Divorced RW experience of dating in the US.

[LAman]

I was lost between this 2 parts of conversation. Almost as if something is missing. If not, Visilisa assumed the guy was not interested because of his response.....which was not negative....just a positive thought.
He:
It is nice to have an independent feminist!
Me:
Good luck in your search then. There are a lot of them in the US:)
But what is with the constant harping of the word 'independent' in every sentence. It wasn't a joke( maybe using one time) he said it 4 times!!!!! Visilisa did mention first of being traditional......which is not same as being independent.....
If the guy was really interested.....he would have asked Visilisa what do you mean 'good luck in search'.....we are just beginning to know each other (you sound interesting)........no he put his tail between his legs and meekly went off.
Personally, I like women that speak their mind....strong willed independent thinkers......as long as they can respect other peoples thoughts also......
 

[Vasilisa]

I agree, I may be too quick to judge and that is why I think I should take a break.

The problem is that I was trying to be more loyal in the past but it never worked out, if it looked weird from the very beginning and I gave it a chance it never worked.

I saw red flags when I was dating my future husband but I was very loyal and always found a lot of explanations  for his behavior:that's probably because they are a friendly family, that's probably because he is a good son, that's probably because we misunderstood each other, that's probably because we are from different countries and see it different. NO!!!

It was because he was a selfish person and a mommy's boy. Period!
Now if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck then it's probably the duck!!!

I want it nice and smooth from the very beginning without any misunderstandings, etc. His profile was weird at some point, too, and I was disagree on something BUT I GAVE HIM A CHANCE WITH THE CONVERSATION AND IT DIDN'T WORK, HE SOUNDED EVEN MORE WEIRD IN HIS MESSAGE  I'd say good-bye to the guy who can see no difference between the 2 opposites and mentions strange things in his profile.

[Vasilisa]

Another things which I've already mentioned sevel times is that it's important to me to be on the same level with the guy.  in other words, MY FEELINGS. And when you are putting out conversation into parts you forget about it. It sounds like a nice thing to you, it doesn't sound like that to me.

It means we should understand each other even without words, just by looking at each other, we understand each other's jokes, etc. One word should give the whole explanation if needed. When I have to be sucked into the explanations of misunderstandings from the very beginning  who meant what that's not my man.

[Ranetka]

I want it nice and smooth from the very beginning without any misunderstandings, etc. His profile was weird at some point, too, and I was disagree on something BUT I GAVE HIM A CHANCE WITH THE CONVERSATION AND IT DIDN'T WORK, HE SOUNDED EVEN MORE WEIRD IN HIS MESSAGE  I'd say good-bye to the guy who can see no difference between the 2 opposites and mentions strange things in his profile.

Fair enough, it's just the part of conversation you quoted did not sound too weird to me.


I would not say you should accept something unacceptable to you, just wait a bit to be sure when it's not clear.


 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Another things which I've already mentioned sevel times is that it's important to me to be on the same level with the guy.  in other words, MY FEELINGS. And when you are putting out conversation into parts you forget about it. It sounds like a nice thing to you, it doesn't sound like that to me.

It means we should understand each other even without words, just by looking at each other, we understand each other's jokes, etc. One word should give the whole explanation if needed. When I have to be sucked into the explanations of misunderstandings from the very beginning  who meant what that's not my man.

I can only comment on my experience.  For me, it usually takes longer to know if I have a connection with someone.  A couple of written texts isn't enough for me.


If you are more worried about wasting time you might as well forget it.  You will be wasting your time.  If you decide to enjoy the process of meeting new people then it may work out a little better. 


I understand why you are doing the things you are doing.  I also like to learn from my mistakes.  I just think when it comes to people, you will get what you are looking for.  If you are looking for red flags you will find them in everyone you meet. 


Anyway, good luck!

[Gator]

Gator, in the 60-ies and 70-ies women were women and despite looking for free love they were seen as females by men. So this type of behavior looked new, fresh, different and cute.

