Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[Ade]

When you look at this situation, you got to look at the marriage. There is a problem with the husband and wife, the husband is out looking because he is not satisfied...that is between the couple....if they cannot work things out then divorce is an option. The 'other women' is just a pawn in the situation....she is getting her needs met, that is only thing she sees, while the husband apparently is getting his needs met. Of course, you have to feel bad for the wife and kids. But remember, 'the other women'...is probably just one of many...are you going to blame every women this husband sleeps with? Kinda reminds me of Tiger's situation....has an affair with what...18 women......who does the blame lie there?
No one knows what was said between a husband/wife and their lovers!!!!!

I find this way of thinking bizarre. The 18 women in your example are all complicit in the deceit; the "blame" is not diluted by numbers. Sure the man is still guilty of cheating on his wife and sure the weight of the guilt is on his shoulders, but if the women know he's married, they are, to hijack a legal term, aiding and abetting in the act and enabling it. At the very least the women's actions are morally questionable and certainly not "blameless".

[happyandstable]

Though the modern trend is to decriminalize adultery , historically, many cultures have regarded adultery as a crime. Jewish, Islamic, Christian and Hindu traditions are all unequivocal in their condemnation of adultery. In most cultures both the man and the woman are equally punishable.

    Now you can say your “lady in question is not guilty of adultery but it will not keep her from being stoned under Jewish law! This is the growing trend in our modern society. We do not take personal responsibility for our acts but tend to play the blame game. For example I am not guilty of adultery because I am not the married partner in this sex act. But Jewish law would say that she violated her covenant with God, and is therefore just as guilty as the married man. The community would gather and stone them both to death, Ahh for the good old days.

[mies]

Interesting thread..
I wonder does this woman have any idea she is the topic of all this attention?

No, she doesn't, and I hope she won't find out.
But i don't know her, and all the information discussed is from her public blog. I didn't look for her blog intentionally, bumped into it accidentally while browsing the web and blogs.

[mies]

    Now you can say your “lady in question is not guilty of adultery but it will not keep her from being stoned under Jewish law!

Maybe you should make it your headline on dating sites 
Let's see what rate of response you'll get.

On a separate topic: let's switch gears for a moment. Should a single man who is sleeping with married woman be stoned too?

And a question to "Happyandstable": Was Ecocks a cheater when he had an affair with married woman? Do you think Ecocks should have been stoned?

Ecocks, how would you feel about the perspective of being stoned? Do you think this is a necessary and appropriate measure in our society?  (Happyandstable looks like he's volunteering for stone-throwing  )
Ecocks, I am not trying to pick on you, and I am sorry for using you as an "example" in my post. If you want, I will remove this part.

[Gator]

Mies,
 
Keep probing. I am pleased to see that a FSUW is not so quick to rush to sanctimonious judgments about other people  without all the facts. 
 
Nevertheless, in the case of your defendent, it seems that you are the devil's advocate.   

[ECOCKS]

Maybe you should make it your headline on dating sites 
Let's see what rate of response you'll get.

On a separate topic: let's switch gears for a moment. Should a single man who is sleeping with married woman be stoned too?

And a question to "Happyandstable": Was Ecocks a cheater when he had an affair with married woman? Do you think Ecocks should have been stoned?

Ecocks, how would you feel about the perspective of being stoned? Do you think this is a necessary and appropriate measure in our society?  (Happyandstable looks like he's volunteering for stone-throwing  )
Ecocks, I am not trying to pick on you, and I am sorry for using you as an "example" in my post. If you want, I will remove this part.

Meh, I brought it up and it is what it is, a dumb thing done by a young man. What her feelings were I couldn't guess. I heard a few years later that she eventually got divorced and received custody of the children.

Should I be stoned to death? That punishment seems [to me] a bit extreme and I think most would say it doesn't fit the crime so, "no".

Should the woman? Not in my world. She should be easily divorced (if the husband wishes) and she should lose much of her compensation for material possessions in the process. AND the judge should consider the infidelity, lack of character and poor judgment when deciding who gets custody of the children.

I see no difference in punishments for the husband or wife who commits adultery in the world I wish existed.

