Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[ML]

I'm not sure I get this. You're entitled to a hot size 6 Gal in jeans and a tight sweater or is Gal entitled to the buffet? No bread I'm guessing? 

No, I don't feel I am entitled to anything in my life.  I have worked very hard for most everything . . . and sometimes I am just lucky!!   

Yes, we did have excellent fresh baked hot rolls.  Gal is against eating bread now even more  than I am; but we always agree that once in a while it is OK to go crazy.  Pretty wild life we have.

Oh,  and to make some really steam . . . I forgot to mention that I sat on my azz while Gal made the several trips to get our  food.

But actually, I was receiving and sending SMS about a business deal where time was of the essence.

Plus, my Gal is a traditionalist of a different sort:  She says it is her job to do these things for me!!

[Vasilisa]

Are you kidding? Seeking an "equal relationship" with an attravtive woman 30 years younger from a developing country? Assuming that she should leave her two teenage kids behind cause the it's cheaper for the old Romeo? And then work (most probably in a minimum wage dirty job) upon arrival? All that for the privilige of sleeping with a 70-y.o. and a not so distant future of changing adult diapers? Yeah, we are taking about unrealistic expectations and a sense of entitlement here-a typical AM babyboomer mentality.

Disclaimer: I'm a firm believer in equal relationships and am living one

I agree.
I keep on saying: everyone wants to have a BETTER life.
A better life for an OP is having a  young "no problem" wife, 7+on a beauty scale, no kids, who will help him in paying the bills.
I know PLENTY of American women with the same attitude here.

The woman: she has probably worked hard all her life raising 2 kids, has had occasional sex with the men who are younger than 70 from time to time. What she wants now is to be a good WIFE, to have a great protector and a provider, etc. That's what we can hear are the advantages of OLDER men here.
What you are offering right now she can find in  relationships with a lot younger men, believe me, plus she will have a partner with a better body for sex. She CAN find a younger man online.

What makes you any better than a 40 yo man? How will her life become better from what she has right now?
She will have a worse job, a worse personal life, she will not be able to see her kids.

I personally know one Russian lady in her late 30-ies here: 5'2'', 5+ on a beauty scale, very slim. She is from Siberia, worked as an HR manager, has a 12 yo daughter.
She got divorced when she was 35, met a 37 yo American guy with a 16 yo son from a previos marriage, they got married a year after meeting. Now they live in a big house with a swimming pool, she is a stay at home mom who cooks a lot, cleans a lot, remodelling the house and they both are quite happy with that. When I asked her if she is going to go to college or start working any time soon she said probably not.

I am a Russian and I don't know any Russian women 25-40 yo who would move to the US and leave their kids behind to have an equal relationship with a 70 yo man. I think that it's you who doesn't have realistic expectations, I am sorry.
If you want equality I'd recommend lookng in the US or look for older women.

[BC]

Seriously... this whole RW thing is about trading up.. that's the concept and the sell.

Why that concept is deemed somehow to be a one way street reserved for men is beyond me.

Get real folks.. it's a deal, even a contract.  To ignore it is hypocrisy.

[newjason]

I personally know one Russian lady in her late 30-ies here: 5'2'', 5+ on a beauty scale, very slim. She is from Siberia, worked as an HR manager, has a 12 yo daughter.
She got divorced when she was 35, met a 37 yo American guy with a 16 yo son from a previos marriage, they got married a year after meeting. Now they live in a big house with a swimming pool, she is a stay at home mom who cooks a lot, cleans a lot, remodelling the house and they both are quite happy with that. When I asked her if she is going to go to college or start working any time soon she said probably not.

Vasilisa
What you describe here is a perfectly normal Functional Family. Both are the same age, hade a child about the same times, and are together because they are compatable.  Each knows thier function and contributes to the family unit. She is a Mom , he is a Dad, they both have a common goal and are working together toward that goal, the raising of the children.  They are good parents because they are not selfish and they know that by each doing their part to provide a safe and happy home for the kids,  that is the most important ideal.  Therefore, Happiness is the result of a marriage like this.


