? Guess you have to leave them for some rational, sensible thinking guys like my self.....

I second that. Odessa is one of the largest cities in Ukraine and the population doubles or triples in size during the summer months.
Plus, "Adisitkas" (sp?) are known to be the most beautiful women in Ukraine.

If you go just be careful with the agency girls as there are many scammers and pro daters in the city. Probably why the guys are steering you away from Odessa.

[ML]

Just so I understand.... are you saying to write the same letter to say, 25 girls all at once as in having 25 names in the "TO" section of the email so they know up front that I"m writing to all of the others?   If so... interesting concept!!

Yes, that would be an interesting concept, but a stupid action.

As mentioned by GMG, RW like honesty . . . but if you did such they would like your honesty but refuse to continue correspondence with you or meet with you.

On the other hand, another RW (not a frequent poster as I  recall) recently posted here that the searching RW were writing to multiple men and it would be naive of the men to not be doing the same.

Don't ask, don't tell.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Anotherkiwi..


I didn't realize the follow-on letters were no charge to your credits!   Excellent!  Thanks! 


K

[ML]

How funny......in summer, guess where the girls from many other cities in ukraine got to for fun on holidays....Odessa...or crimea.....
What wrong guys.....scared of being around some exceptional looking women in short skirts and heels???? Guess you have to leave them for some rational, sensible thinking guys like my self.....

Yes indeed; if you want to treat this like a Spring break trip to Florida (and get the same result) then best to you.

But then remember that Turbo and I are sort of new at this, having only been going to FSU for 10 years or more (40 + trips for me).

[Hammer2722]

I agree with TG and ML. If your looking for a city to party in, then by all means, go to Odessa. If you are looking for a LTR/future wife, look elsewhere.

[Jack]

ML, just curious, when did you make your first trip to Russia and first trip to Ukraine?

[ghost of moon goddess]

Plus, "Adisitkas" (sp?) are known to be the most beautiful women in Ukraine.

It's true. The most beautiful UW come from the Odessa region - the best proven gene pool over centuries of international trading 

[Hammer2722]

It's true. The most beautiful UW come from the Odessa region - the best proven gene pool over centuries of international trading 

Can't argue with that statement!!! LOL

[calmissile]

Kapitanleutnant ,
You are at the point of many of us before our first trip to Ukraine. There are many approaches to dating methods and I hesitate to argue that any of them are better than others. They all seem to work for some people. I can only offer advice on the one that worked for me which also works for some others.  Which approach you use depends a lot on your personality and comfort zone, as well as where you live.  For Americans and Canadians, the expense of the trip and limited vacation time causes many of us to refine our selections before actually making the expensive trip.

Whether you choose to Write Many, Visit Many, Visit One, etc. is up to you.  Most of the posts as well as personal experience tells me that women that are serious about you will not like it if she knows that you are not coming only to see her. There are arguments aplenty about this topic and I will leave it to you to read the forum posts and decide for yourself.
As I mentioned above, this is what worked for me..

Use the great advice from ML to meet your gals on line and make contact with them.
If you are from the US or Canada and cannot pop over to Ukraine for a weekend, you might want to use our methods of downselecting your list and delvelop your relationship best you can via Skype.  It is the closest thing to being with her without actually being there. Over a period of months you can get a very good feel about the chemistry and personality of each other.  There is another advantage.... If she is truly into you, she will make the effort to be in communication with you on a frequent basis.  There are a lot of women that are similar to our 'keyboard romeos' that are not serious and just are out flirting and having a good time, but have no serious intentions.  Skype is not a perfect answer but does help to narrow the field.

I have not been to Odessa, however there are some men that are semi-resident there and think it is the greatest place on earth.  I have been to Kiev, Cherkassy, Primorsk, Berdyansk, Mariupol, and Zaporizhzya.  It also depends on what you are looking for.  Are you looking for a big city party girl or are you looking for a girl from a more rural area?  If you are going with the intent of doing an interview process, you probably would want to stick to the large cities.  If you are looking for a country/rural girl, then you need to pay attention to the cities they live in and look them up on a map.  One disadvantage to meeting a rural girl in a small village is that if it does not work out, you don't have the freedom to meet others as easily as in the big cities.

One thing I would suggest, everything else being equal, I would choose a women that at least has intermediate skills at the English language.  From personal experience I can tell you that even with electronic translators and human translators (part time), the amount of misunderstandings and hard feelings can be monumental.

Regardless of the approach you use, my choice of geography in Ukraine for summer is the Black Sea or Sea of Azov.  The women swarm to the beaches and the night life is decent in most of them.  The Crimea is also a popular spot for summer fun although I only flew into there and did not spend time there.

After you digest all the info about the Ukraine culture on this site including the superstitions and temperament of the men and women, then you are set to make a decision on what approach you want to use to narrow the field and whether to try and establish a serious relationship before making the trip.  There will be many opinions you will receive and just remember that they all worked for somebody.

If nothing else, if you just plan a vacation with no real expectations of  finding your bride on the first trip you might find it a great opportunity to 'get your feet wet' and get the 'lay of the land' for future visits.

To add one line to the advice from ML.... I would not waste my time on any site or agency that you cannot get the email address and phone number of the gals.

Best of luck to you!

[LAman]

Yes indeed; if you want to treat this like a Spring break trip to Florida (and get the same result) then best to you.

But then remember that Turbo and I are sort of new at this, having only been going to FSU for 10 years or more (40 + trips for me).

ML...maybe you missed my point, many girls in odessa in summertime ARE from many of the cities guys here recommend visiting. And I see no reason for a girl to 'let her hair down' !!!
By the way ML.....10+years and 40+ trips....do you think your MO is really working??? Your 'gal' now just happened to fall in your lap..if I remember correctly.......

[ML]

ML...maybe you missed my point, many girls in odessa in summertime ARE from many of the cities guys here recommend visiting. And I see no reason for a girl to 'let her hair down' !!!
By the way ML.....10+years and 40+ trips....do you think your MO is really working??? Your 'gal' now just happened to fall in your lap..if I remember correctly.......

No, you are missing the point.  The gals that go to Florida for Spring break are from good families and live in good cities.  Same for Odesa during holidays.  Probably one in a thousand gals or guys end up with something permanent from Spring break flings.

Not denying good looking gals in Odesa.  But the permanent residents have problems as pointed out by others; and the visitors are like on Spring break.

And since you have read some of my posts, better reread again regarding my background and why I happened to make so many trips to FSU.      I acknowledge that my situation is different from probably 95% of guys here, so I get comments like yours frequently.  No harm, but the knee jerks are just a little tiring.   

My MO works perfectly, depending on what the assignment or task is.