When does the game stop?

[mies]

A good example of mutual trust and respect.

I am not sure about that, Gator. This can be example of mutual trust and respect, this could also be a perfect example of self-centered-ness and narcissism on one side, and egoism on the other side. When woman pores onto people around her whatever infantile moments she has, and man does not care at all about what's going on with his woman, so she thinks that he is not trying to rationalize, while he isn't trying to understand, or even listen to. The point is - from a given sentence there is no way to judge what like is the relationship in this couple whom none of us have seen or know anything of.

[mies]

and say without any evidence those specail yet damning words, "There is something wrong with him."    [Tim,  forgive me, I was overserved at the club today. ]

Maybe he is ready to settle down, especially if a good woman enters his life.   

There is another concept in Russian, something along the lines "man who seeks to marry an orphan," in a milder version - "wants to marry provincial girl"/"осчастливить провинциалку." By definition, a man who fits into this category has something wrong about him. Basically this is a man who is intentionally looking for underprivileged woman, not necessarily a woman with bad manners, more of a "diamond from the dirt" who would have poor prospects in life otherwise, and who would be eternally grateful for him, but most importantly - he will be able to believe that he gave this woman everything. In return, (in the extreme version) the woman should "kiss his feet" and worship him, be an ideal homely wife, etc etc.   
Of course, things do not usually work out that way, sooner or later the woman turns out to be not what he expected, or the guys outgrows his dreams and marries someone more compatible with himself, but the instances when men from cities have the mindset "I will make this poor, humble, but noble in her virtues girl happy whereas city girls are all spoiled" is not that seldom among Ukrainian guys. Cannot speak for Russian guys because I know only several of them, but I'd suspect the same happening in Russia.

Why is it not very normal? Imagine for a moment that otherwise fine woman (professional, good looking, etc.) specifically wants to marry a disabled man. She finds a man, whom she considers to be disabled, and she always reminds the man that he is disabled. The only problem is that the man isn't really disabled, and he isn't staying with this woman because he needs her, he married her because  - maybe because he was stupid, and he is helping her with everything.

I am not saying that Rivardco is like that, and I understand that live personalities may be quite different than forum images. But the image created in this thread has a tiny bit of that "i will find a perfect provincial girl for myself."

[mies]

I think one should realise that the advice and certain concepts and attitudes provided here by our lovely resident FSU ladies may be (and in my opinion is) a lot more cinical than an average woman my clients and I meet. I think it is due to their exposure to the MOB scene. Women who has never looked for a foreigner or dated one are a lot less cinical and more open to real love and relationship than described here in my experience.

Eduard, this is a good theory. But it can be safely rejected at least in my case. I never looked for a foreigner. My husband was the only person I dated (total 1 person). I am not sure how could you claim that I was not open to real love and relationship. Do you presume my marriage is not based on real love and relationship?
I can assure you, I am as genuine, real, and romantic FSU woman as it gets.

I am also quite certain that other women in this thread were also looking for real love and relationship, and that their respective marriages are also based on real love, and real relationship.

At the same time, I do agree with you, that majority or your female clients (or a hypothetical "average") will rarely say openly to you or your male clients things like have been said in this thread. people do not poop where they eat. You aren't that naive not to understand the difference between words spoken and thoughts thought. Otherwise you would not be able to be in the type of business you are in.

[Doll]

 
Ed, want the truth? Mies and I are "more cinical" because we don't have to be "clients"
anymore.
I am sure, the female "clients" are not that rough. Ed, wait till they get through the "transition" to the USA and then- adjusting. Even without "rude awakening" it takes the whole person to survive a huge stress. If the "male client" is not what they expected- then listen to them.
Overall, yes, we are a little))) rough here- it is Internet! 

[Eduard]

actually I haven't had any female clients... all my clients have been males so far

[Doll]

We understand- just loved the term "client"
 

[Eduard]

We understand- just loved the term "client"

ну да, "Клиент созрел"

[Doll]

Ага, точно.
I am reading your site, Ed.
Wow, you wife is almost 20 years younger!  Your daughters are so pretty! You have the house full of beautiful women! 

[Eduard]

Ага, точно.
I am reading your site, Ed.
Wow, you wife is almost 20 years younger!  Your daughters are so pretty! You have the house full of beautiful women! 