Nowadays it is not cute anymore and women like this are not seen as cute independent ladies but as w-ores.

Couple of points.  I never suggested that you jump into bed with everyone.   Also, anyone who thinks of you as a "w-ore" is not worthy of your affection.
 

My ex MIL was like that, too: very "independent" in her words, using swear words from time to time, drinking beer, looking and acting like a guy, smoked but at the same time she never worked, even when we met she still laughed at
"princesses" with ladies' like behavior.

Does not sound like anyone I would have spent time with, even when she had high pointed breasts in the 60s and 70s.  White trash was still trash back then.

I don't think that women with the same type of behavior and appearance would be seen as good candidates for stay at home moms. Maybe in the 60-ies they did showing their protest to the society this way, not now.

Again, I suggest that you should be dating for fun, not looking for men to fulfill a fantasy.  The mother of my sons was a near "10" and had her choice of men.  She was Class Valedictorian too.  Somehow I caught her attention.  On our first date I bought a dozen steamed jumbo blue crabs and we went to my flat to eat them, I spread newspaper on my dining table, opened a nice bottle of chilled white, and we talked and laughed and engorged with crab all over our fingers.  She jumped my bones before I cleared the mess.  It was perfect.  It was not a protest. 
 
She was not looking for a relationship, and continued to date others, as did I.  We married 2 years later, and she  became a "stay at home" mom.     

[Gator]

If you are more worried about wasting time you might as well forget it.  You will be wasting your time.  If you decide to enjoy the process of meeting new people then it may work out a little better. 

I say "much" better.  At least Vasilisa will have an interesting conversation or two, perhaps get introduced to a different social circle, learn more about people in general and hopefully enjoy life more.
 
 

[Vasilisa]

I say "much" better.  At least Vasilisa will have an interesting conversation or two, perhaps get introduced to a different social circle, learn more about people in general and hopefully enjoy life more.
 
 

I don't know. So far it has an opposite effect on me.
For example I told to myself: this guy doesn't look so good. But he may not be that bad, you may be surprised, how about you give him a chance and know him better, don't judge a book by its cover.
So I gave him a chance and got married and abused and divorced.

Then I decided to give more chance to other men and met a stalker and a lot of nuts.

Last week I got that message from the guy and I didn't give him a bigger chance than the short  correspondence and what you wrote that it could have been misunderstanding and I should have given him a chance.
the question is why should I give any chances to anyone that doesn't look good? It didn't work in the past and i didn't bring anything other than dissapointment and trouble in my life?
How about I just stop it till the point I calm down and then keep looking for the one that looks good from the very beginning without giving second and third and 5-th chances to the multiple  guys I don't like.

[Vasilisa]

I can only comment on my experience.  For me, it usually takes longer to know if I have a connection with someone.  A couple of written texts isn't enough for me.

Ok, can you tell how many times it actually worked for you that the beginning of the conversation was bad , the profile looked weird and then you finally discovered a true gem?

[Patagonie]

I think Vassilia that you should take a break, there are too much tension in your writing about this topic. Till late in my life i was often not very happy with women, always waiting more than i think me desserving.

Finally few years ago i have changed, i have hardly work on me. I enjoy my relationship with women, i have discovered something new. I am in peace. And i am in peace with all my evils i hope. 

[Gator]

How about I just stop it till the point I calm down.....

You do seem wound up tight.    As Misha wrote:
 

Vasilisa, I would say that you come across a tad too serious right off the bat.

My guess is that almost 100% of RWD would say the same.   
 
You are smart in recognizing that you need a break. However, be sure to reflect on the past couple of years.  Discuss with friends.
 

     
...and then keep looking for the one that looks good from the very beginning without giving second and third and 5-th chances to the multiple  guys I don't like.

Nope.  Don't look!!!!!!   Don't put every man under the microscope as soon as you meet him.
 

