Dependence and Diamonds in the rough

[mies]

I'd say there is a good chance he'll find what he's looking for.

I agree with this point too. Although, I would not necessarily take Billy as an example.

[Gator]

On the 'diamonds in the rough', I think that the people who may be called diamonds would be to a large extent those who was brought up under the Soviet times. At that time everyone, irrespectively from their means, received a first class education and had easy and free access to learn and enjoy arts, sports, literature and the other things who build and form a well roundeed, educated person. People from the remote areas had fewer of that, though. My point would be that an average Russian in the cities was indeed of a higher cultural level than their peers in the West, let alone the South America. Isn't it what you call 'diamonds in the rough', is it?  First class education and culture to the poor, this was a definite Soviet phenomenon which is unprecedental, purely Russian, and will likely not be repeated anywhere any more.
 
Now the situation in the FSU changes rapidly. Unlike the Soviets, the market system does not give education for free. The former Soviet students can not always supply their children with the same opportunities as they had a while ago. This leads to the situation where younger generation comes closer to what we probably have in Southern America, that is, no money, no opportunities. In order words, no conditions for diamonds to pop up and to grow in the rough!

Lily, excellent explanation.  And I agree with you based on dating RW who were educated during Soviet times.

[Gator]

I'd say there is a good chance he'll find what he's looking for. Stranger things have happened in this MOB business. Look at BillyB for example

Are you women convinced that Rivardco is certain about what he is looking for?  What would bring him enduring happiness?

[IAmZon]

Are you women convinced that Rivardco is certain about what he is looking for?  What would bring him enduring happiness?

It seems that we have changed positions over the years ... You are now overly philosophical LOL 
- Do I know what I like?  yes. 
- AT THIS TIME, WITH THE RIGHT PERSON, am I willing and able to make commitments for a lifetime?  yes.   
- Does this bring enduring happiness?  such things only are the results of a life time of actions. 


Again, much of this stuff sounds like the talk of women (sorry ladies).  Plans and dreams have there place; what would the world be without inspiration?   HOWEVER, Clear thinking.  Action.  Courage.  Consistency.  Firmness ... These are the attributes of the masculine.   MANY relationships are moldable with the correct nurturing and leadership - even the imperfect ones.


=>  So, what happened to BillyB anyway?
=> Excellent points Lilly!  So, if a woman is 30, for example, is she a part of this beneficial time period?  (I hope you are happy in Canada)
=> I am beginning to worry about you.  IIRC, you told me years ago that you were never married.  However, you did say you were in a long relationship in which you lived together.  I also recasll you saying something about her being Hispanic and having a child.   A side affect of knowing only on discussion boards.  Never married, only felt like a divorce.  Non Hispanic. No children.  I have had few serious relationship over the last 4 years - tons of dating; that counts for something:)

[Jack]

Action. 

Yep, that's the answer Tim.   Always has been, always will be.

[mies]

HOWEVER, Clear thinking.  Action.  Courage.  Consistency.  Firmness ... These are the attributes of the masculine.   

and another gem 

[Doll]

Again, much of this stuff sounds like the talk of women (sorry ladies).  Plans and dreams have there place; what would the world be without inspiration?   HOWEVER, Clear thinking.  Action.  Courage.  Consistency.  Firmness ... These are the attributes of the masculine.   MANY relationships are moldable with the correct nurturing and leadership - even the imperfect ones.

Love it- action, consistensy, clear thinking!

Women talk, гришь?

[possum]

So, if a woman is 30, for example, is she a part of this beneficial time period?

No.

[Doll]

Are you women convinced that Rivardco is certain about what he is looking for?  What would bring him enduring happiness?

no

[Doll]

Yep, that's the answer Tim.   Always has been, always will be.

It is not about Tim.
If a man is in his late 40s , never married and now he is "taking time" to get "honest friendship" meaning a woman in Russia- it is NOT action, no way.
Never has been, most unlikely will be.
(just a bit of women talk )

[mies]

On the 'diamonds in the rough', I think that the people who may be called diamonds would be to a large extent those who was brought up under the Soviet times. At that time everyone, irrespectively from their means, received a first class education and had easy and free access to learn and enjoy arts, sports, literature and the other things who build and form a well roundeed, educated person. People from the remote areas had fewer of that, though. My point would be that an average Russian in the cities was indeed of a higher cultural level than their peers in the West, let alone the South America. Isn't it what you call 'diamonds in the rough', is it?  First class education and culture to the poor, this was a definite Soviet phenomenon which is unprecedental, purely Russian, and will likely not be repeated anywhere any more.
 
Now the situation in the FSU changes rapidly. Unlike the Soviets, the market system does not give education for free. The former Soviet students can not always supply their children with the same opportunities as they had a while ago. This leads to the situation where younger generation comes closer to what we probably have in Southern America, that is, no money, no opportunities. In order words, no conditions for diamonds to pop up and to grow in the rough!

except for comparison to Southern America, i generally agree with this post.

[pitbull]

Pit, what about BillyB? What did I miss?

Doll, you've certainly missed a lot!
 
BillyB just married the 18y.o. tall-blond-gorgeous--model looking Ukrainian girl who seemingly agrees to play  the "classically traditional marriage" game. Go check out his thread "Life Changes Part Two", he posted lots of photos.

[Jack]

It is not about Tim.

I'm sorry but your incorrect.  MY answer WAS about Tim.  It was Tim's statement, Tim's question.   I have a long history with Tim and my answer, my reply, WAS about, and to, Tim.

[Gator]

 
Rivardco,

Me thinks that you analyze too much and stereotype too much. 

Although you may have preconceptions about the type of woman who is ideal for you, there are too many variables in the equation.   Over your many, many years of dating women, don't you think it odd that you never met Ms. Right.  I assert that you have met dozens of Ms. Right, yet you were too (fill in the blank) or she was too  (fill in the blank).   Have you filled in the blanks?   What do the answers say?