" Wow, you wife is almost 20 years younger!" ----- yes, and she can't wait for me to finally grow up and act my age! 


 "Your daughters are so pretty!"-------- yes, thank you! I'm not looking forward to their teen years! Wish we could just skip 7 or 8 years... 


"[size=78%]You have the house full of beautiful women![/size][size=78%] [/size] " ------------yes, 5 females... (including 2 female dogs) But I do have an 11 months old male puppy to keep my sanity intact 

[IAmZon]

Wow!  I feel like I should pay at the receptionist - Thanks Doctors LOL

Well, Gator is right in the past I tended to ramble philosophically. And, I guess that made me come off as tentative, or brainy (or a dim wit)?   That was in the past.  Some people stay the same all their life; others change.  I changed.  I am still changing, in fact. When I met some of you a couple years back, I was measuring my choices in life, not just women.  I think I also had a crazy look in my eye:)  It's not there anymore - I HOPE!

WITH REGARD TO WOMEN:  If I was confident 2 years ago, I am enormously confident now.  NOT ARROGANT.  Listen to me:  I do not desire a woman for her beauty IF SHE DOES NOT DESIRE ME.  I do not want to spend time with a woman, IF I HAVE TO FAKE IT.  I greatly prefer full relationships, but that is not possible most of the time.  So, providing there is a special something, I have taken the good, and left the bad, or just observed.  I am not one of those guys that tries to get lucky every night - far from it.  Also, although I would like to find an ideal relationship, I am quite happy and content with the direction my life has taken and my choice in women.  Although I am not married, or in a serious relationship now, it is important to note I am not in a compromised, or unhappy marriage either.

And this brings up a point I will call being "hungry hearted."  This surely describes the man I was a few years back, and most men seeking marriage I think. This is the CAUSE, the effect may be called an error in judgement, being scammed, or what have you.  Hungry hearted men want to fill in the blank before actually knowing the answer.   This is clearly a romantic tendency, and although understandable, it is UNMANLY.  I found this site as a result of dating a Romanian woman.  I would not have admitted it at the time (probably was unable to see it), she had me like a puppet on a string.

And this brings up a point I will call "creating attraction."  It is easier for a man than a woman.  I man simply needs to remove the objection to his physical being, while the female must leverage it.   Staying in shape, fashion, style, manner ... all these things can be learned or improved upon by a man capable of self analysis.   As I write I see an IRONY. I titled this thread WHEN DOES THE GAME STOP, and intended it outwardly (those damn RW), but it applies to me inwardly as well.   Ahh, to find the correct balance ...

A few more comments:

COUNTRY WOMEN.  In Argentina, for example, Portenas, when from the city, are beautiful, but notoriously difficult to seduce.  And, even when accomplished there is a constant game that is not unlike the Tango for which the city is famous.  However, if one goes to Cordoba or Mendoza, the situation is much different.   Again, in Colombia, in the capital city, Bogota, women are more ambitious and career centered.  In smaller, agricultural cities (pop 250K - 500K), it is possible to meet woman from rich families that are more focused on traditional roles and family (of course these woman run the house with the benefit of servants and such - it is very common.  Everybody has maids).   So, women in capital cities, very generally speaking may be seeking for a transactional advance in finding a mate, more than a women from a slower, less dynamic location.

I HAVE 2 MORE YEARS BEFORE BECOMING AN OLD MAID!  HAHAHA   For one reason or another, I am on top of my game these days, later in life.  I have no problem spending time with young beautiful women IF THERE IS A CHEMISTRY.  But, I would not become seriously involved with a women greater than 20 years my junior - even though I could.  In almost every case, it would not be fair to the woman, and it would cause obvious difficulties down the road.

WHY TRY THIS AT ALL?  New experience, PLUS, I am very attractive to the apparent intelligently, sophistication, and effort that many RW possess.

