When does the game stop?

[Eduard]

Excellent point. 

Pretty much what is referred to as a Mexican standoff. I do think Tim can find his happy medium once he decides it isn't "all about Tim". Relationships are (IMHO) all about give and take and wanting to do both. Seems near impossible for two "truly" free spirits.

I think it is possible but not easy, and even more difficult to maintain long term. Lots will depend on them and how they will feel and act in the relationship. The ratio of how much they want to stay together/adjust to each other/compromise, to their desire to be a truly "free spirit" will be detremental to their long term success as a couple. But I have a feeling that a lot of what Tim wants in a woman now will suddenly no longer matters once he meets the one who sweeps him off his feet. Suddenly being a "free spirit" will take second place to having her in his life... 

[Eduard]

We all know, that for a certain period of time she (free spirit or traditional) will have to stay with him just because the immigration status.
And even then she will have to decide because GC itself doesn't pay the bills.

Вы неисправимый циник Долличка!

[Misha]

Excellent point. 

Pretty much what is referred to as a Mexican standoff. I do think Tim can find his happy medium once he decides it isn't "all about Tim". Relationships are (IMHO) all about give and take and wanting to do both. Seems near impossible for two "truly" free spirits.

Yes, and then throw in a child or even two. A "traditional" from Russia IMHO would be aghast at dropping everything, and then having to travel to exotic locations with small children to go diving or whatever else 

[Gator]

Yes, and then throw in a child or even two. A "traditional" from Russia IMHO would be aghast at dropping everything, and then having to travel to exotic locations with small children to go diving or whatever else 

 
Especially to a Latin American carnival with salsa music, fresh seafood,  brightly colored cocktails, and warm sunshine.  Rivardco will never find a RW who would make such a sacrifice.

[JohnDearGreen]

it is that bad here for a single guy. 

Nothing personal, but I don't think RM are anywhere near the top of the list of what most above-average-AW are looking for.  Italian or Spanish might do ok, but most other foreigners not so well.

[Misha]

 
Especially to a Latin American carnival with salsa music, fresh seafood,  brightly colored cocktails, and warm sunshine.  Rivardco will never find a RW who would make such a sacrifice.

Yes, I am sure a RW with a newborn baby would be jumping on that plane 

[Eduard]

Nothing personal, but I don't think RM are anywhere near the top of the list of what most above-average-AW are looking for.  Italian or Spanish might do ok, but most other foreigners not so well.

Not to burst your bubble, John, but in the early 80s I dated 2 beautiful AW, then I went to college and started dating another way above-average AW who became my wife, with whom we spent 15.5 years total. Right after my divorce I had a choice of the gorgeous Moldovan girl and a gorgeous 27 yo AW. I chose to go with the Moldovan because after 15 years spent with my AW wife I just wanted a change, something different. The only time I felt the difference was when I became single again at 43. Yimes have changed, single AW I was meeting were now quite different (both in attitude and the waist size) and my age off course didn't help (although it didn't matter in Russia). This is the time I was describing in my post, John. I still think that the demographics of the place where I live had a lot to do with my bad dating experience here. I absolutely didn't have any problems dating at 43, 44 in Russia though. And I wasn't dating any MOB agency girls but rather girls from the general population who weren't looking to "get out" or anything of a sort. They just wanted effection, love, family if this is what I wanted.


PS. May I point out to you that all my clients are American and Canadian men and they too have the same problems dating AW. So nothing personal but you are dead wrong 

[IAmZon]

We all know, that for a certain period of time she (free spirit or traditional) will have to stay with him just because the immigration status.  And even then she will have to decide because GC itself doesn't pay the bills.

WHAT! Are you nuts? I do not suffer fools easily, or the insincere, or the materialistic, or many other things.  IManipulate a woman to be my girlfriend, much less my wife?!?!?  There is a greater chance a fish will ride a bicycle.

[LAman]

WHAT! Are you nuts? I do not suffer fools easily, or the insincere, or the materialistic, or many other things.  IManipulate a woman to be my girlfriend, much less my wife?!?!?  There is a greater chance a fish will ride a bicycle.

" First off, I will admit ... my brain goes mushy when seduced by a RW / FSU woman."
".......... it is only when a woman very intelligently communicates with me showing depth, and then adds a little exotic tease POOF!  There goes my better judgement."
 
Maybe..just maybe you can never fully get over these issues????? Maybe you are not the wired to be married? The mind can certainly find any number of reasons to NOT to do something!!!!! Hopefully the OP can find what he is looking for....where ever that may be.....
 