Now on the flip side of this, compare the average FSU Wife seeker and the average available FSU Bride to be. IMO Each has their own agenda and goal of what "better" means to them.
The only common thread between these two people, when all is said and done, it's simply financial.
One is in the position of power, and the other wants to be.  Each is wanting something, It really makes no difference who they get it from, as long as the end result is achieved.  These two types of people IMO are using each other to further their agenda. This by definition is a dysfunctional pair, because there is no common goal, no team work, no chance it will ever be anything more than a perceived benefit from the other.

There is nothing wrong with this type of arrangement, as long as both understand what is expected from the other, and both agree to the terms.  But this can hardly be painted to appear as a marriage. It is not. It is an exchange, or a swap meeting.

The part that mystifies me is this:

What exactly are these people gaining? 

Let's say that the OP and that woman had arranged to have her children finish school in their own country, and she would come to his country alone.

What is being gained by this? I mean how is this "better" for  each one?

I do understand that woman wants a financed future, security, college funds, and free time to do as she pleases. In otherwords , she want to win the Lottery.  Nothing wrong with that, that is her goal and that is her plan on how she will make her life "better"
But at what cost?

The OP get a young beautiful wife to work and show off to all his golf pals.  A trophy.
At what price?

It is one thing to have an arrangement, where each party  agrees to the exchange of whatever for whatever...

But it is quite another to call this a marriage and try to rationalize it as such.


This whole MOB thing is so interesting to me. 
I keep thinking it's all together very much like the 
 Schrödinger's cat experiment.


Maybe a better analogy would be, Donald trump  marries Snookie and put's her in charge of his finances, then is shocked when he discovers he is broke and finds her passed out in the dryer pregnant   but not from him...
 

I am kidding of course. 

[ECOCKS]

Setting aside for a moment the average FSUW's mental issues, duplicity and sense of entitlement AND the age gap situation, it's worth pointing out something.

What is in the best interests of the child?

You DO remember the children, right?

The fact is that unless these two children both speak pretty good English already, their education will suffer significantly by being moved during their Senior HS years. In this situation my advice would have been to get the kids into intensive English classes immediately and bring them over for summers until they finish HS. Then, bring them and put them into a prep program and get them started working and building some support of their own for college.

Tactically, the only thing I really fault the OP for would be mentioning the father. Suggesting they stay with the grandparents (you're still going to be sending some money) would have been received much more calmly.

You marry a woman with two mid-teenagers, financial problems are just the beginning of your issues. You are going to have all the things that go with teens compounded by the language difficulties, socialization and learning our work/academic ethics. Oh yeah, along with ALL the problems which accompany being in a second/third/fourth/whatever marriage with a blended family.

So the old adage applies: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Date women with GROWN CHILDREN unless you have completely thought through the implications of children still in the house. At the very least, screen for ones who have no children living with them.

You can work out at the gym everyday, take little blue pills like M&M's, work up your credit limits and dance-floor skills all you want but dealing with teenaged step-children AND a younger wife who doesn't want to work are stress multipliers to the challenges you will be facing bringing a FSUW to a new country.

Now if your response is that you simply must have your 39-year old because (fill in the blank) then recognize that this is a decision you're making and be prepared to get these things out on the table long before you start planning on doing that K1 paperwork.

[Vasilisa]

What I meant is to be equal you have TO BE EQUAL.
It doesn't mean being equal in paying the bills only.
It means being equal in age, family values, salary, job, etc.

If something isn't equal there there are variants like one part is giving more of something, another part is giving more of another thing, then you will get a balance.

A 70 yo guy from the US with a job and a local education, knowledge of the laws, rules and the language.
Another side a 40 yo single mom of 2 teenagers, who loves them, who will have to leave her job, her kids, her country, her customs and traditions behind and  start everything from the very beginning like a 17 yo kid. For WHAT?!  Having a low paid job she doesn't like, living with an old man?!

Being EQUAL?! If he wants equality let him find a 70 yo American woman with the local education, local job, the same background, no kids. That's when we can talk about being equal. 