I find it odd that you think poor Latin American women  are rotten to the core, and have no chance of being Ms. Right.   Could it be that you brought out their darkside that would have remained dormant with another man?   I have done exactly that to a couple of women in my life, women who are perhaps "good" with another man.   

The foundation of a loving and happy marriage are mutual feelings, not physical features, traits and other "tangibles."    Attempting to explain how such emotions arise is akin to explaining where dreams come from.   Yes, there are psychological theories explaining them, yet those theories fly out the window when you meet Ms. Right. 

And Ms. Right is not perfect.  When you do meet Ms. Right and are lucky enough to develop true love, you will not notice her imperfections.  Further, you will want her to be happy doing what she wants to do.  It could be a professional career, raising children (which if done correctly is more demanding of her time than a professional career), pursuing hobbies different from yours, or something else or combinations thereof. 

And if you love her you will give her freedom to fly each day.  And unless they are catatonic,  women will fly even from a gilded cage.   And if she is an immigrant, she will discover a world that she never envisioned.  When that happens,.   all your prior talks about values and goals will matter little.  If you love her, you will rejoice in her discoveries and how she changes in response to them.  And if she loves you, she will find time to wash and massgae your feet, maybe even a pedicure. 
 

[Doll]

Doll, you've certainly missed a lot!
 
BillyB just married the 18y.o. tall-blond-gorgeous--model looking Ukrainian girl who seemingly agrees to play  the "classically traditional marriage" game. Go check out his thread "Life Changes Part Two", he posted lots of photos.

What page?

[Doll]

I'm sorry but your incorrect.  MY answer WAS about Tim.  It was Tim's statement, Tim's question.   I have a long history with Tim and my answer, my reply, WAS about, and to, Tim.

Ok, got it, sir 

[possum]

What page?

My sentiments exactly!

[Gator]

Rivardco,
 
You have many good years remaining, hopefully your best.   Rather than continuing your past lifestyle it seems that you want a to enjoy these years with a woman.  That is the law of our species IMO (psychaitrists say we are hardwired to live as couples). 
 
Up to now you have disobeyed this law.  However, up to now you have led an interesting life.   To tell your story would probably take installments, some of which we should not reveal (especially those with the initials DR).       Why have you now changed?   
 
 

[pitbull]

Rivardco,

Me thinks that you analyze too much and stereotype too much. 

Although you may have preconceptions about the type of woman who is ideal for you, there are too many variables in the equation.   Over your many, many years of dating women, don't you think it odd that you never met Ms. Right.  I assert that you have met dozens of Ms. Right, yet you were too (fill in the blank) or she was too  (fill in the blank).   Have you filled in the blanks?   What do the answers say?

I find it odd that you think poor Latin American women  are rotten to the core, and have no chance of being Ms. Right.   Could it be that you brought out their darkside that would have remained dormant with another man?   I have done exactly that to a couple of women in my life, women who are perhaps "good" with another man.   

The foundation of a loving and happy marriage are mutual feelings, not physical features, traits and other "tangibles."    Attempting to explain how such emotions arise is akin to explaining where dreams come from.   Yes, there are psychological theories explaining them, yet those theories fly out the window when you meet Ms. Right. 

And Ms. Right is not perfect.  When you do meet Ms. Right and are lucky enough to develop true love, you will not notice her imperfections.  Further, you will want her to be happy doing what she wants to do.  It could be a professional career, raising children (which if done correctly is more demanding of her time than a professional career), pursuing hobbies different from yours, or something else or combinations thereof. 

And if you love her you will give her freedom to fly each day.  And unless they are catatonic,  women will fly even from a gilded cage.   And if she is an immigrant, she will discover a world that she never envisioned.  When that happens,.   all your prior talks about values and goals will matter little.  If you love her, you will rejoice in her discoveries and how she changes in response to them.  And if she loves you, she will find time to wash and massgae your feet, maybe even a pedicure.

Great post, Gator! Hopefully the OP is able to experience love though. So far his posts remind me of "A puppy of which breed should I buy so that it fits my lifestyle, never chews on my shoes, doesn't shed much, loves me unconditionally and always, but goes to sit quietly in its crate when I'm too bust playing, etc..."

[Doll]

My sentiments exactly!

Found and read it. Mama mia!!!!!!!!!! Almost spilt my tea on the keyboard.
Holy cow!

[mies]

Found and read it. Mama mia!!!!!!!!!! Almost spilt my tea on the keyboard.
Holy cow!

 
i particularly liked the girl in worker's robe scraping metal with silicone inch-long nails, earning bucks from her husband to send to her mom back in Ukraine. 

[Doll]

i particularly liked the girl in worker's robe scraping metal with silicone inch-long nails, earning bucks from her husband to send to her mom back in Ukraine.

it is very traditional 

[pitbull]

Found and read it. Mama mia!!!!!!!!!! Almost spilt my tea on the keyboard.
Holy cow!

Do you believe in miracles now?

I suggest the OP pays Billy for some "how to" lessons

[mies]

Do you believe in miracles now?

I suggest the OP pays Billy for some "how to" lessons

I agree, the money will be well-spent. And Billy will be able to pay some more to A. 

[mies]

it is very traditional 

well, the perfectly traditional way would be to do it while wearing 4" heeled pumps, but the climatic conditions probably didn't cooperate on that particular day, plus the safety rules might have been in place requiring non-pumps shoes. 
But otherwise, yes, I agree, this is the quintessence of a traditional russian/FSU wife. After all, in USSR asphalt pavers were usually women.



(this video also offers good illustration of romantic and non-cynical FSU women, not exposed to MOB scene).