I am to the point of letting things happen as opposed to making things happen....
Last time I spoke to my exgf....we joked about eventually becoming traveling partners if we do not find our loves!!!!

[mies]

But I have a feeling that a lot of what Tim wants in a woman now will suddenly no longer matters once he meets the one who sweeps him off his feet. Suddenly being a "free spirit" will take second place to having her in his life... 

it is possible. but how long will it last?
a year? two? three? 6 months?

[chivo]

 

it is possible. but how long will it last?
a year? two? three? 6 months?

And does this women even exist?
 
The OP seems to want his own version of perfection. Good luck with that. Because...
 

Maybe..just maybe you can never fully get over these issues????? Maybe you are not the wired to be married? The mind can certainly find any number of reasons to NOT to do something!!!!! Hopefully the OP can find what he is looking for....where ever that may be.....

The OP has been in Colombia for years and he's saying he hasn't found "the" women of his dreams, yet has dated many. Are you telling me not one woman in Colombia meets his criteria?
 
I have been in Russia for years and have met many "perfect" women for me. I think I understand some of what he's going through. One difference is that I'm not moving to another country looking for an answer. She's here.
 
He has to be ready to accept marriage and its responsibilities and not just the continual rush of the chase. Not easy for a thrill seeker/adrenaline junkie.

[IAmZon]

Has anyone noticed that:

- there is a tenancy here to think that to become married is THE GOAL in and of itself.  IMO the goal ought to be a good, happy, and successful marriage.  And these take plenty of work and they are more rare than most are willing to admit. 

- members here are prone to making conclusion or prejudices on the most slight evidence:  One woman's remark at a wedding.  On fragment in one post.  People are more complicated than that.

Especially to a Latin American carnival with salsa music, fresh seafood,  brightly colored cocktails, and warm sunshine.  Rivardco will never find a RW who would make such a sacrifice.

It is also funny to me that many think that to become married requires some type of purification LOL 

I am single today, without children, and am free to live anyway I choose.  Does that disqualify me from being a good husband and father in the future?  I would suggest that such would make me a more complete man.  And, what complete and wise man would ever leave a worthy wife at home to go to Carnival by himself?  The very thought suggests a man and woman with little human quality.

[Gator]

- members here are prone to making conclusion or prejudices on the most slight evidence:  One woman's remark at a wedding.  On fragment in one post.  People are more complicated than that.

Her their comment was not a straw man.  I found such mentality in the back of the mind of all traditional RW when evaluating husband material.  That and "greedy" and "egotist." Their comment is simply a mirror for you to see one facet of yourself.  Only one facet as there certainly is far more depth to "Rivardco" than that. 
 
As you say people are more complicated  than that.  Yes they are, except for the superficial people, and  you did not impress me as a superficial person.  I believe you have many layers, except that you have not shed one layer that some of us let go of a long time ago. 

  And, what complete and wise man would ever leave a worthy wife at home to go to Carnival by himself?  The very thought suggests a man and woman with little human quality.

Must I explain my sarcasm?  I thought it obvious.  My point is that 95% of RW would jump at the opportunity to travel for a Carnival holiday.  How about your child/children?    If with young child, you would arrange for trustworthy babysitter.   The mother of my sons did exactly that, sometimes flying the babysitter with us, sometimes staying at Club Med with its mini-Club for young children, etc.  And if blessed with infant, your RW's babushka would fly in from her FSU city and stay in your house for a couple of months around the Carnival trip.  Does the thought of sharing your home with a babushka alarm you?   After all, you do want a traditional wife, and traditional RW have strong family connections.   

[Misha]

IMO the goal ought to be a good, happy, and successful marriage.  And these take plenty of work and they are more rare than most are willing to admit. 

Sure, but as Chivo mentions, if you have been dating a lot of women for 3 years and have not been able to find one that measures up to your perfection, then yes that does raise many questions. It is an indicator that you yourself do not know what you want and like the protagonists in Seinfeld you will disqualify a woman for the most trivial of matters or you have set the bar so high that no living woman could measure up to the standard you have set...

People are more complicated than that.

Actually, people tend to be quite simple for the most part.

[Misha]

If with young child, you would arrange for trustworthy babysitter.

Do you really think that most RW would leave a small child with a babysitter while they go away on a trip?!? Most RW that I have known have never EVER left their child with any babysitter    Yes, the babushka would be the only option, but leaving her in a foreign country where she does not speak the language would hardly be an option. So, the trip to the Carnaval would involve bringing wife, child and mother-in-law.... This is hardly a trip to be organized on the spur of the moment as "free spirits" don't plan a year in advance 

[mendeleyev]

Some of the people I highly respect are making excellent points.