If he wants something better than that he always pays this way or that way.
There' no free ride, guys, be realists. Even when you win a lottery you pay, you pay getting into the troubles you didn' have before. There is no free ride, you pay this way or that way, for everything good in your life.

[Vasilisa]

I have to admit that I don't see this so much as the "entitlement attitude" but more of a goals incompatibility, however, adding two teenage girls to the mix with the idea that it's the new husband's obligation to pay for their education would be in the realm of unrealistic.


 Yeah, if she wants to sit on her butt (when she's not shopping) and bring nothing but expense to the relationship, it's a different story. .

What is the difference between 2 people living together and having sex and having a family?

[ECOCKS]

What I meant is to be equal you have TO BE EQUAL.
It doesn't mean being equal in paying the bills only.
It means being equal in age, family values, salary, job, etc.

If something isn't equal there there are variants like one part is giving more of something, another part is giving more of another thing, then you will get a balance.

A 70 yo guy from the US with a job and a local education, knowledge of the laws, rules and the language.
Another side a 40 yo single mom of 2 teenagers, who loves them, who will have to leave her job, her kids, her country, her customs and traditions behind and  start everything from the very beginning like a 17 yo kid. For WHAT?!  Having a low paid job she doesn't like, living with an old man?!

Being EQUAL?! If he wants equality let him find a 70 yo American woman with the local education, local job, the same background, no kids. That's when we can talk about being equal. 

If he wants something better than that he always pays this way or that way.
There' no free ride, guys, be realists. Even when you win a lottery you pay, you pay getting into the troubles you didn' have before. There is no free ride, you pay this way or that way, for everything good in your life.

Absolutely!

Guys, hope you are paying attention because this is a lesson without having to pay for the letter, phone calls, flowers or babushkas kidney transplant!

[Vasilisa]

Another thing, guys, when you are blaming women for being gold diggers, don't forget one thing: just be more precise in your profiles and combine the best of the 2 worlds, just write in the profile: "I am a dreamer who has been looking for my Stepford  princess for long, long, long years and I am not giving up, I just decided to look in a different place: so, here I am , old Romeo: I'm looking for the idi///eeerrr, lady who will  work like an American and pay the bills, but she has to be 30 years younger, look 10/10, cook a lot, clean the house, wash the car, never complain,drama free, love baseball and football and always listen to what I say. No kids, please"
 

[ECOCKS]

Another thing, guys, when you are blaming women for being gold diggers, don't forget one thing: just be more precise in your profiles and combine the best of the 2 worlds, just write in the profile: "I am a dreamer who has been looking for my Stepford  princess for long, long, long years and I am not giving up, I just decided to look in a different place: so, here I am , old Romeo: I'm looking for the idi///eeerrr, lady who will  work like an American and pay the bills, but she has to be 30 years younger, look 10/10, cook a lot, clean the house, wash the car, never complain,drama free, love baseball and football and always listen to what I say. No kids, please"

Vasilia, I am disappointed. So far you have given such an honest appraisal yet you left off some...er...uh..."wifely duties" that will be expected in this arrangement.

Don't start holding back now.

[pitbull]

Vasilia, I am disappointed. So far you have given such an honest appraisal yet you left off some...er...uh..."wifely duties" that will be expected in this arrangement.

Don't start holding back now.

I think those ...er...uh..."wifely duties" you are referring to won't be exepected much in this arrangement.. with the 70 yo stallion 
 

[Vasilisa]

I think those ...er...uh..."wifely duties" you are referring to won't be exepected much in this arrangement.. with the 70 yo stallion 

That's a good note!
I forgot to add :"being a RN is a plus"

[ML]

Ladies, why all this railing against 70 y.o. men?

Have any of you been forced to marry a 70 y.o. man?
Are any of the other women looking for a  foreign mate being forced to marry 70 y.o. men . . . or men of any age for that matter.

Women control who they marry; so why the complaints??

