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Author Topic: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...  (Read 71166 times)

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Offline Terran

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2012, 04:19:52 AM »

A snail with an eye for a bargain! A buck-fifty per month!


Excellent post... but this was just too good of a goof!

Typo....
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 04:29:58 AM by Terran »

Offline Terran

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2012, 04:27:25 AM »
If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.

Even though i havent been to Odessa im going to add my 2 cents! ML There are good and bad women all over the place doesnt matter where you go, USA, Canada, Europe.... There are thousands of ladies in Odessa and many other cities, the ratio of good to bad cant be 100%. As with everything patience and hard work! Or maybe im just talking alot of non sense!

Offline IAmZon

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2012, 05:04:38 AM »
A word on learning Russian - it is not as bad as I first thought.  I have Michelle Thomas series for Russian.  I used it for Spanish to establish a basic foundation.  I will reach my short term goals (which are modest) easily.  Again, I do not wish to gain fluency in Russian - "vacation Russian" is fine for me.


Eduard - "Tim, if I were you I'd give Russia a serious thought as well."


Not this trip, but anything is possible. 





Offline ML

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2012, 07:18:41 AM »
If you want to do a lot of cultural things . . . then Kyiv cannot be beaten.

If you want to see a lot of very interesting things . . . then Yalta cannot be beaten.

If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.

If you want to be in a city more like countries to the west of Ukraine . . . then Lvov is the place to go.

If you like to be in a very comfortable, more laid back city with seemingly larger than average percentage of good women . . . then Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk cannot be beaten.

Thought went into this post.

I mentioned which cities were best and worst for certain characteristics . . . as I saw it.

I mentioned Yalta could not be beaten for interesting things.

Of course other cities all over the world have interesting things; such statements don't even have to be made.

And of course there are bad and good persons in every city.

But we were asked to comment on Ukraine.

And its still true:  If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Offline Eduard

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2012, 08:57:23 AM »

And its still true:  If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.
maybe from a perspective of a foreigner who is a natural "mark" for those women who make a living off the visitors from the West. ML if you became fluent in Russian and lived there for a few years meeting women who don't "hang out" at popular night clubs trying to hook the next mark, I'm sure you would have a different opinion. They have a wonderful sense of humor in Odessa specific to that city only (most famous Soviet time comedians came from Odessa) and a zest for life. Sure there are plenty of criminals and dishonest people but that's why not being an obvious "mark" is important. You have to be able to blend in and meet normal women who work hard, spend time at home with family or friends on weekends and lead a humble but wholesome lifestyle. This is how the women from Odessa that I know are: a lot of fun, very loyal to their husbands (for life) great mothers and wives.


Once you stop being a "Russian bride" hunter you see things differently. I'd say that Kiev is probably the toughest place  for dating especially if you are looking for a very attractive woman. If you are stationed in Odessa you can also meet women from Moldova which is only about an hour drive away. Lots of beautiful women there. Western Ukraine is a good place to look as well. If you must look in Ukraine, I'd probably focus on the Western part if I were you.


But as anywhere you must be very careful who you decide to get serious with. Many women can be very manipulative, they know exactly what to say to push the right buttons and get you to do what they want you to do. I know that you have an eye for really beautiful ones and they can be the most dangerous... Not going to be easy to figure out with the language barrier in the way. So you really have to rely on your 6th sense, Tim. What you see is not always what you get. Really do try to listen to what your subconscious mind is telling you. If it senses something's not right and you are feeling uncomfortable about something do not dismiss it. It's going to be your best and the most reliable indicator of what's what and who's who.


Many women in Ukraine come from a very humble economic background, so their' basic survival instinct is very strong and dominant. Some will do or say anything to get ahead, use you then dump you to get to the next step up. This type of women can be found anywhere, off course, but because of Ukraine's economic conditions this kind of behavior is more common and accepted there than in countries with better economy. This applies to Moldova/Prednestrovye as well.


There is a whole other category of women to stay clear from. Women who come from dysfunctional family background and have psychological issues or psychiatric issues like BPD, Bipolar disorder and even Schizophrenia. They may be well represented among beautiful single women. This may be the reason they are single in the first place.


Like I said, your best friend is going to be your subconscious mind. If something doesn't feel quite right, do not dismiss it as a "cultural difference" thing.
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Offline Vaughn

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2012, 09:17:24 AM »
Western Ukraine is a good place to look as well. If you must look in Ukraine, I'd probably focus on the Western part if I were you.

