How to deal with the language barrier ?

[chivo]

No way

    Seems we have a bit of a language barrier here.
 
That's why I said arguably, so not to argue about it. You have your opinion, I have mine.
 
Now if you had said IMO or ARGUABLY Judith, then it would have made more sense. 
 
 
I just listened to this song since I have never heard of her and couldn't disagree more, but hey she is arguably better.
 


 

[Anotherkiwi]

    Seems we have a bit of a language barrier here.
 
That's why I said arguably, so not to argue about it. You have your opinion, I have mine.
 
Now if you had said IMO or ARGUABLY Judith, then it would have made more sense. 
 
 
I just listened to this song since I have never heard of her and couldn't disagree more, but hey she is arguably better.

If you're going to quote me like this, use the WHOLE phrase!
 

No way - Judith Durham (The Seekers) has, for me and many others, the greatest (and sweetest) pop voice ever.

Surely, Chivo, the way I phrased can easily be interpreted as "in my opinion."  Would it have been better if I put a smiley after it?     Anyway, here's what I consider to be a better example of Judith's amazing voice:
 

 
Now, if two guys whose first language is English can get into such a semantical discussion,      what chance does your average RW have when it comes to the deeper nuances of the language? 

[Faux Pas]

Thanks, but...
 
 Maybe I didn't make in clear enough here?

Maybe, maybe not.

+1 Good post chivo. I only add, patience.  If you don't have any, get some or get out. In most instances, she's working much harder to communicate with you than you with her. Help her as much as you can with patience.

Perhaps I should have put more emphasis on my point. Not trying to steal your thunder here guy, don't get your panties in a wad 

[chivo]

 

Maybe, maybe not.

Perhaps I should have put more emphasis on my point. Not trying to steal your thunder here guy, don't get your panties in a wad 

Oh brother, you know if you refer to men wearing panties it isn't the least bit funny, smiley or not. I'm hardly angry. I mean "panties in a wad" what are we in high school.
 
Again just trying to clarify;
 

1 Good post chivo. I only add, patience. If you don't have any, get some or get out. In most instances, she's working much harder to communicate with you than you with her. Help her as much as you can with patience.

I added patience. As I read it here you're adding something in reference to something I forgot to add, no? If not, and I don't see how I can understand that any other way, then a simple " +1 good post" would have sufficed.
 
And it's not about thunder, I don't seek thunder, only an opinion and the facts. It's also about reading comprehension.
 
No wonder you have disagreed with me so much in this past. You can't read.      

[chivo]

If you're going to quote me like this, use the WHOLE phrase!
 
Surely, Chivo, the way I phrased can easily be interpreted as "in my opinion."  Would it have been better if I put a smiley after it?     Anyway, here's what I consider to be a better example of Judith's amazing voice:
 

 
Now, if two guys whose first language is English can get into such a semantical discussion,      what chance does your average RW have when it comes to the deeper nuances of the language? 

  True, but next time leave out "no way" and it will be more about "in your opinion" 

[chivo]

Oh, and i'll still give Barbara the edge...arguably.
 
P.S. Judith does have a wonderful voice.

[SANDRO43]

Oh, and i'll still give Barbara the edge...arguably.
P.S. Judith does have a wonderful voice.

IMO and judging from the two posted examples, Judith seems to possess a more limited vocal extension than Barbra's, and her voice becomes a bit wobbly when hitting her higher notes.

Here's a virtuoso piece by Mina, who is UNarguably our best singer, now 72 and still active:

[Chicagoguy]

Sandro,
It sounds almost like Scat singing ?

[SANDRO43]

Sandro,It sounds almost like Scat singing ?

In a way, but she's singing real words:

Brava! Brava! Sono tanto brava! Brava!
 Sono tanto brava, sono brava sono tanto brava
 faccio quasi tutto con la voce, sembro un usignolo sì
 forse...forse qualche nota non è proprio giusta...giusta
 però io sono certa che così nessuno sa cantar
 sono come un uccellin senti il trillo...senti il trillo.
 State un pò a sentir queste note così basse che so fare
 poi vado su, vado su, vado su.
 Brava! Brava! Come sono brava! Brava!
 Certo se qualcuno vuole proprio...proprio pignolare
 forse qualcosa non so fare ma sicuramente sì
 non può essere che una cosa
 che non ha nessun valore se vogliamo ricordare
 che come me nessuno sa cantare
 sono come un uccellin senti il trillo...senti il trillo
 e vi ricordate quelle note così basse che so fare.
 Poi vado su...vado su...vado su
 su...su...come due note
 che volano nel cielo
 E tutti sanno
 che ho tanto di quel fiato
 che neppure una balena può resistere sott'acqua
 stando senza respirare tutto il tempo che io tengo questo "mi".
 Brava! Brava! Come sono brava! Brava!
 Sono tanto brava, sono brava
 sono tanto brava
 faccio quasi tutto con la voce, sembro un usignolo sì
 però mi sentirei un poco...poco più tranquilla
 se potessi questa sera farmi dire che son brava sì
 ma che a dirlo siate voi
 voi voi voi voi voi voi voi voi
 voi che lo sentite questo povero mio cuore che fa bum
 bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum!
 Brava! Brava! Brava! Brava! Brava!

