Wow... Meat Market Socials?

[GoodOlBoy]

I coach them....

Doesn't "coaching" a person who is looking to the FSU for a mate violate RWD Commandment #7?
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=34
 
"ALWAYS BE YOURSELF"
 
How on Earth could you possible be yourself, if you are being coached (groomed) to behave and talk in a different way.
 
Also, at what point does the coaching stop?
 
When the client (after coaching) turns into a "little" Eduard. 
 
What if a man uses (pays $$) these types of services and manages somehow to get the RW to the GoodOl' USA, does he continue to be coached?
 
Is this a lifetime service?
 
Color GOB me stupid, but this whole concept is completely bizarre and wreaks of weak men who have NO business in the FSU. 
 
I will exit now, I hear giant footsteps coming. 
 
GOB

[Anotherkiwi]

and sometimes WOVO women are all "out" three minutes after you get off the plane...)))

No, mate, it was thirty seconds!     This was on my first trip - luckily she was a nice woman, and spent the next week showing me all around her city and area, but it still sucked spending all that money, and travelling all that way, to find out that there was absolutely no chemistry after what seemed so promising over the previous months of correspondence and phone calls.
 
It nearly put me off totally, but I fell in love with the country anyway so I'm still prepared to keep looking there for "THE ONE."

[magnetic_fields]

Doesn't "coaching" a person who is looking to the FSU for a mate violate RWD Commandment #7?
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=34
 
"ALWAYS BE YOURSELF"
 
How on Earth could you possible be yourself, if you are being coached (groomed) to behave and talk in a different way.
 
Also, at what point does the coaching stop?
 
When the client (after coaching) turns into a "little" Eduard. 
 
What if a man uses (pays $$) these types of services and manages somehow to get the RW to the GoodOl' USA, does he continue to be coached?
 
Is this a lifetime service?
 
Color GOB me stupid, but this whole concept is completely bizarre and wreaks of weak men who have NO business in the FSU. 
 
I will exit now, I hear giant footsteps coming. 
 
GOB

I think you're focusing on the word "coaching" a little too much. I have one friend who lives in another part of the US who recently got married to a Russian woman. When I was in Moscow and before my trip we spoke often as he had great advice about dating ladies from that part of the world. Now how is this different? I have clients who still call me for advice from time to time even though they no longer use my services because it's now become more of a friendship rather than a "business relationship".  have you ever met Ed? He's a nice guy and I know that his clients don't see him as some ruthless "businessman" out to get their money. He's more like a "wingman". Plenty of my friends in nyc get advice from their buddies about dating women in nyc. It's what people do- discuss ideas and share advice. And I don't think he's charging people for friendly conversations on the phone. That's ridiculous!

  And if what he is doing is wrong, What about all the relationship experts and advice columnists and that Dr. who runs the Eharmony website? Aren't they all just "coaching" people? You could argue this message board is one giant coach. right?!

[Anotherkiwi]

What you said about it being exhausting for the women is 100% accurate. Anya (the girl I met in moscow) felt that when she spoke in English (and she was very fluent) she felt more "serious" and a little too formal. She was also exhausted at the end of our chats on skype from converting the languages in her head back and forth daily. Also a lot of things were misunderstood initially which could have been avoided had we both spoken in our native languages with a translator in between.  I am specifically talking about American slang which I tried to avoid but it's hard for it not to come out when one gets excited.

+1  A Russian (lady) friend visited me last year and absolutely endorsed this point.  She has lived outside the FSU for many years, including three years in Ireland, speaks nearly flawless English (and teaches it privately), but there were days when she said "No more English!!!!  My brain hurts, and I need time to sit back and just think in Russian for a few hours!"  It never took a few hours (I think the longest was about 25 minutes  ) but I got the point in spades!

[Eduard]

You know eduard I always felt this was the case and this is just enforces my feelings/thoughts even more.




My clients are walked through the process of how to get around a few of the Russian free dating sites. What to write, and not write, on their profile and I also help them with the wording of the all important introductory letter to each lady who interest's them.

