scammed by yeva4u

[mies]

mies, your speculation really is way out there on a limb. Who the woman's parents might choose for the daughter really isn't at issue here is it?

My speculations are based on the knowledge of Ukrainian culture and on some discussions with Bruttus.

[mies]

Mies, you'd be surprised how many lily-white skin, blue-eyed Mexicans are there in country.

Please, don't stereotype.

I know, I have super blond, blue-eyed Mexican friends. In my recent post about racism I was not talking about all Mexican. I am talking about a particular Mexican, and I've seen his photo. He isn't blond nor blue-eyed. Plus, talk about stereotypes to a vast majority of Ukrainians and Russians. Maybe we can get a poll going on A/D and see what the ladies will contribute there. Would they rather have their daughter marry a Mexican or a Dutch/German/Swedish etc man. No additional information provided. And see which man would get more votes

Then, to add a twist, mention that the Mexican is blue-eyed, and the Dutch/German/Swedish  citizen is actually of African origin. and then you'll see how preferences would change, but also how strong is the power of the Shengen passport

[mies]

Ouch! Whatever happened to tall, dark and handsome?

They'd probably have more luck in Sweden. Although, there are some girls in RUssia/FSU who like Café au lait. But society as a whole is very racist. And not in a good way.

As for mentality - on the basic day-to-day level, Mexicans are much closer to Ukrainians in their mentality than Belgians are. We once compared our observations about Mexican people with several ukrainian friends, and all came to conclusion that Mexicans are basically ukrainians, only tanner and happier, a bit more religious, and speak Spanish. The jokes/humor, general emotional reactions, openennes etc are practically identical. It's so easy to understand each other with them, that even the lack of common language isn't a serious obstacle. Quite miraculous.

[mies]

Bowling, frolicking at the beach and cocktail with a date and translator at $15 an hour isn't even in the same zip code as a scam

I never said it's a scam.  Poor business ethics, maybe?

Suppose I'm selling a painting. I have two bidders. I request from each one of them a deposit as a condition for successful purchase, and make a further condition that the deposit is non-refundable. I already know that only one of the bidders (or none?) will get the painting. But I accept deposit from both of them. Then sell the painting to the bidder whom I like more, on a personal level. Technically, the rules were clear to both bidders from the start. But you can understand why the bidder who lost his deposit may get upset. Sure, he is upset because he didn't get the painting he wanted, but he is also upset because he feels cheated, in some way. He thinks  I should not have taken deposits from both bidders. I, on the contrary, do not see where I've done wrong. I collected deposits from both of them because it's the profit for my business, and I did let them know in advance that deposits are non-refundable.
To make the situation more similar to Bruttus's case, imagine that both bidders asked me whether there are more bidders or they are sole candidates. And to each one of them, while collecting the deposit, I told "no, don't be unreasonable, you are my only potential buyer."

[YoungBuck]

They'd probably have more luck in Sweden. Although, there are some girls in RUssia/FSU who like Café au lait. But society as a whole is very racist. And not in a good way.

As for mentality - on the basic day-to-day level, Mexicans are much closer to Ukrainians in their mentality than Belgians are. We once compared our observations about Mexican people with several ukrainian friends, and all came to conclusion that Mexicans are basically ukrainians, only tanner and happier, a bit more religious, and speak Spanish. The jokes/humor, general emotional reactions, openennes etc are practically identical. It's so easy to understand each other with them, that even the lack of common language isn't a serious obstacle. Quite miraculous.

 when was racism ever good?
 It's really sad that a whole society could denigrate a whole group of people that they have never met.  Mexicans as a whole like FSU people. We have more cultural offerings  worldwide, than Ukraine so I don't get where the superiority complex comes from.  Please explain why I should be in awe of your average Ukrainian?

[Patagonie]

The question is not to discuss if racism is good or not, the fact is that FSU is globally racist.
If you are black, arabic, darkly tanned you start with a big disadvantage, you need to know it. All non pure white race will come across this issue at a moment or an other.
As i have permanent contact in FSU, i confirm what Mies is saying.

I don't say that you have any chance to success, i am just saying that your journey will be more difficult, and this adventure is already highly risky. Don't focus on those who come here and get married in three trips with the first gal  they meet. Compare to the crowd, their success rate is very low.