You have much going in  your favor.  Looks, youth, intelligence....  The demand for these qualities is high.  Your time will come.  Relax, and enjoy life.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Ok, can you tell how many times it actually worked for you that the beginning of the conversation was bad , the profile looked weird and then you finally discovered a true gem?

I can't think of a girl I dated that I met with the intentions of being romantic.  They always came about from simply meeting people and enjoying conversations.  Interest and attraction built up from there until I found myself in a relationship with them. 


I don't do a lot of online dating so I can't help in that regards.  I found it a rather cold way to interact with people.  Maybe it is because women get a lot of messages from people who would not normally approach them in person.  I just found it difficult to start any dialog online.


I do think you should trust your instincts.  If your instincts tell you to walk away then walk away.  Trying it out probably won't work since you already have a preconceived notion that something is wrong.


From the conversation you posted earlier, I think that it was just a simple misunderstanding.  I do think you sounded very pleasant so I don't think that was a problem.

[Belvis]

the question is why should I give any chances to anyone that doesn't look good? It didn't work in the past and i didn't bring anything other than dissapointment and trouble in my life?
How about I just stop it till the point I calm down and then keep looking for the one that looks good from the very beginning without giving second and third and 5-th chances to the multiple  guys I don't like.

You're giving chances youself, not men.
When I've met my future wife in first time she thought: "Wow, he's midget with large nose". Midget is because she used to date pretty tall guys, and I'm 174 cm. About large nose I still have no guess why She decided it would be very impolite to kick me out immediately.
   You may have no better chances with the ones  that look good from the very beginning. Learning about men takes some time.

[Anotherkiwi]

...You may have no better chances with the ones  that look good from the very beginning. Learning about men takes some time.

Several responses spring to mind, but the obvious one is:
 
Maybe, but men will NEVER understand women!

[Avis]

Hi Vasilisa,


I read your thread carefully, and decided I need to leave a comment for you, which is not natural to me on this forum..


You're asking a question what you are doing wrong, and why it's not working.


My shrink used to tell me that The World is a mirror. It took me years to fully understand what she meant. The world is what you are. You attract wrong people (or you think they are wrong) because something is broken deep inside of you. Give yourself a break. Give yourself some time to heal.. Love yourself for what and who you are. I believe you need to let go of your heartbreak first.
Just have life for yourself. No men no cry


And when the right time comes, when you are mentally ready to trust again, I know you will enjoy the ride.


P.S. I was always judgmental of tattoos myself, I guess that's the bonus you get as a FSU bred it's a good irony the best man in my life has got loads of them and is my Husband now. You just never know

[Vasilisa]

My shrink used to tell me that The World is a mirror. It took me years to fully understand what she meant. The world is what you are. You attract wrong people (or you think they are wrong) because something is broken deep inside of you. Give yourself a break. Give yourself some time to heal.. Love yourself for what and who you are. I believe you need to let go of your heartbreak first.
Just have life for yourself. No men no cry

Yes, I agree.
But speaking of a mirror and the men. I was on a dating website recently and I found a very nice profile. I had a lot of romantic thoughts. Everything was wonderful and I was happy. We chatted online a little bit and then decided to talk by phone.
Ok, the first thing he told me is that he is not 35 as his profile says, but 49 and that he put this age by mistake and the system doesn't let him change this now. For some reason it never happens backwards, but it always happens that the system puts  younger age (i'd say it has happened to 2 or 3 men like that by now) but the system never puts older age. Ok, the age of the girls is "by 30", the system must have also put it that way by mistake.  And the system must have picked up his photo where he looks like he is 30. another thing the system did and doesn't let him change is his city where he lives and the marital status ("single" instead of "divorced") and after that you say women are cheaters!!!

The man sounded nice but I'd say what else to expect if this is the profile of a completely different person. what else is hidden by the system

But if the world is a mirror and i was happy how could all that happen then?