[ECOCKS]

I think those ...er...uh..."wifely duties" you are referring to won't be exepected much in this arrangement.. with the 70 yo stallion 

Probably, like the fantasy, they mostly involve dressing up and talking like a naughty little bunny....... 

[calmissile]

Visilisa,'

You like so many others do not bother to read the original post or the clarification I gave later.
You are responding to the suppositons and other off topic rhetoric that has crept into the thread along the way.  I guess it is the nature of the beast!

For some reason all the age-gap haters come out of the woodwork on every thread they think it fits.  You will note that the original post had nothing to do with age gap.  It was all generated within the thread.  As I explained earlier, I was not pursuing this women.  She contacted me after reading my profile and wanted to explore a possible relationship.  Since she is a grown woman of 39 I would assume that she has not only the legal ability but the maturity to decide for herself what she wants.  I doubt that a woman of that age needs the help of the age haters here to make those decisions.  She is way out of the age range I advertise for in my profile and it was HER that chose to explore a relationship.  I had no visions that I would marry her, but found it interesting to explore her mind and logic to see how she thought it could work.  Futhermore, I thought it would be instructive for the men on the forum to see how this scenerio with 2 kids in college would be received by most men.  It had nothing to do with our respective ages.  However, as a result of all the discussion about it, let me further clarify.....

I had sent her my full bio/extended profile.  Within it, it makes very clear that I would expect my wife to work and help support the family.  It also describes daily life with me in the US including the fact that I expect to continue doing most of  the housework, etc. since she will be working.  My age is clearly stated in the on line profile as well as the extended bio.  Both the age difference and the expectation to work are pasted from my Skype log below.  It is clear that for the better part of 3 weeks she implied that she accepted the age difference as well as the expectation to work.  I had made no commitment to her but was interested in how she thought this scenerio could possibly work.

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[3/16/2012 8:43:52 AM] Evgeniya 39: I SHALL tell About MYSELF. I SIMPLY WOMAN, I HAVE TWO CHILDREN, CHILDREN are very important In my LIFE, I HAVE closely read through YOUR BIOGRAPHY, I LIKED YOUR INTERESTS, we HAVE SIMILAR much, I LOVE BEAUTY SALONS, I LOVE CARES Of the APPEARANCE, BEAUTIFUL DRESSES LIKE me, I ACTIVE, I WORKED In the LIFE much And I WISH TO HAVE the MAN WHICH TO GIVE CARE CONCERNING me, I LIKE TO DANCE the CAMPAIGN At CINEMA of TRAVEL, I the PERSON WHICH LOVE the LIFE

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[3/16/2012 9:39:16 AM] Evgeniya 39: When you wrote the biography .я I wish to specify, you want that your wife worked?
[3/16/2012 9:39:25 AM] Doug Wilson: Yes of course.
[3/16/2012 9:39:30 AM] Evgeniya 39: ok

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[3/16/2012 1:54:21 PM] Doug Wilson: Do you have any problem with our age difference?  I am much older.
[3/16/2012 1:54:42 PM] Evgeniya 39: for me important feel
[3/16/2012 1:54:45 PM] Evgeniya 39: not old
[3/16/2012 1:56:02 PM] Evgeniya 39: where i can work in america
[3/16/2012 1:56:28 PM] Doug Wilson: I will have to think about it.  Your
[3/16/2012 1:56:45 PM] Doug Wilson: English is good, so that makes it easier.
[3/16/2012 1:58:17 PM] *** Call ended, duration 23:33 ***

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[3/25/2012 11:14:57 PM] Doug Wilson: Both girls in High School?
[3/25/2012 11:15:05 PM] Evgeniya 39: in coleg
[3/25/2012 11:15:20 PM] Doug Wilson: Both of them?
[3/25/2012 11:16:17 PM] Evgeniya 39: yes
[3/25/2012 11:16:23 PM] Doug Wilson: Very good!