[andrewfi]

Ughh!
Stirlitz is correct. If this Milaa woman wanted to be a scammer then Bruttus would never have known about it.
There may be things that were not perfect about the handling of the situation by Milaa but she, like most of us, is human. Show me a day when I got everything right in my personal and professional dealings and well... it can't be done.
What we can be sure of is that our hero is well out of order. It is the only thing of which we can be sure because he is posting and demonstrating his faults every day and several times a day. The problem is that neither Milaa or the women she introduced to Bruttus could or would have known the extent of Bruttus' limitations until too late. Milaa is, I am sure accustomed to dealing with the socially inept, it is par for the course in this business. But the extent of his limitations obviously only became visible much later.
When I was a sprout I used to sell home electronics products. We used to see faulty goods. Sometimes we would see goods described as faulty but were perfectly adequate within the context of price and quality. Sometimes we would see a third class of fault, one that we called 'faulty customers'.
Faulty customers were a rare breed of people who were simply unsuited for the responsibility of owning the items they had purchased. In the end it was policy to give these people a refund on their purchases and ask them to not darken our doors again.Often they were not nasty people, although sometiems they'd get shouty or start telling lies. Usually though they were people who just lacked the ability to understand what it was they had purchased - possibly in terms of how the thing worked, maybe in terms of reasonable expectatoins of quality, often in terms of reasonable expectations of customer service.
Bruttus is quite obviously a faulty customer.
Giving him a refund of any monies spent will not solve his problems. Calling him a nutter won't help either, although the chances are that a little talking therapy will help in his relationships in general.
None of the players are evil or nasty.
Bruttus had the misfortune to think he could manage a relationship where he might be in competition with others for a person's affections and handled the situation badly (forcing 'heirloom' gifts onto an unwilling recipient is noteworthy - but who engraves their name on such a thing - I smell a rat here!) Milla, possibly, was too close to Bruttus, tried to be too good a servant. The girl, if she was close enough to another bloke to be considering marriage could have made that clear to Bruttus and Milaa but was not under any obligation to do so, she has the benefit of free choice, love is a competitive activity and she was not dishonest with Bruttus.
Bruttus has not been honest with himself and as a result made himeself into a faulty customer - he needs to be shunned by Milaa and the girl. We need to understand his shortcomings and not try to ascribe blame to those who do not deserve it. Sadly though I sense that some blame is being cast because some here see much of Bruttus in themeselves.
 

[Gylden]

Sadly though I sense that some blame is being cast because some here see much of Bruttus in themeselves.

Do you think mies is seeing a bit of Bruttus in herself or Manlooking?
 
 
If so I dissagree with you.
 
There is no question that Bruttus is not that adept with women, but the rest is speculation.

[andrewfi]

You are free to disagree however there are very few 'facts' here. Most of what you see is speculation however in order for what Brutus is saying to be true we need to understand that Milaa in particular is acting in a manner that is outside of her known reputation.
We can see that Bruttus has some issues, that is not in dispute.
Thus a reasoned analysis of what has been going on sugests that Milaa and the target of Bruttus' affections behaved as normal people do, as I noted above and that Bruttus is a 'faulty customer'.
In order for my analysis to be far off the mark we'd have to accept that Bruttus, on the evidence he has prvided here, is a perfectly normal person with no degree of social ineptitude, with abslutley normal expectations as to the outcomes of relationships and that, to repeat, Milaa was behaving in a manner tht has not been reported by any other of her clients here and in a manner that would not serve her business well.
So, think of the balance of probablilities absed upon what you see here and get back to me.
To be clear here: I am sure that Bruttus is, within the confines of his comfort zone and skills, a perfectly decent bloke. Good company, with a decent level of personal integrity.
WHat has happened is that he has stepped outsde of his zone of capability and is finding it hard to reconcile his failure with his normal situation. If he normally trusts other people and himself and lives a 'comfortable' life then it is rational for him to seek outsiders to blame - it is not only rational, it is normal. After all, if he accepts that he is wrong in this case then it upsets an awful lot about his world and goes to the core of himself as a person and a man becasue he now knows that he is not abe to trust himself and his reactions as well as he thought he could.
In this context it is reasonable for him to do as he is doing but it is also very wrong becasue it has negative effcts upon those people with whom he has interacted and who have done their best to accommodate him.
Speculation, yes, but am I far off the mark here?
I doubt it.

