scammed by yeva4u

[CDW]

Fillip came to Kharkov and dated several ladies at the same time and it is fine.

Lots different between dating several ladies who do not have boyfriends and dating several ladies who already have boyfriends!

I wouldn't want to date any ladies who already have boyfriends.  I prefer to date ladies who are 100% free!  If the ladies have already dated other men, that's fine with me as long as they aren't committed to each other.

[bruttus]

Most here are focusing on calling Bruttus stupid and a loser for going  on about a woman who chose someone else.  And if it were only about that, I would agree.

But scamming and fraud (while furthered by romance or hopes of such) are ultimately about money.

So, in my mind, that is the only thing that this discussion should be about.  And  I am not saying  there was any scamming or fraud.

But to ascertain scams or fraud in this case, Bruttus can start by clarifying some variables.

1. Did you pay for previous translation and English lessons for the gal, or did you arrange to pay for future translation and English lessons for the gal?

2. If yes to number 1, who was this money paid to or arranged to be paid to?

3. Who helped you find the person to pay the money to for past work and for future planned work?

4. Who helped you arrange the payment of the money?

5. As I understand from your previous posts, this money would have been paid from your paypal account had you not taken action to stop the payments when you learned, on your own,  that the gal had already  chosen another man.  Is this an accurate statement of the facts as you understand them?

6. You believe that persons, other than the gal in question, knew fully that the gal had chosen another man, and yet were going to keep this  info from you so that the payments would start or continue for translation work and English lessons.  Is this true?

7. What is the name of the other persons who knew these facts, yet did not tell you?

1) i payd for the first time a talk tru skype with Mila and that girl about 50 USD for an hour,
2) Mila
3) if i understand the question correctly, Mila
4)Mila
5) second time, yes, it was ready to sent the money to Mila, if she notify when the girl was ready to talk, after i found out, i sended the money back to mine bankaccount
how much, 300 USD for here english lessons, 50 USD for talking with skype and 65 USd for here B-day gift, so more then enough
6) yes, i believe that, this person knew that this gal was dating with other guy, but didn't told that info, so i could make that decision
on the other hand, what i didn't inform to these members, because i tought that it was not importante info, is that the genuine girl here best friend, on the moment that i found out, already was in that guy's fb friendlist
so yes, from how i see it and how i was treatend by Mila when i asked any info about it, i strongly believe that all this info was kept so that this genuine girl with Mila, had some great time

Lots different between dating several ladies who do not have boyfriends and dating several ladies who already have boyfriends!

I wouldn't want to date any ladies who already have boyfriends.  I prefer to date ladies who are 100% free!  If the ladies have already dated other men, that's fine with me as long as they aren't committed to each other.

thanks, that is what i wanted to say

@Mila, i'm stubborn if i feel that there was injustice happend towards me, thats why i can't let it go easely
i fought hard against YEVA4U against those scammers, i have proven allot of members of RWD wrong,
that is mine strenght, proving that something what looks imposible, can be be posible, and i don't mind to help others with it, for free
when i was in Kharkov, from all the lady's that you have introduced me, and you and even your husband, i treatend all of them with respect, i invited your husband to come and enjoy the swimmingday's, the day that i cookt food
i give to that girl mine silver bracelet, the last thing that i have from mine grandmother, to let here know that i made mine decision, even then you said nothing
so btw, i'm still waiting when you give that back
and wasn't not you Mila, if i say a bad thing about you, that i never going to see mine silver bracelet back
that you saw me as a loser, is your lose

[facetrock]

Wow this is something.
 After reading this I've come to the conclusion the more logic and common sense you throw at Bruttus the more he loves denying it. I wont even try. Its all been said.
 Bruttus has no game. Obvious

[Muzh]

Yikes!

Sad.

Another example of a social inept's stab at a business transaction go south.

The worst part is he cannot see it.

Sad.