You wouldn't know when you misunderstand something. The first few years in the USA my mom's English was quite limited even though she took it at the university. When she talked to somebody she often thought that she understood them. But when she explained to me in Russian what she understood I could see that she completely misenterpreted what was said to her, good thing I was there with her to hear the conversation and point this out to her. Otherwise how would she know that she misunderstood? Lots of times she understood things a 180 degrees opposite of what she was told.

Ed, I have continued to preach that there is no such thing as a person who speaks fluent English if they've not lived for awhile in the culture of the language. Men who believe otherwise are risking a great deal. I've met a lot of men dating RW who believe their lady to be "fluent." Those same men change their minds eventually when faced with the reality that the same lady has to relearn English to some extent once as she adjusts to life in his country.

A "traditional" from Russia IMHO would be aghast at dropping everything, and then having to travel to exotic locations with small children to go diving or whatever else

So true.

[Faux Pas]

Ed, I have continued to preach that there is no such thing as a person who speaks fluent English if they've not lived for awhile in the culture of the language. Men who believe otherwise are risking a great deal. I've met a lot of men dating RW who believe their lady to be "fluent." Those same men change their minds eventually when faced with the reality that the same lady has to relearn English to some extent once as she adjusts to life in his country.


So true.

 
Do I ever agree with this. My wife, who has excellent English skills although not fluent. She still thinks in Russian and translates in her mind but excellent skills and understanding nonetheless. Teaching her to drive, I could not for the life of me get her to make a left turn. Right turn didn't "seem" to be as much of a problem but, a left turn was impossible. We're in the left turn lane, I've described endlessly what we are going to do, the turn blinker is on, the light turns green I say go, she takes off straight every time.

This was a source of frustration for me for several weeks. She couldn't explain to me why she goes straight other than she did what I told her to do. After racking my brain for a few weeks, I finally deduced it came down to one word "go". In her mind, go means straight. In my mind go means proceed.

Seriously, I was at one point beginning to think something was wrong with her brain preventing her from turning left. Alas, it was only the exact definition of the word "go" 

[IAmZon]

Sure, but as Chivo mentions, if you have been dating a lot of women for 3 years and have not been able to find one that measures up to your perfection, then yes that does raise many questions. It is an indicator that you yourself do not know what you want and like the protagonists in Seinfeld you will disqualify a woman for the most trivial of matters or you have set the bar so high that no living woman could measure up to the standard you have set...

There are working assumptions in this statement, are you aware? 


Gator, I get it - all good

[Misha]

There are working assumptions in this statement, are you aware? 


Gator, I get it - all good

Reading your posts, I have come to my conclusions...

[TheTraveler]

Has anyone noticed that:
- there is a tenancy here to think that to become married is THE GOAL in and of itself.  IMO the goal ought to be a good, happy, and successful marriage.  And these take plenty of work and they are more rare than most are willing to admit. 
- members here are prone to making conclusion or prejudices on the most slight evidence:  One woman's remark at a wedding.  On fragment in one post.  People are more complicated than that.

It is also funny to me that many think that to become married requires some type of purification LOL 
I am single today, without children, and am free to live anyway I choose.  Does that disqualify me from being a good husband and father in the future?  I would suggest that such would make me a more complete man.  And, what complete and wise man would ever leave a worthy wife at home to go to Carnival by himself?  The very thought suggests a man and woman with little human quality.

There are way too many conclusions being drawn from so little evidence, that I just have to jump in to Tim's defense here...
 
The fact that he's lived life fairly wide-open in his recent years is in no way disqualifying for him to end up in a very happy 'settled down' state of marriage.
 
In the 18 years leading up to meeting and marrying my DHRW, my life was a continuous bachelor party.  During that time, I doubt anybody thought I would make a good husband or father.  But after meeting and marrying my DHRW, even the thought of being unfaithful has never even crossed my mind.  And it's not just because my wife is disproportionately hot (which she is).  She is the complete package: Great looking, intelligent, interesting, fun, great mom -- plus a cool accent.  I Love and Respect my wife and the family that we've built.  And when a guy has something great and knows it, he'd be wise to do nothing to tear it down.
 
A great woman can make a man change.  My woman changed me.
 
Having lived a full pre-marriage life, I know I'll never have to look back with any regrets and wonder 'what-if?'.  I'd seen it all, and know that I've moved on to a better stage in life where I'm working to be a great husband and a great father of 3 growing kids.
 