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[3/27/2012 1:03:58 PM] Doug Wilson: Can your children stay in Ukraine to finish college while you come to US?
[3/27/2012 1:04:13 PM] Doug Wilson: I did not realize they were in college already.
[3/27/2012 1:04:27 PM] Evgeniya 39: i canot withaut my kids go in usa
[3/27/2012 1:04:36 PM] Doug Wilson: ok.
[3/27/2012 1:04:56 PM] Doug Wilson: It is very, very expensive to go to college in the USA.
[3/27/2012 1:05:11 PM] Doug Wilson: How long before they finish college in Ukraine?
[3/27/2012 1:05:25 PM] Evgeniya 39: 2 years
[3/27/2012 1:05:30 PM] Doug Wilson: OK
[3/27/2012 1:06:08 PM] Doug Wilson: You would not want to interrupt their college education in  Ukraine.  It would not be good.
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[3/27/2012 1:12:11 PM] Evgeniya 39: beffor i have the same situation and man alwayse be angree becoz all be expensive
[3/27/2012 1:12:38 PM] Doug Wilson: I wondered if your children could live with their father until they finish college and then come to the US.
[3/27/2012 1:12:54 PM] Doug Wilson: Yes, it is expensive but no reason to be angry.
[3/27/2012 1:13:26 PM] Doug Wilson: It is best to explore possibilites to resolve problems.  No reason to get angry.
[3/27/2012 1:14:11 PM] Doug Wilson: Was the man an American?
[3/27/2012 1:14:29 PM] Evgeniya 39: franch
[3/27/2012 1:14:33 PM] Doug Wilson: OK
[3/27/2012 1:14:44 PM] Evgeniya 39: I and children this single whole, am useless to speak the Ukrainian woman about break with children]
[3/27/2012 1:15:18 PM] Doug Wilson: Yes, I understand about Ukrainian women and their children.   
[3/27/2012 1:15:59 PM] Evgeniya 39: good
[3/27/2012 1:16:00 PM] Doug Wilson:
[3/27/2012 1:16:30 PM] Evgeniya 39: I to not choose between the man and children
[3/27/2012 1:16:42 PM] Evgeniya 39: im choise == only kids
[3/27/2012 1:16:54 PM] Doug Wilson: I understand perfectly.

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[3/27/2012 1:18:02 PM] Evgeniya 39: and hope u good undst me
[3/27/2012 1:18:38 PM] Doug Wilson: What subjects are your kids taking in college?  Learning for what kind of career or work?
[3/27/2012 1:19:22 PM] Doug Wilson: Yes, I understand you very well.
[3/27/2012 1:20:51 PM] Evgeniya 39: economical
[3/27/2012 1:21:02 PM] Doug Wilson: That is good.
[3/27/2012 1:21:19 PM] Doug Wilson: It would be very good for them to learn English well.
[3/27/2012 1:21:38 PM] Evgeniya 39: yes

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[3/28/2012 9:19:42 PM] Evgeniya 39: im want one time in my life have man who say me d work relax at home ... u all life work
[3/28/2012 9:20:43 PM] Doug Wilson: That would be nice.  I would like to find a rich wife so I do not have to work, but the world does not work that way.     

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[3/28/2012 9:30:53 PM] Evgeniya 39: i want just man who care about me and kids
[3/28/2012 9:31:09 PM] Evgeniya 39: in ukr or usa
[3/28/2012 9:31:15 PM] Evgeniya 39: but i find

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[3/28/2012 9:35:25 PM] Doug Wilson: It sounds like I cannot meet your requirements.   
[3/28/2012 9:36:27 PM] Evgeniya 39: but be better know it now
[3/28/2012 9:36:34 PM] Doug Wilson: Yes, that is true.
[3/28/2012 9:36:47 PM] Evgeniya 39: and im sure all be good in ur life and my too

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As you can read yourself there was no deceit on either party, simply a delay in learning that she is looking for a man to take her and her kids with her staying at home and not working.  In spite of all the rhetoric in the thread about what is right and wrong, I do not fault her for what she is looking for.  I was more curious as to how she would propose to make a marriage of out these circumstances.  i.e. the kids will be in school for 2 more years, before they can migrate to another country.  She is unwilling to leave without the kids, even temporarily.  Unfortunately, I did not learn how she would propose a solution to all this perhaps because of my mentioning staying with the father temporarily.  While I know of many, many, cases of this happening in the US, it is clearly a cultural difference in the FSU.  Like everything else, we are all still learning all these differences piecemeal even with the help of the books and forum threads.  At any rate it was a very intersting 3 weeks and neither of us is dissapointed and it would have been very unlikely that I would have married someone her age for a variety of reasons.