[bruttus]

about the heirloom
how crappy mine English written is, but i do speak better English then i write
for me its a huge different when a girl tells to me, of course that was translated by Mila
I DON'T wants it or I CAN'T accept it
i told here, it was tradition, to give something personal to someone who you care
In mine previous post i told that this gal did everything to draw mine attention, so yes, i gave that bracelet to that girl
why, @ that time, i trusted Mila as a translator/guide and even i was seeing Mila as a friend, so i trusted that lady also
so, i brought a bit of our tradition to here
about that it was mine name on it
let me tell this clear, that bracelet itself means for me everything
that bracelet was a gift from mine grandmother when i was a baby
i was raised by mine grandmother, so i see mine grandmother as mine own mother
but to bad, i saw here dying because of cancer
now i read somewhere ''i smell a rat'' because mine name is on it
i make this clear, that bracelet has more value to me then the worlds biggest diamond, or the biggest pirate treasure, so where is then that rat

now  Mila translated to me that she can't accept that because of this personally value, but still after i told that lady it is our tradition, she accepts it, and she hugged me

For the rest, i have give, Mies a link, the FBprofile from that guy (from the lady i do not have because i have blocked here) i told Mies where to look for (the photo's that are posted in september), and she went even further and found the profile from that lady in Facebook
so for more info, talk with Mies
ML, CDW and Lonedrake are also on the right track from what i mean
for stirlitz and andrewfi
i really honnor your loyalty that you defending a other com. member
even now i see that the post are going that way about Mila, and not the gal, and thats finaly the direction i'm going with
the best way is talking with mies, she can explain it way better.

and yes, i'm upset, because i trusted a forummember
you can be a very good host when you are there as guest, but that changed when these things happend with that gal when i came back home, and when i did a complain to Mila, what mine right was as costumer, i received a reaction that i was suddenly the bad person
for that, ask Mies what she has seen

and second and all, i wanna read that SUCCESSTORY from that young couple from Mila
you know, how they met, how the communication was until the day that they decided to have a wedding

[Faux Pas]

My speculations are based on the knowledge of Ukrainian culture and on some discussions with Bruttus.

I do not dispute your statement about Ukrainian culture. I know that it is true. Most everything else you've stated however is in dispute. The girl wanted to meet bruttus. She was not seeing anyone else at that time. She could have been communicating with 8-10 guys, who knows? Does she not have that right?

bruttus came to visit her in July. The girl was a gracious host. Dated bruttus while he was in Ukraine. She did not spend bruttus money. bruttus told her he would buy her a present but he did not. Over several dates bruttus paid for a couple of meals. Nothing fancy or expensive. He paid for bowling and cocktails again, nothing fancy or expensive. He paid for translation at $15 bucks an hour. Nothing excessive there, is there? He did not pay for a translator for several  dates with the girl and they were alone.

At the end of the dates bruttus tried to give the girl a bracelet that has his name on it. The girl didn't want it, bruttus insisted she take it. The girl returned it to the translator where it is now. The girl made of her mind about bruttus then, she does want bruttus. mies, does this girl not have that right? The girl told Mila, bruttus is not for her. bruttus orders 3 way skype sessions for the next few weeks, during these sessions he wants the girl to take English lessons and offers and does pay but, nobody takes the money. bruttus gets it back

In August the girl meets a Mexican guy. She likes the Mexican and goes in September to Mexico. mies, does this girl not have that right? was she committed to bruttus? bruttus being the sleuth he thinks he is sees the pictures on her facebook page. His heart is broke. He screams scam, the girl scammed him, the guy scammed him, the translator scammed him

bruttus was given his chance with the girl. bruttus failed to win her, Mexican dude did win her. There were no extra or excessive translator charges, bruttus actually got much more than he paid for. mies, does the girl not have the right to choose her man and her life?