[Gator]

I was just going to post the same thing. Strange how folks react according to the subject that's perceived as someone with 'more' social value. An ordinary John Doe with a bit of cash gets away from the marauding crowd, but make him someone of notoriety, all of the sudden hatchet is swung on a different direction.

Tiger's decision to have hundreds of sexual dalliances was a personal choice.  He broke no laws.  The matter was settled with his wife and he lost big.  Many will say he never should have married.  Nevertheless, that part of Tiger's saga is over. 
 
Since then the one thing that he treasured above all, namely his golf game, degraded and still shows no signs of returning on a consistent basis.  His goal to prove that he was the best golfer ever will soon be out of reach, if not already.  He did seem to play better golf when hanging around with sluts.
 
I miss Tiger's legendary golf game.  However, the game of golf is bigger than Tiger and is just as entertaining as when Tiger was at the top.
 
Regarding Rachel Uchitel, I imagine that she was very upset to learn of Tigers many women with whom the press had associated her, and indeed many of the women were trollops.  Evidently Rachel has enough class to rise above that.

[Gator]

A man (or woman) may be emotionally involved with someone and just happen to meet someone else who changes his (her) life.  It happens.
 
Is it bad?  Yes, because it can destroy a family.  However, if both the man and woman are much happier, have something for more special and enduring than sex, have ended their previous relationships, and continue to be active parents to children if any, I have trouble finding fault with them.  I will not applaud it, yet I will not judge them.
 
In the case of the particular 27-yo UW identified by mies, I find fault with both her and the man because it seems her relationships are about sex and payment, nothing else.

[ECOCKS]

The problem I have is that the married one broke their contract with their spouse.

Break a contract, pay an "appropriate" penalty per the laws of the society you live in......

I know the "other man/woman" did something they should feel guilty about (assuming they willingly/enthusiastically entered into the relationship knowing the other was married).

[mies]

Nevertheless, in the case of your defendent, it seems that you are the devil's advocate.

Thank you, Gator.

the girl is not my defendant.  I am just interested in what people think and why do they think/feel this way, hence the probing and provocative remarks.

It is also interesting to find out some radical views among forum members - I would have never thought that western men in a modern society still view the barbaric ritual of stoning as a viable solution to adultery. A learning point for FSU females: you never know whom you are going to meet in a civilized western world.
 

[Chicagoguy]

It is also interesting to find out some radical views among forum members - I would have never thought that western men in a modern society still view the barbaric ritual of stoning as a viable solution to adultery. A learning point for FSU females: you never know whom you are going to meet in a civilized western world.

What is the size of the rocks ?  Does it make a difference ?   
In my lifetime in the U.S. we have used hanging, shooting. electricity, gas and poison injections.

[GQBlues]

...Regarding Rachel Uchitel, I imagine that she was very upset to learn of Tigers many women with whom the press had associated her, and indeed many of the women were trollops.  Evidently Rachel has enough class to rise above that.

Rachel was no less like the subject woman in this thread. After losing her fiance on 9/11, she made herself a career mistress of those of elite social status, celebrities, wall street tycoons, professional athletes, etc. 10 million hush dollars of Tiger's money only slowed her down enough to actually marry a bloke named Matt Hahn, 10 years her junior (36-26), a ex-Penn baller and SF businessman.

If the story of her 'being upset to find out Tiger had other women' is true, then that's just plain hysterical. 

[Ranetka]

In reality though the woman in question would be very sucessful with MOB seekers if she tried.
 
1. She is skinny
2. If she had a glamour photo done she would look very pretty
3. She is young and happy to accept a big age gap.
4. She knows how to be very nice to her man (if she was not no-one would ever bought her a car or a flat)
 
 
I can see her potential suitor proudly saying "A very wealthy Russian man was courting My Girl but she rejected him because he was married"....
 
Strictly my opinion of course.

[vwrw]

In reality though he woman in question would be very sucessful with MOB seekers if she tried.
 
1. She is skinny
2. If she had a glamour photo done she would look very pretty
3. She is young and happy to accept a big age gap.
4. She know how to be very nice to her man (if she was not no-one would ever bought her a car or a flat)

 
I can see her potential suitor proudly saying "A very wealthy Russian man was courting My Girl but she rejected him because he was married"....
 
Strictly my opinion of course.