Now back to the original topics.
The Entitlement topic has been pretty well covered with two sets of divergent opinions.  Some think that it a mans reponsibility to take on a ready made family and not expect the wife to work.  The other side seems to think that in todays world, it is not unreasonable to expect the wife to work.  I guess that is just a question that the two parties need to work out before becoming deeply involved in a relationship  Like other things, if it is not agreed ahead of time it could spell disaster.

The question of how many FSU women in her situation are simply throwing the bait out was never answered and perhaps cannot be. Instead, the thread evolved into the what is right and who should do this and that, etc.  Even the ladies on the forum (except one) thinks she has a slim chance of meeting her goals.  I don't blame her for trying though!

With the exception of the comments about having sex with an old geezer, the wilting weenie, and changing diapers, etc., it has been an interesting discussion with many points of view.  Thanks for the participation.

[ECOCKS]

Hmmm, I thought I was pretty clear in the first few responses, that yes, they "throw out the lure" in hopes of reeling in a deep pockets fish.
 
 I always loved how many had a profile picture that was supposed to look like an accident that almost showed you just a hint of what lay at the end of the path.....

[Steamer]

One of the reasons I think my wife and I have stayed married is that we discussed  our expectations before we were married. I wanted a wife that worked, she wanted to work, check. I had to pay for and support getting her US credentials, check. The kid must get a college education and we BOTH may kick his butt to make this happen, check.
The point is that communication is vital. If something isn't expressly talked about, then it wasn't discussed. Like my wife says if something isn't expressly forbidden then it is legal.

[Gylden]

Doug,
What made you decide to pursue conversations with her, when she was clearly out of your age range?
From the conversations you posted, it seems to me she wasn't all that good with English.
 
Frustrations can really build from both parties, when the communications link is so weak.
The age of her kids would indicate that they are still in what we would call high school not college.
 
In the end it seemed to me that she knew it wouldn't work out and was looking for a reason to just end the contact.
 
FWIW, my wife and I had a similar situation, she had two kids the same age. I think it would be a very BAD sign if a woman was willing to leave her kids behind (assuming they are living with her already).

[Ade]

Doug,
What made you decide to pursue conversations with her, when she was clearly out of your age range?

Yes, it's a point he seems to be sidestepping. 


It's not exactly good netiquette to post a private conversation either. From the inferences I've read elsewhere, I gather his last engagement ended when she found out about him posting pictures and information about them on another forum; if that's the case, this guy doesn't learn from his mistakes.

[calmissile]

Gylden,  Fair question, but I thought I had answered it earier.

Mostly curriousity!  Men continually get unsolicted letters from women much younger than what we are seeking in our profiles.  Most of the forum comments over history suggest that they are scammers, gold diggers, etc.  This women is 39 and not the typical 20+ year old fitting the scammer profile.  Since it was her pursing me, I decided to follow along to see how she percieved this could result in a marriage.  Many of us converse with many women and develop friendships that do not result in marriage.  It also helps us understand the culture by having first hand conversations with ladies from the FSU even though it may not lead to anything serious.

Many of my friends from this forum have in depth conversations about our experinces via chat, emails, and Skype and I have learned that this is a very common practice to continue conversations with women whereby we have collectively determined that we are not going to have a romance , but remain friends and pen pals..  In fact the private conversations in Chat and Skpe between members has been much more productive than the posts in the forums.  We avoid the posters such as the one below your post.

She knows English rather well and the voice conversations we had on Skype were excellent.  We had weeks of small talk on Skype and emails before getting to the question about the childrens education.  I do not feel there was any frustration at all.  We both understood each other quite well.