IN SUMMATION. While I realize I am approaching a generational gap regarding my age, I do not feel pressured to find a wife - I am just much more open and engaging to those possibilities these days.  I am not scared of being alone, or a being batchellor my whole life.  I am much more concerned about entering into a compromised, or bad marriage.    But, each meeting and relationship is different.   We are a product of all our past activities and experiences.   If I can not determine which side is up at this point, I am in BIG TROUBLE.  In the end, I remain hopeful and grounded.  It is not as much FUN as falling crazy in love; but I am a grown man, and such things are for women and young me mas o menos ....
=====

NOW THEN, What am I again?  "In slavic part of USSR people like you are described as "еще один любитель халявы" and generally not very well perceived by any woman.

[Doll]

See? We told you- Russian women can easily drive you crazy!

[Doll]

  rivardco, could you please define " traditional roles"?
(now I can't get rid of this bold font!    It's all your fault!)

[IAmZon]

(yeah ... those fonts got a little crazy)


Traditional Roles versus Modern / Careerists:   There is NOTHING wrong at all with a woman being a successful business woman, or Doctor, or whatever.  But, I do not want that type of woman for a wife.  AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT I WANT SOMEONE BENEATH ME. 


I dated a psychologist in Colombia.  She came from a good family. She was educated in New York and Buenos Aries.  She was 25 years of age.  She was a GOOD person. Not a beauty queen.  Her time was always so full.  At first I did not mind, but then, I had to ask myself, "why do I want a woman who has such a demanding second life"?  My answer was that I did not.


I see a woman's best talents (as far as being a wife) creating a home and building a family.  I would do my share too, of course.  But, in this view, we "spoil" each other with attention.  This may not be for everyone.  But, it is what I would prefer.


( I will leave the fonts alone this time)

[SFandEE]

, but then, I had to ask myself, "why do I want a woman who has such a demanding second life"?  My answer was that I did not.


I see a woman's best talents (as far as being a wife) creating a home and building a family.  I would do my share too, of course.  But, in this view, we "spoil" each other with attention.  This may not be for everyone.  But, it is what I would prefer.


( I will leave the fonts alone this time)

This seems reasonable to me.  Knowing what you want and expressing it are two key step to getting what you want.  I do think some people deceive themselves that they can do it all.  They end up doing shortcuts and become neglectful or an abandoner of the relationship.


Who wants that?  I guess it could and does work if the relationship is open and the stability of the home and family  is not compromised.  More of a business/family relationship.

[Daveman]

The debate is more about values. Simple vs Complex life value schemes.  It takes both as well as a blend of the two to create and maintain the full spectrum of what we think of as civilized society. 

[mies]

but then, I had to ask myself, "why do I want a woman who has such a demanding second life"?  My answer was that I did not.


I see a woman's best talents (as far as being a wife) creating a home and building a family. 

so yeah, i was right about feet kissing and worshiping the man by his wife 

Could you please give more details on what do you mean by "creating a home and building a family"

[mies]

This seems reasonable to me.  Knowing what you want and expressing it are two key step to getting what you want.  I do think some people deceive themselves that they can do it all.  They end up doing shortcuts and become neglectful or an abandoner of the relationship.


Who wants that?  I guess it could and does work if the relationship is open and the stability of the home and family  is not compromised.  More of a business/family relationship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_relationship

SF, sorry, I didn't understand what did you mean in the 2 underlined sections, but I am eager to follow your idea. Could you please rephrase?

[IAmZon]

so yeah, i was right about feet kissing and worshiping the man by his wife   Could you please give more details on what do you mean by "creating a home and building a family"

I would prefer to do the feet kissing, in fact ... but, again, it really HAS TO BE the correct foot, on the correct woman.


As in my most recent example, the woman was great, and she liked me and we spent as much time together as she was able.  She was at the start of a new career, and pouring herself into her work.   Her cases were on her mind before bed, during diners, most of the time.   I respect that.  I respect her for having passion and life goals.  BUT, who did I actually prefer spending my time with?  not her, and all her cases:)


Yeah, I do not back off that point.  For me, I am happy to do without a second income to have the full attention of my woman.   Of course, I want her to have a separate life!  I travel often and am busy.  But, I think one such person in a relationship is more than enough ...

[TheTraveler]

Yeah, I do not back off that point.  For me, I am happy to do without a second income to have the full attention of my woman.   Of course, I want her to have a separate life!  I travel often and am busy.  But, I think one such person in a relationship is more than enough ...

I couldn't have better described my own thoughts about this.
 