[Faux Pas]

You are free to disagree however there are very few 'facts' here. Most of what you see is speculation however in order for what Brutus is saying to be true we need to understand that Milaa in particular is acting in a manner that is outside of her known reputation.
We can see that Bruttus has some issues, that is not in dispute.
Thus a reasoned analysis of what has been going on sugests that Milaa and the target of Bruttus' affections behaved as normal people do, as I noted above and that Bruttus is a 'faulty customer'.
In order for my analysis to be far off the mark we'd have to accept that Bruttus, on the evidence he has prvided here, is a perfectly normal person with no degree of social ineptitude, with abslutley normal expectations as to the outcomes of relationships and that, to repeat, Milaa was behaving in a manner tht has not been reported by any other of her clients here and in a manner that would not serve her business well.
So, think of the balance of probablilities absed upon what you see here and get back to me.
To be clear here: I am sure that Bruttus is, within the confines of his comfort zone and skills, a perfectly decent bloke. Good company, with a decent level of personal integrity.
WHat has happened is that he has stepped outsde of his zone of capability and is finding it hard to reconcile his failure with his normal situation. If he normally trusts other people and himself and lives a 'comfortable' life then it is rational for him to seek outsiders to blame - it is not only rational, it is normal. After all, if he accepts that he is wrong in this case then it upsets an awful lot about his world and goes to the core of himself as a person and a man becasue he now knows that he is not abe to trust himself and his reactions as well as he thought he could.
In this context it is reasonable for him to do as he is doing but it is also very wrong becasue it has negative effcts upon those people with whom he has interacted and who have done their best to accommodate him.
Speculation, yes, but am I far off the mark here?
I doubt it.

As much as I do generally find fault with your well over the top speculations, I'm confident you are on the mark here. Congratulations 

[bruttus]

@faux pas
talk to Mies, she explains it better

[Hammer2722]

If I recall, there was another similar situation like this which occurred with Mila setting up another forum member with a girl she new. The member expressed his concern that the girl was not what he wanted age wise but was convinced to meet and spend time with her anyway because she was a "good girl".Things did not go well in that situation either. Not sure if the story was posted on this forum or the "Other" forum.


To me it seems like the same Modus Operandi. 


Brutus, the fault I would find in you is agreeing to meet a women who was not in the age range you were looking for. You were the paying client so you should have been adamant about meeting only women of the age range YOU wanted.

[andrewfi]

Hammer, if one beleives one is buying a woman then that makes sense. If onthe other hand one beleives that women are equal to men and, in addition, have free will then the fact that a person does not get on with another is normal and to be expected.
If anything this sugests that whatever Milaa is doing is honest. Think on for a moment. If some guy is getting scammed would the relationshp continue or would it end in short order.
OK, so now we understand: it is more likely that any single introduction will fail than succeed.

[bruttus]

Brutus, the fault I would find in you is agreeing to meet a women who was not in the age range you were looking for. You were the paying client so you should have been adamant about meeting only women of the age range YOU wanted.

that one i agree, that is compleetly mine fault

If I recall, there was another similar situation like this which occurred with Mila setting up another forum member with a girl she new. The member expressed his concern that the girl was not what he wanted age wise but was convinced to meet and spend time with her anyway because she was a "good girl".Things did not go well in that situation either. Not sure if the story was posted on this forum or the "Other" forum.

well, if anyone remember the title or on what forum it is
would be a big help and can comparing the 2 story's

[Chelseaboy]

Faux Pas,
            I think you may need to re-read this thread.,although it's difficult to comprehend what bruttus is saying at times.
 
This is how i comprehend it,although maybe i'm the one that needs to re-read it
The girl first met the Mexican man in February 2012,before she met bruttus.
Bruttus didn't ask to meet the girl i understand,he was reluctant to because of her age,but Mila advised him to because the girl was anxious to meet him,and then kept telling him the girl continued to insist she wanted to carry on meeting him.
However,as Mila is claiming the girl as one of her success stories,i'd say she was well aware of what was going on between the girl and her Mexican boyfriend,when she advised bruttus to meet the girl.
I personally wouldn't want to meet a girl who is so heavily involved with another man,and i wouldn't have thought the Mexican man would be very impressed with Mila setting up dates for the girl with another man in between his trips to see her in February and August,and her subsequent trip to Mexico the following month.
 