I think your assumption that she was looking for a way to break the contact is in error.  Ukrainian women do not need a reason to break contact, they simply do not reply.  I am not sure why you are trying to make this into something more complicated that it was.

I cannot argue with you that it would be a bad sign if she would leave her children behind (permanently).  That was not the intent.  It was to explore what her thinking was in order to fulfill her dream of coming to the US, presumably not waiting for 2 years.  Having her kids try and transfer during their education did not seem to make a lot of sense to me.   So what was her idea to resolve this...... I don't know.  We are not in disagreement on this topic.  I do not know the culture in the UK, however in America it is very common for divorced parents to agree on what is best for the children and that may often lead to the child living with one parent or the other until graduation.  Clearly there is a large cultural difference between the FSU and the US on this matter.  You infer that your culture in the UK is more in line with that of the FSU.  It may be the case I don't know.

Many in this thread are trying to make this a lot more  complicated than it was.  We chatted with small talk over several weeks, I asked how would we deal the kids education and she ended up indicating that she wants a man that will accept her kids and support them and her without her working to help support the family.  End of Story.  We are still on each others Skype accounts and are free to continue our chats as we desire.  I hope she finds what she wants.

As a sub-note.  I had a conversation with a Phd English teacher in Crimea tonight on Skpe.  She is within my advertised dating range and we have been corresponding for several weeks.  Unlike the 39 year old, this lady is much more reserved.  She also was sent the long bio/profile weeks ago so she knows about my requirement that my wife works.  Tonight, was the first time we have live audio on Skype at her request.  Her English is excellant and we had a very lengthy conversation.  She was not dressed, so did not turn on her video.  She had video from my end for the first time.  With the flap that developed over the 39 year old, I decided to approach the same question about her 17 year old son (except I am wiser now and did not suggest separating the lioness from her cub).  During our verbal conversation I asked point blank, are you serious about wanting to immigrate to the US?  Her response was something to the affect that yes, that is her dream.  Her son is in college taking a business major.  I then asked what were her sons plans for the future.  Her response was " I am sure he will be happy with the decison".   Well, just to show that even an old fart can learn, I assumed that this meant he will be coming with mama to the US!

There are a lot of funny stories that we share in private among members, but there is no way we are going to try and post them to the forum.  The number of sharks in this tank that enjoy attacking everyones experiences do not make it worth the effort to have to continually defend yourself.  If you are not one of these people you will be welcome to join many of us in the chat room as well as many of us that are on each others Skype accounts.  The forum is a great place to meet people, and then based on their posts, decide who to develop a friendship with.  We have RWD dignataries such a Slumba, OlgaH, Mendy, and many others that contribute a lot in the civilized chat room.

[Gylden]

LOL, I know what you mean about the shark infested waters. It is one of the reasons I quit posting as much as I used to.
 
I guess my question about pursuing the conversations with her were directed at what seems like your pre-understood ideas about such large age gaps making difficulties (for the most part) or at least raising integrity questions. The result of which reflects exactly those beliefs. Reaffirming that they are for the most correct.
 
I am not meaning to assume so much, just it seemed to me from the excerpts you posted that the conversations were deteriorating. Although we just have a piece or pieces of the correspondence between you two, I am not certain that her not working is/was her intended position, it sounded to me that it might have developed into that.
 
You can see here on the forum that quite a few FSUW think it is quite normal to expect to trade beauty and youth for financial security. Maybe it has something to do with a bit of insecurity on their part (believing that they have only beauty and youth to contribute). Reasonable men know that there will be difficult times for anyone relocating and are very willing to help/support/do what ever he can to ensure the transition goes well. Can go on and on, but I think the sharks can smell blood at this point LOL.
 
My advice (not that you really need it) would be to stick to your age requirements and not to waste time on curiosity (curiosity killed the cat you know). It is a waste of time after all.
 