[Russian_Bear]

Guys!! You should less trust all these marriage agencies!! The only goal for lots of them is just to get money by cheating you. There are "special girls" who work specially for such agencies and everyone ( both girls and an agency ) get their profit. If you are asked at once for paying some money for Skype etc.. 100% that your heart and your trust to FSU women will be broken. Believe me, there are a lot of softwares like translators  ( even Google translator ) that help people to communicate. Everything just depends on desire of both persons. Just think of a price for Skype! To get a teacher of English would cost much much less ( I mean to help with Skype ). Try to think sometimes! And try to find your girl on your own. I had written that it is a harder way, but a result will be better And remember, if someone asks you for money - you should think a lot before giving it! As for me, any marriage agency is the last spot I visit looking for a bride 

[Muzh]

Guys!! You should less trust all these marriage agencies!! The only goal for lots of them is just to get money by cheating you. There are "special girls" who work specially for such agencies and everyone ( both girls and an agency ) get their profit. If you are asked at once for paying some money for Skype etc.. 100% that your heart and your trust to FSU women will be broken. Believe me, there are a lot of softwares like translators  ( even Google translator ) that help people to communicate. Everything just depends on desire of both persons. Just think of a price for Skype! To get a teacher of English would cost much much less ( I mean to help with Skype ). Try to think sometimes! And try to find your girl on your own. I had written that it is a harder way, but a result will be better And remember, if someone asks you for money - you should think a lot before giving it! As for me, any marriage agency is the last spot I visit looking for a bride 

Wouldn't it be a LOT safer for the two of the to be able to communicate without the help of a translator?

[Russian_Bear]

Wouldn't it be a LOT safer for the two of the to be able to communicate without the help of a translator?

I am sorry for my English as I can understand something wrong. If you mean a some person as a translator, I think it would be better not to use such help. Of course, there might be exceptions where some two persons had not communicated a lot before and someone of them wants to get more information about the other person. But if they had been communicating enough via e-mails ( or maybe chatting ) - yes, that's hard but possible ( maybe using some softwares or looking for and having found some friends, who could help with writing e-mails ) - I suppose there are no topics, needing any help from aside. If there is such difficulties with a language, I suppose there is no necessity of discussing policy, scientific events etc. But to talk about feelings ( or something like that ) with some "third person".. It wouldn't work with me I just wanted to say that if some woman says she wants to talk via Skype and at once ask a man for money for using a translator.. Well, I would think she ( or they ) just wants my money. Maybe I am wrong.. It has to be a rule - if a woman drags you to any expensive shop and then "I want this and this and that..." You will get nothing but a headache and empty wallet 

[mies]

this is the copy of the moneytransfer
i made the person and mine name black
whille it was agreed 250 USD/month, i think that they didn't thought that they had to pay extra cost to sending the money tru western union

Bruttus, you marked black the name of the person, but left her date of birth and the passport number for anyone to see. You may want to delete it too. Passport information normally isn't supposed to be distributed freely.

[Muzh]

I am sorry for my English as I can understand something wrong. If you mean a some person as a translator, I think it would be better not to use such help. Of course, there might be exceptions where some two persons had not communicated a lot before and someone of them wants to get more information about the other person. But if they had been communicating enough via e-mails ( or maybe chatting ) - yes, that's hard but possible ( maybe using some softwares or looking for and having found some friends, who could help with writing e-mails ) - I suppose there are no topics, needing any help from aside. If there is such difficulties with a language, I suppose there is no necessity of discussing policy, scientific events etc. But to talk about feelings ( or something like that ) with some "third person".. It wouldn't work with me I just wanted to say that if some woman says she wants to talk via Skype and at once ask a man for money for using a translator.. Well, I would think she ( or they ) just wants my money. Maybe I am wrong.. It has to be a rule - if a woman drags you to any expensive shop and then "I want this and this and that..." You will get nothing but a headache and empty wallet 

Okay, this is a classic example. Your English is pretty good as you were able to understand the meaning of my question. Now what would have happened if I used an electronic translator and had said this?




