The Finer Points of French Grammar and Stubborn Men

[The Natural]

Well, the only question waiting to be answered - can PAS be followed by NOUS ? 

Let's ask Faux Pas 

[Patagonie]

Well well well, it seems that NOUS can follow PAS, after all .

Would "Pourquoi vous n'avez pas nous raconté votre histoire?" also be syntactically correct, or should it be "Pourquoi vous nous n'avez pas raconté votre histoire?"?

Unfortunately both are incorrect, a native will never use it, and it will be not teached at school, it will be considered as a mistake.

Correct form would be :
"Pourquoi vous ne nous avez pas raconté votre histoire ? " Why you haven't  told us your story ?
or "Pourquoi avez vous raconté votre histoire ? " Why you have told your story ?

[Muzh]

OMG.  Can I turn the clock back and I'll ask him in English? 

[SANDRO43]

Thanks, Pat.

OMG. Can I turn the clock back and I'll ask him in English? 

Only if you manipulate the space-time continuum, but you just learned how an apparently innocent question can engender a linguistic war among foreigners .

[Gator]

If this is indicative of French speakers, now I know why the French pretend to not know English. 
 
I wrote this in the other thread after the French lesson was moved:
Muzh:  Pourquoi n'avez-vous pas me raconter votre historie?                                  Google:   Why do not you tell me your historie?

Sandro:  Pourquoi n'avez-vous pas NOUS raconté votre histoire?                      Google:   Why do not you tell us your story?

 
Misha:  Pourquoi vous nous n'avez pas raconté votre histoire?                               Google:    Why have not you told your story?
 

Misha:  Pourquoi vous nous ne racontez pas votre histoire?                                        Google:    Why you do not tell your story?

 
What did I learn from this French lesson?  Muzh can not spell, and both Sandro and Misha care more about grammar than spelling.  Also, Google provides a reasonable translation.   Finally, LeFrancois is probably not French, yet realizes we are crazy.        

 
 

[Misha]

What did I learn from this French lesson?  Muzh can not spell, and both Sandro and Misha care more about grammar than spelling. 

Gator, in the French language, spelling and grammar are intertwined. In French, we have the "participe passé" whose correct spelling is determined by relatively complex grammatical rules.

[ghost of moon goddess]

"Ils sont fous ces américains!"  thought  (in a friendly way, of course) Patagonie 

[Faux Pas]

Let's ask Faux Pas 

I can't speak for what follows Pas there Roy. Only what's before it and that is Faux.

Laissez les bons temps rouler! 

[Muzh]

Only if you manipulate the space-time continuum, but you just learned how an apparently innocent question can engender a linguistic war among foreigners .

Let me ask my buddy Q and I'll get back to you. 

[Patagonie]

"Ils sont fous ces américains!"  thought  (in a friendly way, of course) Patagonie 

No , i like, they are curious, and want to dig and try to understand, which is very fine. Really. I am always admirative for people who are curious.

[Kokopelli]

I was thinking maybe this was the difference. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French

Patagonie, what is your opinion on this?

[Faux Pas]

C'est le vie

[Patagonie]

I was thinking maybe this was the difference. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French

Patagonie, what is your opinion on this?

i think this link about your question should solve the issue :
http://www.landrystuff.com/creole.htm
And about french from Quebec i think there are more skilled people to answer here. 

[Misha]

I was thinking maybe this was the difference. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French

What exactly is the difference that you imagine seeing?!? The article you cite highlights that the differences between standard French in Quebec and standard French in France are minimal    English-speakers (and some Italian-speakers) like to imagine that the French spoken in Quebec is so different, but in reality it is much closer to the French standard than the language spoken in many regions of France as is highlighted is this very funny film: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bienvenue_chez_les_Ch'tis. In the film, Picard is being spoken, related to French but largely incomprehensible....

[SANDRO43]

English-speakers (and some Italian-speakers) like to imagine that the French spoken in Quebec is so different...

If you're alluding to me, I don't recall ever making any reference to Québécois French in our discussion .

[Misha]

If you're alluding to me, I don't recall ever making any reference to Québécois French in our discussion .

You did imply that my construction was a colloquialism and you then suggested that we wait for a European to see if I was right. The implication was clear and insulting.

[SANDRO43]

You did imply that my construction was a colloquialism...

Your examples use the more informal/colloquial, non-inverted form .

Isn't the inverted construction more formal than, say, that used in everyday speech, i.e. colloquial?

and you then suggested that we wait for a European to see if I was right.

Simply because your examples were unconvincing (to me) and I wanted a second opinion - and the only other French speaker round here happens to be European.

The implication was clear and insulting.

Clear in your mind, perhaps, but not intended .

[Misha]

If the intent was not to belittle then I accept your explanation.


This is a good explanation as to the differences:


However, in the last 50 years, there has been a convergence as the standard in Canada has moved to the international standard. This is true when it comes to pronunciation, though the educated written form has always been largely identical in terms of grammar and essential vocabulary.

[Boethius]

Moot in any event, as Misha is not québécois.

[Gator]

Gator, in the French language, spelling and grammar are intertwined. In French, we have the "participe passé" whose correct spelling is determined by relatively complex grammatical rules.

Again you missed it.   Here it is as in Muzh's post which started this:   historie vs. histoire

[Misha]

Moot in any event, as Misha is not québécois.

The all knowing Beothius chimes in to decide with certainty who is what 

[Misha]

Again you missed it.   Here it is as in Muzh's post which started this:   historie vs. histoire

You are right, I did miss it, as I did not bother to really read what Muzh wrote.

[Boethius]

The all knowing Beothius chimes in to decide with certainty who is what 

You have posted you grew up on a farm in rural Alberta, and now live in northern BC. 
 
I don't have to be "all knowing" to know neither of those are geographically in Québec.     The alternative is you were/are lying.

[Gator]

You are right, I did miss it, as I did not bother to really read what Muzh wrote.

That seemingly would make you more Parisian than Canadian.   
 
Based on your brief descriptions of your small village, cows, etc., I presumed it was Quebec or nearby.   You did tell me once that it was not Moose Jaw or Swan Lake (been there).  Most people would never guess that I was born in Central Tennesse and did not have an indoor toilet (so I have been told as I don't remember the toilet part).

[Misha]

You have posted you grew up on a farm in rural Alberta, and now live in northern BC. 
 
I don't have to be "all knowing" to know neither of those are geographically in Québec.

Yes, I am a FRENCH-SPEAKER who grew up in Alberta and lived years in Québec. Je suis Québécois de langue et de cœur