Eduard, could you elaborate on your reasoning on Western vs Eastern Ukraine ladies?

Offline ML

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2012, 09:39:02 AM »
maybe from a perspective of a foreigner who is a natural "mark" for those women who make a living off the visitors from the West. ML if you became fluent in Russian and lived there for a few years meeting women who don't "hang out" at popular night clubs trying to hook the next mark, I'm sure you would have a different opinion. They have a wonderful sense of humor in Odessa specific to that city only (most famous Soviet time comedians came from Odessa) and a zest for life. Sure there are plenty of criminals and dishonest people but that's why not being an obvious "mark" is important. You have to be able to blend in and meet normal women who work hard, spend time at home with family or friends on weekends and lead a humble but wholesome lifestyle. This is how the women from Odessa that I know are: a lot of fun, very loyal to their husbands (for life) great mothers and wives.

Eduard, you are still deliberately missing my point.

For instance, you try to deflect my comments about Odesa by saying thing such as "a perspective of a foreigner who is a natural "mark" for those women who make a living off the visitors from the West."

You are ignoring that I also commented on Kyiv, Yalta, Kharkiv and Dnipro where I was subject to the same 'natural mark.'  And I have noted many times here that I have been to FSU dozens of times and visited dozens of cities in addition to those mentioned in this thread.  And I am not a "Russian Bride" hunter.  Most of my trips were for business.

My views about Odesa women (and even about  Odesa people in general) are shared by many other WM and by many native Ukrainians.  You can find similar views in many travel guide books.

I repeat even stronger:  If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2012, 10:03:13 AM »
ML,
 
Is there a reason why Odessa is as you say it is?   It can not be random.  For example, is there a large sex tourism trade in Odessa?
 
Regarding what native Ukrainians say about Odessa, I have heard RW make impolite remarks about UW, remarks that are mostly untrue based on my experience.   

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2012, 10:25:56 AM »
Odesa is the hub of drug trafficking and, by some accounts, human trafficking, into the EU.
 
Odesa has always had a reputation as a city of shysters.  That goes back to before the Revolution. 
 
Ed is right about Odesa's "style".   It also has a distinct music style, partly evident here -
 

 
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return.  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2012, 11:58:16 AM »

Eduard, could you elaborate on your reasoning on Western vs Eastern Ukraine ladies?
less of a chance of meeting prodaters and other women who are just earning a living from the MOB industry. People are not as jaded, more down to earth. But off course it's just a generality.
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Offline Eduard

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2012, 12:37:32 PM »
Eduard, you are still deliberately missing my point.

For instance, you try to deflect my comments about Odesa by saying thing such as "a perspective of a foreigner who is a natural "mark" for those women who make a living off the visitors from the West."

You are ignoring that I also commented on Kyiv, Yalta, Kharkiv and Dnipro where I was subject to the same 'natural mark.'  And I have noted many times here that I have been to FSU dozens of times and visited dozens of cities in addition to those mentioned in this thread.  And I am not a "Russian Bride" hunter.  Most of my trips were for business.

My views about Odesa women (and even about  Odesa people in general) are shared by many other WM and by many native Ukrainians.  You can find similar views in many travel guide books.

I repeat even stronger:  If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.
Fact is that in any city there are dishonest people making a living off taking advantage of others and there are decent people who are hard working, family oriented down to earth persons. If you must generalise and put a  stereotype on a city then you must have some kind of evidence in a form of a ratio of honest to dishonest people which I doubt you can produce. But even if you could, what would it mean exactly? Say you can produce evidence that a ratio of honest to dishonest people is 55:45 in Donetsk versus 45:55 in Odessa. Does this mean that you can't find a good woman in Odessa? NO. And the biggest shyster in Ukraine - Ukrainian president, comes from Donetsk. If you are going to use this rational, then you should be avoiding Ukraine all together and look in Russia or Belarus where in my experience people are in less of a "survival mode" and the ratio of honest to dishonest is much better IMO.


Still, you can meet your soul mate anywhere. Yalta? sure, why not? Go to Yalta in the summer and you will meet many women from all over FSU vacationing there. many men from Europe go to Yalta to play in the summer time because there are so many women vacationing there by themselves. Go there in the winter and you may find yourself in a similar situation as what you have now in Tampa.
You say that Kiev is better than Odessa? Why??? Many women have overinflated selfworth attitude (as many capitol women do), entitlement attitude, etc.  I think you have just as much of a chance to meet  your mate in Kiev as in Odessa.
I had clients who met their wives in Russia but originally they were from Ukraine. And I had clients who met their wives in Ukraine but they were from Russia, Belarus or Moldova originally. You really never know where you are going to meet your one and only.
But saying that women in Odessa are mostly shysters isn't right. I have a couple of close friends from Odessa and they are very honest, down to earth people, some of the best I've ever met.


PS. ML, Odessa is spelled with 2 Ss
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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2012, 12:43:19 PM »
The Russian spelling, transliterated, is Odessa.  The Ukrainian language spelling, which is now the "official" spelling, is Odesa.  Just like Kiev/Kyiv.
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return.  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline ML

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #62 on: April 10, 2012, 09:55:26 AM »
ML,
 
Is there a reason why Odessa is as you say it is?   It can not be random.  For example, is there a large sex tourism trade in Odessa?
 
Regarding what native Ukrainians say about Odessa, I have heard RW make impolite remarks about UW, remarks that are mostly untrue based on my experience.   

Boethius gives a good overview in her reply.  I think it also has something to do with Odesa being a port city with sailors coming ashore with a full paycheck.

= = = = = = =
 Boethius    Odesa is the hub of drug trafficking and, by some accounts, human trafficking, into the EU.
 
Odesa has always had a reputation as a city of shysters.  That goes back to before the Revolution. 
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Offline ML

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #63 on: April 10, 2012, 10:00:15 AM »

PS. ML, Odessa is spelled with 2 Ss

No it is not, except by rude Russians who contend that Ukraine is not a real country.

And once again:  If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.

But this comment of mine has to be read as an answer to the question posed by the OP, AND in conjunction with the entirety of my original answer to him.

Quote from: ML on April 01, 2012, 10:01:55 AM

If you want to do a lot of cultural things . . . then Kyiv cannot be beaten.

If you want to see a lot of very interesting things . . . then Yalta cannot be beaten.

If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.

If you want to be in a city more like countries to the west of Ukraine . . . then Lvov is the place to go.

If you like to be in a very comfortable, more laid back city with seemingly larger than average percentage of good women . . . then Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk cannot be beaten.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 10:18:59 AM by ML »
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Offline OlgaH

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #64 on: April 10, 2012, 10:46:01 AM »
Odesa is the hub of drug trafficking and, by some accounts, human trafficking, into the EU.
 
Odesa has always had a reputation as a city of shysters.  That goes back to before the Revolution. 
 
Ed is right about Odesa's "style".   It also has a distinct music style, partly evident here -

Ah, Odessa-Mama  :D  is also famous by its humor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Odessa

"It is good to be a salor, he arrives in a port and a girl is waiting for him. It is good to be a pilot, he arrives at the airport and a girl is waiting for him. It is good to be a locomotive driver, he arrives at the train station and a girl is waiting for him. It is not easy to be the girl running from the port to the airport, and after the airport to the train station."

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2012, 11:05:59 AM »
No it is not, except by rude Russians who contend that Ukraine is not a real country.

And once again:  If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.

But this comment of mine has to be read as an answer to the question posed by the OP, AND in conjunction with the entirety of my original answer to him.

Quote from: ML on April 01, 2012, 10:01:55 AM

If you want to do a lot of cultural things . . . then Kyiv cannot be beaten.

If you want to see a lot of very interesting things . . . then Yalta cannot be beaten.

If you like scamming/devious women . . . then Odesa cannot be beaten.

If you want to be in a city more like countries to the west of Ukraine . . . then Lvov is the place to go.

If you like to be in a very comfortable, more laid back city with seemingly larger than average percentage of good women . . . then Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk cannot be beaten.
well, OK! I will use ML's logic and suggest that:
If you want to find a beautiful yet down-to-earth, non-materialistic, family oriented woman as quickly and easily as possible cities like Irkutsk, Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Tula, Vologda, Ivanovo among many other Russian cities can't be beaten.  ;D
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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2012, 04:45:31 AM »
Many cities all over the world have been labelled as criminal cities or drug trafficing capitals or car theft captials etc.... People still seem to find love in all those cities! Just because you cant find love there doesnt mean everyone is bad. Thats just an excuse!

ML What will happen if you goto Lviv and find out that city is just like Odessa(cant be beaten)? Move on to the next city? There comes a point when you run out of cities. Maybe it is not the city. Could it be that what your looking for is out of reach or sight?

I just dont think it's a fair assessment to label everyone the same way, when that is very untrue. Just because there are a few bad people in a city doesnt mean everyone is bad. Sometimes we need to think outside the box.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 06:03:56 AM by Terran »

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2012, 05:09:26 AM »
If you want to find a beautiful yet down-to-earth, non-materialistic, family oriented woman as quickly and easily as possible ...

Move to Plan M !

Mongolian women have got no idea what's going on in the market today   ;)
If you want to keep your expressions convergent, never allow them a single degree of freedom.

Offline OlgaH

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2012, 06:00:31 AM »
Move to Plan M !

Mongolian women have got no idea what's going on in the market today   ;)

Are you sure  :)   http://www.dating.lt/browse/mn_women.html

Maybe only in the Mongolian steppes  :D

Offline ML

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2012, 11:04:21 AM »
Many cities all over the world have been labelled as criminal cities or drug trafficing capitals or car theft captials etc.... People still seem to find love in all those cities! Just because you cant find love there doesnt mean everyone is bad. Thats just an excuse!

ML What will happen if you goto Lviv and find out that city is just like Odessa(cant be beaten)? Move on to the next city? There comes a point when you run out of cities. Maybe it is not the city. Could it be that what your looking for is out of reach or sight?

I just dont think it's a fair assessment to label everyone the same way, when that is very untrue. Just because there are a few bad people in a city doesnt mean everyone is bad. Sometimes we need to think outside the box.

Terran, a couple of suggestions for you . . . in all sincerity.

1) Be a little bit more careful in your reading before you comment on what you think a person posted.

2) Read a lot about a particular person's background (from their other postings) before you think you know what the experience and situation of that person is.
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2012, 12:13:55 PM »
I will begin my trip in 5 days.  I will spend the first part of the trip in Eastern Europe.  However, I will be in Kiev on May 1, and I will remain in Ukraine for =/- 40 days thereafter.   Taking Jack's tour has given me a big, furry pillow.  I have put in a little time on Elena's, and LL.  I have been careful NOT TO write and begin a correspondence in advance of my trip.  I do not want any tension /  pressure from any one woman.  This will be a tour for me to see Ukraine FIRST.  I imagine I will meet a handful of women in real life with whom I will communicate AFTER a real life meeting.   That woman ( or those women  ) will be where I spend my time after the 20th of May.   Plenty of time to develop a good acquaintance.


Although I had been anti tour in the past, with this particular location, I don't see how one can see more and do more without?  Although I have been anti-agency in the past, it looks like I am going to use many - albeit selectively.  Funny how life works out.


So, this report will remain very light on the front end :)   


A couple of questions for the group concerning "profiling", and other natural questions that arise when a man spends too much time on agency catalog pages.
- I take women who do not use overly sexually suggestive photos more seriously.
- I take women more seriously who reference friends and family in their profile, or in initial meeting.
- I worry that women coming from less than solid homes and families can be emotionally incomplete.
- I am staying away from "young" women; 27 +, with a emphasis at 30, 31.   (I will not be bringing a big age gap woman back to live in the good ole' USA ... well, after some time; maybe)
- Has anyone noticed a high frequency of yellow teeth?  What's up with this?


You don't have to be Dick Tracy to correctly assume that these agency / online women ALREADY have a local boyfriend (s).   I would not trust a Latina in a relationship when there are regular absences of 90 days.   What is the prevailing wisdom on this board as this situation may apply to Russian women?


That's all for now ...






Offline ML

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2012, 12:19:09 PM »
- Has anyone noticed a high frequency of yellow teeth?  What's up with this?


You are in deep do-do with the women here now.
They don't like it  when you look at teeth . . . because that's what you do with horses.
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2012, 01:06:50 PM »
You don't have to be Dick Tracy to correctly assume that these agency / online women ALREADY have a local boyfriend (s).   I would not trust a Latina in a relationship when there are regular absences of 90 days.   What is the prevailing wisdom on this board as this situation may apply to Russian women?
When I was single and looking I've met several divorced FSU women here in FL who told me that when they met their American husbands through the agency they were using, they did have a boyfriend back home. One actually told me that her boyfriend gave her a ride to the airport and how passionate their last good bye was... she was a sexy thing... lived in St. Pete, FL at that time. They just felt that they could have a "better future" with an American than the future their local boyfriend could provide. They were looking for a "better deal" back home and then they were looking again for a "better deal" here in the US. I would try my best to avoid women like that.
Generally I can see how an average looking woman with 2 kids, in her 30s would have very few options of decent, marriage minded men locally, so I can see that a few of them would explore a possibility of a foreign man. A beautiful woman who is in the range that you are looking for, Tim, has many options of RM locally and I'm honestly not sure why would she list herself with a MOB agency. Anything is possible off course but seems strange from my personal experience with RW. If I were you I'd be really careful and try to dig a lot deeper to find out if a woman has psychologycal issues or an ulterior motive.  I believe that the vast majority of the beautiful women in your desired age range will be looking for their soul mate locally on local Russian sites. Some of them would be interested in you, I'm sure since I've met you in real life. But anything is possible and you may meet a great lady on this trip using agencies if you get really lucky. I guess time will tell. Just don't loose your head if you are introduced to a stunning looking woman. You are asking the right questions now, keep asking them when you are staring at a sexy beauty in front of you.
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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2012, 03:25:08 PM »
 


A couple of questions for the group concerning "profiling", and other natural questions that arise when a man spends too much time on agency catalog pages.
- I take women who do not use overly sexually suggestive photos more seriously.

Why not "... overly no sexually suggestive photos..." Afraid ordinary photos suggest a prude?  Don't worry.
 

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- I take women more seriously who reference friends and family in their profile,
or in initial meeting.

Check.  They seem to smile and laugh spontaneously when talking about family and friends.
 

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- I worry that women coming from less than solid homes and families can be emotionally incomplete.

Stress the positive, not the negative.  RW from functional happy homes are probably well adjusted.  There are exceptions.  Blues fairy was a prolific, balanced poster for years here until she had babies, and she was raised by her grandmother.
 

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- I am staying away from "young" women; 27  , with a emphasis at 30, 31.   (I will not be bringing a big age gap woman back to live in the good ole' USA ... well, after some time; maybe)

Are you kidding me.  You see a difference between 27  and 30,31?   Oddly, lecherous RM do.

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- Has anyone noticed a high frequency of yellow teeth?  What's up with this?

Supposedly Russian tooth enamel is thinner.  One of the hidden costs of marrying a FSUW.  Do not worry, dental treatment has improved to Western standards for a much lower cost than here.  Fix her teeth before she makes her debut here.

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You don't have to be Dick Tracy to correctly assume that these agency / online women ALREADY have a local boyfriend (s).   I would not trust a Latina in a relationship when there are regular absences of 90 days.   What is the prevailing wisdom on this board as this situation may apply to Russian women?

Some may have a local boyfriend.  It probably is not serious relationship unless she is a storefront woman for Anastasia Web and similar agencies.  Keep in mind that FSU gynecologists advise "use it or lose it."   The 90-day absence could apply to a woman who does not receive much attention at the agency.
When conversing with these women, avoid making it an interrogation.  Have fun.

Offline IAmZon

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Re: Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2012, 06:37:46 PM »
Quote
They don't like it  when you look at teeth . . . because that's what you do with horses.

I did not mean to insult.  There is a pattern here.  In the USA, in the 70's alergist used some medication that gave many kids a yellow stain.  Anyway ...

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Why not "... overly no sexually suggestive photos..." Afraid ordinary photos suggest a prude?  Don't worry.

me a prude!  I don't get THAT very much.

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Are you kidding me.  You see a difference between 27  and 30,31?   Oddly, lecherous RM do.

I have gotten AGE GAP issues 100% figured out FOR ME.   I know I have been pretty vocal about the negative side of dating AM, and that the "value" of being a man in the USA is crap compared to Latin America.  (all of which is 100% true)  But, that aside ... I still date women 24 - 32 in the USA - when I date in the USA (The 24 year old felt a little weird, I confess)   It is not because I buy their time.  It is not because I am blinded, or motivated by youth alone - it is simply because 1) I can, and 2) it is natural for me.  And I understand that it is NOT natural for others.  And, I understand that if I was to plan my life like an underwriter of insurance, there are statistical and probable difficulties and challenges with such things over the long run.  FINE.  I am not one of those guys.  I don't give a crap about what the people across the room think.  And, I realize that everyday is a gift .. who is to say when any of our numbers comes up?!

Further, if I meet a woman that is 33 - 40 ... and she BLOWS me away ... I could overlook the fact that children probably would not be in our future.  But, that would be a large compromise.

Further, I have no intention of stretching my natural boundaries (league and age)  and  taking a woman from one culture where the "community standards" are very complimentary to the male (Colombia, Ukraine, or other), and bringing her to Tampa Florida where the "community standards" are rather uncomplimentary to the male.  This is especially in the first several years of a relationship / marriage.

Well, I think we are finally making some progress ...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 07:11:37 PM by rivardco »

 

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