[newjason]

Ok, here is an example of the correspondence with  the guy who is amazingly educated according to his profile, the pictures are nice, he looks fine. It's one of the websites where Western men are looking for RW. I got registered last week. This is one of the first letters I got

He:
Vasilisa, you have a beautiful smile and a lovely aura! I hope you are enjoying the website.
Me:
thank you very much for your compliment, you seem to be a wonderful person, I'd love to know you better!!! As for my enjoying the website, well, I am new here so I don't know yet, I want to hope I will find my Man here:) I am pretty traditional and it's hard to find the right man when many men expect to see an independent feminist:)How was your weekend?
He:
It is nice to have an independent feminist!
Me:
Good luck in your search then. There are a lot of them in the US:)
He:
I thought you were Ok Sorry to have troubled you! Just when your independent as you have described we men get scared.
Ok enjoy your independence
I wish you much sucess! Your very cute so I am sure you will find the Independence that you desire!! Please enjoy

No, I am not kidding.
Now answer the question: what am I doing wrong?!

hello again Vasilisa

as someone who is quite your opposite, I have a pretty good idea of what it is..

better PM this.

[Lily]

Ok, here is an example of the correspondence with  the guy who is amazingly educated according to his profile, the pictures are nice, he looks fine. It's one of the websites where Western men are looking for RW. I got registered last week. This is one of the first letters I got

He:
Vasilisa, you have a beautiful smile and a lovely aura! I hope you are enjoying the website.
Me:
thank you very much for your compliment, you seem to be a wonderful person, I'd love to know you better!!! As for my enjoying the website, well, I am new here so I don't know yet, I want to hope I will find my Man here:) I am pretty traditional and it's hard to find the right man when many men expect to see an independent feminist:)How was your weekend?
He:
It is nice to have an independent feminist!
Me:
Good luck in your search then. There are a lot of them in the US:)
He:
I thought you were Ok Sorry to have troubled you! Just when your independent as you have described we men get scared.
Ok enjoy your independence
I wish you much sucess! Your very cute so I am sure you will find the Independence that you desire!! Please enjoy

No, I am not kidding.
Now answer the question: what am I doing wrong?!

May I try to comment this short correspondence. This is not to say that I know what did you do wrong here, but let me try.

It looks like he contacted you first with a couple of compliments. This is a good sign. Something in your pictures and profile caught his attention.

Now your reply. Actually his note 'hope that you enjoy the website', in my view, does not require a reaction from you. This is juct a polite meaningless note. You however complained that it is hard to find a good man, you also used a capital letter for the word 'man' which I am not sure would be perceived as you expected, plus, on the top of that, you mentioned 'independent feminist'. So, right away in the first email, you expressed a few negative things to a prospect.

His next note to you, in my cautious perception, looks like a tad of irony. He greeted you as an eventual 'independent feminist', probably based on your previously expressed opinion that men would want this kind of women. Perhaps a good answer to this would be something like, 'oh, this would be not quite my cup of tea'. You however chose to end the conversation altogether, and did it pretty abruptly. Nevertheless, he did a good job to write you a few comments, that basically gives you some keys to what you probably did wrong 

If I'd be in your shoes, if I am contacted first and the man looks promising to me, my reply would be something about him. I'd ask questions and make comments about him, I'd show my attention to HIM and anything that he likes, based on what is available in his profile. Zero complaints! No way!

Just my two cents...

[Vasilisa]

Lily, thank you for your opinion. But again, I have read his profile and saw his pictures and I can say, after this dialogue the missing part is "this guy is weird and I don't want him". Period. I don't want to know him better.
I wrote to the men first, now I am just taking a break, feel much better.

[calmissile]

May I try to comment this short correspondence. This is not to say that I know what did you do wrong here, but let me try.

It looks like he contacted you first with a couple of compliments. This is a good sign. Something in your pictures and profile caught his attention.