Не було б набагато безпечніше для двох, щоб мати можливість спілкуватися без допомоги перекладача?


Does it say the same?


Notice I said translator which can be human or electronic.


Now, get into more personal statements.

[Muzh]

Not to mention that most of the time, we are not very clear about what we try to say, as you saw above. 

[mies]

Would you if you were in his shoes?  I can understand how he felt, but you, Stirlitz cannot.  Maybe it is your habit to steal other men's girlfriends

Here is a woman's viewpoint. When I met my husband I had several "standing" marriage offers from other guys. One of these guys I've met 5 years prior to meeting my husband.
So then I met my husband and married him. I actually received a phone call on the day of my wedding, 10 minutes before I were to leave my apartment to go to ZAGS, from one of my male friends (who didn't know it was my wedding day) who told me he wants to spend his life with me and we need to talk. I replied to him "I am going to the wedding", he asked me "whose wedding?" and I replied "my wedding." We haven't spoke since.

I'd love to see all WMs taken to court when they write many visit many RWs.
Oh my, *George* met Anna from Zaporozhye in January 2011, and after that he met with Victoria from Nikolaev in August 2011. Anna at first didn't look much interested in him because he wasn't her first choice, she had her eye on the handsome 35yo Wall Street investor with whom she was corresponding. But after the investor turned out to be a hoax, she suddenly wrote to *George* and told him she thinks about him all the time, and cannot forget how nice he was, and she thinks she may be in love with him. So *George* broke up with Victoria from Nikolaev and married Anna from Zaporozhye. Anna always was his first choice, stunning beauty, kindest soul, sweetest heart, a good wife material at her 20 with strong teeth and great smile, unlike Victoria in her 35 with a kid and teeth in need of bleaching. Now Victoria is thinking of taking the matter to court. She spent 8 months on futile correspondence with *George*, has to bear humiliation of answering the questions from her child and relatives, to whom *George* already had been introduced as her future husband. She has to explain to her child why they will not be coming to USA, even though for the past 6 months all the talks were about the new school, the new friends, and the nice new bicycle the child would get as a relocation gift. Huge moral trauma for Victoria and her family. Plus, Victoria spent money on gifts to George and on the trip to Kiev to meet him there. Total of her 4 monthly salaries. She believes *George* has to compensate her for all of these.
*George* opens his computer/mailbox one morning, freshly out of the bed with beautiful Anna, reads Victoria's demands to compensate her all her expenses and moral harm, and thinks to himself: "Victoria, are you nuts?"

CDW, a woman is not a piece of meat, or a fancy decor item. You cannot STEAL her. If she loves another man, she will never leave him. If she doesn't love the man - eventually she will leave him, or will make his (and her) life miserable if for social/economic reasons she can't leave him. You really need to start viewing woman as a human being, technically, equal to you in all human rights and general features.

[Hammer2722]

Here is a woman's viewpoint. When I met my husband I had several "standing" marriage offers from other guys. One of these guys I've met 5 years prior to meeting my husband.
So then I met my husband and married him. I actually received a phone call on the day of my wedding, 10 minutes before I were to leave my apartment to go to ZAGS, from one of my male friends (who didn't know it was my wedding day) who told me he wants to spend his life with me and we need to talk. I replied to him "I am going to the wedding", he asked me "whose wedding?" and I replied "my wedding." We haven't spoke since.

