Parasites, Cultural Differences, and other explanations

[ECOCKS]

Thanks to whoever first brought up that link to The Dawns Here Are Quiet!

I only wish I had seen it a decade ago.

[Vasilisa]

A husband "owes" his wife a college degree...  Why yes, by god, it's his responsibility - by virtue of marriage she becomes entitled to have her education AND all bills paid. 

Well, according to the law you are right, but according to the law of love...if I knew that I brought my husband (who I couldn't find in my own country) from abroad and I loved him  and I knew how much he left behind to be with me and how may difficulties he would have to go through even I take care of him would I make him go to a low paid job and insist on his paying the bills?!

 If  I realized for  sure that he is not going to be happy here for several years' time would  I bring him to my place?! No. I am not a sadist or egoist or something. I am sure that they discussed the plans before and I doubt that that was the plan.

Just another example of a spoilt immature guy who wanted a young pretty doll to play with and to show her to his friends. To me it also sounds like another example of the situation when the kid wants a pet to play with but someone else should clean the pet's litter box and feed him or , the better thing would be if the pet would take care of himself. If you know you can't take care of someone or something don't get it. 

[Daveman]

It seems to me that where (if) there is (mutual) love there is also (mutual) appreciation.  That is what is missing in the prevalent attitude.  In many of the FSUW around this and other fora there is basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything.  There is little wonder that those FSU immigrants who took a much more difficult path to the American Dream generally have little respect and large disdain for the MOB's.  That sense of entitlement is just plain ugly in any gender or nationality.

[ECOCKS]

It seems to me that where (if) there is (mutual) love there is also (mutual) appreciation.  That is what is missing in the prevalent attitude.  In many of the FSUW around this and other fora there is basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything.  There is little wonder that those FSU immigrants who took a much more difficult path to the American Dream generally have little respect and large disdain for the MOB's.  That sense of entitlement is just plain ugly in any gender or nationality.

 I have seen this attitude as well. The immediate reaction from the long-term immigrants who have been here rebuilding their lives seems less than cordial on first contact with those who come over via K1/K3.
 
 It's also interesting listening to some of the brides' opinions of their fellow countrymen working in real jobs. It certainly left an impression on me.

[Vasilisa]

It seems to me that where (if) there is (mutual) love there is also (mutual) appreciation.  That is what is missing in the prevalent attitude.  In many of the FSUW around this and other fora there is basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything.  There is little wonder that those FSU immigrants who took a much more difficult path to the American Dream generally have little respect and large disdain for the MOB's.  That sense of entitlement is just plain ugly in any gender or nationality.

Dave, if she is marrying you, she is marrying you, not the American government and not the opportunities.
Ater you brought her here she is your wife, not a Russian passport holder exposed to opportunities. Treat her as a wife, not as an immigrant who is obliged to you.

[pitbull]

It seems to me that where (if) there is (mutual) love there is also (mutual) appreciation.  That is what is missing in the prevalent attitude.  In many of the FSUW around this and other fora there is basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything.  There is little wonder that those FSU immigrants who took a much more difficult path to the American Dream generally have little respect and large disdain for the MOB's.  That sense of entitlement is just plain ugly in any gender or nationality.

Hmmm are you saying that most RW participants on RWD show "basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything."?
Overall, not sure how you came to this conclusion, my observations have been entirely different.
As to those other FSU immigrants and their "little respect and disdain for the MOBs", the explanation is quite simple - envy 

[Daveman]

Hmmm are you saying that most RW participants on RWD show "basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything."?
Overall, not sure how you came to this conclusion, my observations have been entirely different.
As to those other FSU immigrants and their "little respect and disdain for the MOBs", the explanation is quite simple - envy 

I believe the term I used was not "most" but rather "many".      Subtle yet distinct flavors there.  RWD is a little slice of different where the RW regulars are concerned.  Though we do have and have had many pass through these parts with that (and other bizarre) attitude(s)¹.  I have zero respect for anyone from anywhere in whom that ridiculous entitlement attitude exists².  Is mutual appreciation *really* that difficult of a concept to grasp?  There's just too little room for appreciation when one is primarily in a relationship with oneself³.