These technique's have proven to be very successful as these men are meeting a lot of ladies from the Russian personal sites that they end up meeting in person.  Now of course one BIG difference in our respective clientele, I know there are many differences but one big difference is most my clients want to meet Ukraine/Russian ladies who can speak at least some English.  By doing this they do not need to have each and every message translated. These guy's like the independence of communicating freely, directly with each other, NO middleman having to translate, and these men are able to determine in a short time which ladies they may have a connection with.  Just so much easier for these men to feel themselves what is going on, true feelings, when they are able to communicate directly.

jack, I got a word that you addressed me without your usual insults and name calling so I took you off ignore and will respond to this post:

Now of course one BIG difference in our respective clientele, I know there are many differences but one big difference is most my clients want to meet Ukraine/Russian ladies who can speak at least some English.

You are mistaken, jack. My clients too prefer to meet RW who speak English. It's only natural. I'm not sure where you got this idea from... what kind of a fool would think: "Well I gots to get me a woman who doesn't speak a word of English!". Most reasonable people would want to communicate directly as quickly as possible and as much as possible. Regretfully it doesn't always happen when you are looking for a life partner in a foreign country where English is a foreign language. Looking only for RW who speak good English limits the pool of available women tremendously and makes the competition for them very tough. Also keep in mind that:1. English knowledge is only one of many other criteria that men usually have 2. plenty of times when a woman speaks great English they just don't connect.

For instance I started working with a guy who is a member on the these RW fora 2 weeks ago. We weren't specifically looking for them but the very first 2 women who I helped him find were both professional translators and spoke fluent English! Obviously they didn't need my help with translation and communicated in English, but guess what? After exchanging  a few messages they stopped writing... And this has happened plenty of times in the passed with many of my clients. So as you see finding an attractive RW who speaks excellent English doesn't mean you are any closer to success.

Also you need to define "who can speak some English". I'd say that most RW can "speak some English" this can vary from a vocabulary of about 10 words to being able to hold a basic conversation. And I have witnessed how a little knowledge can get you in a much bigger trouble than no knowledge at all. In any case, no matter what a woman's level of English is I believe that it is extremely important to be able to talk to each other in your own language and have a 100% understanding of what you say to each other without having to guess or to misunderstand much of what's being said. You are choosing a life partner after all, aren't you? What can be more important than understanding each other and figuring out who the other person really is???

Unlike you, jack I speak both Russian and English fluently so in the beginning stages I make the issue of English knowledge a non-issue. My clients have very in depth conversations with RW regardless of their level of English this makes a huge difference! Once a woman realises that she is talking to a potential mate who is serious about finding a wife she usually starts brushing up on her English, remembering what she learned in school, even taking an English class and by the time they meet her English is usually at least as good as what you would call "some English". So my clients have an immensely larger choice of available women compared to just a few "English speaking" women in Ukraine who also get approached by many more WM compared to the women that I help my clients find.

And another thing, jack, my guys do communicate with the women directly, there are no middlemen involved and they can express their true feelings much better than speaking to a woman who's English skills are very limited without an interpreter, and where half of what he says is misunderstood. My clients take comfort in knowing that a woman will understand exactly what they write to their women and that they will get excellent translation, cultural and relationship advice from both my wife and I, help with logistics and a wingman who travels to the FSU with them and who has been there from the first hello and knows exactly what has been discussed with each lady from the very beginning to the end.

I also build a good rapport with the ladies during 3 way translation sessions and by the time we meet we are pretty good friends, very comfortable with each other. It changes the dynamic of the whole situation tremendously and every one feels very comfortable when they finally meet face to face. As you can see by my excellent success rate all this makes a huge difference. And this is why men who work with me normally find their match in a matter of 3 or 4 months instead of spending years on this search.

[LAman]

At what point did this turn into an INFOMMERCIAL!!!!

[GQBlues]

At what point did this turn into an INFOMMERCIAL!!!!

Been for a while now actually...times been tough lately, apparently...

[Eduard]

I think you're focusing on the word "coaching" a little too much. I have one friend who lives in another part of the US who recently got married to a Russian woman. When I was in Moscow and before my trip we spoke often as he had great advice about dating ladies from that part of the world. Now how is this different? I have clients who still call me for advice from time to time even though they no longer use my services because it's now become more of a friendship rather than a "business relationship".  have you ever met Ed? He's a nice guy and I know that his clients don't see him as some ruthless "businessman" out to get their money. He's more like a "wingman". Plenty of my friends in nyc get advice from their buddies about dating women in nyc. It's what people do- discuss ideas and share advice. And I don't think he's charging people for friendly conversations on the phone. That's ridiculous!