He would also proudly add that unlike other desperate women, she had a good job …so good that she could buy her own apartment and a car at very young age.   

[Ranetka]

He would also proudly add that unlike other desperate women, she had a good job …so good that she could buy her own apartment and a car at very young age.   

Well noted, I missed this bit. 

[Gator]

Rachel was no less like the subject woman in this thread. After losing her fiance on 9/11, she made herself a career mistress of those of elite social status, celebrities, wall street tycoons, professional athletes, etc. 10 million hush dollars of Tiger's money only slowed her down enough to actually marry a bloke named Matt Hahn, 10 years her junior (36-26), a ex-Penn baller and SF businessman.

If the story of her 'being upset to find out Tiger had other women' is true, then that's just plain hysterical.

I defer to your opinion.      You know more about her reputation than I do.

[Gator]

In reality though the woman in question would be very sucessful with MOB seekers if she tried.
 
1. She is skinny    Too skinny don't you think, but some men lose control with a slender body and D cup breasts.

2. If she had a glamour photo done she would look very pretty   She had one posted earlier.  The answer is "not pretty."   Passable maybe if fully plastered and pancaked with makeup as some UW do.  Look at her nose.  I know....I can not talk about noses given mine. 

3. She is young and happy to accept a big age gap.   Okay, point for you because that does mean she will pass some men's criteria when screening profiles.
 
4. She knows how to be very nice to her man (if she was not no-one would ever bought her a car or a flat)  What is your definition of "nice?"  Maybe she threatened to tell the wife, much like Rachel's  $10 million of hush money from Tiger (see GQ's post).

 
I can see her potential suitor proudly saying "A very wealthy Russian man was courting My Girl but she rejected him because he was married".
...
You don't have much faith in MOB seekers.

[Ranetka]

She did not have glamour photo posted. She had one with make up on in the car where the lense were clearly too short and produced an effect of the middle of her face being too big - not sure if I can explain in English.
 
Correct light, correct lenses and she'll be just fine, as good as any picture on EM. Trust the women on this, we can see signs of botox, fake boobs etc and we can see when someone has a potential for very pretty portrait.
 
Gawd, men can not see the details, can they? No man can ever see beyond fake boobs, black roots or photoshopped staged picture....
 
Gator, if she threatened her man he would not have still be with her.  Have you ever bought a present to a woman who was not your wife and you thought was boring, moany or bitchy? :-)
 
Correction: not just a present but carrying on supporting someone and bought as much as a car or a flat???
 
 
She knows how to make her man happy...
 
 
Actually, I'd like to know YOUR opinion since you are a generous man, what makes YOU buy an expensive present to a woman?

[Gator]

Gawd, men can not see the details, can they? No man can ever see beyond fake boobs, black roots or photoshopped staged picture....

Now now.  When looking at porofiles, I focused on the natural photos and mostly ignored the staged glamour photos.  And i skipped over women with revealing, provocative photos (but stopped and looked before proceeding to the next woman).

Gator, if she threatened her man he would not have still be with her.  Have you ever bought a present to a woman who was not your wife and you thought was boring, moany or bitchy? :-)   

Sure, plenty of flowers.  Flowers probably do not count in your book.  No, you are correct about big presents.  However, I did buy plenty of gifts for my wives when they were boring, moany or bitchy?
 

Correction: not just a present but carrying on supporting someone and bought as
much as a car or a flat???
Actually, I'd like to know YOUR opinion since you are a generous man, what makes YOU buy an expensive present to a woman?

 
 
I purchased a new Lada for the Moscow woman upon our one year anniversary when I said I wanted to keep dating but did not want to marry.  I felt it was fair given that I was asking her to wait, and she wanted to get married.   I really liked her because she was fun, interesting and reasonably nice to me.  Being a Moscow woman it was not her nature to be really nice.  [Folks, that is a joke, prompted by some spirited discussions at RWD about Moscow women in general.]
 
I am generous?  Maybe.  I  strive not to be pennywise, pound foolish.   
 
If involved in a relationship and happy in general I enjoy buying nice small gifts frequently and spontaneously without having an occasion.    For occasions I will spend a few hundred dollars such as Italian boots.   Perhaps a nice watch or piece of jewelry for New Year's or birthdays..  I recall spending about $1000 on gifts during each of two tours of Italy (two different RW).
 