Surely,Mila had other options for bruttus to meet,who were not in-between meeting another guy ?
 
 

[Hammer2722]

Faux Pas,
            I think you may need to re-read this thread.,although it's difficult to comprehend what bruttus is saying at times.
 
This is how i comprehend it,although maybe i'm the one that needs to re-read it
The girl first met the Mexican man in February 2012,before she met bruttus.
Bruttus didn't ask to meet the girl i understand,he was reluctant to because of her age,but Mila advised him to because the girl was anxious to meet him,and then kept telling him the girl continued to insist she wanted to carry on meeting him.
However,as Mila is claiming the girl as one of her success stories,i'd say she was well aware of what was going on between the girl and her Mexican boyfriend,when she advised bruttus to meet the girl.
I personally wouldn't want to meet a girl who is so heavily involved with another man,and i wouldn't have thought the Mexican man would be very impressed with Mila setting up dates for the girl with another man in between his trips to see her in February and August,and her subsequent trip to Mexico the following month.
 
Surely,Mila had other options for bruttus to meet,who were not in-between meeting another guy ?

That is also how I understand this situation ...

[bruttus]

Faux Pas,
            I think you may need to re-read this thread.,although it's difficult to comprehend what bruttus is saying at times.
 
This is how i comprehend it,although maybe i'm the one that needs to re-read it
The girl first met the Mexican man in February 2012,before she met bruttus.
Bruttus didn't ask to meet the girl i understand,he was reluctant to because of her age,but Mila advised him to because the girl was anxious to meet him,and then kept telling him the girl continued to insist she wanted to carry on meeting him.
However,as Mila is claiming the girl as one of her success stories,i'd say she was well aware of what was going on between the girl and her Mexican boyfriend,when she advised bruttus to meet the girl.
I personally wouldn't want to meet a girl who is so heavily involved with another man,and i wouldn't have thought the Mexican man would be very impressed with Mila setting up dates for the girl with another man in between his trips to see her in February and August,and her subsequent trip to Mexico the following month.
 
Surely,Mila had other options for bruttus to meet,who were not in-between meeting another guy ?

you can re-read it again, but thats the point

[Chelseaboy]

Mies,
       In the old London tradition of expecting a straight answer to a straight question,i will respond to your questions when you have given a straight answer to mine.
 
With reference to your point 6,for all i know you may be a drug lord and human trafficker,and running a stable of prodaters,it's not uncommon in Ukraine after all.
 
 

[Patagonie]

Faux Pas,
            I think you may need to re-read this thread.,although it's difficult to comprehend what bruttus is saying at times.
 
This is how i comprehend it,although maybe i'm the one that needs to re-read it
The girl first met the Mexican man in February 2012,before she met bruttus.
Bruttus didn't ask to meet the girl i understand,he was reluctant to because of her age,but Mila advised him to because the girl was anxious to meet him,and then kept telling him the girl continued to insist she wanted to carry on meeting him.
However,as Mila is claiming the girl as one of her success stories,i'd say she was well aware of what was going on between the girl and her Mexican boyfriend,when she advised bruttus to meet the girl.
I personally wouldn't want to meet a girl who is so heavily involved with another man,and i wouldn't have thought the Mexican man would be very impressed with Mila setting up dates for the girl with another man in between his trips to see her in February and August,and her subsequent trip to Mexico the following month.
 
Surely,Mila had other options for bruttus to meet,who were not in-between meeting another guy ?

Correct.

[Faux Pas]

Chelseaboy, Hammer

You are both wrong but you are free to believe what you like. bruttus's story has changed a number of time and he has told quite a few lies. Consider that bruttus is lying. Then, if you want to, believe him. Makes me no difference

There is nothing here to indicate bruttus was taken advantaged of by the girl or the terp. bruttus met the girl. The girl spent time with bruttus. The girl then met another. The other was a Mexican guy that woo'd and won her. bruttus lost, cried and lied.

Dispute that do we bruttus?

[Chelseaboy]

Faux Pas,
 
                As you're accusing bruttus of being a liar,kindly point out his lies.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,
 
                As you're accusing bruttus of being a liar,kindly point out his lies.

Let bruttus respond first

[Hammer2722]

Let bruttus respond first

Nice answer....