[Daveman]

The Singing Nun rules!


but The Flying Nun was far more sexy! (dodging lightning bolts for using words "nun" and "sexy" in the same sentence).




Language is just part of the barrier.  Men and women communicate differently, whether they wish to admit it or not. So, that adds the gender barrier to the mix.


Langender or Genquage, however you want to view it, adds another layer of nuance to (mis)communication.  Women often speak words but expect you to hear/read/pick-up-on and understand her emotions behind the words while men, obviously completely illogically, actually expect words to mean pretty much what the dictionary would indicate.  If you're spending all your time focused on getting the words right, you're actually missing about 50% or so of the female conversation.. 

[ghost of moon goddess]

In a way, but she's singing real words:

I'm curious to know if she used "scioglilingua" to train her tongue

[ghost of moon goddess]

BTW, tongue-twisters are great help when it comes to learning to pronounce difficult letter combinations !

[mies]

First determine in which country you and your woman will work and raise any children.

Then both of you need to be or become fluent in the language of that country.

I agree 100% 

[SANDRO43]

I'm curious to know if she used "scioglilingua" to train her tongue

Possibly, here's an example:

The dancing girl is Vera Ellen (1921-1981), who performed with partners like Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly and Danny Kaye.

[SANDRO43]

BTW, tongue-twisters are great help when it comes to learning to pronounce difficult letter combinations !

And usually they make little sense, if any at all - a few examples:

Italian: Trentatré trentini entrarono a Trento tutti e trentatré trotterellando (33 Trentins entered Trento all 33 trotting).

Italian: Sopra la panca la capra campa, sotto la panca la capra crepa (Over the bench the goat survives, under the bench the goat dies).

Milanese: Ti che te tachet i tac, tachem i tac! Mi, tacaa i to tac a ti, a ti che te tachet i tac? Ma tachete ti i to tac, ti che te tachet i tac! (You who attaches heels, attach my heels! Me attach your heels to you, who attaches heels? But attach your heels yourself, you who attaches heels).

Prounounce our CHs as Ks, if you want to practice it .

Here the 2nd bit is not rendered correctly: "tacum i tac!" rather then "tachem i tac!" means: "Let us attach heels!" . Fewer and fewer people know how to speak Milanese properly, nowadays .

[ML]

BTW, tongue-twisters are great help when it comes to learning to pronounce difficult letter combinations !

From my grade school:

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

Say it fast.

[Chicagoguy]

Sandro, I already forgot my high school Latin but I am sure this is all Italian 

[IAmZon]

I don't know guys, RUSSIAN?!?!?


I am the owner of brand new Spanish.   Admittedly, I have learned my second language late in life.  I can get around, and I have some of my personality in Spanish ... I can not engage in dense, academic talk effectively.   I am another 1 - 2 years from speaking Spanish well enough to be always fluent and proud.  AND THAT IS SPANISH - similar words and sounds.  And the process was much harder than I first imagined.


I suppose I could study to get "vacation Russian"  - but, I think it would be a MAJOR UNDERTAKING to learn that language well. Thus, it seems only logical to narrow the focus to ONLY women with good English - and even then, I imagine it is difficult.

[SANDRO43]

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

Incomplete :

"Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.
A peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked.
If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers,
Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?"

And:
"She sells sea shells on the sea shore"
"How can a clam cram in a clean cream can?"
"Six sick hicks nick six slick bricks with picks and sticks."
"Tie twine to three tree twigs."
"I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch."
"Sounding by sound is a sound method of sounding sounds."

[TheTraveler]

I have a hard time dealing with this as i always have many things to say. What does everyone recommend? The girl i'm talking to is great in emails when she has the time to understand everything. But, when its comes to skype it hits a wall but, the conversation was still enjoyable. I've got some ideas but, i'd love to here what everyone else says. In the meantime i'm going to get a dictionary and do some learning. Maybe we can help each other out with learning in the process.

In your situation...
 
1. Stick to the emails and lessen the skype.
2. Start learning Russian.
 

I dont understand why do you need all this hassle? Internet is full of people speaking english.

If a guy wants to write off the vast majority of the Russian female population, then by all means he should ignore any who aren't fluent English speakers.  On the other hand, if you were selling a product (besides yourself), would you consider it smart business to appeal to only 10% of your potential customer base?

[ML]

If a guy wants to write off the vast majority of the Russian female population, then by all means he should ignore any who aren't fluent English speakers.  On the other hand, if you were selling a product (besides yourself), would you consider it smart business to appeal to only 10% of your potential customer base?