I'd love to see all WMs taken to court when they write many visit many RWs.
Oh my, *George* met Anna from Zaporozhye in January 2011, and after that he met with Victoria from Nikolaev in August 2011. Anna at first didn't look much interested in him because he wasn't her first choice, she had her eye on the handsome 35yo Wall Street investor with whom she was corresponding. But after the investor turned out to be a hoax, she suddenly wrote to *George* and told him she thinks about him all the time, and cannot forget how nice he was, and she thinks she may be in love with him. So *George* broke up with Victoria from Nikolaev and married Anna from Zaporozhye. Anna always was his first choice, stunning beauty, kindest soul, sweetest heart, a good wife material at her 20 with strong teeth and great smile, unlike Victoria in her 35 with a kid and teeth in need of bleaching. Now Victoria is thinking of taking the matter to court. She spent 8 month on futile correspondence with *George*, has to bear humiliation of answering the questions from her child and relatives, to whom *George* already had been introduced as her future husband. She has to explain to her child why they will not be coming to USA, even though for the past 6 months all the talks were about the new school, the new friends, and the nice new bicycle the child would get as a relocation gift. Huge moral trauma for Victoria and her family. Plus, Victoria spent money on gifts to George and on the trip to Kiev to meet him there. Total of her 4 monthly salaries. She believes *George* has to compensate her for all of these.
*George* opens his computer/mailbox one morning, freshly out of the bed with beautiful Anna, reads Victoria's demands to compensate her all her expenses and moral harm, and thinks to himself: "Victoria, are you nuts?"

CDW, a woman is not a piece of meat. You cannot STEAL her. If she loves another man, she will never leave him. If she doesn't love the man - eventually she will leave him, or will make his (and her) life miserable if for social/economic reasons she can't leave him. You really need to start viewing woman as a human being, technically, equal to you in all human rights and general features.

I still don't think he will get it. To him, its all about revenge for being "tricked and humiliated". I went through the same thing myself on my first trip only to a very good pro-dater. Only difference is I moved on knowing that it would not do me any good trying to get revenge. Only make me even more bitter.

[mies]

I still don't think he will get it. To him, its all about revenge for being "tricked and humiliated". I went through the same thing myself on my first trip only to a very good pro-dater. Only difference is I moved on knowing that it would not do me any good trying to get revenge. Only make me even more bitter.

I know. One of my suitors, whom I have been ignoring (to the extent possible) for years, eventually sent me a delirious letter telling that I am a heartless b-ch who tricked him with my looks into loving me, plaid with his heart, and that i'm just like all those bad women who scam men for emotions and money to get nice things in life and to go to expensive restaurants. So I asked him to tell me when exactly I scammed him for money, and what money did he ever spent on me except for flowers that he was leaving on my doorsteps when I was refusing to take them. He responded with: "you understood it all wrong, I wasn't calling YOU a b-tch, some people interpret this word differently." How cute is that? There apparently are different interpretations of many words...     I'm still waiting for the follow-up from him on where I can pick up my diamonds, luxury cars, and keys to elite real estate, that he presumable gave me, since I'm a pro-dater who scammed him for emotions and money. I suppose he's still thinking how to answer my question, no reply followed.       


The problem is that men are conditioned by society to think that THEY are the ones who are CHOOSING. They believe, at some level, that if they chose the woman, she will say "yes." And if she suddenly makes her choice not in their favor, they feel offended and take it personally. Do you know many couples in which the woman would propose to marry, not the man? The couples where the woman would give the guy a ring and say "would you marry me?" I know none, that is none such proposals that resulted in marriage. In a few couples where women did something similar, their male partners said they needed time to think and weren't ready to marry (although they were already living together), and eventually the couples broke up.
The society still deprives the woman of freedom of choice. And when the woman does make her choice some men suddenly feel offended. Welcome to our (women's) world, guys. You don't always get whom you want, because you aren't the only ones who can choose.

[Muzh]

The problem is that men are conditioned by society to think that THEY are the ones who are CHOOSING. They believe, at some level, that if they chose the woman, she will say "yes." And if she suddenly makes her choice not in their favor, they feel offended and take it personally.

I believe I said this some time ago and a plague of locusts fell on me. Or was that when the frogs started to rain on me?


Anyway, how true. +100

[mies]

About genuine intentions, to me this one looks quite genuine:
"Also beginning to plan a trip to Russia with no expectations except to have fun with a local girl."

Should all RWs who were "had fun with" also somehow try to get their wasted time reimbursed?