1. attitude is not gender specific
2. this includes all parts of the globe and beyond
3) side effects include soreness in the muscles of the hand, a brief sense of euphoria, and the possibility of early blindness.

[ghost of moon goddess]

Strange thread.


If economics (financial) was never a factor in these relationships, there never would've been a marriage industry. This is akin to diving into a pool and then be surprised you're wet.


The only parasitic mentality to me here is, knowing full well you're going to an economically-challenged region, which largely enables many-a-men to 'find' a wife, then be surprised and/or be defensive if the woman had some expectation of comfort and provisions.

If there is one thing I demand from a man craving for my love , it is honesty   

[vwrw]

P.S. Sorry if my post is too rude. But OP made me mad because I worked very hard on getting my degree here, I studied and took 18 credit per semester and worked in a large company in the same time. I had an excellent GPA and was a number one student in my class. I still work very hard at my professional job now. What I read, some guy is posting that Russian women are parasites. Common. There are tons of American Women that are fat and housewives. This is such sick OP. This is disgusting. The author should be ashamed of what he posted!!!

Ellen, women and sex are “trigger points” for the OP.  He seems sane until he starts talking about these two topics.  Once he was comparing wives (regardless of their nationality) to prostitutes. There were other comparisons of sick mind. I hope knowing this will help you read posts of the OP  without being emotionally disturbed by them. Remember his attitude is a result of the damage he incurred who knows when.

[vwrw]

From biology…. an organism cannot be classified as a parasite if other organism that hosts it benefits from the hosted organism in anyway. If both the hosting organism and the residing organism benefit in any way (it does not have to be the same way) from their interaction, this is called a mutually beneficial relationship.
Therefore, a person living at the expenses of other would be a parasite ONLY if the payer does not benefit somehow from the person.

[vwrw]

It seems to me that where (if) there is (mutual) love there is also (mutual) appreciation.  That is what is missing in the prevalent attitude.  In many of the FSUW around this and other fora there is basically zero appreciation, there is zero responsibility taken for anything.

Daveman, are you certain that appreciation is lacking? Or maybe what is lacking is verbal appreciation. For example, every day I feel a huge appreciation for everything my husband has been doing for me. From time to time, I verbally express it, but mostly i just work hard to do something for him. Since i verbalize my appreciation only from time to time, it may appear as there is disproportional amount of it. However, you had "special glasses" which would allow you to see how I feel, you would know that what appears to you without those glasses  does not  reflect the true amount of my appreciation.

I believe the same is true about many other FSUW. What is missing is a constant verbalization of appreciation, not appreciation itself.

[vwrw]

One important thing that  Americans who complain about lack of appreciation in FSU people do not seem to understand is that many FSU people do not say "thank you" as often as they do because  FSU people place different value on it. For example, if i do something good for someone and the recipient smiles in return or says "it was a nice thing. " Period. I would NEVER ever even notice that the recipient did not say "thank you" And i assure you my enjoyment of the fact that i had done something good for the person will NOT diminish even a little bit. Nor would "thank you" increase my enjoyment. Because i do not do things  to be appreciated ( it is an external incentive) but because of my desire to have done something for the person ( it is an internal motive). I believe this is true about many FSU people.

What i am trying to say is that if [/size]many [/size]FSU people do not feel the need to hear "thank you" and they treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, they may consider "thank you" to be not that[/size] important since mentioning or not mentioning of it does not affect themselves one way or another. 

[ECOCKS]

While most of the responses from across the sea (and the new guy's story about Yana, the entitlement junkie) are bearing out the reality of these cultural and environmentally-influenced situations, it's a worthy question whether this relationship is parasitic or symbiotic.

It's parasitic if the host collapses at the point of disconnect, requiring rest and recovery (physical, emotional or financial) for a period of time before returning to normal. The stories of financial ruin, illness and depression seem to be far more common than "Yeah we used each other for awhile. I got the unfettered use of her body and she got open access to my wallet. It was great while it lasted, now I am gonna find another!"