Now your reply. Actually his note 'hope that you enjoy the website', in my view, does not require a reaction from you. This is juct a polite meaningless note. You however complained that it is hard to find a good man, you also used a capital letter for the word 'man' which I am not sure would be perceived as you expected, plus, on the top of that, you mentioned 'independent feminist'. So, right away in the first email, you expressed a few negative things to a prospect.

His next note to you, in my cautious perception, looks like a tad of irony. He greeted you as an eventual 'independent feminist', probably based on your previously expressed opinion that men would want this kind of women. Perhaps a good answer to this would be something like, 'oh, this would be not quite my cup of tea'. You however chose to end the conversation altogether, and did it pretty abruptly. Nevertheless, he did a good job to write you a few comments, that basically gives you some keys to what you probably did wrong 

If I'd be in your shoes, if I am contacted first and the man looks promising to me, my reply would be something about him. I'd ask questions and make comments about him, I'd show my attention to HIM and anything that he likes, based on what is available in his profile. Zero complaints! No way!

Just my two cents...

+1

[Daveman]

Lily, thank you for your opinion. But again, I have read his profile and saw his pictures and I can say, after this dialogue the missing part is "this guy is weird and I don't want him". Period. I don't want to know him better.
I wrote to the men first, now I am just taking a break, feel much better.

They may also act weird because they are married.  I remember reading a statistic a few years ago which stated something like 60% (can't remember the exact figure, but do recall that it was surprisingly high) of men on dating sites are married, pretending to be single, and are looking for either phone/fantasy sex or real life encounters.


Seems RW on their local FSU sites have similar complaints.  Perhaps WM, overall, aren't as different as we like to believe..

[calmissile]

Another things which I've already mentioned sevel times is that it's important to me to be on the same level with the guy.  in other words, MY FEELINGS. And when you are putting out conversation into parts you forget about it. It sounds like a nice thing to you, it doesn't sound like that to me.

It means we should understand each other even without words, just by looking at each other, we understand each other's jokes, etc. One word should give the whole explanation if needed. When I have to be sucked into the explanations of misunderstandings from the very beginning  who meant what that's not my man.

Wow!  You sound like it might take a Russian speaking man to communicate with you  to your satisfaction.  We men are faced with the same problem every day with FSU women but we do not find them unsuitable because misunderstandings have to be explained and requires patience..

Some of our married members state that they still have misunderstandings even years after marriage.  Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic?

[Aloe]

Wow!  You sound like it might take a Russian speaking man to communicate with you  to your satisfaction.  We men are faced with the same problem every day with FSU women but we do not find them unsuitable because misunderstandings have to be explained and requires patience..

Some of our married members state that they still have misunderstandings even years after marriage.  Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic?

I don't think so.. When i was talking to men, with some people it was a misunderstanding after misunderstanding after misunderstanding. And with others there was 0 misunderstandings or very minor ones. I dunno how to explain that, just differences in perception i guess. It's just annoying if there are too many misunderstandings from the very beginning 

[newjason]

Doug,
Some people have the ability to which she is talking about, some don't.
When you have to explain your every word and it's context and meaning to a person, it gets quite tiresome. 
If you are going to spend your life with someone,
there should be a connection that is not heard, or seen,  but felt mutually.  When you have it,  it's amazing.  When you don't , well not so much.
Just because She hasn't met anyone who she has that connection with yet, doesn't mean that person is not out there.
Lowering your expectations is not how you find what you want and need in a mate.

[Aloe]

What a thoroughly depressing topic!! Situation seems so dire everywhere   I know a girl here in Belgium, she was on local dating sites when she was in college. She said she sent out a lot of letters, and she only got 2 types of response, 1. "I'm not interested in a student (no income person)" 2. "Go away bot/man/scammer, obviously you stole these photos". or she just got ignored. Horrible horrible. And you are echoing the same for american men now. They all want a woman to work like a horse bringing in the cash. Who is gonna watch the kiddies then?
   I'm not even sure if i ever wanna have a job at all But that's just not realistic in these times. WTB a ticket to the 50's (america plz, Russian 50's are depressing    )