[Chelseaboy]

Tell me Mies,
 
                  Do foreign men invite FSU women to their countries,at the womans expense,so she'll have to pay her airfare and for an apartment, just to make money out of those women,even though the foreign man may well already be married,although he tells the woman he's seriously interested in her as his future wife ?
 
Do foreign men insist that the woman uses the mans interpreter at USD 15 an hour,which she has to pay for,thereby in effect making the  woman pay to date the man,even if the man secretly speaks her language ok ?
Do the foreign men expect the FSU woman to pay for his interpreters expensive restaurant meals,as well as his,at restaurants where he gets commision on the bill ?
 
Do foreign men have their own driver and taxi organised,so that FSU women will be paying an inflated price for their journeys together,which will earn the man more money ?
 
Do foreign men suggest they arrange the apartment for the FSU woman,so the man can push the price up and pocket the difference ?
 
Do the foreign men take these FSU women shopping,expecting the women to buy him a new suit or pair of shoes ?
 
When the FSU woman returns back to her own country,does the foreign man ask her for money to treat his sudden illness,or for Russian language lessons,while he's busily inviting other FSU women to his country,at their expense, to make money out of them ?
 
No,thought not.
 
When foreign men start doing this,then you can compare the two situations .
 
You see,unlike a lot of the Sir Galahads/nancy boys on here,i don't think the sun shines out of FSU womens backsides.
 
I prefer to tell it as it is.
 
Many  on here were saying the OP was stupid,and had no chance of getting his money back from that scam agency and it's girls..well they were wrong.
 

[Boethius]

Tell me Mies,
 
                  Do foreign men invite FSU women to their countries,at the womans expense,so she'll have to pay her airfare and for an apartment, just to make money out of those women,even though the foreign man may well already be married,although he tells the woman he's seriously interested in her as his future wife ?
 
Do foreign men insist that the woman uses the mans interpreter at USD 15 an hour,which she has to pay for,thereby in effect making the  woman pay to date the man,even if the man secretly speaks her language ok ?
Do the foreign men expect the FSU woman to pay for his interpreters expensive restaurant meals,as well as his,at restaurants where he gets commision on the bill ?
 
Do foreign men have their own driver and taxi organised,so that FSU women will be paying an inflated price for their journeys together,which will earn the man more money ?
 
Do foreign men suggest they arrange the apartment for the FSU woman,so the man can push the price up and pocket the difference ?
 
Do the foreign men take these FSU women shopping,expecting the women to buy him a new suit or pair of shoes ?
 
When the FSU woman returns back to her own country,does the foreign man ask her for money to treat his sudden illness,or for Russian language lessons,while he's busily inviting other FSU women to his country,at their expense, to make money out of them ?
 
No,thought not.
 
When foreign men start doing this,then you can compare the two situations .
 
You see,unlike a lot of the Sir Galahads/nancy boys on here,i don't think the sun shines out of FSU womens backsides.
 
I prefer to tell it as it is.
 
Many  on here were saying the OP was stupid,and had no chance of getting his money back from that scam agency and it's girls..well they were wrong.

1.  Foreign men have been doing that, by going to the FSU at the height of economic instability and throwing around money as if they were big bosses.


2.  Foreign men have, since the collapse of the FSU, gone as sex tourists, often promising women new lives to bed and dump them.


3.  Some tour operators, catering to middle aged men, tell their clients, with a wink that the age of consent in Ukraine is 17.


In light of all of the above, why would an FSUW have sympathy for any foreign man?  She lumps them together, the way you do FSUW.

[bruttus]

Bruttus, you marked black the name of the person, but left her date of birth and the passport number for anyone to see. You may want to delete it too. Passport information normally isn't supposed to be distributed freely.

sorry,
I'm not used to receive money from Western Union, and especially when it is in Cyrillic writtings

[mies]

Tell me Mies,
 
    (1)              Do foreign men invite FSU women to their countries,at the womans expense,so she'll have to pay her airfare and for an apartment, just to make money out of those women,even though the foreign man may well already be married,although he tells the woman he's seriously interested in her as his future wife ?
 