It's only symbiotic where both parties benefit AND NO HARM COMES TO EITHER. While I have come to believe that this can happen theoretically I just don't see it much. Hugh Heffner and Donald Trump appear capable of this type of relationship but "normal" guys? Uh-uh.

[vwrw]

It's parasitic if the host collapses at the point of disconnect, requiring rest and recovery (physical, emotional or financial) for a period of time before returning to normal.

NO, it is not. For example, let's look at a leech. A leech sucks blood from its host and does not return any benefit to the host. If you got a leech while swimming somewhere, it is a parasite. If, however, you got the leech from a witch doctor and let it on your body, then it is medicine and like it is with a placebo, it can heal something in somebody.  Now let's assume that the patient collapses at the point of disconnect the "treatment " from his body, Who is the party to blame here? if i was the patient , i would blame myself because I am the ultimate decision maker who let the leech on my body. I had to educate myself better before doing it. I had to ask for second opinion from a diffident witch doctor.
[/size]

The same about men, educate yourselves better before getting in anything you have little understanding about.

[vwrw]

Good for you!  You have ALWAYS struck me as a very sensible and well balanced human being ... now more than ever.   You kick ass girl LOL

Thank you for your favorable appraisal. 

[ECOCKS]

NO, it is not. For example, let's look at a leech. A leech sucks blood from its host and does not return any benefit to the host. If you got a leech swimming somewhere, it is a parasite. If, however, you got the leech from a witch doctor and let it on your body, then it is medicine and like it is with a placebo, it can heal something in somebody.  Now let's assume that the patient collapses at the point of disconnect the "treatment " from his body, Who is the party to blame here? if i was the patient , i would blame myself because I am the ultimate decision maker who let the leech on my body. I had to educate myself better before doing it. I had to ask for second opinion from a diffident witch doctor.


The same about men, educate myself better before getting in anything you have little understanding about.

Dead wrong.

If the host is damaged at the end of the relationship, it's a parasite.

You can try to rationalize that you traded your money, home, citizenship access, whatever for her body and the admiration of your peers but if you are injured by the relationship then that's what it was.

A leech is a parasite but is not being parasitic just by swimming. When it attaches, sucks the blood out and you suffer the pain of detaching it or the debilitating effects of the loss of blood it's a parasite.

When the hospital treats localized blood infection by applying leeches on the affected area it's symbiosis (unless the poor leech dies from the infected blood).

And if you let a witch doctor put leeches randomly on your body that's simply two crazy people sharing a psychoses which results in two parasitic relationships: 1. the patient and the leech 2. the patient and the witch doctor

[Daveman]

One important thing that  Americans who complain about lack of appreciation in FSU people do not seem to understand is that many FSU people do not say "thank you" as often as they do because  FSU people place different value on it. For example, if i do something good for someone and the recipient smiles in return or says "it was a nice thing. " Period. I would NEVER ever even notice that the recipient did not say "thank you" And i assure you my enjoyment of the fact that i had done something good for the person will NOT diminish even a little bit. Nor would "thank you" increase my enjoyment. Because i do not do things  to be appreciated ( it is an external incentive) but because of my desire to have done something for the person ( it is an internal motive). I believe this is true about many FSU people.

What i am trying to say is that if many FSU people do not feel the need to hear "thank you" and they treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, they may consider "thank you" to be not that important since mentioning or not mentioning of it does not affect themselves one way or another. 

vwrw, I understand the point you are making yet we are  actually comparing cause to effect (not apples to oranges but more like apple tree to apple).  I am discussing the attitude, or "feeling", or "state" or whatever terminology preferred, you are describing and comparing results/actions of that state/attitude/feeling.


For me, it's *all* about the attitude.  I can easily sense in a partner if she appreciates me, with or without a verbalized "thank you", and so can everyone else if they just pay attention to all forms of attitude conveyance, verbalization being one. 