  And if what he is doing is wrong, What about all the relationship experts and advice columnists and that Dr. who runs the Eharmony website? Aren't they all just "coaching" people? You could argue this message board is one giant coach. right?!

Well said! Just to add to your post seems like GOB has an issue with coaches... is it just relationship coaches that he wants to get rid of? Or life coaches, sports coaches, teachers and advisers in general? Shall we start burning the books by Stephen Covey and Dale Carnegie? Somehow my clients disagree with GOB, they find my advice valuable and "right on the money". And yes, GOB, they call me any time they need an advice. Many of them became good friends and we talk regularly whether they need an advice or not. And you know something funny? I get advice from them on things they have better expertise in, like IT issues, marketing, investing, etc. Amazing, isn't it?

[Admin]

Well said! Just to add to your post seems like GOB has an issue with coaches... is it just relationship coaches that he wants to get rid of? Or life coaches, sports coaches, teachers and advisers in general? Shall we start burning the books by Stephen Covey and Dale Carnegie?Somehow my clients disagree with GOB, they find my advice valuable and "right on the money". And yes, GOB, they call me any time they need an advice. Many of them became good friends and we talk regularly whether they need an advice or not. And you know something funny? I get advice from them on things they have better expertise in, like IT issues, marketing, investing, etc. Amazing, isn't it?

Ed,

Take a hint.

The guys upthread are commenting on your making this topic into an "Infomercial" for your services. You may not agree - but it doesn't much matter. It is a persistent pattern and one that does you no good.

Rather than press on - take the hint and change direction, at least.

- Dan

[Gator]

Phil, with most RW having Skype on their computer all my clients move to Skype chats sooner or later ....The vast majority of women lose interest and stop responding after a couple of chats. There are several reasons for that:

No, there are not several reasons.  The only reason is:

The RW did not like the man.

Does talking with a RW require a special ability?  No.  In fact I find it easier to chat with the average RW vs, the average AW, even if the RW's English is so-so..  Then again, maybe the RW  are not average.

I have many faults (I am not handsome, I am older than dirt, can't carry a tune,  etc.), yet no one has ever accused me of being boring.  With Skype I can download photos and other graphics, move the computer around the house and play "What's In Your Closet/Fridge,"   explain a football game (that does bore them so I quickly stop), introduce my sons, feed the dog, etc.  Skype is fun.   This foreplay relaxes the women so that they feel okay with discussing serious topics such as values, goals, sex, rivers they don't want to cross again, etc.

I admit that I have struck out with RW on Skype.  I consider that personality differences or my personal qualities rather than the reasons you listed.   Such is okay because there are many other RW to contact.  I just grab the bat and try again.
 

[Gator]

FWIW, I disagree.
 

Please show where I wrote something to the effect that "But since you're the man, compliance is unnecessary."

[Gator]

 
"ALWAYS BE YOURSELF"
 

Great point.  If "yourself" turns off a particular woman, so be it.  Well, not exactly.  If there is something  about yourself that could bother many women, it needs improvement if possible. 

The trouble is most people are blind to their own faults.  Their friends probably are reluctant to say anything, or perhaps don't have the "critical eye" to perceive the personal quality that needs improvement.  And the question remains of how to achieve the needed improvement.  This is when a coach could help.  Someone to say "Your shit stinks and this is what you need to do."  Maybe Eduard and jack do that.

BTW, most RW if you have spent some time with them are  not reluctant to say something if you ask in a diplomatic way.

[Eduard]

No, there are not several reasons.  The only reason is:

The RW did not like the man.

Does talking with a RW require a special ability?  No.  In fact I find it easier to chat with the average RW vs, the average AW, even if the RW's English is so-so..  Then again, maybe the RW  are not average.

I have many faults (I am not handsome, I am older than dirt, can't carry a tune,  etc.), yet no one has ever accused me of being boring.  With Skype I can download photos and other graphics, move the computer around the house and play "What's In Your Closet/Fridge,"   explain a football game (that does bore them so I quickly stop), introduce my sons, feed the dog, etc.  Skype is fun.   This foreplay relaxes the women so that they feel okay with discussing serious topics such as values, goals, sex, rivers they don't want to cross again, etc.

I admit that I have struck out with RW on Skype.  I consider that personality differences or my personal qualities rather than the reasons you listed.   Such is okay because there are many other RW to contact.  I just grab the bat and try again.