(2) Do foreign men insist that the woman uses the mans interpreter at USD 15 an hour,which she has to pay for,thereby in effect making the  woman pay to date the man,even if the man secretly speaks her language ok ?
Do the foreign men expect the FSU woman to pay for his interpreters expensive restaurant meals,as well as his,at restaurants where he gets commision on the bill ?
 
(3) Do foreign men have their own driver and taxi organised,so that FSU women will be paying an inflated price for their journeys together,which will earn the man more money ?
 
(4) Do foreign men suggest they arrange the apartment for the FSU woman,so the man can push the price up and pocket the difference ?
 
(5) Do the foreign men take these FSU women shopping,expecting the women to buy him a new suit or pair of shoes ?
 
(6) When the FSU woman returns back to her own country,does the foreign man ask her for money to treat his sudden illness,or for Russian language lessons,while he's busily inviting other FSU women to his country,at their expense, to make money out of them ?
 
(7) No,thought not.
 
( When foreign men start doing this,then you can compare the two situations .
 
You see,unlike a lot of the Sir Galahads/nancy boys on here,i don't think the sun shines out of FSU womens backsides.
 
I prefer to tell it as it is.
 
Many  on here were saying the OP was stupid,and had no chance of getting his money back from that scam agency and it's girls..well they were wrong.

In the old Odessa tradition of answering the question with the question....

1:a ) when the UK man who lives in the suburb of London, decides to go to London to hang out in famous pubs to hook up with attractive girls and (hopefully) have sex with them (with no particular plans for marriage but if he meets the right one - he would not object the idea of marrying her), does he ever expects that these hypothetical girls will contribute in any way to his expenses for ticket to London and for price of the drinks in famous and probably expensive pubs?

1:b) if any of the girls turned out to be married, but accept the drinks from the guy, maybe has sex with him, but he only discovers she is married several weeks later when he wants to meet again, so in this (not that unlikely situation), does the average UK guy requests these (married or not single) UK girls to compensate the expenses he made (ticket to London and cost of drinks in the pubs)?

2) if you walk down the street, and see 10 restaurants. On one of them there is a sign "Chinese only, no English" and your level of Chinese is nice and round "0" , but the pictures on the restaurant are quite attractive and definitely very unusual. So you go inside, the restaurant is expensive and the menu doesn't have any cheap options, you have no idea what the food is, but you still decide to stay, order several expensive items from the menu, and they turned out to be some deep fried sh-t of a rare type of insect. You still eat  it, and don't like it. What do you do next? do you complain  about the restaurant and demand them to reimburse you the price of the dinner? Because what you got wasn't quite what you expected? Or maybe, just maybe, you should have chosen a different restaurant? Maybe if you want to eat and don't speak Chinese, you should go to a place where the waiters speak English, and can explain you what you are ordering?

(3:a) please, show me where in UK you can get the full-day driver for 75$ /day. Please show me any Shengen Zone country or the US where you can get such service. I think Bruttus got a good deal on the driver, if he needed/wanted/requested/agreed to use such service. Gas prices in Ukraine are higher than in USA. I checked last week.
(3:b) I presume you sometimes buy flight tickets online. So you picked the ticket you needed, and just as you are going to pay, the ad pops up on the screen: "for $150 you can get more leg space and upgrade to the better category." If you don't want to upgrade, what do you do? Don't upgrade and pass on the offer, or upgrade and then b-tch about it for months and months to every eager (or maybe not eager but tolerant) set of ears... ?
 
(4) are western men banned from google? What prevents them to find apartment? Western men are more than eager to take advantage of RWs, why otherwise vast majority of them would travel to economically unstable countries? Oh.. sorry, I forgot. They do it with purely humanitarian purpose to feed the hungry and impregnate the poor.