I'd venture to guess that many/most of the married guys here on this forum would admit to having gone through a similar transformation.

I can see Tim accomplishing the same thing that we have.  He's a single guy, seems to have no problems finding women and attracting them... He has no baggage from previous marriage... And it seems like he makes good money, which is important, too.  I think his chances of finding a happy 'settled down' future with a superior RW are excellent!

[GQBlues]

I've been following your thread a bit Rivardco and I'm not quite sure why you seem surprised with most of the replies you've gotten here so far...
 

Has anyone noticed that:

- there is a tenancy here to think that to become married is THE GOAL in and of itself.  IMO the goal ought to be a good, happy, and successful marriage.  And these take plenty of work and they are more rare than most are willing to admit. 

Check.

- members here are prone to making conclusion or prejudices on the most slight evidence:  One woman's remark at a wedding.  On fragment in one post.  People are more complicated than that.

Check.

It is also funny to me that many think that to become married requires some type of purification LOL 

Check.
 
All fairly accurate.

I am single today, without children, and am free to live anyway I choose.  Does that disqualify me from being a good husband and father in the future?  I would suggest that such would make me a more complete man.

Not to burst your bubble, your social/dating life is far more normal than you likely think. You just happen to be in a club membership different than you would normally belong in. To quote jb - "You do not belong in this venture" . You can't explain to folks what they're incapable of imagining let alone experiencing what you had so far in your life.
 
There are far more of 'you' than there are of the folks involved in this venture (IMB/MOB) with exactly the same outlook as you do in life. Likely even more if you shun the whole 'traditional wife' sentiment. But even then, I doubt very much you'll have a tough time with that. My only suggestion to you is - enjoy life and don't put too much on the 'searching' aspects of it.

[JR]

+1 to what GQ said.

[Jumper]

 
Riv's been bouncing around this topic almost a decade?
 
 
He's  been interested, but choosen other areas of the wortld to explore.
Obviously by actions, he has never been intrigued enough to go to the FSU..
It's neither a good thing or bad thing..? it just is.
 I'm a bit surprised given his circumstances ,and interest,
that he hasnt just gone on a couple week vacation to Crimea or similar for fun..
but something has held him back a bit?
 and I dont think its just being busy in South America..as he had had years to arrange a two week trip ,and I'm certain he'd enjoy the slight adventure of it all.
 
only Tim knows..?
 
Like i stated ,it isn't good or bad in anyway,
 I just don't think its ever been intriguing *enough* , or he would have already had a side trip or two,so I'm just  surprised at his lingering interest in the whole affair..without action.
 I would have long ago made a trip just on a whim ,and with only the slightest  interest level..
(and did ) even if having fun in my life in other places as well.
 
 
 I can emphasize with Tim, in the regard of finding a woman of similar adventerous spirit...
but they do certainly exist,and family values are not always compromised by it.
 
 

[ML]

Tim, you are right about the emphasis of marriage on this forum.
There exists here a concept that all is not OK unless you are married.
And not just married . . . but married to a FSUW.

If you were previously married for 50 years to an WW; you are still not worthy and basically know nothing.
But if you have been married to a FSUW for 3 months, then you are an honorable  member and are very knowledgeable about married life and women in general.

And if you do not show a strong intent to marry soon (but again, only to a FSUW) then you are basically a scum bag.

But as GQ alludes to, you are more normal than most of the guys here.

. . . your social/dating life is far more normal than you likely think.
 
There are far more of 'you' than there are of the folks involved in this venture (IMB/MOB) with exactly the same outlook as you do in life.

As probably everyone knows, there has been a downward trend in marriage for many years.  There is a recent article by Associated Press "Staying out of the ring: Barely half of adults wed."

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/dec/21/staying-out-ring-barely-half-adults-wed/

This article references some Pew Research Center statistics gleaned from census data.

e.g. In 1960, 72 percent of those aged 18 and older were married.
This percentage fell to 57 percent in 2000 and today it is just 51%.

However, we must acknowledge why the general view of marriage, especially to FSUW, exists here, even as it is not really normal for the average WM.

This is a forum about FSUW.
And 'generally,' it will be difficult to have a long term relationship with a FSUW unless you marry her.  Hence the emphasis on marriage.

So Tim, don't go getting paranoid about the reception you are getting here.
You are just a normal guy interacting with a group that is not really normal.   

[Doll]

Вы неисправимый циник Долличка!

Same as you are, Ed. 
I remember your "movie" with John. I have to learn for years to be as cinical as you're.
I guess it is off topic))))))