I'll make it short, Phil! You are so wrong!!! You are VERY handsome!!! And not that old!!! But as far as "RW didn't like the man" I strongly disagree! You know why? Because some guys asked me to translate a letter to the woman that had "disappeared" to Russian, and some of the guys got a reply and in the course of the conversation we usually found out that these Skype conversations in English were too tiresome especially after a hard day at work, they felt overwhelmed and exhausted from them and the logic was something like:"Is this worth it? I may never meet this guy in real life, so why go through all this?, and then they just stop writing. When we took "the work" out of the equation and started corresponding in Russian there were no more problems like that and we went on to meeting these women.

[magnetic_fields]

I don't know of if anyone else experienced this.  there were times when I spoke to a Russian woman and I subconsciously would "dumb down" or simplify sentences in English in order for her to understand better. It's like in those comedy movies where a bumbling American speaks like a little child thinking the foreigner will understand better. Like for example " you like movies?" "my favorite actor George clooney". You see? And this completely ruins the feelings of romance. Russian women as I have learned are some of the most well read women in the world. This is the country that produced Tolstoy and they are highly educated. Now here they are talking to an American man who uses baby talk to express how much he likes them. In fact sometimes Anya would get angry saying that I shouldn't hold back. She insisted I speak to her as if I am talking to my friends in America. Trust me it seems cute to talk a foreign woman like this for a short while but if the girl holds herself in high esteem she will feel a bit embarrassed to carry on like this with anyone.  I'm not saying it's impossible without a translator but it most definitely helps.

[Admin]

I'll make it short, Phil! You are so wrong!!! You are VERY handsome!!! And not that old!!! But as far as "RW didn't like the man" I strongly disagree! You know why? Because some guys asked me to translate a letter to the woman that had "disappeared" to Russian, and some of the guys got a reply and in the course of the conversation we usually found out that these Skype conversations in English were too tiresome especially after a hard day at work, they felt overwhelmed and exhausted from them and the logic was something like:"Is this worth it? I may never meet this guy in real life, so why go through all this?, and then they just stop writing. When we took "the work" out of the equation and started corresponding in Russian there were no more problems like that and we went on to meeting these women.

Know what Ed? If a lady is put off by"the work" of getting to know me a bit just because of the language barrier - that would be a pretty strong signal to me that she is not the person I want to consider for a life partner. Reference another topic (here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14377.0 ), in which I excerpted this:

10. Worse, these algorithm-based services may encourage a counterproductive "destiny" mindset that prizes initial compatibility over other factors that are important to the long-term health of a relationship, such as the social and economic support individuals offer each other, or their ability to cope with stressful life events.

Admittedly, others may draw a different conclusion, but for me the sincere willingness to deeply engage in the effort to bridge cultural and language barriers ON BOTH OF OUR PARTS, was a key factor in my decision to marry Olya - and anything less by either one of us would have spoiled the deal.

Relationships are "work" and it is not a bad thing to ferret out whether or not a prospective partner (or oneself) is up to the task.

Just MO - FWIW.

- Dan

[Eduard]

Relationships are "work" and it is not a bad thing to ferret out whether or not a prospective partner (or oneself) is up to the task.

Just MO - FWIW.

- Dan

Dan, I agree, relationships are "work"... when there is a relationship, that is! However exchanging 3 or 4 messages is not a relationship IMO. This is exactly the point I'm trying to make: make it easy for her for the first 2-3 weeks until she develops a real interest in you and is vested. Once that happens, you are absolutely correct, she should put an effort into this. Keep in mind that I'm talking about the women who are not specifically seeking foreign men and don't have profiles on MOB sites. This maybe why the approach needs to be a bit different.

[Faux Pas]

Know what Ed? If a lady is put off by"the work" of getting to know me a bit just because of the language barrier - that would be a pretty strong signal to me that she is not the person I want to consider for a life partner. Reference another topic (here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14377.0 ), in which I excerpted this:

I agree Dan and see this as a no-brainer. She'd be much too lazy for me. I mean we are talking about brain power and charm. It's not like a guy is on the first 2-3 weeks with a woman trying to get her to paint his house.

Dan, I agree, relationships are "work"... when there is a relationship, that is! However exchanging 3 or 4 messages is not a relationship IMO. This is exactly the point I'm trying to make: make it easy for her for the first 2-3 weeks until she develops a real interest in you and is vested. Once that happens, you are absolutely correct, she should put an effort into this. Keep in mind that I'm talking about the women who are not specifically seeking foreign men and don't have profiles on MOB sites. This maybe why the approach needs to be a bit different.