(5)   foreign men are very pleased when RWs are cooking and buying meals (when eating out) for them. The cost of this food relative to woman's salary can be much more expensive than the cost of "shopping tour" relative to man's salary. Just as is the revelation of one of this forum members, they go to Russia to have fun. Aren't you expected to pay for having fun? When was the last time you went skiing (for leisure) and got paid for it? Tell me the place where you can do it, I'd happily go to that resort.
 
(6) Should I  google for you some criminal chronicles about UK or you can do it yourself? Don't forget to write an explanation here why some brits are criminals, and prove to me that not all of them are criminals. For all i know, you may be a drug lord and a human trafficker.

(7) I am not very familiar with British English. Please, rephrase.

Waiting for your response, anxiously.

[Stirlitz]

If there is such difficulties with a language, I suppose there is no necessity of discussing policy, scientific events etc. But to talk about feelings ( or something like that ) with some "third person"..

Science is not the only subject that requires good translation. When you want to get to know the person well enough to make up your mind about a future together, or when you discuss such plans, it is especially important to have a good translator as misunderstanding might cost you too much in the future.
With a good professional translator it is possible to talk about anything. Unless you are so shy that you cannot go to a doctor who inspects your body or cannot talk to a psychologist who asks you questions about your private life. But most people are OK with that. Why shouldn’t they be OK with a translator, it is pretty much the same. I can even see in some movies when a married couple is visiting a shrink and discussing some very private things with him... but he is a pro so it’s OK.

[bruttus]

@Mies and Hammer

Its not that i want revenge, yes, i feel humiliated, but that's it, but i can't say to the persons that did me wrong, i forgive you, and i will go further
and yes, I'm moving further, planning mine next trip to Kiev, with EURO12, i made some friends, so i believe that I'm easygoing
the fact is that i feel angry, when i was there, that genuine girl gave me the feeling that she was really intrested in me, because according to Mila, she was asking allot when she could meet me, but on the day that I'm back in mine country, i saw suddenly that this genuine girl wasn't intrested in me at all
so yes, i was angry, because i came home with the thought that i found a genuine girl that was serious, and from that point i thought that we could see if we have a future or not, with the help of Mila
but revenge, no, what i well expected was that i should have a refunds about it, because on that point i follow CDW
If the girl has commit ed with a man, why should she date further, and its the same for the men also ( i hope i explained it good)

for me, that lady has already commit ed with that guy before i came to meet here and even then, it wasn't me that choose that lady to go out of an date, it was Mila hereself, without letting me know in advance (yes, she can said it on the day that i arrived in Kharkov, but if you haven't slept for almost 48h, the only thing that i was thinking was a good shower, and sleeping)
and why
even forget the fact that this lady met that guy a couple months before i came Kharkov, but in those months between that guy and me, there had to be some contact to arraigned some things, because the fact that she left Kharkov, 1 month after mine visit to that guy's country
To me, after mine first complain on this forum, i received a letter from Mila that she didn't knew about that trip and she told me that this couple didn't communicate allot with each other during those months between feb 2012 and june 2012, but that is for other discuss
and that is something that i can't and won't believe it that they didn't communicated with each other if they don't plan to visit his country
and about the trip, to be honest, i found out that Mila knew allot about visums, so i wouldn't be shocked that she helped that genuine girl with planning that trip

Why i BELIEVE that Mila knew it
this is the reason why
like i said before the changing in behavior from that lady
before the complain to Mila,when the lady wrote to me, that she really likes the other guy,
after complain to Mila, that lady sent me a letter that she wanted to talk, and that this guy was just a friend and nothing more
sorry, i can't believe that the sudden behavior from that girl without that Mila said something to here, it is possible, but i doubt it

secondly, and that is something what is still in mine mind
When would they have said something about it
Think about it that i didn't found out
Am i still paying for the English lessons and threeway calls via skype  between me, that genuine girl and Mila?
because from the reaction that i received from Mila, that i acted jealously, even when i came with evidence, i don't think that she would have told me that
the only luck that i have, was that i found it out early, so i could withdraw mine money back from mine paypall account to mine bank account