[ML]

I dated a psychologist in Colombia.  She came from a good family. She was educated in New York and Buenos Aries.  She was 25 years of age.  She was a GOOD person. Not a beauty queen.  Her time was always so full.  At first I did not mind, but then, I had to ask myself, "why do I want a woman who has such a demanding second life"?  My answer was that I did not.

I sometimes ponder this situation myself.

My current Gal has a very full class schedule which will continue on for a few years.  Then she will probably want to work full  time.

I am thinking ahead how will this play out.

On the one hand, in just a few  short years (or even now) I can see myself wanting to get up late, eat a light breakfast, go for walk, have a light lunch, loll around on the beach, etc., etc.  And all of this would be done in a location with (likely) poor job prospects for the Gal.  Plus I think  I would like to have a woman with me during all these daily events.

But then on the other hand, I can see the advantages of a future with limited but high quality time together in the evenings . . . and then each enjoying our separate daytime routines.

And even, right now, helping my Gal with her daily homework (especially with the longer essay papers) has really taken away all of my spare time.  I keep wondering how it would be with a fat AW who would allow me my spare time.   

This desire for sex with an attractive woman is a real killer.
Wouldn't life be much simpler without it?
Perhaps I will look into the neutering thingy.

[Doll]

so yeah, i was right about feet kissing and worshiping the man by his wife 

Could you please give more details on what do you mean by "creating a home and building a family"

Yeah, you were right. Nothing new though

[pitbull]

Agree with Doll and Mies.
 
The OP wants a wife who would be able to put their marriage/relationship in the first place in her life, being able and willing to spend time with him at any/all times.  Also, this should happen on the OP's schedule - after all, he is busy and travels a lot. This situation basically means no career or even a relatively decent job for the woman (or at least I don't know a job that you can temporarly quit when your husband is not travelling and demanding all of your attention). Of course, she can have her own "life", so that she doesn't get bored and start fooloing around with a postman when the hubby is too busy for her (underwater basket weaving?). And she should not be "spoiled", after all, there will only be one income in the family. I believe the OP could have scores of women like that in Latin America, but oops, he wants her not only to be young and beautiful, but also educated, smart and sophisticated. But oops again, educated, smart and sophisticated young women usually want their own career rather than waiting on the old hubby hand and foot 24/7.
 
In other words, the characteristics that the OP wants in a wife are mutually exclusive. A young beautiful woman who posseses all of those would only agree to play by the OP's relationship rules if he is VERY well-off. It will cost you, Rivardco . OR she may agree to this temporarily using the man as a platform for her new life in the US..
 
In other words, I agree with mies

[Doll]

again, it really HAS TO BE the correct foot, on the correct woman.

Could you please define it?

[Doll]

I couldn't have better described my own thoughts about this.

Ok, guys. So, we have a women with no income, we are ok if she has her "own life".
How?

[IAmZon]

The OP wants a wife who would be able to put their marriage/relationship in the first place in her life, being able and willing to spend time with him at any/all times.  Also, this should happen on the OP's schedule - after all, he is busy and travels a lot. This situation basically means no career or even a relatively decent job for the woman (or at least I don't know a job that you can temporarly quit when your husband is not travelling and demanding all of your attention). Of course, she can have her own "life", so that she doesn't get bored and start fooloing around with a postman when the hubby is too busy for her (underwater basket weaving?). And she should not be "spoiled", after all, there will only be one income in the family. I believe the OP could have scores of women like that in Latin America, but oops, he wants her not only to be young and beautiful, but also educated, smart and sophisticated. But oops again, educated, smart and sophisticated young women usually want their own career rather than waiting on the old hubby hand and foot 24/7.

Nope, I do not agree with the above - too extreme.  (I am sure the failure to clearly communicate is my own).   


I THINK ... all too often husbands and wives want too much out of each other, and not allow enough separation.  Thus, a wife is a lover and a mother (and mistress too?); and a best friend, and a partner in the home, and a business partner, and a bowling partner, and so on and so on.    This may be healthy and work for a very very small number of pairings.   


My point above, then, must be measured in degrees.  The young psychologist I mentioned up-thread was waaaay too preoccupied with her job for fit my preferences for a wife.   To each his own.