Is it wise for husband OR wife to support the other for educational purposes?  That depends on the situation, and most of the time I'd say "yes it certainly is". Is it obligatory by sole virtue of marriage that, if married, the male spouse automatically acquires the duty and obligation to pay for an advanced education? absolutely, positively not. 


THAT is an entitlement attitude and the situation would be a form of entitlement program. 

[LAman]

Thank you for your favorable appraisal.

I think it was verbal appreciation......

[Daveman]

Thank you for your favorable appraisal.

Live long and prosper!     

[IAmZon]

LOL - I know a guy in Colombia that is a land owner.  His wife - 20 years younger - brought up the idea of going to college.  The guy said: "I will pay for the tuition and the gas, but you will no longer be my wife."    Topic dropped.


I am not saying THAT is right ... I'm just saying

[mies]

LOL - I know a guy in Colombia that is a land owner.  His wife - 20 years younger - brought up the idea of going to college.  The guy said: "I will pay for the tuition and the gas, but you will no longer be my wife."    Topic dropped.


I am not saying THAT is right ... I'm just saying

What an awful man.

[mies]

One of the things I make clear is that for the majority of American households it is necessary for both spouses to work to enjoy the American dream.  There are exceptions for the wealthy, but I make it clear that I am not wealthy and my wife would need to work, just like most American women.

I was surprised at the responses.  It eliminated a fair number of women, however the positive ones replied "of course I expect to work. I understand what you say".  One English professor in Ukraine teases me whenever she comes on Skype and asks  "Have you found me a job yet?"   Several others began asking what kind of work might be available for her in the US.

This was somewhat of an experiment for me to see what kind of respnses I would get as well as to lay the cards out on the table from the beginning.

I am also amazed at the kind of responses I have been getting from the free dating sites.  I had not used them before.  Currenty there are 4 University English teachers, 3 doctors, and a host of other very well educated women that seem very sincere.  Of course I am looking at  ages 40 and up so that might have a bearing on the kind of responses I am getting.  So far only a couple of scammers.

Now, the challenge will be the logistics of how to travel all over Ukraine to meet the final selections. 

For FSU university English teachers and for doctors it is be especially easy to find work in USA. Oh yes it is.
Maybe you can create alternative profile, and write there something along the lines:

I expect that my wife will be earning money and splitting family bills. If she comes from FSU, likely, she will not be able to get a job within her field, especially if she is doctor, or University English professor (or any university professor for that matter). Therefore, these highly educated women will need to take another job, not in their field, probably an unqualified or blue-collar job. Same as women without any education are getting in USA. But I still expect them to take this job because I want my wife to earn money. Dear future wife, please before writing me think if you are ready to work as a cashier or do cleaning for living. 

calmissile, how much do you know about the requirements and employment process for university professors or medical doctors in USA?

Generally, my reaction to this thread is: if you think Russian women are ungrateful parasites, please do us a favor, marry American women who do not expect the guy to pay for them.

[Daveman]

Generally, my reaction to this thread is: if you think Russian women are ungrateful parasites, please do us a favor, marry American women who do not expect the guy to pay for them.

Yes, I do think many RW, at least in the group of those who search abroad for a husband, are exactly that - ungrateful parasites.  I merely suggest to avoid them like the plague they are and find more "down to earth" ladies who actually value and appreciate husband and family as the top treasure in life (and of course, suggest that the women look for the same in a man). Then anything else is the icing on the cake of the mutually supportive and mutually fulfilling process of building a life *together*. 

[Misha]

Currenty there are 4 University English teachers

Mies is right, this is probably the worst specialization for a FSU woman to have hoping to find a job in North America. If these women were professors in chemistry, physics or mathematics, they might have a chance, but there is no demand for Professors of English who did not study in North America (or Great Britain, Australia or New Zealand) and do not have English as their mother-tongue 

[Misha]

I merely suggest to avoid them like the plague they are and find more "down to earth" ladies who actually value and appreciate husband and family as the top treasure in life (and of course, suggest that the women look for the same in a man). Then anything else is the icing on the cake of the mutually supportive and mutually fulfilling process of building a life *together*.

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