More than these examples is a major decision with me and requires a consideration of need, alternatives, etc.   I say "No" easily, stressing that I spend more on them than on myself.  Maybe that is one part of being generous.  But spending big  money just because she wants it and I am the man....no.

[mies]

If she had a glamour photo done she would look very pretty   She had one posted earlier.  The answer is "not pretty."   Passable maybe if fully plastered and pancaked with makeup as some UW do.  Look at her nose.  I know....I can not talk about noses given mine

Gator, i didn't post her "glamorous" photo. I posted dolled-up photo taken without any preparation with phone camera, and she looks pretty there. But I removed the photo too soon for anyone to judge.
Interestingly, I also saw a photo of her with a foreigner "approximately" 50yo - he looked quite happy in her company  I was even tempted to ask here if the man on the photo is by any chance a member of our forum, but voted against this idea. Would have been a bad taste on my part.


As for "threaten the man she will tell his wife" - come on, Gator. You are a big boy. Do you REALLY think that a toy-girl in Ukraine can threaten a 40-50yo dude who earned his money illegally? Few hundred bucks and she will end up in the hospital with broken jaw, nose, cut face, or possibly found dead in the Hydropark in Kiev. Much cheaper solution than buying apartment and car.

The reaction of a wife is also somewhat hard to predict (or maybe not). I have mentioned in the other thread that in my social circle in my life in Ukraine I knew very few people who cheated, the rest are all good strong families. But one of the cases of cheating was really bad. In my high-school there was a teacher, very nice woman, elegant, classy, attractive, not very young, great person. She was married to the guy who was high-ranked in communist party during the USSR times. The family had access to all the luxuries provided to "selected communists." Then after USSR collapsed, the man regained his financial composure very fast (old connections). And in early 2000s it somehow became known that the husband was abusing this woman. He talked to her and treated her like a dog, was bringing prostitutes and other "female friends" home, using the master bedroom for fun time and sending wife to sleep in another room, or locking her in another room. Then he started beating her, she was coming to school with bruised face (in her early 50s). They spent together almost 40 years, the first 20 were more or less tolerable, the later 20 - the hell for this poor woman. She never divorced him, to this day I don't know why. Interestingly, the husband did not divorce her either, although apparently he hated her, and could have easily divorced her.

[mies]

In reality though the woman in question would be very sucessful with MOB seekers if she tried.
Strictly my opinion of course.

Ranetka, thank you! 
This is my opinion too. I was curious whether anyone else would bring it up. 

[Daveman]

Maybe you should make it your headline on dating sites 
Let's see what rate of response you'll get.

On a separate topic: let's switch gears for a moment. Should a single man who is sleeping with married woman be stoned too?
...

Well, I don't know about that particular scenario, but I can tell you I know a man who used to be single, who dated single fsu women, who would have understood them much better had he been seriously stoned!

[Muzh]

Well, I don't know about that particular scenario, but I can tell you I know a man who used to be single, who dated single fsu women, who would have understood them much better had he been seriously stoned!

Must have been some serious weed. 

[mies]

I purchased a new Lada for the Moscow woman upon our one year anniversary when I said I wanted to keep dating but did not want to marry.  I felt it was fair given that I was asking her to wait, and she wanted to get married.   I really liked her because she was fun, interesting and reasonably nice to me. 

Gator, pardon me but noticing, but i see certain similarities in your story and the "ukrainian case study."
You know, if a guy whom I wanted to marry would tell me "I will not marry you, but here is a new Lada for you" - I would broke up with him without thinking twice. Because it looks like he thinks he can buy me. If a guy tells me "I am not ready to marry yet" - I can understand this. But if he tells me "I don't want you for a wife/you cannot have me as your husband but here is a car for you service/time convenience/use" - this is humiliating. I frankly speaking see no difference, only you weren't married, and this ukrainian gal's lover is married.

[mies]

Well, I don't know about that particular scenario, but I can tell you I know a man who used to be single, who dated single fsu women, who would have understood them much better had he been seriously stoned!

If the men were American/WM by any chance - I do not recommend getting stoned. The latter would significantly increase the natural level of paranoia.

Otherwise, please refer to the following video for directions: