Ice Cube's Chance in Hell ...

[Boethius]

The upper class is the criminal class, riv.

If you think people are weighed down in Kyiv, it will only generally get worse.

The best areas of Kyiv are "working class", not too much money.  My MIL's district, for example, was a working class area with factories that employed over 10,000 people.  Now, all the factories are closed, and businesses are buying them up.  But the area is beautiful to walk in, parks with apple trees, flowers and lakes, families strolling, stores close by.  A little run down, but still nice.  These districts are all over Kyiv, maybe 15 minutes from Khreshchatyk.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I will leave Kiev today.  I never prefer Capital cities, and this experience did nothing to change that position. The last 5 days allowed me to catch up on work and rest.

I have been in a couple apartments, restaurants, churches, small food stores ect...  I have met a couple girls.   I have had a maid come to my apartment to take my laundry.  Admittedly, I have had limited experience.  But, the service seems to be on the low side.  There is a weight on most people here and you can see it in their eyes.  Quality of life in the center of the city would be hard to tolerate for longer than a week, or two. 
 
===

Ukraine isn't known for their service industry.

[IAmZon]

This sounds a little much for a first response ... opinions?

"Timothy Hello )) wow …. you in Ukraine?? and how to you first impression??
In what city you woke up this morning?) probably Sevastopol??
I'm lonely, beautiful both externally and internally girl who lives in Ukraine. Timothy, if you are kind, intelligent and looking for true love a man, then write me back and you will not be disappointed! I want to give my heart is in good hands. I have a lot to offer and if you're interested, let's be friends and then maybe between us break out the fire of love. Timothy write me, I'll be waiting!

Loving lady Julia"


====


The beer is heavy here!  I can handle my boos, but 4 - 5 beers give me a headache in the AM in Ukraine.  Gotta stop it now.


====


After this "tour", I doubt i would want to return to Kiev.   Any other ideas? (I would prefer to find a nice smaller "normal" place - not touristy) Also, I would like to take a train from somewhere in Ukraine to Vienna for my return flight on the 12th of June.   Any comments from those who know?

[Boethius]

Normal, as she is probably translating directly from Russian.  I wouldn't have concerns.

[I/O]

I would like to take a train from somewhere in Ukraine to Vienna for my return flight on the 12th of June.   Any comments from those who know?

Start now, it'll prolly take that long to cross all the thief stations customs gates 'tween there and there.

[ECOCKS]

I will leave Kiev today.  I never prefer Capital cities, and this experience did nothing to change that position. The last 5 days allowed me to catch up on work and rest.

I have been in a couple apartments, restaurants, churches, small food stores ect...  I have met a couple girls.   I have had a maid come to my apartment to take my laundry.  Admittedly, I have had limited experience.  But, the service seems to be on the low side.  There is a weight on most people here and you can see it in their eyes.  Quality of life in the center of the city would be hard to tolerate for longer than a week, or two. 

Is there not another area of the city where the normal, middle / upper class (non criminal) element live - or is this it?

I have 1 (one) agency meeting in Kharkov; 4 (four) in Poltava.  I will be in those cities for 6 days. 
===

Your desire to find a smaller, "more normal" city should provide an interesting backstory when you let us know how Poltava goes.....

What I/O said about trains is true. You're probably going to need to start on the 8th or 9th to get to Vienna on time with a comfortable margin.

Also, the comment about the "upper class" is pretty much on the mark as well. They're the ones that you need to be sure you count your rings, watch and fingers after shaking their hand.

I am disappointed to hear your impression of Kyiv but everyone makes their own experience I guess.

[Muzh]

This sounds a little much for a first response ... opinions?

"Timothy Hello )) wow …. you in Ukraine?? and how to you first impression??
In what city you woke up this morning?) probably Sevastopol??
I'm lonely, beautiful both externally and internally girl who lives in Ukraine. Timothy, if you are kind, intelligent and looking for true love a man, then write me back and you will not be disappointed! I want to give my heart is in good hands. I have a lot to offer and if you're interested, let's be friends and then maybe between us break out the fire of love. Timothy write me, I'll be waiting!

Loving lady Julia"

Sorry Boe but she sounds just like the spams I get from "Married but Lonely" just to name one.
 
LMAO

[GQBlues]

This sounds a little much for a first response ... opinions?...

Opinion#1 - Yes. A bit much. Personally I'd drop her. Unless you instigated the emotional splash dance, I can't see talking about 'love' at any point, or midway through, that type of forever.

Opinion #2 - I still think it's so uncool to be posting other people's 'private' notes for public consumption.

[Gator]

Rivardco,
This differs from my correspondence with RW.   Not one RW ever told me how beautiful she was.    "Fire of love" is a cute expression but too early - you should respond that your loins are already on fire.   Also, "lonely" is a turnoff.  NEXT!
Agree with GQ on Point 2.  At least delete her name.

[IAmZon]

Am in Kharkov now, and I am impressed (relieved). I was expecting much less.   I am just so damn happy to be out of a capital city.  I really did rest up and catch-up on work, however.  I did have two meetings; one that rose to the level of interesting.  I continue to speak to her by phone - we will see.

Tomorrow I will use an agency for the first time and I feel very conflicted about it LOL.   I was on a train with some other Americans that were trading color print outs and speaking too loudly of their upcoming "dates" ... and I felt the disdain from the Ukrainians in the train.  AHH THAT KILLS ME - guilt by association.  I felt like someone just rubbed goat $hit all over me.  It is pretty bad in Kiev ... everyone thinks foreigners are here to boink the women / wife-hunting.

It sort of reminds me of a FART.   Think about how few molecules of fart that exist, yet stink up a room.

Same thing happened in Medellin, Colombia.  If you talked to someone who lived there 5 years ago, they say that gringos RUINED the city.  It is true.  In Ukraine, it is not only Americans, it is the Europeans too.

=====  OPPS! I thought I deleted her name! Done now.  Agreed ====

[Patagonie]

Rivardco,
This differs from my correspondence with RW.   Not one RW ever told me how beautiful she was.    "Fire of love" is a cute expression but too early - you should respond that your loins are already on fire.   Also, "lonely" is a turnoff.  NEXT!
Agree with GQ on Point 2.  At least delete her name.

   +1

[SANDRO43]

It sort of reminds me of a FART. Think about how few molecules of fart that exist, yet stink up a room.

It depends on the TYPE of molecules, not their number :

Why are stinky farts generally warmer and quieter than regular farts?

Most fart gas comes from swallowed air and consists largely of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, the oxygen having been absorbed by the time it reaches the anal opening. These gases are odorless, although they often pick up other (and more odiferous) components on the way through the bowel. They emerge from the anus in fairly large bubbles at body temperature. A person can often achieve a good sound with these voluminous farts, but they are commonly (but not always!) mundane with respect to odor, and don't feel particularly warm.

Another major source of fart gas is bacterial action. Bacterial fermentation and digestion processes produce heat as a byproduct as well as various pungent gases. The resulting bubbles of gas tend to be small, hot, and concentrated with stinky bacterial metabolic products. These emerge as the notorious, warm, SBD (Silent-But-Deadly), often in amounts too small to produce a good sound, but excelling in stench.

http://www.heptune.com/farts.html

[Gator]

Sandro,
 
Should you be known henceforth as Fartman?  Or simply Flatulence if Fartman is already taken.
 
 

[calmissile]

Sandro,

You really need a wife.   
You could keep her entertained 24/7.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, Should you be known henceforth as Fartman?  Or simply Flatulence if Fartman is already taken.

Sandro, You really need a wife.    You could keep her entertained 24/7.

I don't possess the abilities of Joseph Pujol, a.k.a. Le Pétomane :

[IAmZon]

I can tell there are teams here, and I am on the one that has "MONEY" tattooed to the forehead.  Not the best way to make introductions / contacts in a new city.  But, nothing else can be expected, and how could you get a foothold without paying a little tuition?


This is the cost of wanting to see much in a short period and not writing to any particular people in advance

[Eduard]

I can tell there are teams here, and I am on the one that has "MONEY" tattooed to the forehead.  Not the best way to make introductions / contacts in a new city.  But, nothing else can be expected, and how could you get a foothold without paying a little tuition?


This is the cost of wanting to see much in a short period and not writing to any particular people in advance

you are starting to "get it", Tim 

[Kuna]

Tim,

A few years ago here a mate of mine would want to go from one pub/club to the next because he wasn't having a good time...  He was always looking for something so he kept moving CONSTANTLY.  It use to p!ss me off because the rest of us would be having a ball and he'd start moaning about it being boring... or there would be something or someone he didn't like.

Anyway,  years later all of my mates (except for a few) are married, most with kids...  and Brian is still doing loops of pubs and no doubt still complaining that he wasn't having a good time.  It's sad because he has missed out on so much.

It's up to you to have a good time and to make your own fun.  Kiev isn't such a bad place is you find the things in that city that interest you.  I bet I could have a bad time in any city if I tried - and I know I can have a good time in any city if I want to.

Don't let the "too young" Columbian take your focus away from having a good time.  I don't think you need to be on a wife-hunt... but if you're there you may as well take every opportunity to enjoy yourself,  learn something new or take a different perspective.

Also,  earlier you mentioned that your "tour" was inhibiting some meetings...  I think this could be a serious problem if you want to meet women because you've experienced a taste of what MANY foreigners are like in Ukraine and therefore you'll realise that many tours would be viewed as sex-tours - even if they're not.

You may be best being honest with the women...  you ARE interested in getting married but you're not desperate and you are NOT in Ukraine to find a wife quickly.  You've read so many bad things about foreigners being in Ukraine that you decided you would do something different...  travel around Ukraine,  get a bit of a feel for the country.  You're not intending on dating but (and you may need to stretch it here) you say Yulia/Vika/Alena/Olga's profile and though you must meet!

Basically, I think women won't be impressed you're spending your time doing what you're doing (traveling and experiencing)... they'll think you're bonking your way around Ukraine because that is what the Urban Myth tells them.

I really hope you enjoy Kharkov...  I think you'll enjoy Dnepropetrovsk too if you get there.

btw...  on your travels take some photos and post them here please.  We enjoy reading your comments but a photo to take us to the time and the place would be much appreciated.   

[Anotherkiwi]

Tim,

A few years ago here a mate of mine would want to go from one pub/club to the next because he wasn't having a good time...  He was always looking for something so he kept moving CONSTANTLY.  It use to p!ss me off because the rest of us would be having a ball and he'd start moaning about it being boring... or there would be something or someone he didn't like.

Anyway,  years later all of my mates (except for a few) are married, most with kids...  and Brian is still doing loops of pubs and no doubt still complaining that he wasn't having a good time.  It's sad because he has missed out on so much...

There's only one possible song to describe Brian...and Tim if he doesn't change!
 

 
Enjoy!

[IAmZon]

Yep, I am starting to "get it".

I came DAMN CLOSE to not going to the agency yesterday morning because it all felt like "Romper Room" to me. 

Then, I had my first "date" (please!)  And, much to my surprise, she was a wonderful, beautiful (VERY), sincere woman.   And, then I had my second "date" - she looked and acted like Rene Zellweger, and she was sincere and smart and nice.  And, then I was talking to the owner of the agency and a friend of her's came to the office ... and one thing led to another.  We had diner and she was rather remarkable.  And, then I met some of the guys on the trip and while I was buying a beer, a young woman came up and introduced herself to me and talked.  She is an English teacher in Kharkov.  I got her phone and email and we are to see each other this week.

I like this city very much. The people are nice and smiling faces are not rare.  The scary guys from Prague are gone.  This is the type of place I was hoping to find.

I still have to "bring down the volume" on my personality a bit. It is OK to be fun, but things are MUCH more understated here it seems to me.   It is easy to come off as "selfish" and "egotistical" and "greedy." I am a quick study on human psychology.   This last sentence deserves it's own post.

Yeah, beautiful women are everywhere here!!!  Fortunately, I am somewhat immune to that.  The rest of the American guys are walking around shell shocked LOL  All you have to do is be normal, nice - and be know yourself, be selective.  It will take me just a little time to write something comprehensive and intelligent on the women here. 

( BTW - I do think that younger women here are a LITTLE similar to the USA.  Different from Colombian )

[TheTraveler]

Sounds like the party is picking up!
 
Keep the reports coming, Tim!

[IAmZon]

Kharkov exceeded my expectations GREATLY. 

I will, however, go to Poltava on Monday and stay for - when ever.  There is a higher frequency of English here than in South America.  As it turns out, I am just not a "tour kinda guy".  No more bla bla bla.  I will set up shop here until June 12.   I will cancel other cities.  WHY? Because friendship making does not work this way.  You have to spend time in normal situations to develop normal relationships.

I do very well here on my own (no disrespect to anyone).  AND, for those reading this post understand that I am accustomed to strange and dangerous places!  If you are not a seasoned traveler, there is nothing wrong with using services.


====


Getting back to Vienna:   I would like to go to Lvyv on my way out.  But some of these trains are difficult.  There are express trains from kiev to all old capitals: Bratislava; Prague; even Berlin. There is always a flight.  I could get fouled up here because of Soccer in early June, to i have to keep an eye on this. 

[ECOCKS]

Kharkov exceeded my expectations GREATLY. 


I will, however, go to Poltava on Monday and stay for - when ever.  There is a higher frequency of English here than in South America.  As it turns out, I am just not a "tour kinda guy".  No more bla bla bla. 


I will set up shop here until June 12.   I will cancel all my BS in other cities.


I do very well here on my own (no disrespect to anyone).  AND, for those reading this post understand that I am accustomed to strange and dangerous places!  If you are not a seasoned traveler, there is nothing wrong with using services.

Lots of us feel this way about the tour operations, so you're not alone in your thoughts here.

Interesting that Kharkiv struck a chord in you, can't wait to hear how you view Poltava.

Figured out how you are getting back to Vienna yet?

[IAmZon]

Yeah, beautiful women are everywhere here!!!  Fortunately, I am somewhat immune to that.  The rest of the American guys are walking around shell shocked LOL  All you have to do is be normal, nice - and be know yourself, be selective.  It will take me just a little time to write something comprehensive and intelligent on the women here

I don't mean to come off as arrogant, but after living in Colombia, beauty becomes not such a rare thing.  My life, over the last several years, has been a nice variety of experiences.



A couple of points and impressions ...


First, I love beautiful legs and sexy shoes - so, I have found the center of the universe for me.  Second, I see now that there is a strong tendency on a tour, WMVM, or vacation to place too great of emphasis on meeting, and hardly any on knowing.   I see this with some men here who have had 4 - 5 meetings a day.  The meetings become an end in and of themselves.  One more than one occasion, a guy really like a girl, but had to cut it short because of logistical reasons. (think about how asinine that is?!?) 


Better women seem a little jaded.  They have seen the worst in men many times over.  There needs to be greater care taken in the first several meetings to warm things up correctly, and these women have an ongoing life (work children etc..)  So, we are talking one or two weeks - minimum.


I have found one woman of interest.  I will see her again.  I will use agencies MUCH more now. I plan to meet after everybody leaves with the agency owners over lunch and get a deeper sense into possible matches.   I will focus on Kharkov and Poltava now, only.   I met a couple women in Kiev, but I don't need to spend time there ever again.  This time, I will not worry about language so much.  I have met many people that have "No English" but that is not true.  If it is a college educated, serious person, she has studied English.  50% of the music is English.  English is NOT the killer that I assumed it would be.   Also, I am relaxing my criteria on if a woman has a child.  On this point, one can not generalize.  So, my list has expanded considerably.

[Vinnvinny]

Best of luck rivardco with agency girls in Poltava. Personally I believe the place is scam central and that you would have been far better off going to Lugansk, but each to their own.