to the others that say move on and forget it, i can't, its not mine way
its just telling to a thief, here, mine door is open, and take what you can take with you

for the rest, its not what happend when i was in Kharkov, when i was there, i had a really good time
it all happend when i came back home
and that's where i have it difficult with, that this genuine lady did everything what she could to draw mine attention to here, according to Mila, she was asking allot when she could meet me, and when I'm back home, i was suddenly not worth here time, and if i didn't found out, maybe just good enough for sending money for English lessons.
and the fact how Mila treathend me when i asked an explanation

but for the rest, i'm tired to defend myself everytime
i know what happend, and i know that there are other people that had the same experience with Mila that i have, with other words, leaving Kharkov with a good feeling, and then discovering that it is was all a game.
But that is what Mila is defending hereself, that she is a kind, good and honest host is, but not what happend when the guest leaves Kharkov, what really happens when the guest discover that the genuine lady wasn't at all intrested in him, not even friendly

that's why i ask back a refund back from mine time being with that genuine lady
because i honnestly believe that this lady had made here choice before i came, and what i did for here, it was a lost case anyway
i feel used, and believe that i really waisted mine time and money with that lady

and Mies, i do hope you know me a bit
if i only wanted to have fun, i rather stay in mine own country
much cheaper and i can stay in mine own apartment

[facetrock]

  Bruttus. Until the time comes when you can tell when a woman is TRULY interested in you I think you should just stay in your apartment.
  You also like to assume. You assume Mila knew about the visa. You found out the girl is friends with the guy she ended up with on Facebook so you assume they were a couple while you were there. You assume because she went to see the guy a month after you left it was all a setup. I assume different. She liked the guy. He pulled the trigger and invited her to his country. That was game over for you Bruttus.
And one more thing. Please stop using the "I was scammed" excuse for your failure to win the 21 year old kid. That's all this drawn out saga is really about anyway, you camouflaging your failure by screaming scam.

[mies]

You assume Mila knew about the visa. You found out the girl is friends with the guy she ended up with on Facebook so you assume they were a couple while you were there. You assume because she went to see the guy a month after you left it was all a setup. I assume different. She liked the guy. He pulled the trigger and invited her to his country. That was game over for you Bruttus.
And one more thing. Please stop using the "I was scammed" excuse for your failure to win the 21 year old kid. That's all this drawn out saga is really about anyway, you camouflaging your failure by screaming scam.

I agree with what's said above. I have about 500-600 facebook contacts. Approximately 80% are men. One of these men is my husband. The rest apparently aren't in any kind of romantic relationship with me, and never were. I don't see how Facebook friendship proves anything about seriousness of the relationship.

The girl wasn't married with this guy. They weren't living together since he lives abroad. Why in the world should interpreter know (and is it possible at all?) whether the girl likes anybody or whether she is corresponding with anyone. It's dating, not the "1984"'s  Big Brother is watching you. She was interested in Bruttus, then she changed her mind. It's normal.

Bruttus, I know you a bit, and i admire your idealistic desire to make the world a better place. But I do not believe that in love people in whom you "invest" your feelings or money owe  you anything. Relationship isn't just an investment, it's something more than that. Sometimes you give just because you want to give to a particular person, and don't want to request anything in return.

[ML]

But I do not believe that in love people in whom you "invest" your feelings or money owe you anything.

Yes mies, this is certainly true; and as I posted a couple of times above,  if it were just about Bruttus and the gal, then I would join others in trying  to get him to shut up and move on.

But, according to Bruttus' answers to my numbered questions above, the 'investment' was not just concerning the gal he met.

[facetrock]

ML. With the answers Bruttus gave you I still don't see the scam. Just a lot of speculation on his part. Bruttus says himself he confirmed the girl and guy were a couple because they were friends on facebook which really doesn't prove anything. This is when Bruttus stopped the paypal money. Then If I understand this right the girl later went to see he guy. Ok. Sounds normal to me. Just don't see a scam here.