But another subject, about education and children changing schools/countries without finishing in the FSU first. Think about it this way. If a 15/16 yo transfers for example from their school in the FSU to a high school in the US, when they graduate they will be on an even playing field with US kids. If they wait until they finish school in the FSU, not sure it will be recognised and they might still be required to go some years to high school or at least take a proficiency exam before continuing on (not to mention the immersion in the language thing). My wife and I have experienced this directly with her kids and we are both very glad we put in the extra effort to do it. Her kids are really flying as a result
 
I am more than happy to respond/share in PMs about our experiences. It has been a very wonderful experience for us both.

FWIW, I am American living in Norway, not from the UK :-)
 

[happyandstable]

I for one strongly agree with the "Sharks" in the water point of view. This is why I do not post much in forums anymore.

I have talked to Doug at length many times and know far more about him the most of the posters here. They have many things wrong about him. Among the most interesting to me is the fact they are assuming he is sitting at home living on a pension. This could not be farther from the truth. Doug puts more hours into work every week then most people half his age. His mind is also sharper then most people half his age.

He posted a simple question about "Entitlement" and yet a string of posters chose to jump on the age difference rather then answer the simple post.

Investigate before you pontificate would be good advice to all.

What does the age difference have to do with anything two consenting adults do? And what does it have to do with unrealistic expectations of FUSW?

There are many successful marriages with large age difference as well as failures. There are also many unsuccessful marriages between individuals with close ages. Yet none of the posters bother to investigate the statistics about that fact.

One wonders if those same individuals that are so quick to point out their obvious erroneous assumptions will be willing to point out equal erroneous assumptions of young ladies looking for that elusive “Sugar Daddy”

I any case I do not think either Doug or the lady in question has any bad intent but that it is simply as posted before

I have to admit that I don't see this so much as the "entitlement attitude" but more of a goals incompatibility,

[ECOCKS]

You think there are "many" successful age gap marriages?

Wow, I'd be interested in knowing the statistics then. Out of the thousands of marriages encountered in my lifetime I'd have to say it would be challenging to remember more than 4-5 which were even remotely successful.

I'd think Hollywood and Rolling Stone would be reporting these as proof that people like Demi, Mel, Liz, various rockstars and wealthy businessmen/women were not complete fools for playing out their dramas on the world stage.

I'd also wonder if there are so many of them why it's an on-going theme in movies, books, anecdotes, jokes and movies? You'd think some courageous film-maker such as Michael Moore (he seems to have been between projects for the last little while) would have jumped on the bandwagon and presented the preponderance of facts about these successful marriages rather than allowing the myths to be perpetuated and the mockery to continue.

As for sharks biting at Doug, my understanding is that he isn't looking for one of these relationships and is searching up in his age range. The commentary is based on discussing the situation he outlined which involved a 68 year-old and a 39 year-old.

The view seems to be that in those sort of gap relationships the percentage of entitlement expectations could well go up significantly over those in which a 23 year-old construction worker proposes to a 22 year-old cell phone store clerk.

[Faux Pas]

I for one strongly agree with the "Sharks" in the water point of view. This is why I do not post much in forums anymore.

Okay, I'll bite.  Sure there are those looking to find the slightest bit of fault in a posters message or even willing to pontificate some fault in a posters message. I personally view this as a service to the poster. Whether the responses are positive or negative makes no difference. If a poster's message cuts the muster and when it doesn't, gives the poster something to reflect on and consider.

Forums with FSUW themes are no different from other forums. When you post something prepare to defend it or prepare for a degree of ridicule. If the thought or idea is sound in basis the detractors are usually few in number. If that bother's you, grow yourself a pair or quit posting. It's an internet forum. Nothing more, nothing less. Few really care about your feelings being hurt. Few are here for the purpose of massaging ego. I'm not making this up, it's just the way it is. Deal with it or move on. There is nothing ever posted here that "should" offend or anger you. If it does perhaps it's you with the problem?

FTR, I am not referring to just you or you in general. It took me several years bouncing around these boards before I finally "got it". These words on the screen of forums can be a helpful or a damage to the psyche. It just depends on how you choose to use it.

[happyandstable]

I agree with all you said Faux Pas.

P.S. just for the record I do have a pair just see no need to flaunt them