Just depends on if you want to achieve your goals in this life time . . . or in the next.   

[Faux Pas]

Oh brother, you know if you refer to men wearing panties it isn't the least bit funny, smiley or not. I'm hardly angry. I mean "panties in a wad" what are we in high school.

Actually, high school would be you splitting hairs here where there is no hair to split. I can't recall anyone at anytime that I have had to explain so explicitly to them, how or why I agreed with them. Please, get your head out of your ass and just accept the compliment or tell me to blow it out of my ass, your choice.
 

Again just trying to clarify;
 I added patience. As I read it here you're adding something in reference to something I forgot to add, no? If not, and I don't see how I can understand that any other way, then a simple " +1 good post" would have sufficed.
 
And it's not about thunder, I don't seek thunder, only an opinion and the facts. It's also about reading comprehension.
 
No wonder you have disagreed with me so much in this past. You can't read.    

I don't recall disagreeing with you "so much" in the past. Disagreements sure, I've also agreed with you often in the past. Tit for tat. If I ever agree with everything you say, I'd say there's something wrong with me. But, for clarification, I was adding to patience, as I pointed out (I thought clearly) in my last post. There's nothing wrong with my reading skills or comprehension perhaps, it's my writing that is deficient but this is a forum. Work with me some 

[Ade]

I've hardly read anything in the thread so this is probably redundant as it's been said already, but anyway, my opinion on "How to deal with the language barrier?";

1) Best case, find someone that's fluent in your language or be fluent in theirs. That will help a bit but will not remove all misunderstandings as the bad ones aren't always about vocabulary and grammar anyway.

2) Assume that there will be misunderstandings on both sides. Often. Much more often than you'll usually get with a woman from your own country, and let's face it, that's quite often for most couples to start with.

3) Don't take things personally. If she's pissed at you because she thought you said something else, don't escalate. Explain. Calmly. If she is an adult and has also assumed that there will be misunderstandings, these incidents need not be like the lead up to total thermonuclear war although it may seem that way sometimes.

4) Related to 3). Don't take things personally if you think she said something nasty, thoughtless or otherwise less than stellar. Assume that you misunderstood and get clarification and explain why what she said is probably not what she intended.

5) Assume that there will be misunderstandings.

6) Perseverance and patience are orders of the day.

7) Assume that there will be many misunderstandings.

Understand that constantly speaking and being exposed to another a foreign language that you aren't 100% fluent and comfortable with can be exhausting!

[onus]

Langender or Genquage, however you want to view it, adds another layer of nuance to (mis)communication.  Women often speak words but expect you to hear/read/pick-up-on and understand her emotions behind the words while men, obviously completely illogically, actually expect words to mean pretty much what the dictionary would indicate.  If you're spending all your time focused on getting the words right, you're actually missing about 50% or so of the female conversation.. 

This is so true.



I've only skyped twice in over a month of talking, to the comment of cutting down on skype.
Honestly don't see why it would be a problem. Don't you want to know the person? I've learned that emails can be deceiving and we can sound like different people in them due to various things. Plus skype is more enjoyable and interesting.

[noelscot]

Oh gosh, maybe i should have checked back to this thread sooner. Looks like i'm a little behind. Quite the conversation went on without me. Sorry if i missed some points so many posts to read. 

Patience is something i surly have and need a lot of already. In some ways i appreciate the slower pace. Plus, i'm not getting anything that is discouraging me. The opposite is happening so i'll keep trying and moving along.

I guess i should say i didn't start this endeavor purposely to find someone so far away it kinda just worked out that way. I was just trolling sites as i do normally. I ran across her and i just knew i had to talk to her. Now i'm here.

 I haven't talked on skype with her since last weekend. I have just about the worst schedule known to man. I usually don't get home until 9pm on most nights sometimes ten, lucky if i get home earlier. I think that a tad bit too early for her.  Hopefully we can talk this weekend.

I think i'm gonna learn the Cyrillic alphabet first so i can at least transliterate the words / or hopefully get them so i can at least understand what the sounds should be in my mind.  Seems this is the starting point from the links anyway. She said she would love to help me with learning the language.

To go off topic and quite random. She said she would bake me a cake after i was being sweet. Can't say anyone has offered that before unless its my birthday or some event but, i do enjoy fresh baked goods.

If there's no polonium in the cake, everything is copacetic. Seriously, though, that sounds very promising if she wants to bake sweets for you.


I listed some Russian videos below, and I think they will really help you as they have helped me:




















Youtube "travel linguist russian" and watch their many videos.


Here's the twenty million dollar question in Ukrainian AND Russian translated for me by a Ukrainian lady:

Russian - vyhodi za menya zamuž, bud″ moej ženoj -get married to me, be my wife

Ukrainian - vyhod′ za″ mene zamiž, bud′ moeû družinoû -get married to me, be my wife