Ed, take this as you will, as I have no dog in the hunt. However, if a women isn't willing to invest the effort to get to know me from the first email/skype contact, I really don't care how much cleavage she shows or how pretty her picture is, I wouldn't be interested in her. I would think much of your target market would think close to the same. Take it for what it's worth, I wouldn't use this as a selling point.

[Eduard]

FP, I'm dealing with the real world and not the MOB world and I'm just sharing what I see and live every day sitting in front of computer 14 hours   a day dealing with this exact subject for the passed 8 years or so. I'm not surprised that your experience and opinion will differ from mine it's only natural. However I stand by my statement. The readers can take it or leave it, it's their prerogative.

[Faux Pas]

FP, I'm dealing with the real world and not the MOB world and I'm just sharing what I see and live every day sitting in front of computer 14 hours   a day dealing with this exact subject for the passed 8 years or so. I'm not surprised that your experience and opinion will differ from mine it's only natural. However I stand by my statement. The readers can take it or leave it, it's their prerogative.

Well I guess that explains it! 

Maybe you should be posting flyers and business cards in the local bars and strip clubs? 

[Jack]

Exactly FP.    eduard certainly has a different clientele from me, thank goodness.

And what eduard is dealing with in "his" real world, is a different world from me in all the time I have been involved with this most magnificent pursuit.

[BC]

Doesn't "coaching" a person who is looking to the FSU for a mate violate RWD Commandment #7?
 

I think of it as 'facilitated' dating regardless if the 'coaching' comes from a website, 'hand holding' services like Ed or 'socials' that Jack offers.

There is plenty of snake oil to go around. Each vendor touts their own formulation.

As for violation of the commandments, I think #9 is the most violated.. much more than #7

Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.

Anyone see bus loads of marriage minded men touring through cities in the US?
Anyone hear of a personal dating assistant that will scour match.com and travel with you to find marriage minded women in the US?

Heck.... anyone here ever get on a flight with domestic destination to meet a girl for the first 'date' arranged by a commercial third party?

[Eduard]

Heck.... anyone here ever get on a flight with domestic destination to meet a girl for the first 'date' arranged by a commercial third party?

yes, some do (I had a client last year who did just that using the services of Valenti International). There are plenty of introduction services here in the US and some of them charge the heck of a lot more than jack or I.
search for matchmakers, inroduction services, etc. you'll find plenty right here in the good old USA. heck, there is even a TV show called "Millionnaire Matchmaker".

[BC]

yes, some do (I had a client last year who did just that using the services of Valenti International). There are plenty of introduction services here in the US and some of them charge the heck of a lot more than jack or I.
search for matchmakers, inroduction services, etc. you'll find plenty right here in the good old USA. heck, there is even a TV show called "Millionnaire Matchmaker".

'here' was the operative word Ed. 

Heck.... anyone here ever get on a flight with domestic destination to meet a girl for the first 'date' arranged by a commercial third party?

[Maxx2]

Know what Ed? If a lady is put off by"the work" of getting to know me a bit just because of the language barrier - that would be a pretty strong signal to me that she is not the person I want to consider for a life partner.
- Dan

Sometimes the effort to learn English is not a measure of their desire for you but rather their desire for the country they are moving to.

[Maxx2]

I don't know of if anyone else experienced this.  there were times when I spoke to a Russian woman and I subconsciously would "dumb down" or simplify sentences in English in order for her to understand better. It's like in those comedy movies where a bumbling American speaks like a little child thinking the foreigner will understand better. Like for example " you like movies?" "my favorite actor George clooney". You see? And this completely ruins the feelings of romance. Russian women as I have learned are some of the most well read women in the world. This is the country that produced Tolstoy and they are highly educated. Now here they are talking to an American man who uses baby talk to express how much he likes them. In fact sometimes Anya would get angry saying that I shouldn't hold back. She insisted I speak to her as if I am talking to my friends in America. Trust me it seems cute to talk a foreign woman like this for a short while but if the girl holds herself in high esteem she will feel a bit embarrassed to carry on like this with anyone.  I'm not saying it's impossible without a translator but it most definitely helps.

Good post. I would say more like irritated though. Also something I noticed is they get irritated when you try and speak their language.